Assisted Suicide

dexter_morgan

Just wondering how posters here would feel about legalizing assisted suicide. Maybe a service led by doctors available to anyone over 18? I don't like the idea one bit. It doesn't sit right with me.

Rubberchikken

I like the idea.
Overall i think it has its place if legislation is done properly.
Having said that, as successive governments could hardly organise a cat fight im not holding my breath on it ever coming into law in ireland.

Stonedpilot

dexter_morgan wrote: »

Just wondering how posters here would feel about legalizing assisted suicide. Maybe a service led by doctors available to anyone over 18? I don't like the idea one bit. It doesn't sit right with me.

Assisted suicide and abortion. Sur no need to live at all just hook us up to machines a la Matrix style and dispose of those bodies incapable of doing so.Wet dream of our unelected owners like the Rothschild family. Look at how many worship at the feet of "royals". World is nuts.

Too many "profane" as they say.

Zaph

I'm 100% in favour. The thoughts of being trapped in a useless body with a perfectly healthy mind due to something awful like motor neurone disease is the worst horror I could imagine. I'd want to be long gone before the disease got so bad that I couldn't do anything about it.

Riddle101

I'm in favor of Euthanasia. That is to say that i'm in favor of ending a person's life who is in pain or suffering, or wishes to die with dignity because they have some kind of illness or disease.

Working class heroes

Zaph wrote: »

I'm 100% in favour. The thoughts of being trapped in a useless body with a perfectly healthy mind due to something awful like motor neurone disease is the worst horror I could imagine. I'd want to be long gone before the disease got so bad that I couldn't do anything about it.

Sounds like prison.

CPTM

dexter_morgan wrote: »

Just wondering how posters here would feel about legalizing assisted suicide. Maybe a service led by doctors available to anyone over 18? I don't like the idea one bit. It doesn't sit right with me.

For me it's just like the referendum for terminating pregnancies or indeed the marriage equality referendum - If correctly researched and implemented, it will be life-changing for the tiny part of society that it directly affects, and the rest of society will get on with their days without paying it any attention.

But during the debate stages, there will definitely be people who will talk as if society will completely change on the back of the decision.

tuxy

I'm in favor of making it legal the only real problem is people who want to live but choose it because they think they are a burden.

Mellor

tuxy wrote: »

I'm in favor of making it legal the only real problem is people who want to live but choose it because they think they are a burden.

That's not remotely an issue.
Legalising assisted suicide doesn't mean suicide on demand.
It means the framework exists for a medical profession to assists a patient where they believe, in their professional opinion, that it is warranted based on a terminal condition.
There is little or no overlap with the 100s of people of commit suicide every year.

_Dara_

Terminally ill here and desperately want it legalised. It won't happen in time for me to avail of unfortunately but I really hope it happens some day.

The “sure, it’s easy to commit suicide” argument irks me so much. It’s not easy at all. Only the most violent methods are foolproof. I don’t want my loved ones to have to scrape my brains off a footpath. Overdoses usually don’t work and you can be left with lasting, painful damage. And even if one is successful, it’s usually drawn out and someone will likely get you to a hospital before it has a chance to succeed. The logistics are a nightmare.

Crucially, in countries where it’s legal, many people who procure the medication don’t use it. Just knowing that it’s there gives them peace of mind.

And finally, I owe nobody a painful death. I’ve already experienced excruciating pain and that’s not even the worst of it.

dexter_morgan

Thinking a bit more about it now but why would there be objections to assisted suicide on demand? Wouldnt it be better if a person who decides they want to end their life was able to enter a clinic and be euthanized? It would eliminate the chance of a botched painful suicide and save someone from discovering the body.

Stigura

dexter_morgan wrote: »

I don't like the idea one bit. It doesn't sit right with me.

Why not?



Not trying to be an AH smart arse. Just a genuine question.


If it isn't you being killed; Why would it bother you that someone else, who genuinely wants to be made dead, is getting their wish?

dexter_morgan

Stigura wrote: »

Why not?



Not trying to be an AH smart arse. Just a genuine question.


If it isn't you being killed; Why would it bother you that someone else, who genuinely wants to be made dead, is getting their wish?

I don't know. I wouldn't have any problem with a terminally ill person availing of assisted suicide but it wouldn't seem right to me that a healthy 18 year old could be euthanized as well! Should a person have a full mental capacity to make the decision?

RustyNut

Why should I not have the right to choose what I do with my body?

Stigura

dexter_morgan wrote: »

I wouldn't have any problem with a terminally ill person availing of assisted suicide but it wouldn't seem right to me that a healthy 18 year old could be euthanized as well! Should a person have a full mental capacity to make the decision?

As far as I'm aware ~ and I've not exactly tried to make any sort of in depth study of the subject ~ in places where it's legal, ye pretty much have to be in a position where two or three Doctors agree that, yeah; Sign the poor bastard out.

It's not like eighteen year old girls, with running mascara, can burst into a place at 02:30 of a saturday, pissed as newts and demanding to be killed, because .....

Regards mental health? I think that's pretty much a prerequisite; They won't do it if ye barking.

In honesty? I'd think there's probably a bit of difference in the 'average' suicide and the people who sign up for, and are granted, properly assisted death.


Sorry. I've been having browser troubles. I think I've just realised I've been leaving massive spaces between lines?

tuxy

Stigura wrote: »

Regards mental health? I think that's pretty much a prerequisite; They won't do it if ye barking.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/switzerland/5369613/Swiss-suicide-clinic-helped-depressed-man-die.html

Stigura

" Doctor Michael Irwin, of Friends at the End, which seeks to legalise assisted suicide, said: "I have helped terminally ill people to go to Dignitas individually and they've been grateful that it has been able to help them. But I would not recommend someone who is simply depressed to go – that's a dicey diagnosis. "

:eek: 'Dicey diagnosis' is a dinger of an understatement!

I was clinically depressed, thirty odd years ago. Scoffed every pill available. Genuinely intending to never wake up. Thank F*** I did! I've had Such times since

Does that (article) not raise the question though: Do we legalise NGO's to do the business? Or, do we leave our ~ end of ~ lives in the hands of the state?

Tokyo

I'm for it, in specific situations. If you're terminally ill and looking at months or years of physical and emotional hell, you should have the right to get out. You should also have the right to have someone help you so you don't accidentally live in even worse shape than you were in when you decided you wanted out.

In some ways we treat our pets better than we treat ourselves.

RacoonQueen

The laws around it would need to be very tight.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/10/australias-oldest-scientist-104-dies-flying-switzerland-end/

This is something I was thinking of last week as I had the old dog put to sleep as I thought, isn't it great that I can prevent her going through any real suffering.

Someone who is terminally ill, or like that old chap then yes. Absolutely.

I think in most place where it is legal, you have to be well enough to take the medication yourself?

kenmc

If there isn't a yes on Friday, I'd be all on for compulsory assisted suicide for many of the no spokespeople. Disgusting blotches on the fabric of humanity some of them, true colors shown on pat kenny debate last night

Tilikum17

My father passed away in November. He had vascular dementia. Day after day he would tell me he wanted to die, that he had enough of it.

No one should have the horrendous death my poor father had. It should be legalised.

I'm all for it. I watched three of my relatives fall apart from Alzheimer's and all of them would have preferred a quick ending. My grand-Aunt tried twice to kill herself and was stopped both times. For her 'health'. It's a horrible disease, and frankly, we should be allowing people the choice while they are lucid.

According to western medicine, I have an "increased" risk of Alzheimer's and PD, due to family history and also due to my 'Essential Tremor'. No way am I going down the same road as my relatives. First sign that I have it, I'm moving off to any country that allows assisted suicide..

No person should be forced to live that kind of life... simply because others values wish it.

Yep, all for it.
Done properly within the law.
Why not?

wexie

Fairly substantial thread on this here, with poll.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057864942

Personally I think it's completely bizarre we would need to even discuss it.
If we have an animal that is suffering and can't be helped letting them die painlessly is considered to be the humane thing to do...

Yet when it comes to humans we need to go with some archaic belief there is some beauty or honour in suffering?

Tell me how

kenmc wrote:

If there isn't a yes on Friday, I'd be all on for compulsory assisted suicide for many of the no spokespeople. Disgusting blotches on the fabric of humanity some of them, true colors shown on pat kenny debate last night

Not enough threads on boards to discuss the 8th is there?

Tell me how

I can see the logic in support of it. Overall, I'd be in favour if it. Like another poster, my dog had irreparable kidney failure and it was such an ease to be able to hug them, give them their favorite food and let them go to sleep.

But genuinely don't know where it might end up. Conversation the last 4 months has been about "choice", so why shouldn't the same apply here? Why should a Dr have to sign off.

If it did exist, then it becomes very difficult in terms of a risk of someone being pressured in to agreeing that that is their wish.

I also agree with the view that we are already playing God in keeping people alive so this would be no different.

Checkmate19

I would be in favour of this for people who have diseases where they are only going to die in pain. Obviously it would have to be worked out but there are lots of people who die slow painful deaths and should be allowed to die with dignity. For people who say where clinically depressed i would no way be in favour as this can be cured. Only for illness's where there's no cure and the person is going to suffer a painful death. I don't think this will come in but it's a topic that should be given taught to.

minikin

kenmc wrote: »

If there isn't a yes on Friday, I'd be all on for compulsory assisted suicide for many of the no spokespeople. Disgusting blotches on the fabric of humanity some of them, true colors shown on pat kenny debate last night

You want people dead because of views they publicly express, if a democratic vote doesn’t go your way?
Hey... could this be your bit of perspective that I saw in the lost and found office?

To answer the original question: I would be 100% in favour of assisted suicide for adults (even if they’re completely healthy) so long as it can be demonstrated that the person is compos mentis.
Have a relation who recently made that choice in Canada - felt it was an extremely dignified end to the life of an extraordinary lady. She did it peacefully on her terms, after a battle with cancer that she was not going to win.

Tell me how

minikin wrote:

Have a relation who recently made that choice in Canada - felt it was an extremely dignified end to the life of an extraordinary lady. She did it peacefully on her terms.

This I agree with. It sounds a lovely way to go. But, I'd be concerned that many might be "convinced" that that is their wish.

There's also another concern I'd have. Generally speaking, society believes in the sanctity of human life, it's why we react to cases of murder, epidemics, war and so on.

If we become comfortable with the idea that we don't need to preserve it as much as we can, will we (as a society) end up caring even less about those who struggle when they should be safe.

Very far reaching hypothesis but just wondering.

Mrs OBumble

Mellor wrote: »

That's not remotely an issue.
Legalising assisted suicide doesn't mean suicide on demand.
It means the framework exists for a medical profession to assists a patient where they believe, in their professional opinion, that it is warranted based on a terminal condition.
There is little or no overlap with the 100s of people of commit suicide every year.

It's absolutely an issue.

Greedy grasping kids who want to inherit have an even greater incentive to make their aging parents feel like a burden, so the the parent decides to ask to be killed.

minikin

Tell me how wrote: »

This I agree with. It sounds a lovely way to go. But, I'd be concerned that many might be "convinced" that that is their wish.

There's also another concern I'd have. Generally speaking, society believes in the sanctity of human life, it's why we react to cases of murder, epidemics, war and so on.

If we become comfortable with the idea that we don't need to preserve it as much as we can, will we (as a society) end up caring even less about those who struggle when they should be safe.

Very far reaching hypothesis but just wondering.

I no longer believe that society generally believes in the sanctity of human life. Look at the referendum... (I’m coming from a pro-life perspective in that) but deaths from murder, epidemics and war are not self-inflicted. I believe the decision to end your own life should be in the hands of a human adult, we have free will.

I would rather see someone who is suicidal being assisted to die peacefully - surrounded by loved ones, and potentially giving life to those who wish to live through organ donation, rather than stepping in front of a train - traumatising everyone involved.

Tokyo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's absolutely an issue.

Greedy grasping kids who want to inherit have an even greater incentive to make their aging parents feel like a burden, so the the parent decides to ask to be killed.

What a bizarre interpretation.

Even if we do take your scenario as fact, if a person is able to push another into suicide, whether it's legal or not would probably be the least of their concerns.

Back in the real world, I'd imagine with assisted suicide, there would be some form of psychological evaluation first. "The young lad want's me to do it so he can get the farm" is not likely to meet the required criteria.

Tell me how

minikin wrote:

I would rather see someone who is suicidal being assisted, and potentially giving life to those who wish to live through organ donation, rather than stepping in front of a train - traumatising everyone involved.

I was suicidal in the past. And was an adult. And told Dr's I didn't want to be here.

Thankfully that's a few years ago but I still remember that feeling, how absolutely real it was. Now, I get pleasure in things that I could see or participate in then but not comprehend fully or enjoy.

Mutant z

People should be allowed to decide for themselves whether to end their own lives i know i would want that option for myself.

minikin

Tell me how wrote: »

I was suicidal in the past. And was an adult. And told Dr's I didn't want to be here.

Thankfully that's a few years ago but I still remember that feeling, how absolutely real it was. Now, I get pleasure in things that I could see or participate in then but not comprehend fully or enjoy.

Genuinely delighted for you that this worked out, but if it had been the case that doctors / psychologists / philosophy brought you no comfort and you were in mental pain then I would understand an alternative decision. I don’t want anyone suffering. A life without joy is a prison sentence without parole.

Again - I don’t like the idea of anyone being forced to live or forced to die.

punisher5112

Tell me how wrote: »

I was suicidal in the past. And was an adult. And told Dr's I didn't want to be here.

Thankfully that's a few years ago but I still remember that feeling, how absolutely real it was. Now, I get pleasure in things that I could see or participate in then but not comprehend fully or enjoy.

That's great you got through but assisted passing as I would call it wouldn't be there for the reasons you say.

It could be in place where a panel of no less then 3 doctors and that the person has some serious condition such as motor neuron disease etc.

Horrible horrible way for someone to go and lose all their dignity.

People in such circumstances should have a choice and they would have a very good reason for wanting to.

Such a sad way to go.

I really feel for those that have to go through such torture.

ELM327

Working class heroes wrote: »

Sounds like prison.

Gordon, is that you?

Irish Guitarist

Not 'anyone over 18', no. Someone suffering from depression shouldn't just be able to get a lethal injection in a hospital. But if someone is in absolute physical agony and can't do anything to stop their pain I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to get help to put an end to it.

There's a comment comparing it to abortion. No, they're two completely different things considering one is about ending the life of someone who has no say in the matter and the other is about giving people in excruciating pain the legal right to end their own life.

Silane

I'd be for assisted suicide in all situations, not just in the case of terminal illness, if somebody doesn't want to be alive anymore who are we to force them? It's their life to do as they please with. Assisted suicide would reduce the burden on emergency services, and prevent family members coming across a traumatising scene.

minikin

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Not 'anyone over 18', no. Someone suffering from depression shouldn't just be able to get a lethal injection in a hospital. But if someone is in absolute physical agony and can't do anything to stop their pain I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to get help to put an end to it.

Is psychological pain not as bad as physiological pain?

I would argue it is worse in some instances and can have a worse outcome for those around the sufferer.

Look at the cases where people have killed their partner or kids before taking their own life... wouldn’t it have been better if they had been allowed to end their own lives and their pain peacefully without taking others with them?

Wanderer78

minikin wrote:

Is psychological pain not as bad as physiological pain? I would argue it is worse in some instances and can have a worse income for those around the sufferer. Look at the cases where people have killed their partner or kids before taking their own life... wouldn’t it have been better if they had been allowed to end their own lives and their pain peacefully without taking others with them?

I would agree, and can confirm, it indeed can be far worse than physical pain. We need to truly start discussing assisted suicide, and possibly allowing it in our country for these reasons

super_furry

For people who have a terminal illness that's going to rob them of their facilities and abilities to continue to function as they want to, I can't see any reason against it.

Ursus Horribilis

Definitely. I've had to watch someone I loved fall apart and die horribly and slowly over several weeks. Even with help from palliative care there was pain and suffering. All we could do was stand by helplessly. Nobody bats an eyelid when an animal is euthanized but humans are denied that.

I wonder how many people commit suicide before their debilitating illness fully takes hold? Once you get to a stage where you're helpless, you're relying on other people to help you get to that Swiss clinic. Then it's in the lap of the gods whether they're going to help it if they'll be stopped.

wexie

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I would agree, and can confirm, it indeed can be far worse than physical pain.

I think the big difference here is that everybody will have some experience with physical pain and can have a reasonable understanding of it and therefor sympathy of it.

Psychological pain is an entirely different beast. It's difficult to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it and I'd imagine pretty much impossible to comprehend.

Irish Guitarist

minikin wrote: »

Is psychological pain not as bad as physiological pain?
I would argue it is worse in some instances and can have a worse income for those around the sufferer. Look at the cases where people have killed their partner or kids before taking their own life... wouldn’t it have been better if they had been allowed to end their own lives and their pain peacefully without taking others with them?

Someone with a terminal illness nearing the end of their life might not have the physical strength to do anything to put an end to their suffering. That's why they would need assistance. Also psychological pain may well come to and end but an incurable physical illness isn't. And how many doctors are going to volunteer to kill healthy people?

I don't really see what killing your family has to do with euthanasia. It's not like killing your wife and kids is an integral part of suicide. If someones mind is that sick that they want to murder their family I don't see how having euthanasia as an option is going to stop them.

Sin City

As was said by previous posters it should be legalized

If anyone who is compus mentus wants to do it they should be allowed

If their bodies are shutting down and the quality of life reduces they should be allowed

We are forcing people to live in a prison of their own bodies to make ourselves feel better

Kiith

Definitely in favour of it. If i was terminally ill, i don't want to have to hang around in pain for months on end, and i sure as hell don't want my family to have to go through that. If it was an option, i'd absolutely do it.

Ursus Horribilis

We also should have living wills so that people's wishes are respected. A friend has an aunt who took a turn and who the doctors wanted to let die. Her daughter refused to listen and insisted she be resuscitated. The poor woman spent a couple of years, possibly with locked in syndrome. She never came home from hospital and needed constant care. How is that good for anyone?

eviltwin

If I ever become terminally ill I want to die on my own terms. I'd support making provision for those who want to do the same.

Wanderer78

Irish Guitarist wrote:

I don't really see what killing your family has to do with euthanasia. It's not like killing your wife and kids is an integral part of suicide. If someones mind is that sick that they want to murder their family I don't see how having euthanasia as an option is going to stop them.

Strange logic there, the psychologically ill mind is a strange place, it enters a state I can only describe as 'anti-logic', but I suspect only those that have experienced this state, as others have mentioned, truly understand it. It's a scary place

Your Face

Legalise everything!