Ireland to pay over €3bn per year to the EU

Riskymove

it is a joke that the article linked to does not mention the actual net contribution figure


in 2014 Ireland contributed around €1.69bn to the EU Budget, and received €1.52bn in return.

Therefore it cost 0.17bn


from 1973 when Ireland joined the EU to 2016, Irleand received over €50bn

we have some way to go to pay anything like that in return and a significant part of the reason we are net contributors now is down to the EU investment in our Country for 40 years

Capt'n Midnight

everlast75 wrote: »

Should we get that printed up on the side of a big red bus?

Might want to make that a big green bus.

The UK will save £8 Bn a year in nett contributions.
But the extra customs paperwork alone will cost about £20 Bn, not even joking.

Victor

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

"Net contributor" may sound nice and it is because it gives clout.

While we are net contributors, a lot of the money is still spent here.

pleas advice

Riskymove wrote: »

it is a joke that the article linked to does not mention the actual net contribution figure


in 2014 Ireland contributed around €1.69bn to the EU Budget, and received €1.52bn in return.

Therefore it cost 0.17bn


from 1973 when Ireland joined the EU to 2016, Irleand received over €50bn

we have some way to go to pay anything like that in return and a significant part of the reason we are net contributors now is down to the EU investment in our Country for 40 years

Something something banks something bailout something Germans...

We all partied.

malinheader

wes wrote: »

We have received funds for years. Only fair, that now we are in the position to contribute that we should do so.

Ireland has benefited greatly from EU membership, and as we can see via the absolute chaos (due to the utter incompetence and stupidity of Brexiters) that is Brexit in the UK, we are far better in than

When you say we recieved funds now it's only fair to contribute back, Don't forget on joining the EU the other members got access to some of the richest fishing grounds in the world. We have contributed more than most.

fash

I think it is fair to question what is the value of the artificially inflated GDP through US IT companies which results in higher contributions to the EU - are the resultant lower financing costs really good enough to offset this effect?

Phoebas

fash wrote: »

I think it is fair to question what is the value of the artificially inflated GDP through US IT companies which results in higher contributions to the EU - are the resultant lower financing costs really good enough to offset this effect?

Ireland's contributions are based on GNI per capita (which excludes Multinational's profit flows), not GDP.

Akrasia

We could use the 13 billion euros the EU are making apple pay us, to pay our EU contributions for years

Also, our 'Net' contribution is a lot less than 3bn, That figure doesn't include any of the money paid into our economy by EU grants and subsidies.

weldoninhio

Riskymove wrote: »

it is a joke that the article linked to does not mention the actual net contribution figure


in 2014 Ireland contributed around €1.69bn to the EU Budget, and received €1.52bn in return.

Therefore it cost 0.17bn


from 1973 when Ireland joined the EU to 2016, Irleand received over €50bn

we have some way to go to pay anything like that in return and a significant part of the reason we are net contributors now is down to the EU investment in our Country for 40 years

How much have we given up via our fisheries etc??

weldoninhio

Akrasia wrote: »

We could use the 13 billion euros the EU are making apple pay us, to pay our EU contributions for years

Also, our 'Net' contribution is a lot less than 3bn, That figure doesn't include any of the money paid into our economy by EU grants and subsidies.

I don't think the EU would let us use other EU countries money to pay our contributions. Apple owe Ireland nothing, Apple owe other EU countries billions, the EU decided to make Ireland the EU's Zacchaus and collect all the money for the other countries.

LeBash

Should we not be using that 3 billion to pay off a little bit of the Godzillion we owe? Surely everyone at the table in the EU would understand even if they don't agree

Riskymove

weldoninhio wrote: »

How much have we given up via our fisheries etc??

how much have other industries gained from free trade across EU and international trade deals?

what have farmers gained from subsidies for 40 years?

How much employment and industry attracted here after infrastructural investments?

what would our employment laws or our environment be like wthout EU laws?

Peregrinus

LeBash wrote: »

Should we not be using that 3 billion to pay off a little bit of the Godzillion we owe? Surely everyone at the table in the EU would understand even if they don't agree

I'm sure the Revenue Commissioners would understand if I choose to pay my mortgage rather than remit VAT receipts, but they wouldn't agree, which is probably the salient point.

weldoninhio

Riskymove wrote: »

how much have other industries gained from free trade across EU and international trade deals?

what have farmers gained from subsidies for 40 years?

How much employment and industry attracted here after infrastructural investments?

what would our employment laws or our environment be like wthout EU laws?

50bn according to a poster above. I'm sure we would have followed EU/European law with or without being in the EU, although we may still have curved bananas which would be a travesty. I mean look at the chaos in Norway.

I'm not sure many on here understand how much our waters have been decimated by EU supertrawlers, over 50bn+ worth of fish gone, and thats not counting discarding laws. WWF estimates that 20-40% of our fish have been discarded!!

Deiseen

weldoninhio wrote: »

Riskymove wrote: »

how much have other industries gained from free trade across EU and international trade deals?

what have farmers gained from subsidies for 40 years?

How much employment and industry attracted here after infrastructural investments?

what would our employment laws or our environment be like wthout EU laws?

50bn according to a poster above. I'm sure we would have followed EU/European law with or without being in the EU, although we may still have curved bananas which would be a travesty. I mean look at the chaos in Norway.

I'm not sure many on here understand how much our waters have been decimated by EU supertrawlers, over 50bn+ worth of fish gone, and thats not counting discarding laws. WWF estimates that 20-40% of our fish have been discarded!!

Fishing treaties exist outside of EU anyway. The one fact that no one ever mentions is that we are also allowed fish off the coast of other countries. Its not all give and no take.

RobertKK

We were the poorest country in the EEC when we joined, 45 years later we are one of the richest countries on the planet.
The EEC/EC/EU has been an overwhelming success story for our country and for Europe.
I look at the EU as we are all citizens of it if we are from a member state, and it is in our interest that as a collective the whole European Union benefits, so the rich nations help the poorer nations, and hopefully more countries that are poorer become much better off and their citizens benefit like we have done...and they eventually become net contributors too.

diggerdigger

Ireland's contributions are based on GNI per capita (which excludes Multinational's profit flows), not GDP.

In 2014, Irelands *GNI* increased 25% (source world bank).  GNI is not a magical measure, is most definitely skewed by multinational structuring assets to reside in the state, and does not mean a cent more tax, and does lead to higher EU contributions. 

I'm certainly not questioning whether we should pay to EU, but more the value of multinationals to this state.

weldoninhio

Deiseen wrote: »

Fishing treaties exist outside of EU anyway. The one fact that no one ever mentions is that we are also allowed fish off the coast of other countries. Its not all give and no take.

Why do you think Spanish super trawlers etc fish off Ireland?? You think they get bored of the view around the coast of Spain??

malinheader

Deiseen wrote: »

Fishing treaties exist outside of EU anyway. The one fact that no one ever mentions is that we are also allowed fish off the coast of other countries. Its not all give and no take.

As i said before. Ireland had the richest fishing grounds of all the EU. Plus when we joined the EU we hadn't the boats to exploit other countries resources. Our fishing rights were gave away big time so no one should be saying it's time for us to start paying back. We're well in credit.

Capt'n Midnight

weldoninhio wrote: »

50bn according to a poster above. I'm sure we would have followed EU/European law with or without being in the EU, although we may still have curved bananas which would be a travesty. I mean look at the chaos in Norway.

We used to be the biggest exporter of bananas in Europe.

So of you may have figured out that we don't grow them here, and the answer is of course that we manufactured them.

For tax reasons.

see Charles McCann Ltd v S. O’Cualachain, Inspector of Taxes, (1998) IR 196

Oddly enough Fyffes UK base may soon be outside the EU so they might even return the banana producing business back here

I'm not sure many on here understand how much our waters have been decimated by EU supertrawlers, over 50bn+ worth of fish gone, and thats not counting discarding laws. WWF estimates that 20-40% of our fish have been discarded!!

Look to the UK. There are claims that Brexit will mean £32 million more to fisheries.

The truth is that if they implemented the existing rules and forced the largest 16 "UK" boats to land half their catch in the UK they'd be over £200m better off and have another 2,700 jobs. They also renewed the licenses of trawleres caught breaking the rules. The UK has also folded over future fisheries by saying they'll allow the six countries that have treaties to keep fishing in UK waters.

Anyone who thinks the little guys will be treated better outside of the EU needs to be reminded that at one point a Dutch supertrawler held 23% of the UK quota compared to the entire inshore fleet which held just 4%.


A lot of trawler crews are foreign too, there isn't a lot of money in fishing for the little guy and it's diminishing returns because today's technology means you need fewer boats and fewer crew to harvest the same amount of fish, assuming there are fish there to be harvested.

Madagascan

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

€3bn is a lot of money for a country the size of Ireland.


We will be funding motorways in Poland.

You forget that the EU helped fund Irelands Motorways.

jimmycrackcorm

weldoninhio wrote:

I'm not sure many on here understand how much our waters have been decimated by EU supertrawlers, over 50bn+ worth of fish gone, and thats not counting discarding laws. WWF estimates that 20-40% of our fish have been discarded!!

Not to worry, haven't we also got billions in oil and gas reserves in the sea also.

Only a small fraction of the workforce worked and benefited in fisheries, do it wasn't anywhere near the contributor as our EU membership. I don't know of any motorways that were part funded by the fishermen.

malinheader

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Not to worry, haven't we also got billions in oil and gas reserves in the sea also.

Only a small fraction of the workforce worked and benefited in fisheries, do it wasn't anywhere near the contributor as our EU membership. I don't know of any motorways that were part funded by the fishermen.

I wouldn't use oil as an example. Sure did we not give that away for nothing. RTE ran a great show last year called Atlantic worth a watching to see what really went on.

zapitastas

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

We used to be the biggest exporter of bananas in Europe.

So of you may have figured out that we don't grow them here, and the answer is of course that we manufactured them.

For tax reasons.

see Charles McCann Ltd v S. O’Cualachain, Inspector of Taxes, (1998) IR 196

Oddly enough Fyffes UK base may soon be outside the EU so they might even return the banana producing business back here


Look to the UK. There are claims that Brexit will mean £32 million more to fisheries.

The truth is that if they implemented the existing rules and forced the largest 16 "UK" boats to land half their catch in the UK they'd be over £200m better off and have another 2,700 jobs. They also renewed the licenses of trawleres caught breaking the rules. The UK has also folded over future fisheries by saying they'll allow the six countries that have treaties to keep fishing in UK waters.

Anyone who thinks the little guys will be treated better outside of the EU needs to be reminded that at one point a Dutch supertrawler held 23% of the UK quota compared to the entire inshore fleet which held just 4%.


A lot of trawler crews are foreign too, there isn't a lot of money in fishing for the little guy and it's diminishing returns because today's technology means you need fewer boats and fewer crew to harvest the same amount of fish, assuming there are fish there to be harvested.

As well as that you have more and more research on toxicity levels in fish starting to emerge. The market could recede significantly

Capt'n Midnight

zapitastas wrote: »

As well as that you have more and more research on toxicity levels in fish starting to emerge. The market could recede significantly

LOL

fish isn't getting cheaper , supply and demand


The other side of the coin is that habitats that are toxic are harmful to animals, but less harmful than humans. Look at the wildlife in places that were used as toxic waste dumps or radioactive spills.

gw80

Deiseen wrote: »

Fishing treaties exist outside of EU anyway. The one fact that no one ever mentions is that we are also allowed fish off the coast of other countries. Its not all give and no take.

To be fair, if spain had the fish stocks we have in our waters, do you think irish super trawlers would be allowed to fish in their waters,
Spanish fishermen would be up in arms, literally, and rightfully so.
If the eu wanted to see ireland prosper why didn't they help to nurture the fishing industry in Ireland so we could sell to the rest of Europe, and maybe we could have built our own roads.
Do you think, if huge oil reserves were found under Germany that they would just hand it all over to the rest of Europe.

CrabRevolution

malinheader wrote: »

I wouldn't use oil as an example. Sure did we not give that away for nothing. RTE ran a great show last year called Atlantic worth a watching to see what really went on.

The current Irish oil industry consists of a few test wells and surveys. There have been 0 barrels of oil commercially pumped from Irish territory.



I've no idea where this " WE'RE GIVING OUR OIL AWAY FOR FREE!!!1!!" line comes from.

fly_agaric

weldoninhio wrote: »

50bn according to a poster above. I'm sure we would have followed EU/European law with or without being in the EU, although we may still have curved bananas which would be a travesty. I mean look at the chaos in Norway.

I'm not sure many on here understand how much our waters have been decimated by EU supertrawlers, over 50bn+ worth of fish gone, and thats not counting discarding laws. WWF estimates that 20-40% of our fish have been discarded!!

You're right that fishing could have been a good wealth generating industry for us but there is of course the question of our capability to develop and maintain a strong, competitive fishing industry all on our own, especially at that time.

It is not nice to put ones country down, but we don't seem to have a happy track record when it comes to such "big picture" strategic planning here and the country was also extremely poor when it joined the EEC.

Joining the EEC boosted our ability to plan and develop because not only were there funds for projects more available via structural funds, but these were strongly ringfenced from any corruption in our political system, rigourous tests of costs-vs-benefits were applied to the projects etc.

Just one aspect of what we would need if we were to trot after the Brits and Ire-exit tomorrow and live off the bountiful fish that the Spanish etc have eaten on us would be a creditable coast guard/navy to police our large territorial waters.

Even with the country being so much wealthier our coast guard/navy are still a bit of a joke & have limited abilities to police all these wonderful liberating fishing grounds.

CrabRevolution

CrabRevolution wrote: »

The current Irish oil industry consists of a few test wells and surveys. There have been 0 barrels of oil commercially pumped from Irish territory.



I've no idea where this " WE'RE GIVING OUR OIL AWAY FOR FREE!!!1!!" line comes from.

The oil thing is frustrating. The public wouldn't support billions spent with no return. Only some countries with easily accessible oil can do it at a state level.

wakka12

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