Information about over-subscription of Limerick secondary schools

osarusan

Hi all,


Getting closer to the dreaded process of selection of secondary school for my oldest, and the Common Application Form.


We are trying to find out information on what schools are regularly/always over-subscribed and which are not, but are struggling to do so.


Can anybody point me towards a source for that kind of information? Or is it all kept as private as possible?

banie01

osarusan wrote: »

Hi all,


Getting closer to the dreaded process of selection of secondary school for my oldest, and the Common Application Form.


We are trying to find out information on what schools are regularly/always over-subscribed and which are not, but are struggling to do so.


Can anybody point me towards a source for that kind of information? Or is it all kept as private as possible?

The CAS system carries some caveats that may be of help.
Certain primary schools carry a "right of entry" and other factors such as a parent previously attending the preferred school or living within the schools parish boundary also can confer a right of entry.

All the secondary schools in the CAS system have very clear enrolment policies and these can be reviewed on the individual school's websites.

The main advice I'd give is that if you have a right of entry to a particular school use it.
If you have no right of entry, the available places in the school are allocated 1st to those students who meet any right of entry requirements in the order outlined in the schools admissions policy.
The remaining places are then allocated on a lottery basis to students in the basis of their 1st preference.

osarusan

Yeah, I understand the system alright.

What I want to know is whether or not I can find somewhere a list of schools that routinely turn down applicants for whom the school was the first choice.

banie01

osarusan wrote: »

Yeah, I understand the system alright.

What I want to know is whether or not I can find somewhere a list of schools that routinely turn down applicants for whom the school was the first choice.

The schools don't routinely turn down students who list any particular school as a 1st choice. It's a matter of supply and demand.
Take Ard Scoil Ris as an example.
The usual intake of 1st years there is @125 students.
Of that total, @90 places in any given year are given to students with right of entry.
The remaining 35 would be allocated on a lottery basis between the students who made ASR their 1st choice.
If 200 pupils applied with ASR as 1st choice that pushes 65 back into the 2nd schools process.
All the unsuccessful students are then passed to their 2nd choice school.
This raises a problem because the majority of schools have included "1st choice of school" as one of their entry requirements.
So if students entering their lottery system are at the bottom of the preferred entry lists.

There isn't a database of oversubscribed secondary schools as the system is set up in such a way that the vast majority of applicants apply with 1st preference to a school they have right of entry to.

Anecdotally ASR, Crescent Comp and Colaiste Laurel Hill would be the schools that are oversubscribed in terms of being selected as 1st choice.
The remaining schools will usually confirm at Open nights that if you select them as 1st choice you will likely gain a place.

Hurling Rankings

This post has been deleted.

osarusan

Hurling Rankings wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeah, I think anecdotal evidence is as far as it goes alright, but it has still been useful so far.

Jane98

osarusan wrote: »

Hi all,


Getting closer to the dreaded process of selection of secondary school for my oldest, and the Common Application Form.


We are trying to find out information on what schools are regularly/always over-subscribed and which are not, but are struggling to do so.


Can anybody point me towards a source for that kind of information? Or is it all kept as private as possible?

Which schools are you considering?

osarusan

Jane98 wrote: »

Which schools are you considering?

We haven't even thought that far yet. Just trying to see how common not getting the first choice is.

We live in Corbally, so the closest school would be St Mary's.

I suppose the danger is that if we put somewhere else down as a first choice and we put that school down as a second choice, we might not get get it as a second choice, as all places are already filled by those who put it down as a first choice.

Jane98

osarusan wrote: »

We haven't even thought that far yet. Just trying to see how common not getting the first choice is.

We live in Corbally, so the closest school would be St Mary's.

I suppose the danger is that if we put somewhere else down as a first choice and we put that school down as a second choice, we might not get get it as a second choice, as all places are already filled by those who put it down as a first choice.

Ardscoil Mhuire (St. Marys) is a great school and has seen an increase in demand in the last few years since Brid Herbert was appointed as principal. If you want to go there you will need to put it down as your no. 1 but I believe that you will have a good chance of getting in there if you do. I hear demand was very strong this year and as a result they increased the no. of 1st year classes they would take in from 4 to 5. Good luck.

BobMc

Hows Everyone findind it this week with all the open nights taking place? Been to two this week, its tough going

topcat72

Was at the St mary's one and the Gaelcholaiste one - the presentation by st mary's was far better - involved more people and a student, in comparison with the Gaelcholaiste where only the principal spoke for 45 minutes. My guess is thhat if you want St mary's and put it down as choice 1, you will get it. Id run a mile from Ardscoil - esp if you live in Corbally - the advantage of being able to walk to school or study in leaving cert year is huge - rather than being car dependent to Ardscoil. Was not impressed at all with the tone of Laurel Hill school. Up themselves to the extreme, esp ehen other schools hae rapidly improved 3rd level entry ( 90% in Ardscoil Mhuire) 84% in Gaelcholaiste .
Obv, if you have sons and daughters , crescent or gaelcholaiste make more sense as they will take second child by right of entry

Jane98

topcat72 wrote: »

Was at the St mary's one and the Gaelcholaiste one - the presentation by st mary's was far better - involved more people and a student, in comparison with the Gaelcholaiste where only the principal spoke for 45 minutes. My guess is thhat if you want St mary's and put it down as choice 1, you will get it. Id run a mile from Ardscoil - esp if you live in Corbally - the advantage of being able to walk to school or study in leaving cert year is huge - rather than being car dependent to Ardscoil. Was not impressed at all with the tone of Laurel Hill school. Up themselves to the extreme, esp ehen other schools hae rapidly improved 3rd level entry ( 90% in Ardscoil Mhuire) 84% in Gaelcholaiste .
Obv, if you have sons and daughters , crescent or gaelcholaiste make more sense as they will take second child by right of entry

When you mention St. Marys do you mean Ardscoil Mhuire in Corbally and when you mention Ardscoil do you mean Ardscoil Ris?

BobMc

It's a daughter we have. Was at LH and ASM this week. Both had plus and minus points. We'll be discussing them all amongst us to make a decision have time on our side thankfully

topcat72

sorry, by St mary's I meant Ardscoil Mhuire , Corbally. Was impressed by them there, to be honest. unimpressed by Laurel Hill ( both the Colaiste and the regular. We will probably go with the Gaelcholaiste , but primarily because we have girl and boy to follow , so co-ed makes more sense in our situation.

Jane98

Anyone doing the rounds of the open nights at the moment?

Which schools have impressed you and which haven't?

Stab*City

I've done a couple for my son.. The main thing that stands out to me is the lack of IT. Very little mention of probably the biggest industry in the world at the moment. I asked and was told 'Oh yes we do use computers'.

colaiste

Stab*City wrote: »

I've done a couple for my son.. The main thing that stands out to me is the lack of IT. Very little mention of probably the biggest industry in the world at the moment. I asked and was told 'Oh yes we do use computers'.

Coláiste Chiaráin are doing the new Computer Science Leaving Cert course and coding short course at Junior Cert.

Avatar MIA

topcat72 wrote: »

Was at the St mary's one and the Gaelcholaiste one - the presentation by st mary's was far better - involved more people and a student, in comparison with the Gaelcholaiste where only the principal spoke for 45 minutes.

He does have a tendency to talk alright, but a very capable principal. The new school will be complete in a couple of years, so your child will see it. The current school is a little claustrophobic. However, it's a very good school and caters for very strong students but also works well for those that need to put in the work to achieve their potential. Anecdotal - I imagine it's oversubscribed.

osarusan

I presume I am right in my understanding that even though any school you visit will give you an application form, we only complete one form, and submit that to our first choice school?

Who will then either accept the application, or, if unsuccessful, pass it on to the second school on the list?

Osk

Yes osarusan.

However, if you are unsuccessful with your first preference it is unlikely you will get your 2nd or 3rd preference to the best of my knowledge. It tends to drop down to 6th/7th preference. Most schools won’t take you if you don’t put them as #1. That’s the conundrum you face when completing the form...

frankston

osarusan wrote: »

I presume I am right in my understanding that even though any school you visit will give you an application form, we only complete one form, and submit that to our first choice school?

Who will then either accept the application, or, if unsuccessful, pass it on to the second school on the list?

It is my understanding that

If you are unsuccessful your application is not passed to your second choice it is passed to a central processing house, any school who have not received enough application then inform this central processing unit of the number of places they have available and the students are then distributed accordingly

Thus once a school has less places than first preference application it will never see any
other applications forms . So if you put a school that fills up on 1st preferences as number 2 they will never see your application.

stuckintipp

Osk wrote: »

Yes osarusan.

However, if you are unsuccessful with your first preference it is unlikely you will get your 2nd or 3rd preference to the best of my knowledge. It tends to drop down to 6th/7th preference. Most schools won’t take you if you don’t put them as #1. That’s the conundrum you face when completing the form...

Id Imagine the following schools will all be full on R1;
Laurel Hill
Crescent
Castletroy
St Munchins
Ard Scoil

Not so sure on GCL and St Marys, but if not full almost full.

If you want to send your child to any of the 5 listed at the start you should have them as R1, having them as R2 is a waste and and will hinder your child getting into the almost full schools as they will give priority to schools that put them 2nd before a school that puts them 7th.

Jane98

stuckintipp wrote: »

Id Imagine the following schools will all be full on R1;
Laurel Hill
Crescent
Castletroy
St Munchins
Ard Scoil

Not so sure on GCL and St Marys, but if not full almost full.

If you want to send your child to any of the 5 listed at the start you should have them as R1, having them as R2 is a waste and and will hinder your child getting into the almost full schools as they will give priority to schools that put them 2nd before a school that puts them 7th.

I'd add Mungret CC to that list too.

BobMc

To be fair, if you read the policies given for any individual school most will be straight enough with their entrance policy.

If you dont fit into on of the top 5 to 6 entrance policies, you're wasting your time applying,

I can recall attending Munchins for our son few years back, and the admissions policy was explicitly explained and at what point they are full. If you fell outside those policies, its written between the lines not to apply,

Its a game and your expected to know the rules and play them

thesimpsons

stuckintipp wrote: »

Id Imagine the following schools will all be full on R1;
Laurel Hill
Crescent
Castletroy
St Munchins
Ard Scoil

Not so sure on GCL and St Marys, but if not full almost full.

.

add Laurel Hill Colaiste to the list too

stuckintipp

thesimpsons wrote: »

add Laurel Hill Colaiste to the list too

Correct, meant both LH's but was too lazy to write.

I heard that Mungret had increased their intake so its possible they wont be oversubscribed during this application period (But they may)

osarusan

Yes thanks all, that's what I thought.

Osk

BobMc wrote: »

To be fair, if you read the policies given for any individual school most will be straight enough with their entrance policy.

If you dont fit into on of the top 5 to 6 entrance policies, you're wasting your time applying,

Yes and no. We didn’t fit into any of the entrance policies for Ard Scoil and Laurel
Hill and risked putting both down as #1 and were successful both times.

We completed the forms in detail with a separate letter giving more information on our child, included reference letters and met the principals.

It was a risk but we were successful.

Good luck - it’s a very stressful system.

Kenny B

Every school stressed the importance of ticking the GDPR box, if it is not ticked and you don't get 1st choice, they can't pass your application on the next port of call.

stuckintipp

Osk wrote: »

Yes and no. We didn’t fit into any of the entrance policies for Ard Scoil and Laurel
Hill and risked putting both down as #1 and were successful both times.

We completed the forms in detail with a separate letter giving more information on our child, included reference letters and met the principals.

Am i correct in saying that Ard Scoil do not really operate a tiered entrance system?

Many schools give priority to Primary schools in the vicinity or children that live locally but i think Ard scoil do not do that.

This may help explain how you may have gotten in if not from the area, especially if you met the principal, submitted letters of reference (is this allowed).

Osk

stuckintipp wrote: »

Am i correct in saying that Ard Scoil do not really operate a tiered entrance system?

Many schools give priority to Primary schools in the vicinity or children that live locally but i think Ard scoil do not do that.

This may help explain how you may have gotten in if not from the area, especially if you met the principal, submitted letters of reference (is this allowed).

I don't know the specifics of Ard Scoil - I just knew we didn't meet any of the entry criteria.

Reference letters are not encouraged - if they are allowed I don't know. We included them with the forms and they weren't returned to us...they might have been dumped or completely ignored but who knows?!