Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

Shurimgreat

Billy86 wrote: »

They were actually responding to my post, here is the full and comprehensive list of all countries with abortion laws most comparable to ours:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.

You can try and argue that impoverished or backwards countries have more freedom of abortion, but you'll need to include the likes of the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea, essentially all of Europe, etc etc in there as well.

This topic is going nowhere. Rich countries have abortion. Poor countries have abortion. Impoverished miserable ****holes have abortion. Some impoverished miserable ****holes have no abortion because they don't have enough doctors and even if they had the poor people cant afford or have access to them.

Irrelevant topic of the year to go with the other irrelevant post from another poster.

martingriff

RacoonQueen wrote: »

There were never any 'winners' in this. What a woman or a couple must go through to come to the decision to seek an abortion is unimaginable. May this landslide result help the women who still have to travel each week until it all comes together, have easier journeys than those who went before them, knowing they are some of the last.

I think both the bad losers and gloaters should read this

woejus

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This topic is going nowhere. Rich countries have abortion. Poor countries have abortion. Impoverished miserable ****holes have abortion. Some impoverished miserable ****holes have no abortion because they don't have enough doctors and even if they had the poor people cant afford or have access to them.

Irrelevant topic of the year to go with the other irrelevant post from another poster.

“This topic is going nowhere”... yet here you still are. You lost. You get nothing. Good day, sir.

January

There are definitely winners in this. Yes, the decision to have an abortion is a sad one and it's not one taken lightly but the winners are the women who can now make this decision on their own shores without having to find themselves in debt or shamed by their country.

All the no side are going to have a good laugh with this now but tbh, I really don't give a flying fiddlers.

Yesterday and today have been surreal, the exit poll last night was the first indication that Ireland actually was being pulled out of the dark ages and today has just confirmed it. I was afraid it would be so close, like divorce referendum close so when I saw the initial results last night I was afraid to hope, but when the boxes started being opened this morning it was amazing. Box after box after box coming out more than 50% yes, more than 60% yes... one box in my constituency had 91% in favour of repeal.

Now we just have to make sure they pass this legislation. Still lots of work to do. This is not the end but it's a great start!

Shurimgreat

woejus wrote: »

So salty... your tone of bitter disappointment is such a joy to read.

Not salty at all. I was actually laughing at her post. It was funny in a way.
Any more lies?

woejus

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Not salty at all. I was actually laughing at her post.
Any more lies?

Where did I lie? You’ve been thoroughly defeated on this thread, in your arguments, and in the ballot. You are on the wrong side of history and you cannot hide your bitter disappointment.

martingriff

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

No I don't but at least they won't have to slink off. They can go to their gps and probably get information and options.

Last week they caught a plane with no back up medical treatment. No if they feel they have to catch a plane, their gp will be able to provide back up medical treatment with no problems.

Thats what I meant. Now they can discuss options with their gps and get treatment and information from them.

Could allways do this since the referendums after the X case

Deusexmachina

January wrote: »

There are definitely winners in this. Yes, the decision to have an abortion is a sad one and it's not one taken lightly but the winners are the women who can now make this decision on their own shores without having to find themselves in debt or shamed by their country.

All the no side are going to have a good laugh with this now but tbh, I really don't give a flying fiddlers.

Yesterday and today have been surreal, the exit poll last night was the first indication that Ireland actually was being pulled out of the dark ages and today has just confirmed it. I was afraid it would be so close, like divorce referendum close so when I saw the initial results last night I was afraid to hope, but when the boxes started being opened this morning it was amazing. Box after box after box coming out more than 50% yes, more than 60% yes... one box in my constituency had 91% in favour of repeal.

Now we just have to make sure they pass this legislation. Still lots of work to do. This is not the end but it's a great start!

I suspect the costs here will still make England an option for many!

Billy86

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This topic is going nowhere. Rich countries have abortion. Poor countries have abortion. Impoverished miserable ****holes have abortion. Some impoverished miserable ****holes have no abortion because they don't have enough doctors and even if they had the poor people cant afford or have access to them.

No, sorry, you're trying to muddy the waters again. Once more, this is the full and comprehensive list of countries that have abortion laws most in line with our own at present. Not a cherry picked few, this is the full and comprehensive list of all of them. You can cling to microstates Andorra and San Marino if it makes you feel better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.

Irrelevant topic of the year to go with the other irrelevant post from another poster.

It's not irrelevant, as it came about from this discussion and was in direct response to a 'No' poster claiming abortion is not 'civilised'. If it were irrelevant, you would not have jumped into the conversation as you did. The fact is the argument just doesn't work in your favour here.

Shurimgreat

woejus wrote: »

“This topic is going nowhere”... yet here you still are. You lost. You get nothing. Good day, sir.

The topic re abortion in poor countries versus rich was going nowhere not the thread in general.
Any more lies?

Jim Bob Scratcher

Looking like Donegal voted no

martingriff

Mr.S wrote: »

They can give all the information and options to a women they want until the cows come home, but to get an abortion, women will still need to travel abroad or order 'illegal' pills off the internet, so things will continue the same until legalisation has passed and the logistics are setup, which is ~12 months away.

At least the women who have to travel, know that change is coming for the people following them.

Doctors will be more sympathetic, sure, but nothing else changes, for now.

I say January at the most

January

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I suspect the costs here will still make England an option for many!

Doubt it. GP led service, medical card and drugs payment scheme will be used.

Taytoland

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Looking like Donegal voted no

Closest county culturally linked to NI votes no, what a surprise. :ninja:

woejus

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The topic re abortion in poor countries versus rich was going nowhere not the thread in general.
Any more lies?

It's quite telling that you don't know a lie when you see it, or in this case, don't see it.

erica74

January wrote: »

There are definitely winners in this. Yes, the decision to have an abortion is a sad one and it's not one taken lightly but the winners are the women who can now make this decision on their own shores without having to find themselves in debt or shamed by their country.

All the no side are going to have a good laugh with this now but tbh, I really don't give a flying fiddlers.

Yesterday and today have been surreal, the exit poll last night was the first indication that Ireland actually was being pulled out of the dark ages and today has just confirmed it. I was afraid it would be so close, like divorce referendum close so when I saw the initial results last night I was afraid to hope, but when the boxes started being opened this morning it was amazing. Box after box after box coming out more than 50% yes, more than 60% yes... one box in my constituency had 91% in favour of repeal.

Now we just have to make sure they pass this legislation. Still lots of work to do. This is not the end but it's a great start!

I completely agree.

iguana

January wrote: »

Doubt it. GP led service, medical card and drugs payment scheme will be used.

And treatment for FFAs or threats to the woman's health and life will almost certainly be provided as part of free maternity service.


And WTF is taking so long in the last 3 constituencies!!!!!!!!

Billy86

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Thats one way of describing them. The other is as vote chasing populists who will tell the Yes voter in Caherciveen they now support the Yes side and the No voter in Kilorglin they were No all along.

They can tell those two people what they want, it's their actions that will matter now that the referendum is dead, buried, and was decisively lost by the no side. Including in their own constituencies.

Sheeps

How many women die every year from pregnancy complications in Ireland?

Deusexmachina

January wrote: »

Doubt it. GP led service, medical card and drugs payment scheme will be used.

Maybe. Its primarily elective surgery though. And even if it is valid, most people dont have a medical card.

Billy86

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Venezuela has abortion freely available. Remind us what state they are in?

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I think I'd rather live in San Marino than Venezuela. I'm sure you'd feel the same way

Also to point out, this is a lie. Venezuela was in the list you have been provided on multiple occasions as having comparable abortion laws to ours and is on the list I have posted!

Illegal abortion is killing horrifying numbers of women in Venezuela

In Venezuela, where ideology is still largely controlled by the Catholic Church, it is illegal to terminate a pregnancy unless the mother’s life is at risk or in the case of foetal impairment. It means that abortion is that second highest killer of women aged 12 to 49 in the country, according to online publication Latin America Bureau, and the cause of 16 per cent of all maternal deaths.

Fighting Tao

I'm sure this discussion is going on in a number of places right now :pac:

Trasna1

The referendum is over, can we stop the campaigning please.

martingriff

Well this is going to be my last post in anything to do with this referendum as I totally sick of it. It has only got worse then the results are in. For those who are bitter ye lost all I can say is though s$%t it is over we will have it when the law passes. You can still carry on with your lifes as normal. As for the gloaters ye are just as worse congrats ye won should look @ RacoonQueens last post. People (the majority) who will be going for abortion as they have no other choice and will have suffered a terrible ordeal so how about you think of them and tone down the f$*^ing rhetoric and bile from your posts

tigger123

Fianna Fail TD on Rte1 just a moment ago who said the Love Both is staffed by old veterans of the game who've been around for 40 odd years. They tried to pick off TDs one by one to turn them to support the No side.

She said the pressure was immense to back a No vote.

January

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Maybe. Its primarily elective surgery though. And even if it is valid, most people dont have a medical card.

It's not surgery... it's a doctor writing a prescription and even if most people don't have a medical card then it will cost them 50 euro GP visit and at most 144 euro for the prescription on the Drugs Payment Scheme, much less than what it would cost them to go to the UK.

After 12 weeks, you're talking about for health of the mother of for FFA, which will be done in a hospital and should be covered under the maternity scheme which is free in Ireland.

Pherekydes

Sheeps wrote: »

How many women die every year from pregnancy complications in Ireland?

How many are acceptable to you?

Fighting Tao

tigger123 wrote: »

Fianna Fail TD on Rte1 just a moment ago who said the Love Both is staffed by old veterans of the game who've been around for 40 odd years. They tried to pick off TDs one by one to turn them to support the No side.

She said the pressure was immense to back a No vote.

I don't get this. If a TD made up their mind to support Yes, then they should be telling the lobbyists where to go and ignoring all calls and emails from them.

It wasnt me123

martingriff wrote: »

Could allways do this since the referendums after the X case

My understanding was that they could get "paper" information ie, written details of hospitals etc, but that the gps couldn't help in any way and certainly couldn't help afterwards.

I think that will change in the interim - they are saying Autumn for the legislation so that is this year hopefully.

martingriff

Billy86 wrote: »

Also to point out, this is a lie. Venezuela was in the list you have been provided on multiple occasions as having comparable abortion laws to ours and is on the list I have posted!

Illegal abortion is killing horrifying numbers of women in Venezuela

I think in a lot of those countries there is a lot of problems that need sorting out like allowing grown men have sex with underage women but ya people would be surprised what country has abortions

BarleySweets

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You think more women won’t have to travel to the UK for an abortion before the actual law changes? 🀔

That’s not what they said at all. Why are you putting words into their mouth?

This is what their post meant: No abortion will be legally provided in Ireland until new legislation passes because the Protection of Life Act 2013 still applies.

But, now that the 8th has been repealed, doctors will be allowed to provide information regarding abortions to their patients. Under the 2013 Act, doctors can’t literally provide “recommendations” or “support” or “aftercare” for abortions either, but they can provide information on all of the above now. This means that women are much better off already because while they can’t get the abortion here until new legislation passes, women will still need to travel but now that the 8th is gone, they’ll be able to do so with full information provided by their GP.

martingriff

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

My understanding was that they could get "paper" information ie, written details of hospitals etc, but that the gps couldn't help in any way and certainly couldn't help afterwards.

I think that will change in the interim - they are saying Autumn for the legislation so that is this year hopefully.

Sorry I thought you meant in a year my apologies I am also accounting some politicians looking for other stuff and court cases

Sheeps

Pherekydes wrote: »

How many are acceptable to you?

Zero deaths by pregnancy complications would be acceptable to me. Do you have a figure or do you answer every question with another question in an attempt to dodge answering?

BarleySweets

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I don't get this. If a TD made up their mind to support Yes, then they should be telling the lobbyists where to go and ignoring all calls and emails from them.

It can’t be that easy!

Imagine you’re a TD and getting dozens of calls from random lobbyists who, while not overtly threatening you, imply heavily that if you do not switch to publicly support the No-side, they’ll arrange rent-a-mobs to gate crash every future re-election event you ever attend so that every time you’re trying to address the media or your constituents, there’ll be a rowdy mob there roaring “BABY KILLER!”.

We all give TDs a lot of stick but dealing with that kind of **** can’t be easy.

Shurimgreat

Billy86 wrote: »

No, sorry, you're trying to muddy the waters again. Once more, this is the full and comprehensive list of countries that have abortion laws most in line with our own at present. Not a cherry picked few, this is the full and comprehensive list of all of them. You can cling to microstates Andorra and San Marino if it makes you feel better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.


It's not irrelevant, as it came about from this discussion and was in direct response to a 'No' poster claiming abortion is not 'civilised'. If it were irrelevant, you would not have jumped into the conversation as you did. The fact is the argument just doesn't work in your favour here.

First off if you think flushing an aborted foetus down a toilet is civilised well done you. Little different to the Tuam babies scandal in my view. Outrage over one, the other seen as a welcome "civilising" of this country.

Secondly you seemed to have picked selectively from the list.
Saudi Arabia has a limited form of abortion. Do you think this is a civilised country we should look up to?

On the contray you have undermined your own argument. Many countries with access to abortion are completely brutal regimes with appalling human rights record eg North Korea and China. You think they are civilised countries to look up to?

_Dara_

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Well said. I suspect some of the gloaters on here didnt actually bother their arse to vote. But a bandwagon is always a magnet for some.

I’d say most did vote, tbh.

namloc1980

Fianna Fail are the most irrelevant entity after today's result along with Iona.

erica74

I bet this is that poster from the last abortion referendum thread:pac:

woejus

Some great coverage of the Yes landslide on http://theliberal.ie/ now....hahaha

pl4ichjgy17zwd

woejus wrote:

Some great coverage of the Yes landslide on now....hahaha

An historic vote and they're talking about a budget airline route

Billy86

Shurimgreat wrote: »

First off if you think flushing an aborted foetus down a toilet is civilised well done you. Little different to the Tuam babies scandal in my view. Outrage over one, the other seen as a welcone "civilising" of this country.

There ya go, didn't take long for the mask to come off.

Secondly you seemed to have picked selectively from the list.
Saudi Arabia has a limited form of abortion. Do you think this is a civilised country we should look up to?

No, I picked from the listed as Ireland was - yes for the mothers life at risk, no to everything else. Saudi Arabia allows abortion when the mother's physical health (not just life) or mental health are at risk. Ireland does not. Try again.

On the contray you have undermined your own argument. Many countries with access to abortion are completely brutal regimes with appalling human rights record eg North Korea.

See, you keep trying that one but I keep reminding you that you will have to lump them in with North America, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, basically all of Europe and so on. You really are not doing yourself any favours here.

Here's your full and comprehensive list again, of countries with the most comparable abortion laws to us at present (thankfully we will be leaving this bracket in the coming months). I'll underline Venezuela this time, just so you don't miss it again. Like I said feel free to cling to Andorra or San Marino if you wish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.

According to the poster who this started in, these are the bastions of civilizaton the rest of the world should be looking towards. Do you agree?

Noveight

Now that the Yes vote has gone through, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

pl4ichjgy17zwd

Noveight wrote:

Now that the Yes vote has gone thourh, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

Simon Harris said they hope to have legislation passed by autumn

ohnonotgmail

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Maybe. Its primarily elective surgery though. And even if it is valid, most people dont have a medical card.

No surgery required in the vast majority of cases when the woman is less than 12 weeks pregnant.

Billy86

Noveight wrote: »

Now that the Yes vote has gone thourh, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

This morning Harris said they want to have legislation drawn up for proposal for the Oireachtas by the end of the summer, if memory serves me correct.

TheValeyard

Noveight wrote: »

Now that the Yes vote has gone thourh, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

Depends on legislation.

Probably have an idea on Tuesday after cabinet meeting. Plans might be set in motion then.

Sheeps

Noveight wrote: »

Now that the Yes vote has gone through, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

They already are taking place in Ireland.

It wasnt me123

BarleySweets wrote: »

That’s not what they said at all.


.......

Thank you BarleySweets, that's exactly what I meant but you put it much more succinctly than I could. I was working at the referendum yesterday so my brain is mush today.

I said all along it would be 70/30
Yesterday I had my doubts as the no voters were vocal in their no (not rude or anything just happy to talk about their vote) and I was worried.

I'm overjoyed today.

hatrickpatrick

mcmoustache wrote: »

I would thank this more than once if I could. Very well expressed. I'm nearly 40 and all of that post is right on the nose.

Can I ask, how much of this was known when you were a kid / teen? I was roughly 18 when it all finally erupted to the surface of the national consciousness. Before that, as I said, I'd honestly been raised with and happily bought into the idea that Ireland was one of the greatest countries in the world, both economically and politically / socially. If you're nearly 40 then you would have lived through the 1980s - I was born in '89, so I'm a 90s kid through and through. Can you remember in the 80s and early 90s, was this stuff ever talked about? Did young people know about it? Would you have been aware, prior to the Ryan and Murphy reports, that Ireland had this horrendous litany of abuse in its recent history, or was this truly buried and sealed, waiting for the noughties to be rediscovered? Do you remember, for instance, ever hearing about the last Magdalene laundries being closed in the mid-90s, or was this just something which didn't command any sort of national prominence as a news story?

What I'm basically trying to get to the bottom of is how this could have been simultaneously such a huge cultural thing in Ireland and yet also something which shocked so many people when the reports came out. Did my family and my school teachers choose to shield my generation from this awfulness and only tell us the good things about our country, or had it genuinely just slipped out of the national psyche and been honestly overlooked as something that was important to talk about and acknowledge?

And as a second question, do you remember anything around contraception or homosexuality, and any sort of cultural change in your lifetime prior to the rapid acceleration of liberalism in the 2000s?

Feel free not to answer if any of this is too personal, but I've just always been fascinated as to how such a horrible thing could be so easily forgotten about in an entire nation's recent history. On the other hand, reading some of the stories from the victims, it would appear that at least to some extent, society at large was genuinely unaware of the horrors that were going on behind closed doors.

BarleySweets

Noveight wrote: »

Because their reaction seems to be making a bit of a carnival of the whole thing, like it's a personal achievement of theirs that the Yes vote has gone through. Furthermore, it is disrespectful of those who who voted No and I don't believe that is called for. Gloating over the result or claiming a moral high-ground isn't beneficial to anyone, nor is it a good reflection on a person themselves.



Indeed I do, very well.



No idea why they'd react as they have chosen to, precisely the reason why I believe it's unwarranted.

Why don’t you just stop virtue signaling and keep your nose out of other people’s business?

Let these grown adults celebrate the referendum result however they want.