Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

AtomicHorror

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ok we will eave that out if your struggling and simply ask you ,
Would you support a right to choice for men ?

I've made my points in the other thread, which you have now found.

Fighting Tao

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Men don't get to opt out its illegal to walk away,

It's illegal for women to walk away too but some do it. So all is equal there for men and women opting out by walking away.


Btw, I added this to my last post and you probably didn't get to see it:
Do you want men to have access to abortions too in order to completely level the playing field? This is how silly your questions are!

yourdeadwright

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Like men, women can also walk away too. This leaves the child with the man.  See, that is equality. Both get to opt out.

You're not getting it. That other kid has a balloon. I want two balloons.

Its legal for a women to opt out not for a man ,

ArmaniJeanss

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ok we will eave that out if your struggling and simply ask you ,
Would you support a right to choice for men ?

Men will have the right to choose, the same as women. If a man gets pregnant then he can have an abortion under the same limits as women after this referendum/legislation is signed. That's what we voted on.
Stop tagging on extra things and pretending they are the same.

AtomicHorror

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its legal for a women to opt out not for a man ,

Men have bodily autonomy and always have. Now you want something additional. Financial autonomy. Go to the other thread!

martingriff

gctest50 wrote: »

Did you have access to her medical records ?

Do you know more than this man ?

Going by the inquiry that said medical misadventure and even when asking for an abortion you have to wait 72 hours

yourdeadwright

Fighting Tao wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Men don't get to opt out its illegal to walk away,

It's illegal for women to walk away too but some do it. So all is equal there for men and women opting out by walking away.


Btw, I added this to my last post and you probably didn't get to see it:
Do you want men to have access to abortions too in order to completely level the playing field? This is how silly your questions are!

Women can legally out a child up of adoption ,
No I don't want men to have access to abortions,
Its not silly at all ,
Women have a number of legal a choice's to opt out of parent hood a man does not

wexie

....You guys are all aware the referendum is over and the results are in right?

(Yes won....I believe they called it a landslide victory)

Fighting Tao

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Women can legally out a child up of adoption ,

Without the fathers consent?

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No I don't want men to have access to abortions,

Why not? It is equality after all. What about those who had gender re-assignemnet? Why do you not want them treated equally?

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its not silly at all ,
Women have a number of legal a choice's to opt out of parent hood a man does not

It has been highlighted how men can opt out so it is silly. If you are that much a tight ass nasty person and don't want to pay towards the children you stated you have stop paying.

gctest50

martingriff wrote: »

................

There was so much more the yes side could have a stuck to for a Yes vote without using this horrible death.

Her father asked/said her image to be used to support the Yes side

Fighting Tao

wexie wrote: »

....You guys are all aware the referendum is over and the results are in right?

(Yes won....I believe they called it a landslide victory)

Yup, and I think it's causing a few heads to explode

yourdeadwright

AtomicHorror wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its legal for a women to opt out not for a man ,

Men have bodily autonomy and always have. Now you want something additional. Financial autonomy. Go to the other thread!

Its about having the right of choice, Which seems to have brackets that read (only if your a women)

ohnonotgmail

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its about having the right of choice, Which seems to have brackets that read (only if your a women)

well when men can get pregnant they will have the same rights in that regard.

Shurimgreat

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Unfortunately that's not good enough for DubInMeath. He said he wants to be sure of the source. So I am providing him data from a pro abortion group.

No I said I wanted the scientific evidence/ data to back up your claim, can repost what I wrote if you had trouble reading it the first two times.

Fighting Tao

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its about having the right of choice, Which seems to have brackets that read (only if your a women)

Zubeneschamali

Here is a letter from well known prolife headtheball Phonsie Cullinan, the Bishop of Waterford and Lismore, dated 16th May, addressed to priests of his diocese relaying advice on suitable words to use at Mass written by Eilis Mulroy of the ProLife Campaign.

Tell me again how this was a secular campaign by non-religious people?

kunst nugget

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Yeah but the poster's fitting right in there. Look, I don't want to argue with you about it. We probably won't agree and that's ok.

I don't agree with that poster and I've already said his 'Can men not have to pay for the babies' argument was coming across as whataboutery and not needed on this thread. I was taking issue with the poster I quoted being needlessly ott with the way she was talking about meninists and tantrums. It's like people going on about libtards, snowflakes and safe spaces. I guess I'd prefer to see people rise above that nonsense.

yourdeadwright

Fighting Tao wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Women can legally out a child up of adoption ,

Without the fathers consent?

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No I don't want men to have access to abortions,

Why not? It is equality after all. What about those who had gender re-assignemnet? Why do you not want them treated equally?

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its not silly at all ,
Women have a number of legal a choice's to opt out of parent hood a man does not

It has been highlighted how men can opt out so it is silly.  If you are that much a tight ass nasty person and don't want to pay towards the children you stated you have stop paying.

The last part sums it up ,
As a country we trust a women's judgement is decide's she doesn't want one, and rightly so
If a man doesn't want a child he must be "tight ass nasty person"

martingriff

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Too late for the smokescreen - Yes won and won emphatically.

The experts have explained why Savita died at length.

I think it's very wrong of you to try and warp the cause of that poor woman's death to validate your stance.

Build a bridge.

How about you read over my responses in this thread and you will see my stance which is a strong YES. The reason I am so strong about Savita cases is yes it was horrible the last 2 sentences if your post.

martingriff

gctest50 wrote: »

Her father asked/said her image to be used to support the Yes side

Well okay thanks

Taytoland

I was a bit amused seeing the naive teenagers with signs saying the North is next while knowing nothing about the current political situation in Northern Ireland and the centuries old elephant in the room. So it wouldn't be anything like the campaign in ROI.

retro:electro

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The last part sums it up ,
As a country we trust a women's judgement is decide's she doesn't want one, and rightly so
If a man doesn't want a child he must be "tight ass nasty person"

If it makes it any easier for you, I don’t think anyone would support a system where a woman could walk away financially unscathed and not have to contribute to her child’s upbringing either. But the point remains; men walk away and have been walking away from fatherhood since the beginning of time, repercussion free. Once the child has physically entered the world I think the very least you can do as a parent is provide for it financially. Anything less than that is scummy tbh. If he really doesn’t want to be involved, he should let her know as early in the pregnancy as he can, so she has all options open to her.
Apart from that I don’t know what else to tell you tbh. Do you feel left out because you didn’t get a referendum too? Awh

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its about having the right of choice, Which seems to have brackets that read (only if your a women)

Is the thread on your subject not going down to well?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057875996

Fighting Tao

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The last part sums it up ,
As a country we trust a women's judgement is decide's she doesn't want one, and rightly so
If a man doesn't want a child he must be "tight ass nasty person"

You’re a hoot. Men can opt out. Women can opt out. All is equal.

You should write to your TDs about all this inequality you face on a daily basis.

wexie

wexie wrote: »

....You guys are all aware the referendum is over and the results are in right?

(Yes won....I believe they called it a landslide victory)

Yes but some seem a little bit bitter about the result and are now only thinking about what ifs that others have already debated. Apparently.

martingriff

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Here is a letter from well known prolife headtheball Phonsie Cullinan, the Bishop of Waterford and Lismore, dated 16th May, addressed to priests of his diocese relaying advice on suitable words to use at Mass written by Eilis Mulroy of the ProLife Campaign.

Tell me again how this was a secular campaign by non-religious people?

Who says there was no religious people campaigning? However as a democracy everyone can have there say even the people you and I disagree with

yourdeadwright

retro:electro wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The last part sums it up ,
As a country we trust a women's judgement is decide's she doesn't want one, and rightly so
If a man doesn't want a child he must be "tight ass nasty person"

If it makes it any easier for you, I don’t think anyone would support a system where a woman could walk away financially unscathed and not have to contribute to her child’s upbringing either. But the point remains; men walk away and have been walking away from fatherhood since the beginning of time, repercussion free. Once the child has physically entered the world I think the very least you can do as a parent is provide for it financially. Anything less than that is scummy tbh. If he really doesn’t want to be involved, he should let her know as early in the pregnancy as he can, so she has all options open to her.
Apart from that I don’t know what else to tell you tbh. Do you feel left out because you didn’t get a referendum too? Awh

The point remains Men do not have the legal right to walk away ,
So a man is" scummy" if he doesn't pay for a kid he makes clear from day one he doesn't want,  but its ok for a women to abort a baby even if the man wants her to keep it,
I agree that a man should let a women know early in the pregnancy , but if he makes it clear he want to opt out of parenting why should he not have a "Right to choice" like she has,
No one is saying its a nice situation but its certainly makes no sense for a man to have zero rights .

Fighting Tao

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The point remains Men do not have the legal right to walk away ,
So a man is" scummy" if he doesn't pay for a kid he makes clear from day one he doesn't want,  but its ok for a women to abort a baby even if the man wants her to keep it,
I agree that a man should let a women know early in the pregnancy , but if he makes it clear he want to opt out of parenting why should he not have a "Right to choice" like she has,
No one is saying its a nice situation but its certainly makes no sense for a man to have zero rights .

I’m think you may have read what has been said to you since your question but I don’t think you have absorbed any of it.

seamus

martingriff wrote: »

True however even if current laws to be impacted they probably would not terminate unless she asks and there is a 72 hour waiting period.

The proposed law would allow a termination in an emergency and to preserve the health of the mother. Savita wouldn't have had to request one, it would have been recommended to her.

There was so much more the yes side could have a stuck to for a Yes vote without using this horrible death.

Savita was the case that poured fuel on the fire. The fire had been kept burning since 1983. The lobby was strong, but not that strong. Irish people were generally unhappy with the situation, but unsure of how to deal with it.

As recently as 2001, Bertie Ahern's government thought they could convince the public to make abortion on the grounds of suicide, illegal.

Politicians continually dodged the issue because the public was non-committal and preferred to pretend it wasn't happening.

Through the late 2000s and early 2010s, the campaign managed to shed its reputation of just being a fringe group of crazy, purple-haired lesbians and became a much more "normal" campaign, with more and more women speaking out about their treatment under the eighth.

Then Savita happened. And Irish people could no longer pretend. It was right there in front of our faces. She wasn't some promiscuous teenager, or a welfare-class baby factory, or even an hysterical woman who'd changed her mind. Here was a middle-class, professional, intelligent woman with a very much wanted pregnancy that had unfortunately failed, and when she requested that it be terminated, she was denied because "this is a Catholic Country". And that denial ultimately cost her life.

Truth is, after that it looks like the "Yes" side barely had to do anything; the exit polls suggest that this referendum would have carried if you'd asked 4 years ago.

But the "No" side continuously asked for examples of maternal deaths caused by the eighth. And here was one; so it kept coming up.

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Or Middle-Aged Defence, as they must be at this stage (MAD for short;)). I'm skeptical that this stuff will materialise on any scale, when push comes to shove. I suspect forestalling it was part of the reason behind the GP-led proposal. If placard-wielding mobs turn up outside GP surgeries, hindering little old ladies going in for flu medication or whatever, I'm sure the reaction on Liveline, social media, etc. will convince them sharpish that their activities are entirely pointless and counter-productive.

Just basing my opinion on what occurs in the UK and from knowing a few ex members of youth defence, my cousin being one. She would fall into your MAD category, but wouldn't give a sh1te what people like Joe Duffy or on social media say, she's a religious civil servant and based on both these facts thinks the whole of modern Ireland is out to get her.

retro:electro

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The point remains Men do not have the legal right to walk away ,
So a man is" scummy" if he doesn't pay for a kid he makes clear from day one he doesn't want,  but its ok for a women to abort a baby even if the man wants her to keep it,
I agree that a man should let a women know early in the pregnancy , but if he makes it clear he want to opt out of parenting why should he not have a "Right to choice" like she has,
No one is saying its a nice situation but its certainly makes no sense for a man to have zero rights .

You can be granted as many legal exemptions as you like in order to discharge you of your duties; you cannot deny biology. A court of law may be able to emancipate you from your rights but the fact will always remain that the child is your blood. Once the child enters the world its a different ball game, imo.

SusieBlue

The No side made no secret of the fact that if you voted Yes, you were a baby murderer.
The Yes side still won by a landslide.

Fighting Tao

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Here is a letter from well known prolife headtheball Phonsie Cullinan, the Bishop of Waterford and Lismore, dated 16th May, addressed to priests of his diocese relaying advice on suitable words to use at Mass written by Eilis Mulroy of the ProLife Campaign.

Tell me again how this was a secular campaign by non-religious people?

That letter reads like the tail shaking the dog.

Grayson

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/anti-abortion-gps-want-protection-if-they-refuse-to-refer-patients-1.3511214

Doctors who opposed removing the ban on abortion will ask Minister for Health Simon Harris to protect them from prosecution if they refuse to refer women to GPs willing to perform terminations.

Medical Alliance for the Eighth, a group representing GPs, nurses and midwives, said it was “naturally very disappointed” with the comprehensive victory for the Yes side in Friday’s referendum to repeal the Eighth Amendment.

The group has called on Mr Harris to extend protections for conscientious objectors to doctors who refuse referrals, which would, under the Government’s proposed abortion bill, be a breach of the law.

The alliance wants the Minister “to fully respect and protect the right to conscientious objection for all healthcare professionals and to ensure that nobody can be prosecuted for refusing to facilitate abortion.”

I don't think they should be allowed refuse referrals. If they can't do it, then send them to someone who can. The patient will find someone anyway, all they're doing is making it more difficult. I know it's talking about GP's but could you imagine that in a hospital setting. "No, I can't do it and I'm not going to get a colleague who can"

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/anti-abortion-gps-want-protection-if-they-refuse-to-refer-patients-1.3511214



I don't think they should be allowed refuse referrals. If they can't do it, then send them to someone who can. The patient will find someone anyway, all they're doing is making it more difficult. I know it's talking about GP's but could you imagine that in a hospital setting. "No, I can't do it and I'm not going to get a colleague who can"

Still a little bit pissed off that they have to refer for contraception, this is just another thing they don't want to have to refer for.

If they don't want to refer, would they be happy to have their names and surgeries posted on the HSE website as such so their patients can decide to switch practice or any new patients can decide not to go there?

Zubeneschamali

DubInMeath wrote: »

would they be happy to have their names and surgeries posted on the HSE website as such so their patients can decide to switch practice or any new patients can decide not to go there?

Word will get around the locality.

My own wife was warned by friends/workmates to stay far, far away from Prolife ObGyn Monaghan in Ballinasloe more than 20 years ago.

circadian

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Word will get around the locality.

My own wife was warned by friends/workmates to stay far, far away from Prolife ObGyn Monaghan in Ballinasloe more than 20 years ago.

Sounds like a great Doctor...... https://www.irishtimes.com/news/boy-7-gets-4m-for-negligence-during-birth-1.776645

Odhinn

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I see Ciara Sherlock is having a slight meltdown. She claims the referendum was rigged. Jesus told her it was a 53% No majority vote.

Is that a real account or a fake? Because she seems bat shit insane, tbh.
https://www.facebook.com/ciara.sherlock.50

Fighting Tao

Odhinn wrote: »

Is that a real account or a fake? Because she seems bat shit insane, tbh.
https://www.facebook.com/ciara.sherlock.50

WOW!

Loafing Oaf

Odhinn wrote: »

Is that a real account or a fake? Because she seems bat shit insane, tbh.
https://www.facebook.com/ciara.sherlock.50

Fake sadly. The well-known pro-life activist is Cora Sherlock.

ohnonotgmail

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I see Ciara Sherlock is having a slight meltdown. She claims the referendum was rigged. Jesus told her it was a 53% No majority vote.

how is she related to Cora?

ohnonotgmail

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Fake sadly. The well-known pro-life activist is Cora Sherlock.

Ciara seems to be FB friends with a lot of people on the No side.

Fighting Tao

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Fake sadly. The well-known pro-life activist is Cora Sherlock.

Bat**** crazy is still fitting though.

strandroad

I don't think it's necessarily fake... There is a Ciara Sherlock person who is very religious. Not sure if there's any relation to the activist Sherlock family.

Odhinn

strandroad wrote: »

I don't think it's necessarily fake... There is a Ciara Sherlock person who is very religious. Not sure if there's any relation to the activist Sherlock family.

I don't think it is fake - possibly a sister of cora?

Loafing Oaf

strandroad wrote: »

I don't think it's necessarily fake... There is a Ciara Sherlock person who is very religious. Not sure if there's any relation to the activist Sherlock family.

Oh right, well I'm not sure so...

Hitman3000

Odhinn wrote:

Is that a real account or a fake? Because she seems bat **** insane, tbh.

It's real alright.

freshpopcorn

strandroad wrote: »

I don't think it's necessarily fake... There is a Ciara Sherlock person who is very religious. Not sure if there's any relation to the activist Sherlock family.

I set up a fake facebook page to follow the real No/Yes people. From what I could tell Ciara is real. She is very religious and often goes live talking about her views!

ohnonotgmail

Hitman3000 wrote: »

It's real alright.

yeah she has a twitter account for the last 8 years with 7K+ tweets so she is real alright

Odhinn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I set up a fake facebook page to follow the real No/Yes people. From what I could tell Ciara is real. She is very religious and often goes live talking about her views!

O shes a live wire allright....

Sadly the referendum was rigged!... The Lord told me it was a 53% No vote. Please pray that all the lies deceit and misinformation will be exposed and uncovered in relation to this and that whistleblowers are stirred to come forward and speak and that a legal challenge to block this is successful in Jesus' name.

https://www.facebook.com/ciara.sherlock.50

..unless "The Lord" is a polling company.