Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Those type of comments are not helpful is as silly as the "women's place is the revolution" slogan.

The strong muscular female arm on the poster (ironically aping soviet russia)

Silly stuff in my eyes

It is not putting yourself last it is thinking of the greater good rather then a selfish quick fix act, which is likely to cause more trouble in the long run.

An abortion cannot be undone but a child can be adopted or fostered.

Which could bring happiness to another woman/man/same sex couple whatever.

The consequences of abortion are far more finite.

It is feigning strength, choice etc...there are other choices.

When it comes down to it is a SELFISH act.

that apes a Rosie the Riveter poster from WW2 which was american not russian. Do your homework. Educate yourself.

Timberrrrrrrr

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Those type of comments are not helpful is as silly as the "women's place is the revolution" slogan.

The strong muscular female arm on the poster (ironically aping soviet russia)

Silly stuff in my eyes

It is not putting yourself last it is thinking of the greater good rather then a selfish quick fix act, which is likely to cause more trouble in the long run.

An abortion cannot be undone but a child can be adopted or fostered.

Which could bring happiness to another woman/man/same sex couple whatever.

The consequences of abortion are far more finite.

It is feigning strength, choice etc...there are other choices.

When it comes down to it is a SELFISH act.

You either haven't read any of the threads or just choose to ignore the fact that this isn't really an option

ohnonotgmail

pleas advice wrote: »

...

Not sure what you think you have shown there but you have completely missed the mark. as usual.

swampgas

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Those type of comments are not helpful is as silly as the "women's place is the revolution" slogan.

The strong muscular female arm on the poster (ironically aping soviet russia)

Silly stuff in my eyes

It is not putting yourself last it is thinking of the greater good rather then a selfish quick fix act, which is likely to cause more trouble in the long run.

An abortion cannot be undone but a child can be adopted or fostered.

Which could bring happiness to another woman/man/same sex couple whatever.

The consequences of abortion are far more finite.

It is feigning strength, choice etc...there are other choices.

When it comes down to it is a SELFISH act.

So, you think your version of selfless should be made compulsory by law? Should we force people to donate kidneys? Should we force people to give a room to the homeless in their homes? Should we force people to adopt and foster, for the greater good? Or should people have a choice in these matters, perhaps?

You're talking nonsense, to be honest - you just see women as breeding machines, and you would prefer if they didn't have any say in the matter.

robarmstrong

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is feigning strength, choice etc...there are other choices.

When it comes down to it is a SELFISH act.

I think forcing a pregnancy on a woman who clearly doesn't want one just because you don't agree with abortion is a lot more selfish than her getting an abortion.

You're a woman, your partner batters you, you tell him you don't want a baby yet sure he gets you pregnant anyways.

Is terminating that forced pregnancy and getting the f*ck out of that relationship "feigning strength"?

ELM327

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Those type of comments are not helpful is as silly as the "women's place is the revolution" slogan.

The strong muscular female arm on the poster (ironically aping soviet russia)

Silly stuff in my eyes

It is not putting yourself last it is thinking of the greater good rather then a selfish quick fix act, which is likely to cause more trouble in the long run.

An abortion cannot be undone but a child can be adopted or fostered.

Which could bring happiness to another woman/man/same sex couple whatever.

The consequences of abortion are far more finite.

It is feigning strength, choice etc...there are other choices.

When it comes down to it is a SELFISH act.

And the 9 months of pregnancy?
Would you endure 9 months pregnancy for another's happiness?
Womb for hire?:mad:

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This post has been deleted.

gormdubhgorm

Shurimgreat wrote: »

@gormdubh.

I wouldn't waste my time on this thread. Many from the No side have been shouted down and told to stop posting, give up, etc because they lost.

It has become a yes side circle jerk and thank fest and my advice would be to leave them to it.

I steered clear of it during the ref for fear I would get annoyed by it all and abstain (which I was close to doing)

Do people not see nuance and other alternatives.

Abortion the quick fix answer for the next generation people now like getting a Caffè mocha or herbal tea?

No mention of adoption laws etc etc

ELM327

swampgas wrote: »

So, you think your version of selfless should be made compulsory by law? Should we force people to donate kidneys? Should we force people to give a room to the homeless in their homes? Should we force people to adopt and foster, for the greater good? Or should people have a choice in these matters, perhaps?

You're talking nonsense, to be honest - you just see women as breeding machines, and you would prefer if they didn't have any say in the matter.

Thankfully his version of Ireland is as dead as the dodo, the telex, aeromail and the prussian consulate in Siam.

ELM327

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I steered clear of it during the ref for fear I would get annoyed by it all and abstain (which I was close to doing)

Do people not see nuance and other alternatives.

Abortion the quick fix answer for the next generation people now like getting a Caffè mocha or herbal tea?

No mention of adoption laws etc etc

The same 4k abortions per year that have been happening since 1983?


Ah the old "quick lunchtime abortion" bollox again.

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I steered clear of it during the ref for fear I would get annoyed by it all and abstain (which I was close to doing)

Do people not see nuance and other alternatives.

Abortion the quick fix answer for the next generation people now like getting a Caffè mocha or herbal tea?

No mention of adoption laws etc etc

Abortion has been an answer ever since people figured out how to do it. It is nothing to with the next generation thing. And to describe as being like getting a coffee or a tea just shows gross ignorance.

robarmstrong

Mavis Warm Stranger wrote: »

I appreciate that you are prepared to defend your views, however others have clearly stated that they are adding certain no voters to their ignore list, which is what I am referring to.

I'll put my hands up and say I am guilty of having certain no voters on my ignore list, the obvious suspects will remain unnamed as they do nothing but lie/talk absolute bollocks/constantly offend people but I've quite a few that I haven't on it because they contribute constructively to the discussion, pleas advice, Outlaw Pete, Kumejima are some of them.

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I steered clear of it during the ref for fear I would get annoyed by it all and abstain (which I was close to doing)

Do people not see nuance and other alternatives.

Abortion the quick fix answer for the next generation people now like getting a Caffè mocha or herbal tea?

No mention of adoption laws etc etc

Adoption laws were mentioned extensively all the way through the process leading up to the referendum. they are not the answer. The people responsible for adoptions in this country say it is not an answer. As i said earlier you need to educate yourself. Ignorance is not bliss.

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I steered clear of it during the ref for fear I would get annoyed by it all and abstain (which I was close to doing)

Do people not see nuance and other alternatives.

Abortion the quick fix answer for the next generation people now like getting a Caffè mocha or herbal tea?

No mention of adoption laws etc etc

There was plenty of mention of the adoption laws and the foster care system if you had bothered to read the threads prior to the vote, so guess again.

gormdubhgorm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Even after you lost you still continue with the slut-shaming.

males can be sluts too

I never understand this term.
I reasoned out yes and not sides you are one of blinkered kind who does not like nuance reason and thought.

Can I be non-nuanced shaming?

ELM327

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

males can be sluts too I never understand this term I reasoned out yes and not sides you are one of blinkered kind who does not like nauance reason and thought.

Never to a bad word to say again him.

robarmstrong

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

males can be sluts too I never understand this term I reasoned out yes and not sides you are one of blinkered kind who does not like nauance reason and thought.

What thoughts and reasoning is being applied to forcing a pregnancy upon a woman who (for a variety of reasons) does not wish so?

Hitman3000

gormdubhgorm wrote:

Abortion the quick fix answer for the next generation people now like getting a Caffè mocha or herbal tea?

Ok that's done it for me, you should have just gone with 'social abortion'. I'm wasting no further time responding. Thankfully 2/3 's of the populace that voted had a different and more understanding opinion.

gormdubhgorm

See below in red.

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

B0jangles

There is something profoundly unpleasant about blindly deciding that other people are 'selfish' for looking at their own lives and circumstances and choosing to do what seems best for them.

You know exactly nothing whatsoever about those people's lives, you know nothing at all about what it takes another person to go through the nine months of pregnancy (even if everything goes perfectly), you know nothing about what that pregnancy does to another person's body - the long-term damage it can do. You won't ever have to live their lives but you feel entitled to judge them.

And you just know they are selfish.

ELM327

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

See below in red.

You are selfish for not donating 100% of your salary to the Simon community, by that logic.
Your life is not as important as those depending on you.

kylith

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It got me thinking on the two extremes

Yes - Selfish Act - MY body - MY choice - it was all MY, MY, MY, on the posters
A hopeful elimination of consequence
Individualist - mé féin



No - Selfless Act - put up with pain to bring another life into the world (unless a threat to the life of the mother)
Thinking of others rather then yourself.
Dealing consequences to actions.


That is what it boiled down to for me in it's simplest terms

Well, your attitude _was_ patronising. Pregnancy isn’t a bit of discomfort for 9 months, it is potentially hypermyesis, low blood pressure, high blood pressure, diabetes, pre-eclampsia, and SPD (the loosening of your joints to the point that your pelvis separates), followed by the agony of birth, complications of episiotomy such as infection and pain having sex forever, and lifelong stress incontinence.

SusieBlue

Mavis Warm Stranger wrote: »

And solicitors? Should, as one poster stated earlier, a list of solicitors against repeal be compiled so that everyone can avoid them too?

I appreciate that you are prepared to defend your views, however others have clearly stated that they are adding certain no voters to their ignore list, which is what I am referring to.

Additionally, I was asked whether I voted no in the referendum, and clarification as to the relevance of my vote has not been offered.

I wouldn't have an issue with a pro-life solicitor representing me, but if others felt differently that's their prerogative.
I really don't see what the issue is with that.

Well yes, as I said, this debate has been going on here for years now, and has gotten particularly heated (from both sides) for the last few months.

It isn't a case of someone posting one pro-life view and immediately being put on ignore by the Yes voters, its actually usually more of a case of the No voter refusing to back up there arguments or provide proof.
It gets very frustrating, and so as not to derail the thread, sometimes ignore is the only option.

To give context, there is one pro-life poster on Boards who was banned from every single abortion thread in the lead up the referendum.
Not for posting anything hateful or nasty, but for making post after post of outlandish claims, and then refusing to back anything up with evidence.

gormdubhgorm

robarmstrong wrote: »

What thoughts and reasoning is being applied to forcing a pregnancy upon a woman who (for a variety of reasons) does not wish so?

Show more bravery.

Don't take the easy option (unless suicidal etc)

It is the disposable society we live in I suppose

Shurimgreat

Shurimgreat wrote: »

@gormdubh.

I wouldn't waste my time on this thread. Many from the No side have been shouted down and told to stop posting, give up, etc because they lost.

It has become a yes side circle jerk and thank fest and my advice would be to leave them to it.

Still waiting on scientific facts/data/evidence from you to back up your claim that the laws in relation to accessing an abortion in the uk are routinely broken.

I've received a link to a page on a pro life site that was proven to be false in the previous threads before the vote.

I've received a link to a page for reproductivechoices which made no mention of the laws being broken, but argued against a case being put forward for the reduction of the uk limit of 24 weeks to 20 weeks.

Billy86

Yes - Selfish Act - MY body - MY choice - it was all MY, MY, MY, on the posters
A hopeful elimination of consequence
Individualist - mé féin

No - Selfless Act - put up with pain to bring another life into the world (unless a threat to the life of the mother)
Thinking of others rather then yourself.
Dealing with consequences to actions.

Sorry, but given how self-congratulatory that came across as, can I ask what you have done to help the mothers of unwanted pregnancies, families who wind up with a child they cannot afford, the children neglected as a result of not being wanted, etc?

Because I heard that "putting up with pain for the greater good" type of stuff over and over and over and over through the campaign from the no side, but genuinely not once -not one single time- when I have asked what they do on this front to help after birth, have I got an answer. And unless someone has been doing doing a significant amount to assist in these situations, they are not "putting up" with any pain whatsoever - they're just volunteering others to do so on their behalf in order to feel better about themselves.

Shurimgreat

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I steered clear of it during the ref for fear I would get annoyed by it all and abstain (which I was close to doing)

Do people not see nuance and other alternatives.

Abortion the quick fix answer for the next generation people now like getting a Caffè mocha or herbal tea?

No mention of adoption laws etc etc

I agree totally. Unfortunately having posted on this thread I quickly learned there are no nuances.

If you voted No, you were in favour of killing sick mothers, ok with 10 year old rape victims, etc. just to give a flavor.

The fact that most voted No in order to come up with better proposed legislation that dealt better with hard cases was lost.

Its a Yes side circle jerk Gorm and I wouldn't waste your precious time.

One last point Gorm. I read this morning that many abortions will take two doctors appointments. Some will also take surgical procedures. The difficulty of fitting most if not all under the 12 week limit seems clear given the delays in the Irish healthcare system and GP appointments.

Removing the 8th is all well and good. Its when they get into the nitty gritty specifically about the 12 week limit and enforcing that cut off is where the problems will start.

Que outraged Yes voters saying something childish along the lines of "you lost, your opinion doesn't count, you are talking bollix" blah blah blah.

Hard to believe adults can behave like such children to be honest.

I will check back in in a couple of days to amuse myself at this circle jerk. And that's all it has become at this stage.

kunst nugget

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I reasoned out yes and not sides you are one of blinkered kind who does not like nuance reason and thought.

You really think your abortion - selfish, no abortion - selfless argument is nuanced?

gormdubhgorm

kylith wrote: »

Well, your attitude _was_ patronising. Pregnancy isn’t a bit of discomfort for 9 months, it is potentially hypermyesis, low blood pressure, high blood pressure, diabetes, pre-eclampsia, and SPD (the loosening of your joints to the point that your pelvis separates), followed by the agony of birth, complications of episiotomy such as infection and pain having sex forever, and lifelong stress incontinence.

Those are extreme consequences there are extreme consequences to abortion too.

It is still just 9 months when all is said and done.

seamus

Using gormdubhgorm's logic that people should be forced to do selfless things and not permitted to do selfish things, I presume he'd be delighted about a law which made it illegal to save money and instead forced everyone to give all their leftover money to charity at the end of the month?

I mean, otherwise you're just being selfish. Put up with the pain of living hand-to-mouth so that someone less fortunate can be given a leg up. Thinking of others rather than yourself. Dealing with the consequences to actions rather than being able to just pay them off from savings. Show more bravery. Don't take the easy option.

robarmstrong

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Show more bravery.

Don't take the easy option (unless suicidal etc)

It is the disposable society we live in I suppose

Tell me what showing more bravery looks like.

What's the easy option? Terminating the pregnancy forced upon you (technically rape) and removing yourself from such a horrible relationship is easy, is it?

Tell me more about this disposable society we live in, I'd like to hear more and more of your opinions so I can continue to discredit your posts as bollocks.

ELM327

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Show more bravery.

Don't take the easy option (unless suicidal etc)

It is the disposable society we live in I suppose

I note your response was not recieved for this post.
Ignoring again are we? Common trend from the birth enforcement squad

ELM327 wrote: »

You are selfish for not donating 100% of your salary to the Simon community, by that logic.
Your life is not as important as those depending on you.

SusieBlue

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Show more bravery.

Don't take the easy option (unless suicidal etc)

It is the disposable society we live in I suppose

For some people, having an abortion is the most responsible thing to do.

Pray tell, whose best interests is it in for a woman to have a child she does not want, cannot look after, and cannot afford to feed?
Yours, is it? Its in your best interests because you get to force everyone to live according to your personal morals?

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This post has been deleted.

ELM327

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Those are extreme consequences there are extreme consequences to abortion too.

It is still just 9 months when all is said and done.

This is shockingly ridiculous.

gormdubhgorm

kunst nugget wrote: »

You really think your abortion - selfish, no abortion - selfless argument is nuanced?

That is what I decided following my conversation with the canvasser if you read the post again.

It is the individual v the greater good.

Others try to turn it into a feminist war or a religious war.

That is it in simple terms for me.

.......

This post has been deleted.

Hitman3000

Shurimgreat wrote:

The fact that most voted No in order to come up with better proposed legislation that dealt better with hard cases was lost.

Have you data to back this claim up?

SusieBlue

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is what I decided following my conversation with the canvasser if you read the post again.

It is the individual v the greater good.

Others try to turn it into a feminist war or a religious war.

That is it in simple terms for me.

Why should any person sacrifice their health, happiness and life plans for the "greater good" of society? Essentially turning their misfortune into collateral damage?

Its not in children's best interests to be forced onto unwilling parents who do not want them. Not very pro-life of you to insist otherwise.

B0jangles

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is what I decided following my conversation with the canvasser if you read the post again.

It is the individual v the greater good.

Others try to turn it into a feminist war or a religious war.

That is it in simple terms for me.

Have you volunteered to donate a kidney to anyone who needs it?

Bit selfish of you to hang on to two when you only need one to live a perfectly healthy life.



(Judging by the standards you have set for other people to live by anyway.)

gormdubhgorm

see bleow

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

end of the road

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Don't buy it.... just be honest you were No, no matter what. Blaming the legislature is an excuse and easily seen through.

it's a perfectly legitimate reason. just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it otherwise. if he says he voted no because he doesn't trust the politicians then that is why he voted no

SusieBlue

I can't believe the referendum is over and people are still putting forward the same nonsensical arguments as if it never happened.

B0jangles

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Newsflash - by this logic you should be donating all of your organs, money and home to those who have a need for them.


I will when I die

LOL - the generosity of giving everything when you no longer need or want it!

robarmstrong

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

see bleow

Might be news to you but yano, there's a woman surrounding that uterus that may not take kindly to you forcing her to remain pregnant because other people can't get pregnant.

Triceratops Ballet

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is what I decided following my conversation with the canvasser if you read the post again.

It is the individual v the greater good.

Others try to turn it into a feminist war or a religious war.

That is it in simple terms for me.

What is the greater good? what does that phrase mean in this context?

It is not more selfish to have an abortion because you want one than it is to have a child because you want one, they are both scenarios in which people are acting out their individual desires.

strandroad

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is what I decided following my conversation with the canvasser if you read the post again.

It is the individual v the greater good.

Others try to turn it into a feminist war or a religious war.

That is it in simple terms for me.

This selfish thing is so tiring. Many if not most women actually consider the needs of their existing families as well as their own health and wellbeing when they are faced with an unexpected pregnancy. We are not all pink haired selfish millennial hussies you know.

gormdubhgorm

See below.

B0jangles wrote: »

Have you volunteered to donate a kidney to anyone who needs it?

Bit selfish of you to hang on to two when you only need one to live a perfectly healthy life.


You are correct if I was compatable I would


(Judging by the standards you have set for other people to live by anyway.)

Billy86

gormdubhgorm, you might have missed my post so I'll ask again as it's been increasingly frustrating that I have not once got an answer on this from a 'no' voter taking the moral high ground about "putting up with the pain for the greater good" and whatnot.


Can I ask what you have done to help the mothers of unwanted pregnancies, families who wind up with a child they cannot afford, the children neglected as a result of not being wanted, etc?

Because I heard that "putting up with pain for the greater good" type of stuff over and over and over and over through the campaign from the no side, but genuinely not once -not one single time- when I have asked what they do on this front to help after birth, have I got an answer. And unless someone has been doing doing a significant amount to assist in these situations, they are not "putting up" with any pain whatsoever - they're just volunteering others to do so on their behalf in order to feel better about themselves.

gormdubhgorm

strandroad wrote: »

This selfish thing is so tiring. Many if not most women actually consider the needs of their existing families as well as their own health and wellbeing when they are faced with an unexpected pregnancy. We are not all pink haired selfish millennial hussies you know.

Why is it tiring that is what it comes down to for most hardliners (in particular) as proven in this thread.

Some going on about "slut-shaming" (that is code for argument lost in my mind when a person uses these terms - saddens me if I am honest)

I have a flavor of it now from reading the comments to my comments.

I just hope the hardliners are controlled by the moderates.

That is all I have to say on it.