Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

kylith

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

kylith wrote: »

Well, your attitude _was_ patronising. Pregnancy isn’t a bit of discomfort for 9 months, it is potentially hypermyesis, low blood pressure, high blood pressure, diabetes, pre-eclampsia, and SPD (the loosening of your joints to the point that your pelvis separates), followed by the agony of birth, complications of episiotomy such as infection and pain having sex forever, and lifelong stress incontinence.

Those are extreme consequences there are extreme consequences to abortion too.

It is still just 9 months when all is said and done.

No, they are not extreme. Every woman in my family has gotten gestational diabetes. Severe morning sickness is not unusual. Sciatica (arse cramps that leave you unable to walk, and feeling like one of your legs is being pulled clean off) is an _expected, normal side effect of being pregnant_. Eclampsia used to be a major killer, and still has no cure bar delivery. Loosening if the joints is not just normal, it’s _essential_ that it happens or the head _will not fit_ through the pelvis. If you think the stuff I’ve mentioned is one-in-a-million complications you’re sadly deluded.

And I’m not even bringing up the everyday stuff like insomnia, exhaustion, needing to pee all the goddam time, shortness of breath and acid reflux due to the foetus shoving all your organs into your rib cage, and Oh my gods this infernal, incessant fcking heat!

B0jangles

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

See below.

If you were really unselfish you'd get tested and make yourself available to anyone who shows up as a possible match.

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why is it tiring that is what it comes down to for most hardliners (in particular) as proven in this thread.

Some going on about "slut-shaming" (that is code for argument lost in my mind when a person uses these terms - saddens me if I am honest)

I have a flavor of it now from reading the comments to my comments.

I just hope the hardliners are controlled by the moderates.

That is all I have to say on it.

Well thankfully the majority of the electorate do not share your ignorance on all things pregnancy related.

strandroad

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are correct if I was compatable I would

But you are compatible with someone. Just sign up and it will be claimed, sooner or later.

gormdubhgorm

Billy86 wrote: »

gormdubhgorm, you might have missed my post so I'll ask again as it's been increasingly frustrating that I have not once got an answer on this from a 'no' voter taking the moral high ground about "putting up with the pain for the greater good" and whatnot.


Can I ask what you have done to help the mothers of unwanted pregnancies, families who wind up with a child they cannot afford, the children neglected as a result of not being wanted, etc?

Because I heard that "putting up with pain for the greater good" type of stuff over and over and over and over through the campaign from the no side, but genuinely not once -not one single time- when I have asked what they do on this front to help after birth, have I got an answer. And unless someone has been doing doing a significant amount to assist in these situations, they are not "putting up" with any pain whatsoever - they're just volunteering others to do so on their behalf in order to feel better about themselves.

People are willing to help through adoption and fostering if these laws where fixed it would be much easier to adopt Irish babies.
I remember Romanian babies used to have to be adopted years ago.

As for what I have done?

Do I have to go around adopting babies like angelina jolie and Brad Pitt to support women just because I voted no?

That is like me saying are you willing to help doctors perform abortions and make sure they are educated correctly silly argument on both sides

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

People are willing to help through adoption and fostering if these laws where fixed it would be much easier to adopt Irish babies.
I remember Romanian babies used to have to be adopted years ago.

As for what I have done?

Do I have to go around adopting babies like angelina jolie and Brad Pitt to support women just because I voted no?

That is like me saying are you willing to help doctors perform abortions and make sure they are educated correctly silly argument on both sides

that is a very selfish attitude you have.

gormdubhgorm

strandroad wrote: »

But you are compatible with someone. Just sign up and it will be claimed, sooner or later.

Medically not possible at the moment unfortunately.

end of the road

SusieBlue wrote: »

I can't believe the referendum is over and people are still putting forward the same nonsensical arguments as if it never happened.

in this day and age the losing side in a referendum doesn't suddenly go away because they didn't get the result they hoped for.

.......

This post has been deleted.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

it's a perfectly legitimate reason. just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it otherwise. if he says he voted no because he doesn't trust the politicians then that is why he voted no

Going by that logic he should have voted yes or abstained, as John McGuirk, Declan Ganley, Justin Barrett, the Christian Solidarity Party and Renua were all for a no vote, or are these the types of politicians/ political activists that are to be trusted?

I'm assume that every no voter who did so because they don't trust politicians are going to abstain from voting in all future local and general elections and referendums from this point onwards because to do otherwise would just be hypocritical would it not?

Billy86

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As for what I have done?

Do I have to go around adopting babies like angelina jolie and Brad Pitt to support women just because I voted no?

That comes over as you saying is other people should go through pain that you are unwilling to assist with yourself, so that you can feel more virtuous about contributing to a 'greater good'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if so it's really not a good look.

gormdubhgorm

Interesting how I am only on this thread a few hours and people want my kidney...

Who would have thought it....

The mind boggles..

.......

This post has been deleted.

B0jangles

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

People are willing to help through adoption and fostering if these laws where fixed it would be much easier to adopt Irish babies.
I remember Romanian babies used to have to be adopted years ago.

As for what I have done?

Do I have to go around adopting babies like angelina jolie and Brad Pitt to support women just because I voted no?

That is like me saying are you willing to help doctors perform abortions and make sure they are educated correctly silly argument on both sides

Frankly, yes, you do.

If you are going to demand extraordinary levels of self-sacrifice from other people, you have to be willing and eager to do the same yourself, otherwise you end up looking like a hypocrite.

pitifulgod

Mavis Warm Stranger wrote: »

And you're perfectly entitled to not vote for them, or to choose a different GP.

That is very different to shaming politicians for their stance.

They're public representatives, not like doxxing randomers or something.... You're highlighting what they stand for.

end of the road

DubInMeath wrote: »

Going by that logic he should have voted yes or abstained, as John McGuirk, Declan Ganley, Justin Barrett, the Christian Solidarity Party and Renua were all for a no vote, or are these the types of politicians/ political activists that are to be trusted?

ultimately you would have to put that question to someone who voted no for those reasons. it's not why i voted no so i can't give a definite answer. i'd suggest though that quite possibly they would tend to trust those who more aline with their views then those who don't.

DubInMeath wrote: »

I'm assume that every no voter who did so because they don't trust politicians are going to abstain from voting in all future local and general elections and referendums from this point onwards because to do otherwise would just be hypocritical would it not?

i would say no personally. ultimately it's better to vote, and i'd imagine they would simply vote for the politicians who closely aline with their views.

gormdubhgorm

Billy86 wrote: »

That comes over as you saying is other people should go through pain that you are unwilling to assist with yourself, so that you can feel more virtuous about contributing to a 'greater good'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if so it's really not a good look.

As I have said in my original post in this thread I have suffered my far share of physical pain and I got over it.

By voting no I thought I was contributing to the greater good - I don't really know what else you expect me to do as a voter.

As I said before are you going to help perform abortions because you voted yes?

robarmstrong

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Interesting how I am only on this thread a few hours and people want my kidney...

Who would have thought it....

The mind boggles..

Relax, nobody wants your kidney.

They do want you to vastly improve your attitude towards women who seek abortions and outright misogynistic views of what a woman goes through pregnancy with your "ah shur it's only 9 months".

How about a kick in the bollocks, every day for 9 months?

It's only 9 months to be fair.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/05/ireland-an-obituary

John Waters is proper bonkers, of course we knew this, but sweet Jesus, he really is mad.

gormdubhgorm

B0jangles wrote: »

Frankly, yes, you do.

If you are going to demand extraordinary levels of self-sacrifice from other people, you have to be willing and eager to do the same yourself, otherwise you end up looking like a hypocrite.

Silly argument good song on the username though.

Is having a child for 9 months an extraordinary self sacrifice?

I don't think so.

Hard work - yes..

Extraordinary - no

Rather then sacrifice the chance of a healthy child.

ohnonotgmail

Gintonious wrote: »

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/05/ireland-an-obituary

John Waters is proper bonkers, of course we knew this, but sweet Jesus, he really is mad.

No intention of clicking on that and giving that child the attention he craves.

ohnonotgmail

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Silly argument good song on the username though.

Is having a child for 9 months an extraordinary self sacrifice?

I don't think so.

Hard work - yes..

Extraordinary - no

Rather then sacrifice the chance of a healthy child.

so how many times have you been pregnant?

SusieBlue

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Silly argument good song on the username though.

Is having a child for 9 months an extraordinary self sacrifice?

I don't think so.

Hard work - yes..

Extraordinary - no

Rather then sacrifice the chance of a healthy child.

Feel free to carry copious amounts of pregnancies as self sacrifice, so then. Carry 5, 10, even 5 of them.
And put them all up for adoption, so that the millions of Daddy Warbux esque type potential parents in the queue can snap them up.
Do your duty, if you feel that strongly about it.
Just don't assume to be allowed an input with what someone else does with their womb.

kunst nugget

Gintonious wrote: »

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/05/ireland-an-obituary

John Waters is proper bonkers, of course we knew this, but sweet Jesus, he really is mad.

I got about halfway through that before losing the will to live, which is ironic…

iguana

9 months of little pains? I love my son more than anything on earth. I struggled to maintain a pregnancy and was only able to do so after surgery to remove endometrioma from my right ovary. For the first half of my pregnancy I vomited so hard and so often that I burst blood vessels in my eyeballs. The whites of my eyes were almost entirely red from the blood pooling up behind the scelra. I was absolutely terrified the first time I looked up from vomiting in the sink and saw what my eyes looked like. I often couldn't hold down water so struggled to stay hydrated, I had near constant migraines from low blood pressure. I often couldn't get out of bed from the pain and would just hang over the side of the mattress vomiting into a basin. With my immune system lowered, I succumbed to numerous viral infections that I could receive no treatment for. I was literally advised to try flat 7-up by my doctor. Thankfully I managed to avoid being hospitalised when I drank a glass of cola and held it down. I couldn't drink water, juice, milk (especially), fruit teas, etc without vomiting but I could drink cola. It was very bizarre but I'm glad it kept me out of hospital.

At 22 weeks I discovered that I had become completely intolerant to any dairy. So once I cut that out of my diet the vomiting finally stopped. Though by the the Symphysis pubis dysfunction had started so my ability to get about was limited. I blame that in part on the earlier sickness as I had been unable to exercise as much as I should have. I tried recommended pregnancy exercises like water aerobics to help build my stamina but ultimately discovered they made it worse. The other thing was that I was carrying an enormous bump. I'm 5'1" - a very small woman, my son was born weighing 9lb14oz - a monster baby. The discomfort was immense.

But worse than the discomfort, my son was badly positioned. He was head down but was lying back to back with a lot of his weight pressed into my right abdomen. Back to back labour is awful. For 2.5 days I experienced contractions every 5 minutes with no progress. On the 3rd morning of labour I was having contractions lasting 90seconds every 45 seconds. My waters broke but there was still no progress. By this point I was living in Wales, so had phenomenal maternity care. After a lot of discussion with my midwife, who offered me a range of options, I chose an epidural and oxytocin. It took 14 hours and an increased level of oxytocin to finally dilate fully. During this time my son's bad positioning was discovered and we attempted to gently get him to turn but he couldn't. The effects of the epidural was wearing off at this point as the contractions were too strong. I spent 2 hours in second stage labour but my son was stuck due to being badly positioned.

In the end I needed a c-section. The epidural was completely worn off by this point and I was given a spinal block. My heart reacted very badly to this and began to slow. To save my life I was given adrenalin. Then my body was cut open and, thanks to the adrenalin, I started losing blood at a dangerous rate. My son was born, I could hear him crying and while aware that the moment I'd waited so many years was happening, I was entirely detached due to blood loss. Stitching me up took a long time and I was aware the surgeons were having difficulty stemming the blood loss. I had a platelet transfer which slowed the blood flow enough to let them complete their work. As a result of the shock I started to vomit and let me tell you, vomiting when you are paralysed is one of the most horrible experiences imaginable. I had to be strapped to the bed which was then lifted, turned over and tilted to let gravity do the work my body couldn't. It was awful.

5 and a half years on and my body has never and will never recover. I have diastis recti which is particularly bad on the right side, with my torn muscles poking out and hanging over the section scar which was sewed tighter than it would have been due to bloodloss. My muscles are damaged and if I ever do routine abdominal exercises like sit-ups, I will damage them further. So reducing the slackness is impossible without surgery. I have stretch marks and pocked skin on my abdomen that is clearly not going to fade. And as much ridicule as women not wanting stretch marks received by pro-lifers on this forum, let me tell you that it's a physical disfigurement and something that is not that easy to come to terms with. I have a birthmark on my face, so I have lived all my life with a disfigurement that I can never hide, and even still the changes in the appearance of my body after birth have effected how I feel about myself. And beyond all that, I feel pain where the torn muscles are, my digestive tract is more sensitive and foods I never had an issue with bother me now.

As experiences go, I'd call my pregnancy, birth and post-birth experiences on the worse end of middling. It was pretty awful but ultimately my son is fine, I'm mostly fine and despite my maternity team's concerns, I managed to come away without any PTSD and suffered no postnatal depression which I was at high risk for. The thing is though, I wanted motherhood, desperately. I had gone long past the point where I was ready for motherhood and onto the part where I craved it. Where I'm not sure I'd have ever been whole without it, especially not with a miscarriage history. So the awfulness of the experience was tempered with gaining the thing I wanted more than anything in life. For someone who didn't want to be pregnant, who was ambivalent to motherhood, who ended up with a burden they weren't ready for/never wanted, someone who had conceived in trauma, who went through all that for a baby who was too ill to live, etc. I don't know if they ever could recover after going through all of that. And again, many pregnant women go through much, much worse.

Trasna1

CruelCoin wrote: »

How many planes came back with people from abroad just for the vote?

The vote was 2:1 dude...there isn't anything approaching a margin that could be challenged in the courts.

Where did I say that it made a difference to this vote?
The point I was making was that home to vote never makes a difference or if it does, it undermines the result. In this referendum the margin was obviously too large therefore home to vote numbers were not required - therefore didn't impact the result. Therefore those trips home was needless effort.

However if the vote was so tight that it had made a difference then their participation would have undermined the validity of the vote.

So hometovote is either needless effort or it undermines the result. So why do people do it then? I guess it makes for great virtue signaling on Twitter

gormdubhgorm

B0jangles wrote: »

There is something profoundly unpleasant about blindly deciding that other people are 'selfish' for looking at their own lives and circumstances and choosing to do what seems best for them.

You know exactly nothing whatsoever about those people's lives, you know nothing at all about what it takes another person to go through the nine months of pregnancy (even if everything goes perfectly), you know nothing about what that pregnancy does to another person's body - the long-term damage it can do. You won't ever have to live their lives but you feel entitled to judge them.

And you just know they are selfish.

That is the nub of the issue it is selfish, it is me feiner and it is Individual

The disposable society.

Like the yes poster told me MY, MY, MY etc.

Whether the individual's personal circumstances forces them into it is another matter.
I would feel sorry for them and the choice they have to make.

If designer abortions ever happen in Ireland.

I know my conscience is clear and it was not my fault that the ball started rolling.

B0jangles

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Silly argument good song on the username though.

Is having a child for 9 months an extraordinary self sacrifice?

I don't think so.

Hard work - yes..

Extraordinary - no

Rather then sacrifice the chance of a healthy child.

You know nothing whatsoever about how a pregnancy affects the person who is carrying it.

Nothing whatsoever.

I don't either by the way, which is why I'd never be arrogant enough to assume that my opinion on whether or not they should remain pregnant is more valid than theirs.

ohnonotgmail

iguana wrote: »

9 months of little pains? I love my son more than anything on earth. I struggled to maintain a pregnancy and was only able to do so after surgery to remove endometrioma from my right ovary. For the first half of my pregnancy I vomited so hard and so often that I burst blood vessels in my eyeballs. The whites of my eyes were almost entirely red from the blood pooling up behind the scelra. I was absolutely terrified the first time I looked up from vomiting in the sink and saw what my eyes looked like. I often couldn't hold down water so struggled to stay hydrated, I had near constant migraines from low blood pressure. I often couldn't get out of bed from the pain and would just hang over the side of the mattress vomiting into a basin. With my immune system lowered, I succumbed to numerous viral infections that I could receive no treatment for. I was literally advised to try flat 7-up by my doctor. Thankfully I managed to avoid being hospitalised when I drank a glass of cola and held it down. I couldn't drink water, juice, milk (especially), fruit teas, etc without vomiting but I could drink cola. It was very bizarre but I'm glad it kept me out of hospital.

At 22 weeks I discovered that I had become completely intolerant to any dairy. So once I cut that out of my diet the vomiting finally stopped. Though by the the Symphysis pubis dysfunction had started so my ability to get about was limited. I blame that in part on the earlier sickness as I had been unable to exercise as much as I should have. I tried recommended pregnancy exercises like water aerobics to help build my stamina but ultimately discovered they made it worse. The other thing was that I was carrying an enormous bump. I'm 5'1" - a very small woman, my son was born weighing 9lb14oz - a monster baby. The discomfort was immense.

But worse than the discomfort, my son was badly positioned. He was head down but was lying back to back with a lot of his weight pressed into my right abdomen. Back to back labour is awful. For 2.5 days I experienced contractions every 5 minutes with no progress. On the 3rd morning of labour I was having contractions lasting 90seconds every 45 seconds. My waters broke but there was still no progress. By this point I was living in Wales, so had phenomenal maternity care. After a lot of discussion with my midwife, who offered me a range of options, I chose an epidural and oxytocin. It took 14 hours and an increased level of oxytocin to finally dilate fully. During this time my son's bad positioning was discovered and we attempted to gently get him to turn but he couldn't. The effects of the epidural was wearing off at this point as the contractions were too strong. I spent 2 hours in second stage labour but my son was stuck due to being badly positioned.

In the end I needed a c-section. The epidural was completely worn off by this point and I was given a spinal block. My heart reacted very badly to this and began to slow. To save my life I was given adrenalin. Then my body was cut open and, thanks to the adrenalin, I started losing blood at a dangerous rate. My son was born, I could hear him crying and while aware that the moment I'd waited so many years was happening, I was entirely detached due to blood loss. Stitching me up took a long time and I was aware the surgeons were having difficulty stemming the blood loss. I had a platelet transfer which slowed the blood flow enough to let them complete their work. As a result of the shock I started to vomit and let me tell you, vomiting when you are paralysed is one of the most horrible experiences imaginable. I had to be strapped to the bed which was then lifted, turned over and tilted to let gravity do the work my body couldn't. It was awful.

5 and a half years on and my body has never and will never recover. I have diastis recti which is particularly bad on the right side, with my torn muscles poking out and hanging over the section scar which was sewed tighter than it would have been due to bloodloss. My muscles are damaged and if I ever do routine abdominal exercises like sit-ups, I will damage them further. So reducing the slackness is impossible without surgery. I have stretch marks and pocked skin on my abdomen that is clearly not going to fade. And as much ridicule as women not wanting stretch marks received by pro-lifers on this forum, let me tell you that it's a physical disfigurement and something that is not that easy to come to terms with. I have a birthmark on my face, so I have lived all my life with a disfigurement that I can never hide, and even still the changes in the appearance of my body after birth have effected how I feel about myself. And beyond all that, I feel pain where the torn muscles are, my digestive tract is more sensitive and foods I never had an issue with bother me now.

As experiences go, I'd call my pregnancy, birth and post-birth experiences on the worse end of middling. It was pretty awful but ultimately my son is fine, I'm mostly fine and despite my maternity team's concerns, I managed to come away without any PTSD and suffered no postnatal depression which I was at high risk for. The thing is though, I wanted motherhood, desperately. I had gone long past the point where I was ready for motherhood and onto the part where I craved it. Where I'm not sure I'd have ever been whole without it, especially not with a miscarriage history. So the awfulness of the experience was tempered with gaining the thing I wanted more than anything in life. For someone who didn't want to be pregnant, who was ambivalent to motherhood, who ended up with a burden they weren't ready for/never wanted, someone who had conceived in trauma, who went through all that for a baby who was too ill to live, etc. I don't know if they ever could recover after going through all of that. And again, many pregnant women go through much, much worse.

but apart from that it was grand, right?

Triceratops Ballet

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Silly argument good song on the username though.

Is having a child for 9 months an extraordinary self sacrifice?

I don't think so.

Hard work - yes..

Extraordinary - no

Rather then sacrifice the chance of a healthy child.

If you want to have a child, there is probably an adequate payoff in the joy etc that comes from it despite the hardship of pregnancy/labour. If you don't want to have a child then it is a lot, actually too much to ask of a woman to go through pregnancy and childbirth to serve some elusive "greater good" it's draconian tbh, it's not the job of some women to provide babies for women who can't have them, this is not f-ing Gilead!

gormdubhgorm

iguana wrote: »

9 months of little pains? I love my son more than anything on earth. I struggled to maintain a pregnancy and was only able to do so after surgery to remove endometrioma from my right ovary. For the first half of my pregnancy I vomited so hard and so often that I burst blood vessels in my eyeballs. The whites of my eyes were almost entirely red from the blood pooling up behind the scelra. I was absolutely terrified the first time I looked up from vomiting in the sink and saw what my eyes looked like. I often couldn't hold down water so struggled to stay hydrated, I had near constant migraines from low blood pressure. I often couldn't get out of bed from the pain and would just hang over the side of the mattress vomiting into a basin. With my immune system lowered, I succumbed to numerous viral infections that I could receive no treatment for. I was literally advised to try flat 7-up by my doctor. Thankfully I managed to avoid being hospitalised when I drank a glass of cola and held it down. I couldn't drink water, juice, milk (especially), fruit teas, etc without vomiting but I could drink cola. It was very bizarre but I'm glad it kept me out of hospital.

At 22 weeks I discovered that I had become completely intolerant to any dairy. So once I cut that out of my diet the vomiting finally stopped. Though by the the Symphysis pubis dysfunction had started so my ability to get about was limited. I blame that in part on the earlier sickness as I had been unable to exercise as much as I should have. I tried recommended pregnancy exercises like water aerobics to help build my stamina but ultimately discovered they made it worse. The other thing was that I was carrying an enormous bump. I'm 5'1" - a very small woman, my son was born weighing 9lb14oz - a monster baby. The discomfort was immense.

But worse than the discomfort, my son was badly positioned. He was head down but was lying back to back with a lot of his weight pressed into my right abdomen. Back to back labour is awful. For 2.5 days I experienced contractions every 5 minutes with no progress. On the 3rd morning of labour I was having contractions lasting 90seconds every 45 seconds. My waters broke but there was still no progress. By this point I was living in Wales, so had phenomenal maternity care. After a lot of discussion with my midwife, who offered me a range of options, I chose an epidural and oxytocin. It took 14 hours and an increased level of oxytocin to finally dilate fully. During this time my son's bad positioning was discovered and we attempted to gently get him to turn but he couldn't. The effects of the epidural was wearing off at this point as the contractions were too strong. I spent 2 hours in second stage labour but my son was stuck due to being badly positioned.

In the end I needed a c-section. The epidural was completely worn off by this point and I was given a spinal block. My heart reacted very badly to this and began to slow. To save my life I was given adrenalin. Then my body was cut open and, thanks to the adrenalin, I started losing blood at a dangerous rate. My son was born, I could hear him crying and while aware that the moment I'd waited so many years was happening, I was entirely detached due to blood loss. Stitching me up took a long time and I was aware the surgeons were having difficulty stemming the blood loss. I had a platelet transfer which slowed the blood flow enough to let them complete their work. As a result of the shock I started to vomit and let me tell you, vomiting when you are paralysed is one of the most horrible experiences imaginable. I had to be strapped to the bed which was then lifted, turned over and tilted to let gravity do the work my body couldn't. It was awful.

5 and a half years on and my body has never and will never recover. I have diastis recti which is particularly bad on the right side, with my torn muscles poking out and hanging over the section scar which was sewed tighter than it would have been due to bloodloss. My muscles are damaged and if I ever do routine abdominal exercises like sit-ups, I will damage them further. So reducing the slackness is impossible without surgery. I have stretch marks and pocked skin on my abdomen that is clearly not going to fade. And as much ridicule as women not wanting stretch marks received by pro-lifers on this forum, let me tell you that it's a physical disfigurement and something that is not that easy to come to terms with. I have a birthmark on my face, so I have lived all my life with a disfigurement that I can never hide, and even still the changes in the appearance of my body after birth have effected how I feel about myself. And beyond all that, I feel pain where the torn muscles are, my digestive tract is more sensitive and foods I never had an issue with bother me now.

As experiences go, I'd call my pregnancy, birth and post-birth experiences on the worse end of middling. It was pretty awful but ultimately my son is fine, I'm mostly fine and despite my maternity team's concerns, I managed to come away without any PTSD and suffered no postnatal depression which I was at high risk for. The thing is though, I wanted motherhood, desperately. I had gone long past the point where I was ready for motherhood and onto the part where I craved it. Where I'm not sure I'd have ever been whole without it, especially not with a miscarriage history. So the awfulness of the experience was tempered with gaining the thing I wanted more than anything in life. For someone who didn't want to be pregnant, who was ambivalent to motherhood, who ended up with a burden they weren't ready for/never wanted, someone who had conceived in trauma, who went through all that for a baby who was too ill to live, etc. I don't know if they ever could recover after going through all of that. And again, many pregnant women go through much, much worse.

Fair play to ya!
You got through it though.
Strength of character.

ohnonotgmail

Trasna1 wrote: »

Where did I say that it made a difference to this vote?
The point I was making was that home to vote never makes a difference or if it does, it undermines the result. In this referendum the margin was obviously too large therefore home to vote numbers were not required - therefore didn't impact the result. Therefore those trips home was needless effort.

However if the vote was so tight that it had made a difference then their participation would have undermined the validity of the vote.

So hometovote is either needless effort or it undermines the result. So why do people do it then? I guess it makes for great virtue signaling on Twitter

So you assume all the people home to vote are ineligible? do you have any facts to back that up?

retro:electro

robarmstrong wrote: »

How about a kick in the bollocks, every day for 9 months

I’d be willing to volunteer my kicking services

B0jangles

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is the nub of the issue it is selfish, it is me feiner and it is Individual

The disposable society.

Like the yes poster told me MY, MY, MY etc.

Whether the individual's personal circumstances forces them into it is another matter.
I would feel sorry for them and the choice they have to make.

If designer abortions ever happen in Ireland.

I know my conscience is clear and it was not my fault that the ball started rolling.

Your arrogance is astonishing.

nozzferrahhtoo

Trasna1 wrote: »

So hometovote is either needless effort or it undermines the result. So why do people do it then? I guess it makes for great virtue signaling on Twitter

I personally know people who were not really that pushed to vote, who were otherwise inspired to by the people who traveled long distances to do so. Nothing to do with "virtue signalling" at all, and everything to do with inspiring people to get off their asses and make their voice heard.

The line that seemed to motivate people most of all in that sense seems to be the people who were saying "I am travelling so Ireland's women do not have to". If I personally know people who were inspired by that one line to get up and go vote........ then I can only guess at how many people in the country ACTUALLY were. We may never know, but I would not be as ready to dismiss the impact of the people who traveled to vote as you are.

blanch152

iguana wrote: »

9 months of little pains? I love my son more than anything on earth. I struggled to maintain a pregnancy and was only able to do so after surgery to remove endometrioma from my right ovary. For the first half of my pregnancy I vomited so hard and so often that I burst blood vessels in my eyeballs. The whites of my eyes were almost entirely red from the blood pooling up behind the scelra. I was absolutely terrified the first time I looked up from vomiting in the sink and saw what my eyes looked like. I often couldn't hold down water so struggled to stay hydrated, I had near constant migraines from low blood pressure. I often couldn't get out of bed from the pain and would just hang over the side of the mattress vomiting into a basin. With my immune system lowered, I succumbed to numerous viral infections that I could receive no treatment for. I was literally advised to try flat 7-up by my doctor. Thankfully I managed to avoid being hospitalised when I drank a glass of cola and held it down. I couldn't drink water, juice, milk (especially), fruit teas, etc without vomiting but I could drink cola. It was very bizarre but I'm glad it kept me out of hospital.

At 22 weeks I discovered that I had become completely intolerant to any dairy. So once I cut that out of my diet the vomiting finally stopped. Though by the the Symphysis pubis dysfunction had started so my ability to get about was limited. I blame that in part on the earlier sickness as I had been unable to exercise as much as I should have. I tried recommended pregnancy exercises like water aerobics to help build my stamina but ultimately discovered they made it worse. The other thing was that I was carrying an enormous bump. I'm 5'1" - a very small woman, my son was born weighing 9lb14oz - a monster baby. The discomfort was immense.

But worse than the discomfort, my son was badly positioned. He was head down but was lying back to back with a lot of his weight pressed into my right abdomen. Back to back labour is awful. For 2.5 days I experienced contractions every 5 minutes with no progress. On the 3rd morning of labour I was having contractions lasting 90seconds every 45 seconds. My waters broke but there was still no progress. By this point I was living in Wales, so had phenomenal maternity care. After a lot of discussion with my midwife, who offered me a range of options, I chose an epidural and oxytocin. It took 14 hours and an increased level of oxytocin to finally dilate fully. During this time my son's bad positioning was discovered and we attempted to gently get him to turn but he couldn't. The effects of the epidural was wearing off at this point as the contractions were too strong. I spent 2 hours in second stage labour but my son was stuck due to being badly positioned.

In the end I needed a c-section. The epidural was completely worn off by this point and I was given a spinal block. My heart reacted very badly to this and began to slow. To save my life I was given adrenalin. Then my body was cut open and, thanks to the adrenalin, I started losing blood at a dangerous rate. My son was born, I could hear him crying and while aware that the moment I'd waited so many years was happening, I was entirely detached due to blood loss. Stitching me up took a long time and I was aware the surgeons were having difficulty stemming the blood loss. I had a platelet transfer which slowed the blood flow enough to let them complete their work. As a result of the shock I started to vomit and let me tell you, vomiting when you are paralysed is one of the most horrible experiences imaginable. I had to be strapped to the bed which was then lifted, turned over and tilted to let gravity do the work my body couldn't. It was awful.

5 and a half years on and my body has never and will never recover. I have diastis recti which is particularly bad on the right side, with my torn muscles poking out and hanging over the section scar which was sewed tighter than it would have been due to bloodloss. My muscles are damaged and if I ever do routine abdominal exercises like sit-ups, I will damage them further. So reducing the slackness is impossible without surgery. I have stretch marks and pocked skin on my abdomen that is clearly not going to fade. And as much ridicule as women not wanting stretch marks received by pro-lifers on this forum, let me tell you that it's a physical disfigurement and something that is not that easy to come to terms with. I have a birthmark on my face, so I have lived all my life with a disfigurement that I can never hide, and even still the changes in the appearance of my body after birth have effected how I feel about myself. And beyond all that, I feel pain where the torn muscles are, my digestive tract is more sensitive and foods I never had an issue with bother me now.

As experiences go, I'd call my pregnancy, birth and post-birth experiences on the worse end of middling. It was pretty awful but ultimately my son is fine, I'm mostly fine and despite my maternity team's concerns, I managed to come away without any PTSD and suffered no postnatal depression which I was at high risk for. The thing is though, I wanted motherhood, desperately. I had gone long past the point where I was ready for motherhood and onto the part where I craved it. Where I'm not sure I'd have ever been whole without it, especially not with a miscarriage history. So the awfulness of the experience was tempered with gaining the thing I wanted more than anything in life. For someone who didn't want to be pregnant, who was ambivalent to motherhood, who ended up with a burden they weren't ready for/never wanted, someone who had conceived in trauma, who went through all that for a baby who was too ill to live, etc. I don't know if they ever could recover after going through all of that. And again, many pregnant women go through much, much worse.

Thank you for sharing your story, I am sure it must have been difficult to do.

B0jangles

retro:electro wrote: »

I’d be willing to volunteer my kicking services

I'll start a crowdfunding appeal!




























On kickstarter :P

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

ultimately you would have to put that question to someone who voted no for those reasons. it's not why i voted no so i can't give a definite answer. i'd suggest though that quite possibly they would tend to trust those who more aline with their views then those who don't.





i would say no personally. ultimately it's better to vote, and i'd imagine they would simply vote for the politicians who closely aline with their views.

Bit hypocritical to say you don't trust politicians in relation to abortion, but you trust them if they voted no or that you trust politicans on any other issue.

Was there not a poster on earlier stating that we should not be identifying politicians etc who voted no because they would be harassed? The reverse is of course true in relation to identifying those who voted yes given the fake election style posters put up around Simon Harris consistuancy by the no side during the referendum.

7aubzxk43m2sni

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Do you have a link to these studies?

Cheers

kunst nugget

Mavis Warm Stranger wrote: »

Do you have a link to these studies?

Cheers

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-women-abortion-idUSKCN0PR1KP20150717

SusieBlue

Mavis Warm Stranger wrote: »

Do you have a link to these studies?

Cheers

And here's a study done on Irish women, of whom 97% didn't experience regret.

http://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-pills-study-3030940-Oct2016/

kylith

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As I have said in my original post in this thread I have suffered my far share of physical pain and I got over it.

By voting no I thought I was contributing to the greater good - I don't really know what else you expect me to do as a voter.

As I said before are you going to help perform abortions because you voted yes?

Why did you suffer physical pain?

Nettle Soup

There are 2 Yes voters in my family who are quite religious. They are furious about what the bishop said yesterday re sin/confession. Furious. Big mistake by Rome. Another nail...

Trasna1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So you assume all the people home to vote are ineligible? do you have any facts to back that up?

I should have qualified that remark. Ineligible hometovoters those that have left greater than 18 months, or those that have left less than 18 months but have no intention of returning. Many, but by no means all, that came back were not eligible. In this instance, it didn't matter, so it was wasted effort. But if it was close enough it would have been wasted effort since it would have left the outcome subject to court challenge and a likely rerun.

Those that have looked at traffic volumes suggest the impact of hometovote could have been up to 1%.


As a Democrat I have no problem with any eligible voter voting, no matter what way they cast it. That is their right.
I do have a problem with people committing fraud and undermining our elections, and for what? So they can feel good about themselves on Twitter?

ohnonotgmail

Interesting MRBI poll on voter turnout broken down by gender



https://twitter.com/naomiohreally/status/1001392366115348487

kunst nugget

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If designer abortions ever happen in Ireland.

What's that? Like Abortifacient by Gucci or D&C by D&G?

What would a hipster abortion be?

Doctor Jimbob

Nettle Soup wrote: »

There are 2 Yes voters in my family who are quite religious. They are furious about what the bishop said yesterday re sin/confession. Furious. Big mistake by Rome. Another nail...

To be fair to be the bishop, he's not wrong to express the view of his church in the matter. I completely disagree with the view myself, but he's entitled to express it. Anyone religious bothered by it should be reconsidering their stance on the church. Hopefully that's what we'll see from all this.

ohnonotgmail

Trasna1 wrote: »

I should have qualified that remark. Ineligible hometovoters those that have left greater than 18 months, or those that have left less than 18 months but have no intention of returning. Many, but by no means all, that came back were not eligible. In this instance, it didn't matter, so it was wasted effort. But if it was close enough it would have been wasted effort since it would have left the outcome subject to court challenge and a likely rerun.

Those that have looked at traffic volumes suggest the impact of hometovote could have been up to 1%.


As a Democrat I have no problem with any eligible voter voting, no matter what way they cast it. That is their right.
I do have a problem with people committing fraud and undermining our elections, and for what? So they can feel good about themselves on Twitter?

Or perhaps because it is an issue that they feel really strongly about?

kunst nugget

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Interesting MRBI poll on voter turnout broken down by gender



https://twitter.com/naomiohreally/status/1001392366115348487

Would be interesting to see what that translates to figure-wise and why there would seem to be so little engagement by women in the 18-24 age bracket when it comes to the election process.

iguana

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Fair play to ya!
You got through it though.
Strength of character.

I got through it because I wanted my son. Despite the awfulness of it, it was the beginning of what I consider the absolute best time of my life.

Try to imagine what it would have been like for someone who didn't want to be pregnant. It would have been fuçking hell. Not something I think anyone would be assured of ever recovering from.