Giro d'Italia 2018 stage 19: Venaria Reale – Jafferau 184km

Irish Raven

wpd wrote:

but most of all shame on anyone who believe this because we have seen this all before Lets remember this inspiring quote

The gospel according to this guy!!

On another note with today's performance....just remember froome is the best GC cyclist in the world by a long shot....the next prob 5 to 7 are not in this Giro....its froome and a time trialist... contending for the win...was always goin to be the case of these two...and if it came down to the two going up a mountain....the result would always be froome!!

fishfoodie

retalivity wrote: »

Whatever about froome, he personally seems genial and like a nice guy. But brailsfords smarmy comments and interview after are really stomach turning

Watching it, while having to endure Kirby, is like having someone scratch a blackboard with nails, while their mate kicks you in the balls repeatedly.

No more cycling for me until the UCI stops this farce.

Very obviously just marginal gains.
Nothing to see here. Move along.

SharpshooterTom

Is Froome now a shoo in for the TdF as well? The guy doesn't ever seem to lose. Only way he wont win is if the UCI block him from participating.

WinnyThePoo

RobertKK wrote: »

Sky News on their sports section spent a few minutes on this and the controversy over today's win.
They played what Tom Dumoulin had said before the tour started which was to raise questions over the validity of Froome taking part when he had not resolved the controversy over the Vuelta, and if he was to win the Giro, but then is stripped of the Vuelta, is he also stripped of the Giro if he wins it.
Potential for an enormous sports story that could have been avoided, if Froome is stripped of the Vuelta.
Sky News provided more critical coverage of the win than Eurosport which did everything to avoid the elephant in the room.

They tend to avoid the whole doping thing on eurosport. More to do with advertisers and how much cycling programming they produce. Of course speculation on air can also bring lawsuits. Sure Armstrong sued everybody.

odyssey06

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

They tend to avoid the whole doping thing on eurosport. More to do with advertisers and how much cycling programming they produce. Of course speculation on air can also bring lawsuits. Sure Armstrong sued everybody.

They should really bring in mandatory drugs testing for Eurosport commentators too!

spectator to take out Froome tomorrow!

Sprinter Sacre

https://twitter.com/LottoJumbo_road/status/1000105610489286662

Hats off to George Bennett

not sane

Did a Landis lol

scott1974

Sprinter Sacre wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LottoJumbo_road/status/1000105610489286662

Hats off to George Bennett

That reaction say a lot...

irishrover99

Sprinter Sacre wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LottoJumbo_road/status/1000105610489286662

Hats off to George Bennett

Holy ****. To hear a current pro saying that means it's on now.

The only other pro I've heard call out sky is TD and that's why I like him and want him to win.

Looks like Bennett has become my second favourite rider.

Sprinter Sacre

irishrover99 wrote: »

Holy ****. To hear a current pro saying that means it's on now.

The only other pro I've heard call out sky is TD and that's why I like him and want him to win.

Looks like Bennett has become my second favourite rider.

It's telling tbh. It's like they don't give a sh*t any more about the silent code or whatever they had back in the day. I think only Bardet was somewhat critical of him when the Salbutamol thing came out, in reality you should be foaming at the mouth... I heard from Twitter that commentators in other countries dropped the Landis bomb as well as other suggestions too.

Bennett's hysterical laugh and "jesus" at the end says it all.

JimmiesRustled

Irish Raven wrote: »

who is being cheated?? us watching it on our couch?? the riders in the pro peloton id imagine know what's going on with everyone, its a small community....very very few dont have question marks on them....but that's their business....i watch it because I'm a cyclist, I race at a decent amateur level and enjoy being entertained by the best in the world!!

Ah jaysus. You race at a decent amateur level but seem clearly unaware of the problems plaguing the sport domestically. Our biggest stage race has struggled to find a major sponsor and up until the 11th hour had nothing to write home about in terms of sponsorship.

Sure why would anyone sponsor or touch the sport? I'm friendly with the MD of the company I work for and was asking if they'd be interested theoretically sponsoring an event and got the above response. But sure what difference does it make to me? I should just change the channel.

Inquitus

Weepsie wrote: »

That's not thousands of times over the limit. That's 1000mg. There's a world of difference in what I think you mean, and what you've actually said.

He was at double the limit. If he was thousands of times over the limit, he would be at 1 million mg

There's a fair amount of research the Salbutamol test is flawed anyways, if Froome is doping, it's not using a drug that doesn't enhance performance anyways. Lots of hype on this one and not a lot of substance.

coco0981

Only got to see the highlights now. Sad that a performance like that which should have had me on the edge of my seat in awe had me cursing the state of pro cycling again

I just don't believe what i just saw

Hurrache

not sane wrote: »

Did a Landis lol

Took me until the second listen to cop that. Lotto as a team obviously feel the same.

JenovaProject

I only watch the TDF,Veulta and Giro and I enjoyed seeing froome destroy todays stage and can understand the comparisons being made to dopers of the past,but should evreyones anger not be directed at the doping agencies(WADA,USADA et al)rather than froome and sky.

Surely after a performance like today,froome would be hauled in for a piss and blood test to see whats going on?

Or is it the higher ups that are keeping everything under wraps? and if it is shouldnt they be the ones that are getting all the flak rather than sky and froome.

Im only asking as a layman so take it easy on me lads,please!!!

loyatemu

just watched the highlights, what a mental stage. The climb with the gravel tracks was crazy, fair dues to the guys who brought the giant inhaler up the mountain :pac:

Leaving aside the question of whether Froome should be there at all, I'm torn on this. It's thrilling to see such a dominant performance, (and TD's dogged pursuit and Yates's disastrous collapse), but obviously also suspicious. At the same time Froome did most of the damage on one climb and then was aided by the chasing group not co-operating at all.

Dumoulin won last year without very much team assistance, his team don't seem much better this year.

nc6000

Inquitus wrote: »

Lots of hype on this one and not a lot of substance.

I thought there was too much substance, isn't that the whole problem?

Irish Raven

JimmiesRustled wrote:

Ah jaysus. You race at a decent amateur level but seem clearly unaware of the problems plaguing the sport domestically. Our biggest stage race has struggled to find a major sponsor and up until the 11th hour had nothing to write home about in terms of sponsorship.

JimmiesRustled wrote:

Sure why would anyone sponsor or touch the sport? I'm friendly with the MD of the company I work for and was asking if they'd be interested theoretically sponsoring an event and got the above response. But sure what difference does it make to me? I should just change the channel.

fair play. Your MD has painted every cyclist with the same brush. its not doping that is the main issue with the Ras. Its logistics and its costs,and the 3seconds clip it gets on the 6 o clock news. It runs on a negative return. with very little publicity. The tour got 5mins on the news this evening, the ras got 4seconds. Publicity for a company isnt there. Nothing to do really with doping!

with your comment re " problems plauging the sport domestically" are you suggesting that there is doping in our domestic amateur racing??

Hurrache

The RAS should be more vocal with the UCI then and tell them this bollox has to stop, it's hitting the little guys in the pocket if you continue to be as impotent as you are.

RobFowl

Irish Raven wrote: »

are you suggesting that there is doping in our domestic amateur racing??

But we Irish are morally and ethically superior to the rest of the world.....

CptMackey

Well after watching this stage today it's hard to watch anymore. Talk about shoving it in your face. Has the uci learned anything from previous scandals? They need to deal with his violation from last year sooner than later

RobFowl

CptMackey wrote: »

Well after watching this stage today it's hard to watch anymore. Talk about shoving it in your face. Has the uci learned anything from previous scandals? They need to deal with his violation from last year sooner than later

I'll watch sundays stage and the one into Lausanne but will give tomorrows a miss.

Kaisr Sose

Weepsie wrote: »

That's not thousands of times over the limit. That's 1000mg. There's a world of difference in what I think you mean, and what you've actually said.

He was at double the limit. If he was thousands of times over the limit, he would be at 1 million mg

Who cares? He had an adverse finding. He should have been banned or cleared long before now. ..emphasis on the two full stops in this post.

Lumen

Has Yates finished yet?

Thing is if that was a one day classics race I'd have probably believed it but not on the 3rd week of a GT . Riding into form is new speak for marginal gains. Made Valverde's return this year and form look like nothing.

Sprinter Sacre

The fact he looked like a guy from 2009 at parts of the Giro and then turns up for two stages where he buries the whole peloton, the latter of those two being the most insane individual solo win in this history of the sport...it doesn't make sense. Marginal gains, planned late peak, call it what you want but in reality it's f*cking nonsense it's absolute bullsh*t. Yates showing monstrous form was very suspect but he's gone out like a light, and the last two days have eased my suspicions as he clearly exerted too much in the two weeks and has ran out of steam. Whereas looking like a poor domestique to GT smasher for one stage to back to domestique again to going full Ricco/Landis hyperblend today makes no sense whatsoever.

godtabh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thing is if that was a one day classics race I'd have probably believed it but not on the 3rd week of a GT . Riding into form is new speak for marginal gains. Made Valverde's return this year and form look like nothing.

Hasn't riding into form always been a thing?

Lumen

Speculation is a dead end, but this wouldn't have happened if they'd have just banned him as soon as the adverse finding was in.

Then he could have spent a year doing kidney/salbutamol research run by an actual academic institution rather than a TV company, and we'd at least come out of this with some science.

MPFGLB

JenovaProject wrote: »

I only watch the TDF,Veulta and Giro and I enjoyed seeing froome destroy todays stage and can understand the comparisons being made to dopers of the past,but should evreyones anger not be directed at the doping agencies(WADA,USADA et al)rather than froome and sky.

Surely after a performance like today,froome would be hauled in for a piss and blood test to see whats going on?

Or is it the higher ups that are keeping everything under wraps? and if it is shouldnt they be the ones that are getting all the flak rather than sky and froome.

Im only asking as a layman so take it easy on me lads,please!!!

The testing isnt sophisticated enough to catch new developments in doping, like micro doping
and then there are the TUEs....medically approved medications
And use of limited substances as 'medication'
Or out of competetion use of steroids


There seems to be many ways around the system (if you have the right doctor) that fans now base their views on perforamnce alone

Lumen

MPFGLB wrote: »

There seems to be many ways around the system (if you have the right doctor) that fans now base their views on perforamnce alone

Do you mean that fans make judgements about probability of doping from performances? Or just forget about doping altogether?

coco0981

https://twitter.com/RohanDennis/status/1000071955423334401?s=19

MPFGLB

Lumen wrote: »

Do you mean that fans make judgements about probability of doping from performances? Or just forget about doping altogether?

Fans think riders dope based on performance

Irish Raven

RobFowl wrote:

But we Irish are morally and ethically superior to the rest of the world.....

please tell me more....

GT_TDI_150

Most annoying thing about yesterdays stage was the eurosport commentary and their refusal to even see the funny side of tge fans running up the finestre with the large inhaler... Dismissing it as fans stupidity....

pelevin

Whether it can be argued it's the right response or not but my inner reaction is I find it repugnant. He shouldn't be riding in the first place, he's a total hypocrite about caring about the image of the sport, his team is run be a total hypocrite, & there's no point even wondering about whether yday's ride was credible or not as he & his team don't deserve to be taken seriously. Tobh they'd already killed almost all of my interest in stage racing & I think that's probably it for me in terms of watching.

Corker1

I found that a hard watch. I only saw the highlights programme but I am incredulous. On a positive note it was a cracking course yesterday. It confirmed to me that I am going to cycle the Coll delle Finestre some day. I also thought the Eurosprort video editors' choice of music for the end credits was inspired - Johnny Cash's 'HURT'....

I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real
The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything
What have I become
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liars chair
Full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair
Beneath the stains of time
The feelings disappear
You are someone else
I am still right here
What have I become
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
If I could start again
A million miles away
I will keep myself
I would find a way

Lumen

MPFGLB wrote: »

Fans think riders dope based on performance

Right. Well that's just futile. If that attitude shapes the sport we'll end up with a spectacle like marble racing, excitable commentary on completely random unexceptional performances.

MPFGLB

Lumen wrote: »

Right. Well that's just futile. If that attitude shapes the sport we'll end up with a spectacle like marble racing, excitable commentary on completely random unexceptional performances.

Futile it might be but its my observation of the current pro cycling zeitgeist

And its the biggest threat to pro cycling

At least back in the day everyone (mostly) was dopong now who knows what the hell is going on in the margins of good and bad performance

Or at least that is the feeling among many fans

I would love to believe every Froome performance and applaud what must be the greatest cyclist ever if you believe in him and SKY (and the same for Valverde)

But its hard to make it all add up

Froome will have won 3 GTs in a row if he susrvives today
He will also have ridden the equivalent of another in SA training
Hinault & Merx maybe comparisons to draw on but they rode in the time of enhancement as we all know ....

Cappuccio and Landis did the same as Froome yesterday but we all know about their 'support'

And another reason I dont believe in Froome...He casres more about wining than he does cycling ...if he cared about cycling he would NOT be riding the Giro

pelevin

Lumen wrote: »

Right. Well that's just futile. If that attitude shapes the sport we'll end up with a spectacle like marble racing, excitable commentary on completely random unexceptional performances.

But in this specific instance, it's the performance of a rider who should in the normal run of things not be riding at all as he should be in the midst of a doping ban.

Lusk_Doyle

I'd take the point made by MPFLG a bit further and say that he cares about the riches to be gained from winning. From listening to him over the years it's clear that he has no interest in the history or any real knowledge / understanding of the sport and I'd speculate that the importance of making sporting history by himself is a side story to the cash.

Edit: Which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing but when all other information is factored in it speaks volumes.

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

Right. Well that's just futile. If that attitude shapes the sport we'll end up with a spectacle like marble racing, excitable commentary on completely random unexceptional performances.

Looks good. Anyone fancy starting a megathread on marble racing?

Idleater

Beasty wrote: »

Looks good. Anyone fancy starting a megathread on marble racing?

I'm impressed that they can find a slope long enough for a minute of marble racing in the Netherlands! Oh wait, I hope I haven't accused the sport of systemic doping or otherwise influencing results!

Lusk_Doyle

That marble racing is proper cool!

retalivity

I am already designing marble racing courses in my head

Lumen

pelevin wrote: »

But in this specific instance, it's the performance of a rider who should in the normal run of things not be riding at all as he should be in the midst of a doping ban.

I agree. But more generally, the perpetual uncertainty caused by lack of faith in anti doping controls creates a situation where people just apply subjectivity and bigotry to figure out which riders they like to think are dirty or clean. Quickstep win everything and that's believable because they're cool and Belgian. Sky win and they're dopers because they're boring and wankerish and British. Oh, except now they now proven dopers with the jiffy bags and the salbutamol, which ought to be satisfying, but somehow it just feels.... not enough. You don't gain minutes in an 80km solo breakaway with a bit of salbutamol and fluffy pillows. It requires loads of talent, or loads of drugs, or both.

I'm not speculating, I'm enumerating.

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

I agree. But more generally, the perpetual uncertainty caused by lack of faith in anti doping controls creates a situation where people just apply subjectivity and bigotry to figure out which riders they like to think are dirty or clean. Quickstep win everything and that's believable because they're cool and Belgian. Sky win and they're dopers because they're boring and wankerish and British. Oh, except now they now proven dopers with the jiffy bags and the salbutamol, which ought to be satisfying, but somehow it just feels.... not enough. You don't gain minutes in an 80km solo breakaway with a bit of salbutamol and fluffy pillows. It requires loads of talent, or loads of drugs, or both.

I'm not speculating.

Ah yeah. It’s all Brit bashing, you’re dead right. I hate the Kenyan Brits the most.

How long was Petacchi waiting to be banned after his salbutamol finding? Froome should not be riding the race. It’s that simple. It does nothing for the sport.

Beasty

Brian? wrote: »

Ah yeah. It’s all Brit bashing, you’re dead right. I hate the Kenyan Brits the most.

Even more than the the Belgian one


:pac:

Raymzor

Can anyone update me why the UCI are giving SKY sooooo much time to answer the adverse finding? It suggests to me UCI want SKY to find a ‘solution’ to avoid further tarnishing of the sport. Seems a throw back to Verb/ Lance etc

Hopefully Froome publishes his strava file for yesterday