Tommy Robinson jailed

20Cent

A best buddy of "tommy" by all accounts. You never can tell it seems. Still the muslim community should be policing themselves and ending terrorism.

'Senior member' of English Defence League jailed for sexually abusing 10-year-old girl

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/edl-english-defence-league-leigh-mcmillan-jailed-paedophile-old-bailey-a8231231.html

Omackeral

20Cent wrote: »

The threads about Nazi's though.

It’s about the rape of minors too. “Anal Defence League” was the line you trotted out should any of Tommy’s supporters end up in jail like him. Still not think that’s a bit scummy? Is it funny or witty to think of rape as a consequence for supporting someone? Doubly dirty given what the subject matter is. You standing by that? Shameful.

The_Kew_Tour

Is it OK today say both sides are shower of *****

20Cent

Omackeral wrote: »

It’s about the rape of minors too. “Anal Defence League” was the line you trotted out should any of Tommy’s supporters end up in jail like him. Still not think that’s a bit scummy? Is it funny or witty to think of rape as a consequence for supporting someone? Doubly dirty given what the subject matter is. You standing by that? Shameful.

Stole it off Frankie Boyle.
It's a play on the English Defence League.
Now they are in jail they will form the anal defence league. Thought it was funny yeah.

Omackeral

20Cent wrote: »

Stole it off Frankie Boyle.
It's a play on the English Defence League.
Now they are in jail they will form the anal defence league. Thought it was funny yeah.

Ok. I suppose if it wasn’t used in a thread where the discussion was of young girls actually being groomed and raped it would be more palatable.

Captain Obvious

Mutant z wrote: »

I see that so many of been ignoring the rape culture which goes on within a certain community but the main issue is Tommy Robinson apparently.

Read the thread title.

ohnonotgmail

Taytoland wrote: »

It's the utter hypocrisy of it and the lack of outrage. You had communists attending rallies in London last year which Jeremy Corbyn attended and the same outrage isn't applied and yet the destructive nature of communism resulted in millions of people being murdered, millions thrown into gulags in the Soviet Union.

If you wear a Swastika shirt, people are rightly shocked and appalled, if you wear a shirt with the hammer and sickle, less so. It's either the lack of education or the completely hypocrisy.

were those people trying to use mob rule to free a man who plead guilty to a criminal offence?

omta

Very interesting discussion overall about Tommy Robinson. Like many others I always thought he was an ignorant racist thug, but on seeing his talk at the Oxford Union (Very prestigious Student debating society at Oxford University - 915,000 views so far!) I was very impressed and now do not believe he is in any way racist.

(search youtube for: "tommy robinson oxford union" )

Yes, he is higly critical of many aspects of Islam, but this has zero to do with racism. He is very positive about and good friends with with many non-white people in Britain (some in his own family). The facts about his terrible harassment by MI5 and the police are terrifying (nighttime raids on his home, trawling for any infringemts to charge him with etc, being greatly pressurised into becoming an MI5 agent of influence, but refusing - to his great detriment etc...)
Every single article in the press starts with "The former leader of the EDL, Tommy Robinson..." I could understand some articles having this, but every single one?

The facts are: that he struggled greatly to keep Nazis and racists OUT of the EDL (physically fighting with one Nazi, buring a Nazi flag, and being subsequently threatened by Nazis for doing so) so it is unjust and unfair of many on this thread to tar and condemn him without hearing his words in the talk at the Oxford Union, and reading his actual story. Please people, view the whole video first, and then come back here and make any criticism of him you like.

You may be right about him being foolish for live broadcasting outside the rape gang trial, and that can be continually discussed here - the pros and cons - but please hear his personal story at the Oxford Union (before a large audience of many oponents and critics, who seemed to have far greater sympathy for him at the end) before you condemn him for what you may have read (second-hand news) in the media about him.

(search youtube for: "tommy robinson oxford union" )

FTA69

His personal story is a fictitious load of nonsense. He was a member of two fascistic organisations previous to this and now hangs around with Generation Identity, actual white supremacists. He's a far rightist who has been backed by others on the far right and has gained himself a niche. Anyone buying into this "ordinary working class lad from Luton" shtick is a fool.

The_Kew_Tour

The lads throwing Nazi salutes in Belfast yesterday are same lads who probably have Israel flag flying over their homes

JustAThought

I hear the Home Secretary -who has license to free or intervene -is either the brother or brother in law of the chief constable in the midlands -one of the areas wher so many of these rapes of children -CHILDREN RAPED - went on for YEARS.
There is something so sick and disturbing about all of this. Organised gangs of middle aged men predominately muslim raping CHILDREN and drugging them to rape them -children as young as ten and eleven - and the poluce, local authorities and child welfare agencies unwilling or unable to do anything. I watched a uk crimeline investugation on this at least fifteen years ago where distraught parents were begging the police to do something and this was long before it became a thing to complain about cultural untouchables or political policing or the refusal of police to act for fear of cries of racism. The whole revolting thing is just horrifying - along with watching accused gang rapists of children strut into court swearing and f'ing at journalists with no sign of remorse whatsoever. The children they raped are destroyed for life and the paedophile ring continues as we type.

super_furry

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The lads throwing Nazi salutes in Belfast yesterday are same lads who probably have Israel flag flying over their homes

And the same morons who love to sing about the second world war.

The_Kew_Tour

super_furry wrote: »

And the same morons who love to sing about the second world war.

Ya I don't get it. Shows lack of knowledge. It be like Irish Republican signing in good the Sash

Grayson

JustAThought wrote: »

I hear the Home Secretary -who has license to free or intervene -is either the brother or brother in law of the chief constable in the midlands -one of the areas wher so many of these rapes of children -CHILDREN RAPED - went on for YEARS.

That is the literal definition of a rumor. Have you got any links to back it up? And once you prove it actually is the case, can you show how it's relevant.

Also, do you need to type the same thing twice, and once in caps? We all know that these thing happened. It's the reason there's a trial on at the moment. A trial that Tommy/Stephen disrupted.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

FTA69 wrote: »

His personal story is a fictitious load of nonsense. He was a member of two fascistic organisations previous to this and now hangs around with Generation Identity, actual white supremacists. He's a far rightist who has been backed by others on the far right and has gained himself a niche. Anyone buying into this "ordinary working class lad from Luton" shtick is a fool.

You can be far right without being racist (that said, though, if what you say above is true, he could pick his friends a little bit more wisely)...

Grayson

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ya I don't get it. Shows lack of knowledge. It be like Irish Republican signing in good the Sash

I googled a story about the BNP getting a black DJ by accident yesterday and found this https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/7bkm9y/babes-of-the-bnp


Now it's just a couple of interviews. One certainly can't make a blanket statement about all of the EDL's membership based on this. However it's the same type of person that you're talking about.

What's the best thing about living in Britain today?
I hate Britain, and I want to move to Spain in the next couple of years, 'cause our country's not England any more. It's very rare for English people to live here any more. When I went to Lanzarote, I felt more English there than I do here, and that's no exaggeration.

But won't you then be an immigrant too?
Yeah, but the answer to that is I would go over to their country and respect their country. I wouldn't go over there and try and do suicidal bombs [sic]. The immigrants that come over to this country should be making this a good country and proud of it and helping this country, but most of them don't.

What do you think symbolises Britain best?
Well, I used to know Britain as strong, and over the past couple of years, I don't know if I've grown up, but I've seen it going soft. The memory I have is the war, and how we fighted [sic] all the people in WWI and WWII, and it makes me proud to be British.

And another

Which do you dislike more, Muslims or black people?
Muslims. I've never seen any advertisements about blacks who come here and don't work. It's more the Muslims, 'cause basically that's what I object to. My mum split up with my dad a couple of years ago, and she was going to get a flat off the council, and the first question they asked her on the form was "Are you an immigrant?" I don't agree with that, you see, so that's where it started from.

So you agree with the BNP's send-em-back policies?
Yeah.

But would it be possible to maybe come to a compromise with a noble race like the Chinese? Perhaps keep them on as a sort of servant class?
Yeah. I wouldn't mind them if they actually worked and didn't take all of our jobs, basically. I wouldn't mind them if they contributed something to this country.

What nationality would you most like to keep on in the UK?
African, because my nana's African. She was a white African from somewhere next to Cape Town. She moved back here in 1987 or something. My granddad was in the RAF over there and she came back with him.

Link I said, you can't take two interviews and say everyone is like that. But jesus those two are stupid.

ohnonotgmail

Grayson wrote: »

I googled a story about the BNP getting a black DJ by accident yesterday and found this https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/7bkm9y/babes-of-the-bnp


Now it's just a couple of interviews. One certainly can't make a blanket statement about all of the EDL's membership based on this. However it's the same type of person that you're talking about.



And another



Link I said, you can't take two interviews and say everyone is like that. But jesus those two are stupid.

I wouldn't mind them if they actually worked and didn't take all of our jobs

I'm trying to figure that one out.

FTA69

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You can be far right without being racist (that said, though, if what you say above is true, he could pick his friends a little bit more wisely)...

You can but far-rightism and xenophobia tend to go hand in hand I'm sure we can all agree. Likewise, Robinson was a member of an avowedly racist organisation for long enough and today he is proudly supporting white supremacists in Generation Identity; his last stunt in Hyde Park was in support of one of their leaders, Martin Sellner. Generation Identity members are also in constant attendance at Robinson marches (along with members of all the usual fascist parties).

The vast majority of people marching in London yesterday weren't politically-convinced racists; but there's no disguising the fact that the march did contain ideological racists and also a thuggish element who started pelting missiles at the cops.

As usual though, I can't fathom how some Irish people are so determined to support the British far-right. It's silly to say the least.

nicedryturf

Listened yesterday to the wonderful Antonia Fraser talk about her book about Catholic emancipation in Britain in the early 19th century.

There's very little new about the wave of anti-Islam fervor. Anti-papist hysteria in the 18th century was even more extreme and widespread. Just as some would equate all muslims with sharia law, for centuries Catholics were viewed as agents of Britain's eternal enemies Spain and France and, as subjects of the Pope, they were generally suspected of disloyalty. An attempt to roll back some of the more extreme anti-papist measures in 1780 led to the murderous Gordon Riots.

While some of Yaxley-Lennon's minions might actually think they're crusaders at some kind of cultural precipice, they're just another gaggle of dummies on the conveyor belt of history.

Grayson

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'm trying to figure that one out.

Just as confusing as this one

What nationality would you most like to keep on in the UK?
African, because my nana's African. She was a white African from somewhere next to Cape Town. She moved back here in 1987 or something. My granddad was in the RAF over there and she came back with him.

nationality..... African.....because of white people.

ohnonotgmail

Grayson wrote: »

Just as confusing as this one

What nationality would you most like to keep on in the UK?
African, because my nana's African. She was a white African from somewhere next to Cape Town. She moved back here in 1987 or something. My granddad was in the RAF over there and she came back with him.

nationality..... African.....because of white people.

Yeah, so africans are ok as long as they are white. Thats not a bit racist at all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

FTA69 wrote: »

You can but far-rightism and xenophobia tend to go hand in hand I'm sure we can all agree. Likewise, Robinson was a member of an avowedly racist organisation for long enough and today he is proudly supporting white supremacists in Generation Identity; his last stunt in Hyde Park was in support of one of their leaders, Martin Sellner. Generation Identity members are also in constant attendance at Robinson marches (along with members of all the usual fascist parties).

The vast majority of people marching in London yesterday weren't politically-convinced racists; but there's no disguising the fact that the march did contain ideological racists and also a thuggish element who started pelting missiles at the cops.

As usual though, I can't fathom how some Irish people are so determined to support the British far-right. It's silly to say the least.

Ah, I said racist, not xenophobic! Different things!

FTA69

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ah, I said racist, not xenophobic! Different things!

Sorry let rephrase. The far right has traditionally been associated with racism and xenophobia, is that ok?

Robinson himself has been a member of a racist party and currently supports racist organisations. Hence it's not at all out of order to point out that Robinson is a dodgy bastard.

jooksavage

FTA69 wrote: »

Sorry let rephrase. The far right has traditionally been associated with racism and xenophobia, is that ok?

Robinson himself has been a member of a racist party and currently supports racist organisations. Hence it's not at all out of order to point out that Robinson is a dodgy bastard.

He was a racist before. A lot of the people he surrounds himself with are racist and he has declined to call out racist beahaviour. But he's not a racist, I think that should be pretty clear to everyone.

jmayo

These are serious questions for those who detest Tommy Robinson.

Do you ever wonder why he is popular, and not just with knuckle dragger BNP types ?

Or do you seriously just believe more and more people are now racist and would be nazis ?

Do you ever wonder why the real far right (not just someone anti immigration as often labelled here), the nazis, the neo nazis are growing in popularity across Europe?

Do you ever wonder why Le Pen has massive support in Calais area?

For instance in the 11th constituency of the Pas-de-Calais, Le Pen won the national Assembly seat in 2017.
She won 46% of the vote.

That seat has been held since 1988 by Socialist Party and even Communist Party candidates.
Not sure if that constituency existed prior to 1988?

Now can anyone give me a reason why the National Front leader would be reversing a left wing seat so comprehensibly in the Calais area ?

Or are you just going to give us the glib answer that they are all now racists, father.

People are being pushed to the right and the right is benefiting from the fact in the likes of the UK, Corbyns Labour are shoving identity politics and ignoring the plight of what was once their support base.

Yes a lot of right wingers, religious nutjobs, gun toting eejits, tea partists voted for Trump in the US.
But he reversed Mid West, Northern states that voted overwhelmingly for Democrats down through the years and indeed helped Obama to victory twice.
Of course the simple answer is that they are all would be racists, bigots, idiots who believe the myth about making America great again.

But maybe if you stand back you might notice people, ordinary people, are getting pi**ed off and they eventually start turning to whoever they think is listening to them.


And when people speak of nazis/neo nazis and strange bedfellows today, most of those nazis/neo nazis probably haven't ever cottoned on to the fact the much vaunted ultra nazis, the SS, had an entire division of Bosnian muslims.

Odhinn

jooksavage wrote: »

He was a racist before. A lot of the people he surrounds himself with are racist and he has declined to call out racist beahaviour. But he's not a racist, I think that should be pretty clear to everyone.

As clear as mud.

Ulysses Gaze

jooksavage wrote: »

He was a racist before. A lot of the people he surrounds himself with are racist and he has declined to call out racist beahaviour. But he's not a racist, I think that should be pretty clear to everyone.

Maybe, just maybe, this is exactly what he should be doing?

FTA69

jmayo wrote: »

This is a serious question for those who detest Tommy Robinson.

Do you ever wonder why he is popular, and not just with knuckle dragger BNP types ?

Or do you seriously just believe more and more people are now racist and would be nazis ?

Do you ever wonder why the real far right, the nazis, the neo nazis are growing in popularity across Europe?

Do you ever wonder why Le Pen has massive support in Calais area?

For instance in the 11th constituency of the Pas-de-Calais, Le Pen won the national Assembly seat in 2017.
She won 46% of the vote.

That seat has been held since 1988 by Socialist Party and even Communist Party candidates.
Not sure if that constituency existed prior to 1988?

Now can anyone give me a reason why the National Front leader would be reversing a left wing seat so comprehensibly in the Calais area ?

Or are you just going to give us the glib answer that they are all now racists, father.

People are being pushed to the right and the right is benefiting from the fact in the likes of the UK, Corbyns Labour are shoving identity politics and ignoring the plight of what was once their support base.

Yes a lot of right wingers, religious nutjobs, gun toting eejits, tea partists voted for Trump in the US.
But he reversed Mid West, Northern states that voted overwhelmingly for Democrats down through the years and indeed helped Obama to victory twice.
Of course the simple answer is that they are all would be racists, bigots, idiots who believe the myth about making America great again.

But maybe if you stand back you might notice people, ordinary people, are getting pi**ed off and they eventually start turning to whoever they think is listening to them.


And when people speak of nazis/neo nazis and strange bedfellows today, most of them probably haven't ever cottoned on to the fact the much vaunted ultra nazis, the SS, had an entire division of Bosnian muslims.

I agree with nearly everything you say mate. The reality is that the broad left presided over an economic system that threw huge swathes of working class people on the srapheap - huge amounts of Front Nationale voters in France used to vote for the Communists at one stage. Where once we had decent jobs and working class areas had pride, now we have zero hours contracts and sh*t jobs in Asda. And the party of the workers in the UK for two decades told these people that that was a good thing and they should shut up and go and become a computer programmer or something. On top of that nobody in the mainstream or alternative media looks or sounds like people from these communities - they're mostly a load of smug graduates who talk down to people and haven't a f*cking clue what it's like in places like Grimsby or Grays. We also have a systematic destruction of social provisions that people relied on and now it takes a week to get a GP appointment and council housing is a thing of the past.

The reality is that there is now a massive chasm between that sort of post-industrial working class and a perceived political and media elite they feel don't represent their interests. The ironic thing is that most of them agree with 90% of Labour's ideas around things like work, housing, health, education and transport but Labour has a massive amount of ground to make up - something which they may never do in fact.

So no, I don't think those who like Robinson are politically-convinced racists; I think they're largely ordinary people who are p*ssed off. However, Robinson and his ilk don't give a f*ck about these problems and are interested solely in boosting themselves. He's totally incapable of providing any solutions or any alternatives.

Captain Obvious

jmayo wrote: »

These are serious questions for those who detest Tommy Robinson.

Do you ever wonder why he is popular, and not just with knuckle dragger BNP types ?

Or do you seriously just believe more and more people are now racist and would be nazis ?

Do you ever wonder why the real far right (not just someone anti immigration as often labelled here), the nazis, the neo nazis are growing in popularity across Europe?

Do you ever wonder why Le Pen has massive support in Calais area?

For instance in the 11th constituency of the Pas-de-Calais, Le Pen won the national Assembly seat in 2017.
She won 46% of the vote.

That seat has been held since 1988 by Socialist Party and even Communist Party candidates.
Not sure if that constituency existed prior to 1988?

Now can anyone give me a reason why the National Front leader would be reversing a left wing seat so comprehensibly in the Calais area ?

Or are you just going to give us the glib answer that they are all now racists, father.

People are being pushed to the right and the right is benefiting from the fact in the likes of the UK, Corbyns Labour are shoving identity politics and ignoring the plight of what was once their support base.

Yes a lot of right wingers, religious nutjobs, gun toting eejits, tea partists voted for Trump in the US.
But he reversed Mid West, Northern states that voted overwhelmingly for Democrats down through the years and indeed helped Obama to victory twice.
Of course the simple answer is that they are all would be racists, bigots, idiots who believe the myth about making America great again.

But maybe if you stand back you might notice people, ordinary people, are getting pi**ed off and they eventually start turning to whoever they think is listening to them.


And when people speak of nazis/neo nazis and strange bedfellows today, most of those nazis/neo nazis probably haven't ever cottoned on to the fact the much vaunted ultra nazis, the SS, had an entire division of Bosnian muslims.

They play off fear an ignorance and manipulate information to spread lies. There's no mystery to their popularity.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

FTA69 wrote: »

Sorry let rephrase. The far right has traditionally been associated with racism and xenophobia, is that ok?

Robinson himself has been a member of a racist party and currently supports racist organisations. Hence it's not at all out of order to point out that Robinson is a dodgy bastard.

I'm saying that the two - xenophia and racism - are different. You can be one without the other. And dodgy bastard is a third distinction.

FTA69

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm saying that the two - xenophia and racism - are different. You can be one without the other. And dodgy bastard is a third distinction.

Yeah you're also splitting hairs too. Racism and xenophobia are connected ideologies that can overlap; the definition of racism also encompasses nationality and ethnicity.

Robinson has been a member of and associated with organisations who espouse both.

jooksavage

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, this is exactly what he should be doing?

If a skinhead merrily sieg heiled in front of a banner bearing my name, I'd be pretty quick to condemn that. The chances of TR doing that are.... yeah....

Remember though - this totally non-racist former-racist only surrounds himself with racists and agrees with the racist stuff they say and do.

jooksavage

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm saying that the two - xenophia and racism - are different. You can be one without the other. And dodgy bastard is a third distinction.

I dont know if the guys sieg heiling behind a Free Tommy Robinson banner lose that much sleep over that distinction TBH.

ohnonotgmail

jooksavage wrote: »

I dont know if the guys sieg heiling behind a Free Tommy Robinson banner lose that much sleep over that distinction TBH.

It is a level of nuance that most of stephens supporters are incapable of.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote:

You can be far right without being racist (that said, though, if what you say above is true, he could pick his friends a little bit more wisely)...

Absolutely. I would consider myself right leaning but judging by what some consider left (or even centrist), it may seem I am far right.

jmayo

FTA69 wrote: »

I agree with nearly everything you say mate. The reality is that the broad left presided over an economic system that threw huge swathes of working class people on the srapheap - huge amounts of Front Nationale voters in France used to vote for the Communists at one stage. Where once we had decent jobs and working class areas had pride, now we have zero hours contracts and sh*t jobs in Asda. And the party of the workers in the UK for two decades told these people that that was a good thing and they should shut up and go and become a computer programmer or something. On top of that nobody in the mainstream or alternative media looks or sounds like people from these communities - they're mostly a load of smug graduates who talk down to people and haven't a f*cking clue what it's like in places like Grimsby or Grays. We also have a systematic destruction of social provisions that people relied on and now it takes a week to get a GP appointment and council housing is a thing of the past.

The reality is that there is now a massive chasm between that sort of post-industrial working class and a perceived political and media elite they feel don't represent their interests. The ironic thing is that most of them agree with 90% of Labour's ideas around things like work, housing, health, education and transport but Labour has a massive amount of ground to make up - something which they may never do in fact.

So no, I don't think those who like Robinson are politically-convinced racists; I think they're largely ordinary people who are p*ssed off.

Well at least one person sees reasons.

I would be I guess right wing economically, not anywhere near say Permabear with his privatise everything.
I don't think people should be on social welfare forever for instance.

But like you, I hate the shyte trotted out by political parties, it now seems all over the western world, about how people should train up to be part of the so called new knowledge based economy.
That is so irritating and speaking as someone qualified and working in that "knowledge economy" area, everyone is not suited to it and a lot of people do not have an often needed interest in technology.

Telling someone who has worked as a fitter, welder or miner that they should retrain as an IT progammer or systems analyst is garbage.
Yes a few might be brilliant at it, but a lot of people just are not suited.
Then what is worse there are no longer any jobs in the geographical area, the kids have no future and the only option is welfare or move to where there are jobs.

But unlike you I will also mention the social cohesion that was once in these communities that is now gone.
There are certain towns now in UK where there is huge immigrant population and it is an immigrant population that has not integrated with the native population unlike say the Irish immigrants of the past.
And yes I am talking about muslims.

Even worse we have had a litany of grooming gangs operating in communities with carte blanche freedom.
When the likes of Labour should have been shouting about these gangs and demanding something was done about them, they were actually colluding in burying the evidence and refusing to speak out.

Even worse today, the leader of labour has sanctioned public representative members who do speak out.

Then added to that you have the case where the children of immigrants are actually fighting against their own state and either carrying out terrorist atrocities at home or going off to fight their own army in other countries.
There has been a long tradition of working class kids joining the military.
How must it feel to the parents of a kid sent to Afghanistan/Iraq, not through his own choice, to see the kid of an immigrant down the road making videos of himself slaughtering prisoners, one of whom could be your son?

FTA69 wrote: »

However, Robinson and his ilk don't give a f*ck about these problems and are interested solely in boosting themselves. He's totally incapable of providing any solutions or any alternatives.

Maybe, but at least he is talking about it and highlighting issues unlike a lot more who are playing the three monkeys game.

jmayo

Captain Obvious wrote: »

They play off fear an ignorance and manipulate information to spread lies. There's no mystery to their popularity.

Lets see fear.
I often hear one side claim that the fear is overhyped.
But then again today we have France saying no major public gatherings to watch and celebrate their national team play a soccer match.
Last year I visited Italy to be greeted with armed soldiers on guard outside museums, churches, tourist centres.
It is the same in France.

I remember being able to wander in to Croke Park with a backpack, now you are advised not to bring bags and you see bags being searched.

We were told we would never see an islamist inspired terrorist attack in Ireland but one poor legal immigrant to our shores paid the ultimate price.

What information has been manipulated and who is spreading the lies.
We were told that all the migrants on boats arriving in Greece were Syrian refugees who had to be taken in.
Then it turns out maybe about 60% were actually Syrian.
Who lied about that, who was manipulating the information to suit an agenda?
We have lone wolfe attacks by migrants/"refugees" throughout Europe.
We have increase in sex crimes against women and even children by migrants/"refugees".

We have had people and "minors" camped out in Calais, attacking people using the port and trying to get onto trucks and into UK.
The reason I put minors in quotes is it has turned out a fair few of the ones claiming to be minors have subsequently been found to be overage.

You will claim that it is propaganda, but they are facts that back up my points and your sides usual tactic of engaging in whataboutery and deflection just makes it look you are trying to hide something.

You will tell us there are native rapists and child abuser aplenty in Europe.
You will tell us there is more chance one dies in traffic accident than terrorist attack.
Maybe if you just look at stats and take an actuarial view of it, it is grand out.
But why do you want to increase the possibility of rape and death ?

Captain Obvious

jmayo wrote: »

Lets see fear.
I often hear one side claim that the fear is overhyped.
But then again today we have France saying no major public gatherings to watch and celebrate their national team play a soccer match.
Last year I visited Italy to be greeted with armed soldiers on guard outside museums, churches, tourist centres.
It is the same in France.

I remember being able to wander in to Croke Park with a backpack, now you are advised not to bring bags and you see bags being searched.

We were told we would never see an islamist inspired terrorist attack in Ireland but one poor legal immigrant to our shores paid the ultimate price.

What information has been manipulated and who is spreading the lies.
We were told that all the migrants on boats arriving in Greece were Syrian refugees who had to be taken in.
Then it turns out maybe about 60% were actually Syrian.
Who lied about that, who was manipulating the information to suit an agenda?
We have lone wolfe attacks by migrants/"refugees" throughout Europe.
We have increase in sex crimes against women and even children by migrants/"refugees".

We have had people and "minors" camped out in Calais, attacking people using the port and trying to get onto trucks and into UK.
The reason I put minors in quotes is it has turned out a fair few of the ones claiming to be minors have subsequently been found to be overage.

You will claim that it is propaganda, but they are facts that back up my points and your sides usual tactic of engaging in whataboutery and deflection just makes it look you are trying to hide something.

You will tell us there are native rapists and child abuser aplenty in Europe.
You will tell us there is more chance one dies in traffic accident than terrorist attack.
Maybe if you just look at stats and take an actuarial view of it, it is grand out.
But why do you want to increase the possibility of rape and death ?

Yes, exactly like that. Thanks for the example.

FTA69

jmayo wrote: »

But like you, I hate the shyte trotted out by political parties, it now seems all over the western world, about how people should train up to be part of the so called new knowledge based economy.
That is so irritating and speaking as someone qualified and working in that "knowledge economy" area, everyone is not suited to it and a lot of people do not have an often needed interest in technology.

Telling someone who has worked as a fitter, welder or miner that they should retrain as an IT progammer or systems analyst is garbage.
Yes a few might be brilliant at it, but a lot of people just are not suited.
Then what is worse there are no longer any jobs in the geographical area, the kids have no future and the only option is welfare or move to where there are jobs.

100% Agreed. But the question is what does Robinson or UKIP or any of the other ones actually advocate on the above? They have no alternatives, no real vision and no policy of challenging the powerful and wealthy who have presided over and benefited from that system. UKIP wanted to privatise the NHS even more at one stage, Robinson is apparently a landlord doing very well for himself.

But unlike you I will also mention the social cohesion that was once in these communities that is now gone.
There are certain towns now in UK where there is huge immigrant population and it is an immigrant population that has not integrated with the native population unlike say the Irish immigrants of the past.
And yes I am talking about muslims.

There are social costs to migration. However it's also very easy to overblow these social costs and to take a general anger at the staus quo and direct it at people who are as worse off as you. There are totally legitimate concerns and criticisms that can be made on this issue; but Muslims aren't to blame for the fact there's no council housing or GP appointments or that social provisions are sh*t these days. That's as a result of a deliberate underfunding and active selling off of these public assets to people now making a bloody fortune as a result of it. Similarly things like grooming gangs etc aren't indicative of Muslims in general.

Even worse we have had a litany of grooming gangs operating in communities with carte blanche freedom.
When the likes of Labour should have been shouting about these gangs and demanding something was done about them, they were actually colluding in burying the evidence and refusing to speak out.

True. The cops have gotten away with blue murder on this as well and heads should roll. And it wasn't because of "political correctness" either, it was because they didn't give a f*ck about working class girls they wrote off as a bunch of no-hopers and knackers. There is also a minority of Pakistani men with a horrific view of women and that should be discussed without people being branded racist maniacs.

Then added to that you have the case where the children of immigrants are actually fighting against their own state and either carrying out terrorist atrocities at home or going off to fight their own army in other countries.
There has been a long tradition of working class kids joining the military.
How must it feel to the parents of a kid sent to Afghanistan/Iraq, not through his own choice, to see the kid of an immigrant down the road making videos of himself slaughtering prisoners, one of whom could be your son?

Islamic fascism should be called out, as should fascism amongst migrant groups like the Poles and the Turks. We should have no truck with Salafism and should be speaking out against its rise. That having been said, we should also be discussing why working class Brits were sent off to Iraq and Afghanistan to die for f*cking nothing and why there's nothing else in these areas except the Army.

Maybe, but at least he is talking about it and highlighting issues unlike a lot more who are playing the three monkeys game.

He's also actively pushing people into the hands of jihadis and extremists and his latest actions nearly allowed a load of nonces to claim a mistrial so he could get some social media likes.

EarlSlick

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The lads throwing Nazi salutes in Belfast yesterday are same lads who probably have Israel flag flying over their homes

In the middle of the protest and sandwiched in between the Union Jack flags was an Israeli flag. Just goes to show the level of intelligence these morons have.

thebull85

EarlSlick wrote: »

In the middle of the protest and sandwiched in between the Union Jack flags was an Israeli flag. Just goes to show the level of intelligence these morons have.

Whats your point?

FTA69

thebull85 wrote: »

Whats your point?

That people who are giving Nazi salutes are marching alongside supposed supporters of Israel is a massive contradiction and that it highlights the dopey nature of many of those attending.

In fairness, the ones in Belfast were Loyalist types who have always been prone to bigotry and stupidity anyway so probably not big news there.

thebull85

FTA69 wrote: »

That people who are giving Nazi salutes are marching alongside supposed supporters of Israel is a massive contradiction and that it highlights the dopey nature of many of those attending.

In fairness, the ones in Belfast were Loyalist types who have always been prone to bigotry and stupidity anyway so probably not big news there.

Im only looking at the Belfast protest now i wasnt aware it was taking place. Few tricolours in the mix there aswell.

Id imagine thats gonna piss a lot people off.

super_furry

thebull85 wrote: »

Im only looking at the Belfast protest now i wasnt aware it was taking place. Few tricolours in the mix there aswell.

Id imagine thats gonna piss a lot people off.

Fairly sure they're Ivory Coast flags. He has a big following in the Côte d'Ivoire does oul Tommy.

thebull85

super_furry wrote: »

Fairly sure they're Ivory Coast flags. He has a big following in the Côte d'Ivoire does oul Tommy.

You wish. Im actually quite shocked to see people flying the Irish flag and the union jack standing beside each other and not trying kill each other.

Tommy bringing people together

Omackeral

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Absolutely. I would consider myself right leaning but judging by what some consider left (or even centrist), it may seem I am far right.

This is bang on the money. It’s perfectly reasonable for people with a shoddy past or even a shady present to tell truths. You can understand, agree with or even sympathise with some of what Robinson says without absolutely subscribing to all of his ideologies. Those who are dead set against him either can’t or won’t accept that as a possibility. To them, you’re far-right, alt-right, a facist, a nazi or their favourite... a racist.

WinnyThePoo

Nope Omackeral. What you are doing there is saying ' To them, you're far right, alt-right, a facist, a nazi or their favourite ...a racist.

This is statement by you. Not anyone else in the thread. Unfortunately though considering the company Tommy has kept in the past and even now. He may not be a racist, but certainly the people he spends his time with are. The utter stupidity of himself ignoring a court order and getting jailed, is his and only his responsibility.

The outrage from his supporters is hilarious, I'm sure Tommy's delighted with support. unfortunately for the support, they wont be getting Tommy out.

FTA69

Omackeral wrote: »

This is bang on the money. It’s perfectly reasonable for people with a shoddy past or even a shady present to tell truths. You can understand, agree with or even sympathise with some of what Robinson says without absolutely subscribing to all of his ideologies. Those who are dead set against him either can’t or won’t accept that as a possibility. To them, you’re far-right, alt-right, a facist, a nazi or their favourite... a racist.

I actually don't give a toss about Robinson's criminal record for what it's worth. The fact he gets boozed up and fights people or uses a false passport etc doesn't bother me really. However, most of those adjectives that you used can be levelled at Robinson (maybe not Nazi) because he was a member and is a supporter of groups fitting that exact description.

His criticism of radical Islam and paedophiles is also self-serving, often inaccurate and he provides no alternative whatsoever bar stunts designed to boost his own profile.

Omackeral

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Nope Omackeral. What you are doing there is saying ' To them, you're far right, alt-right, a facist, a nazi or their favourite ...a racist.

This is statement by you. Not anyone else in the thread.

Never said it was. It's an opinion I've formed judging on a vast array of comments made here by numerous posters. I'm giving my own opinion, not speaking for everyone. I'm allowed to do that.

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

The outrage from his supporters is hilarious

Not saying you're inferring same here but folks agreeing with parts of what Robinson says or showing concern for some of the issues that he's trying to highlight doesn't automatically make them a supporter of his. That's another point I'd make.

Omackeral

FTA69 wrote: »

I actually don't give a toss about Robinson's criminal record for what it's worth. The fact he gets boozed up and fights people or uses a false passport etc doesn't bother me really. However, most of those adjectives that you used can be levelled at Robinson (maybe not Nazi) because he was a member and is a supporter of groups fitting that exact description.

At least you'll concede maybe not a Nazi.