Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

eastwest

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Connemara is an area of natural beauty and tourists come because of that, well I go there because of that whether for walks with family or adventure racing it is class and a greenway out there would be even better. I am afraid the rail line from Tuam to Claremorris offers no such amenity. I have had the pleasure of walking that line on numerous occasions, I actually have to do it again in December and it I know I would prefer if it was out west, it is quite boring, full of cuttings and flat. Now that is just my opinion on that line. I am sure for locals it would offer a safe place to walk or cycle but for tourists travelling to Ireland or from around Ireland other greenways have much more to offer. They might pass through but it will not be the savior some in the greenway movement would have you believe.

For most people, the priority is a safe, level.cycling and walking route. For others, the attraction is the railway heritage. Others like the solitude and the beauty of places like south sligo and east mayo. Many local users want a commuting route to work or school. And millions of European tourists love the idea of long routes where they can get away from it all and cover a lot of mileage.
Horses for courses.

ShaneC1600

eastwest wrote: »

For most people, the priority is a safe, level.cycling and walking route. For others, the attraction is the railway heritage. Others like the solitude and the beauty of places like south sligo and east mayo. Many local users want a commuting route to work or school. And millions of European tourists love the idea of long routes where they can get away from it all and cover a lot of mileage.
Horses for courses.

I agree, there is something in it for some people regardless of amenities, or location whether it is a railway or a greenway. What I am saying is, arguments against the railway saying there is better locations to spend infrastructure money than the WRC. The same argument is there against the greenway on the WRC as there are also better locations albeit not on public lands.

eastwest

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

I agree, there is something in it for some people regardless of amenities, or location whether it is a railway or a greenway. What I am saying is, arguments against the railway saying there is better locations to spend infrastructure money than the WRC. The same argument is there against the greenway on the WRC as there are also better locations albeit not on public lands.

Leaks from Dttas suggest the wrc has allegedly been blown out of the water in no uncertain terms by the long promised rail review, although a few politicians who have based their reputations on delivering a railway are now frantically lobbying to have the findings watered down by the second stage of the process. Indeed it appears they will succeed in having some vague aspirational stuff put in the final report, enough to prevent the asset being used by anybody for another decade.

ShaneC1600

eastwest wrote: »

Leaks from Dttas suggest the wrc has allegedly been blown out of the water in no uncertain terms by the long promised rail review, although a few politicians who have based their reputations on delivering a railway are now frantically lobbying to have the findings watered down by the second stage of the process. Indeed it appears they will succeed in having some vague aspirational stuff put in the final report, enough to prevent the asset being used by anybody for another decade.

No offence but without valid sources I for one will take "leaks" and "Rumor has it" as nothing more than spoof. I've seen it on certain pages of these "leaks". It could be that the people wanting a greenway will try to in-validate the conclusions of the review if they happen to be pro-railway and if the conclusions are against the opening of the railway then no harm done!
I wonder will the greenway movement accept the conclusions of the report if it deems the railway viable?

ShaneC1600

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

I wonder will the greenway movement accept the conclusions of the report if it deems the railway viable?

Lol, viable

ShaneC1600

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol, viable

Good one, you have me there

ShaneC1600

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Good one, you have me there

What response were you expecting when you suggest an extension being viable?

The current open section requires the following just to generate the equivalent of a bus full a day
- free parking
- reduced fares
- insane subvention

You reckon there's a chance the report will say going northwards to Tuam to provide a slower, more expensive service is something that is viable?

I stand by my original response

ShaneC1600

Deleted User wrote: »

What response were you expecting when you suggest an extension being viable?

The current open section requires the following just to generate the equivalent of a bus full a day
- free parking
- reduced fares
- insane subvention

You reckon there's a chance the report will say going northwards to Tuam to provide a slower, more expensive service is something that is viable?

I stand by my original response

Full bus load a day is inaccurate infromation. At least use correct information to start with.
Free parking was a good initiative and should be extended to Athenry car park. As it is a commuter train prices are now fairer when compared to similar trips elsewhere. Subvention is high but subvention is high on most poorly serviced routes. Service requires better sets and improved time tables.

I believe the route should be extended to Tuam as phase 2 yes but as one measure in a suite of improvements required to Galways infrastructure, not as a stand alone solution.

ShaneC1600

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Full bus load a day is inaccurate infromation. At least use correct information to start with.

My apologies, you are absolutely right, it doesn't generate even the equivalent of a full bus load, thanks for allowing me to clarify that inaccuracy

I believe the route should be extended to Tuam as phase 2 yes but as one measure in a suite of improvements required to Galways infrastructure, not as a stand alone solution.

What is your measure for success for a service that will require around 100 million to set up, run infrequently, be slower and more expensive than other options?

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

My apologies, you are absolutely right, it doesn't generate even the equivalent of a full bus load, thanks for allowing me to clarify that inaccuracy

it generates a number of full trains according to reliable local sources on the ground.
the line is being used and is a reasonable success.

Deleted User wrote: »

What is your measure for success for a service that will require around 100 million to set up, run infrequently, be slower and more expensive than other options?

there is nothing to say it will be slower and more expensive then other options given we don't know the costs of reopening currently, nor do we know to what standard the rebuild will be or the frequency of services that would be planned.

serfboard

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

I believe the route should be extended to Tuam

If you only extend the route to Tuam, and do not extend it to Claremorris, then it will not allow for through journeys from Castlebar/Ballina etc. Then, when it inevitably fails, you will have railway supporters on here saying that it failed because it was not extended to Claremorris.

In other words, if you're going to do it, build it to Claremorris - or don't do it at all.

ShaneC1600

Deleted User wrote: »

My apologies, you are absolutely right, it doesn't generate even the equivalent of a full bus load, thanks for allowing me to clarify that inaccuracy



What is your measure for success for a service that will require around 100 million to set up, run infrequently, be slower and more expensive than other options?

Again you shoot with blanks. False information constantly used. The line is doing well, get over it. Now, the same as many lines it requires improved train sets and improved time tables which it will not get and will loose passengers because of it.

Why will it run infrequently? If it recieves adequate funding it shouldn't run infrequently.

ShaneC1600

serfboard wrote: »

If you only extend the route to Tuam, and do not extend it to Claremorris, then it will not allow for through journeys from Castlebar/Ballina etc. Then, when it inevitably fails, you will have railway supporters on here saying that it failed because it was not extended to Claremorris.

In other words, if you're going to do it, build it to Claremorris - or don't do it at all.

Fair point, full connectivity is what is required. I am conscious of the cost of returning the line north of Tuam, I think a park and train ride from Tuam would still succeed but better going all the up.

Hotblack Desiato

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

False information constantly used. The line is doing well, get over it.

Yeah right
Would the trains have to be entirely empty before you'd deem it a failure?

ShaneC1600

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yeah right
Would the trains have to be entirely empty before you'd deem it a failure?

Silly comment. Are the trains on the Western Corridor even remotely empty, no they are not.

donvito99

Why was a line from Ennis to nowhere to Athenry prioritised ahead of the shorter stretch from M3 parkway to Navan?

That is the ideal journey with which to re-open a passenger railway as opposed to a bus service - large population centre to massive population centre. Ennis to nowhere to Athenry would be better served by a bus service which, at a fraction of the capital and ongoing costs, would likely be faster and more frequent whilst also being flexible enough to serve the centres of towns and villages and use the parallel motorway where necessary.

Del.Monte

donvito99 wrote: »

Why was a line from Ennis to nowhere to Athenry prioritised ahead of the shorter stretch from M3 parkway to Navan?

That is the ideal journey with which to re-open a passenger railway as opposed to a bus service - large population centre to massive population centre. Ennis to nowhere to Athenry would be better served by a bus service which, at a fraction of the capital and ongoing costs, would likely be faster and more frequent whilst also being flexible enough to serve the centres of towns and villages and use the parallel motorway where necessary.

Former Transport Minister Noel Dempsey and his friends have made sure the Clonsilla/M3 Parkway line will never reach Navan - remember that when considering voting FF in the impending General Election.

Hotblack Desiato

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Silly comment. Are the trains on the Western Corridor even remotely empty, no they are not.

They're hardly full either are they? 39 passengers per train on average, not even a coach load.

"doing well"? Really?

Del.Monte wrote: »

Former Transport Minister Noel Dempsey and his friends have made sure the Clonsilla/M3 Parkway line will never reach Navan - remember that when considering voting FF in the impending General Election.

That and the billions they spunked on the banks... €5Bn a year on interest alone indefinitely - think what could be done with that money. :mad:

serfboard

donvito99 wrote: »

Why was a line from Ennis to nowhere to Athenry prioritised ahead of the shorter stretch from M3 parkway to Navan?

Del.Monte wrote: »

Former Transport Minister Noel Dempsey and his friends have made sure the Clonsilla/M3 Parkway line will never reach Navan - remember that when considering voting FF in the impending General Election.

I raised the point in another thread about the line to Navan - given that the state (Noel Dempsey, Minister for Meath) guaranteed traffic numbers on the M3 motorway in order to get it built, it should be in our interest to make sure that the motorway is as busy as possible so as to reduce the subvention.

It was pointed out to me that actually, the subvention doesn't apply now (or will shortly not apply, given growth), so this excuse for not building the Navan line doesn't apply any more. And as someone else in the thread said, the bus services to Navan have improved massively (even going to 24 hours now) and the government would not be doing that if it wanted to keep motorway numbers high.

Navan would do far better on CBA/VFM metrics than the WRC.

I know this might be off-topic for this thread, but sure we've nowt else to talk about here while the tumbleweed continues to roll along the WRC!

ShaneC1600

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

They're hardly full either are they? 39 passengers per train on average, not even a coach]

Correct not even a coach load. But thats the average, only line I ever heard the average numbers for, because thats what suits the people saying it. In fairness certain daytime trains are quite but that is normal for any service and on the flip at certain times the trains are full. Galway is at a standstill, a complete overhaul is needed whatever it is.

end of the road

donvito99 wrote: »

Ennis to nowhere to Athenry would be better served by a bus service which, at a fraction of the capital and ongoing costs, would likely be faster and more frequent whilst also being flexible enough to serve the centres of towns and villages and use the parallel motorway where necessary.

would be pointless as said bus service wouldn't attract any extra patronage as those wanting bus services are already using existing ones, and rail users won't transfer.
so by replacing the train with a bus you will have killed the likely greater public transport usage the rail service seems to be bringing to the corridor.
also, the ennis to not nowhere to athenry line is only a tiny part of the galway to limerick service, which is what the line is . galway to limerick, a line which is now doing well.

Grandeeod

serfboard wrote: »

Navan would do far better on CBA/VFM metrics than the WRC.
!

Not really. The Navan line failed a CBA/VFM scenario many moons ago. While it was then a decent idea compared to the WRC, the numbers didn't stack up. An IE individual made a remark about "not touching it with a barge pole". He hasn't been heard from since.:D

The Navan route would cost a massive amount due to interference with the alignment. The WRC is still westie sexy because its all still there more or less.

ohographite

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What response were you expecting when you suggest an extension being viable?

The current open section requires the following just to generate the equivalent of a bus full a day
- free parking
- reduced fares
- insane subvention

Free parking is available in lots of stations elsewhere in Ireland, including(but not limited to) Kilcoole, Thomastown and Foxford.

Train fares are not the exact same everywhere on the rail network per km travelled.
A few years ago, a train ticket(adult day return, booked online) from Bray to Rosslare Strand(distance 130km) cost me €30.10.
A few weeks later, a train ticket(another adult day return, booked online) from Dublin Heuston to Limerick(distance 200km) cost me €26, so it was cheaper than the Bray to Rosslare Strand ticket, but took me a longer distance.

The line does require subvention, and I accept that if a line requires too much subvention, then that's a reason to close it, but I don't believe this line requires too much subvention.
This is because its patronage is barely lower than that of Ennis - Limerick, if you subtract the journeys which use both the Ennis - Limerick and Ennis - Athenry sections, from the patronage of Ennis - Limerick.
Ennis - Limerick is not usually considered a crazy service to subsidize.

donvito99

People keep saying here that the line is "doing well" but only stats that have been represented indicated that the Ennis - Athenry stretch is still only mustering 50% of the anticipated volumes, how is this "doing well"?

serfboard

donvito99 wrote: »

People keep saying here that the line is "doing well" but only stats that have been represented indicated that the Ennis - Athenry stretch is still only mustering 50% of the anticipated volumes, how is this "doing well"?

The "doing well" is in relation to how it had been doing, which was appallingly.

In fairness that was during the recession, and every mode of transport is getting more users now.

westtip

something from the archives for the weekend

Eamon O’Cuiv: In a speech at a conference about the Western Rail Corridor in May 2009. Mr O’Cuiv when Minister for Community and Gaeltacht affairs said:

“should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway?”

Holy moly where are we now!!!

serfboard

westtip wrote: »

In a speech at a conference about the Western Rail Corridor in May 2009. Mr O’Cuiv when Minister for Community and Gaeltacht affairs said:
“should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway?”

Begging the question - how many decades must a railway line be closed before it can be considered for a Greenway?

In the case of Westport, the answer was seven (1937-2011). We've a bit to go yet!

L1011

serfboard wrote: »

Begging the question - how many decades must a railway line be closed before it can be considered for a Greenway?

In the case of Westport, the answer was seven (1937-2011). We've a bit to go yet!

Three for Athlone-Mullingar; although it was a skeleton service for a further decade.

Quackster

serfboard wrote: »

If you only extend the route to Tuam, and do not extend it to Claremorris, then it will not allow for through journeys from Castlebar/Ballina etc. Then, when it inevitably fails, you will have railway supporters on here saying that it failed because it was not extended to Claremorris.

In other words, if you're going to do it, build it to Claremorris - or don't do it at all.

Would disagree with this. If the capital cost were not excessive, I think there would be some merit in reopening Tuam to Athenry given the potential demand for connectivity to services to Dublin, if not Galway or Limerick. Tuam is almost as big as Ballina after all.

I really can't see where any significant demand for services running on the Tuam to Claremorris section would come from though. Insisting on an all-or-nothing reopening of Athenry to Claremorris is just beyond silly IMO.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

Begging the question - how many decades must a railway line be closed before it can be considered for a Greenway?

In the case of Westport, the answer was seven (1937-2011). We've a bit to go yet!

SevenTY! not seven!:D yep realise it was a typo!

blackwhite

serfboard wrote: »

Begging the question - how many decades must a railway line be closed before it can be considered for a Greenway?

In the case of Westport, the answer was seven (1937-2011). We've a bit to go yet!

westtip wrote: »

SevenTY! not seven!:D yep realise it was a typo!

I don’t think it was a typo - there weren’t many railways 700 years ago



Waterford & Tramore railway closed in 1960, so just shy of 6 decades for there

westtip

blackwhite wrote: »

I don’t think it was a typo - there weren’t many railways 700 years ago



Waterford & Tramore railway closed in 1960, so just shy of 6 decades for there

speed reading indeed means you can miss things! it was correct Seven decades! well spotted. my proof reading late at night is not always at its best!;)

Carawaystick

blackwhite wrote: »

Waterford & Tramore railway closed in 1960, so just shy of 6 decades for there

Is there a Greenway on the Waterford and Tramore railway? Is that the one at Jack Meades?

blackwhite

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is there a Greenway on the Waterford and Tramore railway? Is that the one at Jack Meades?

Meant the Waterford-Dungarvan.

Posting after a day of pints can be risky

Greaney

There's a meeting regarding EU funding and the Western Rail Corridor hosted by Sinn Féin next Thursday (12th December) in the local community Hall in Athenry.

I'd love is these meetings were cross party, however, alas, this became a loaded issue last year and many politicians were bullied over it so it kinda takes guts to stand up and say 'actually, I've a different opinion' at the moment.

As a carer with my sister a member of the Wheelchair Assoc., I know that train is a lifeline for her....

https://www.facebook.com/events/2336790123301860/

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

There's a meeting regarding EU funding and the Western Rail Corridor hosted by Sinn Féin next Thursday (12th December) in the local community Hall in Athenry.
I'd love is these meetings were cross party, however, alas, this became a loaded issue last year and many politicians were bullied over it so it kinda takes guts to stand up and say 'actually, I've a different opinion' at the moment.
https://www.facebook.com/events/2336790123301860/

It's a public meeting. Anyone can attend. Nobody should feel bullied.

Greaney

Greaney wrote: »

There's a meeting regarding EU funding and the Western Rail Corridor hosted by Sinn Féin next Thursday (12th December) in the local community Hall in Athenry.

I'd love is these meetings were cross party, however, alas, this became a loaded issue last year and many politicians were bullied over it so it kinda takes guts to stand up and say 'actually, I've a different opinion' at the moment.

As a carer with my sister a member of the Wheelchair Assoc., I know that train is a lifeline for her....

https://www.facebook.com/events/2336790123301860/

A different opinion is not bullying.

The facts are that the difference of opinion is held by the vast majority of people in East Galway as shown by the fact that a number of politicians blocking the greenway were voted out in the last local elections.

I'm looking forward to this meeting on Thursday.

Can't wait to meet the only 3 members of Flag too

JCX BXC

Oh because Sinn Féin are always so scared to offer a differing opinion.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

A different opinion is not bullying.

The facts are that the difference of opinion is held by the vast majority of people in East Galway as shown by the fact that a number of politicians blocking the greenway were voted out in the last local elections.

I'm looking forward to this meeting on Thursday.

Can't wait to meet the only 3 members of Flag too

well actually, voting out politicians who happened to block a greenway that is probably unlikely to be built anyway, isn't of itself proof that the vast majority of people in east galway share the difference of opinion.
what it does show, is that those politicians in general weren't delivering enough, and were not meeting the expectations of the people they were originally elected to serve.
even if they supported the greenway, if they were crap over all and not delivering, then they probably would still be out.

Greaney

end of the road wrote: »

well actually, voting out politicians who happened to block a greenway that is probably unlikely to be built anyway, isn't of itself proof that the vast majority of people in east galway share the difference of opinion.
what it does show, is that those politicians in general weren't delivering enough, and were not meeting the expectations of the people they were originally elected to serve.
even if they supported the greenway, if they were crap over all and not delivering, then they probably would still be out.

Indeed, some councillors who supported the greenway lost their seats, some who supported the opening of the WRC kept their seats.

All I know is, when I have organised events to encourage cycling in the Athenry area, I see pity little of those who support the Quiet Man Greenway actually turn up... on bikes! Many who support cycling in the area, turn up, offer to steward, do out maps etc. and guess what??? Most support the WRC because many of us believe that the rail supports cycling. We bike & rail to commute etc.. There's a 'quiet' and large number of folk who support rail, don't underestimate it because of the clicks of a mouse.

Bums in saddles are the real figures, and not just those in lycra….

donvito99

We should not be justifying railways on the basis that it would encourage recreational cycling.

Greaney

donvito99 wrote: »

We should not be justifying railways on the basis that it would encourage recreational cycling.

Here here, most of us use it for commuting. Rail & Bike are a terrific combo.

donvito99

Greaney wrote: »

Here here, most of us use it for commuting. Rail & Bike are a terrific combo.

Nor should we be justifying railways on the basis that one existed decades ago.

Greaney

donvito99 wrote: »

Nor should we be justifying railways on the basis that one existed decades ago.

Indeed, it should be about planning for the future.

1)The commuting population that work in Galway city but live in the county is now at it's highest at 50%
2) The top 3 commuter towns in the county are Oranmore, Tuam & Athenry in that order, of course they should be linked.
3) Athenry is an Education hub with three secondary schools and students coming from all directions to attend them.
4) Athenry is also a 'disabled services' hub, as is Tuam (with an Irish Wheelchair Assoc. regional office)
5) Many post offices have closed since 'decades ago' (eg; Ballyglunin) so many of our citizens who don't/cannot drive need infrastructure to link them to vital public services
6) This issue is bigger than Galway, there are rail advocacy groups all over the Island, hoping to link Derry to Cork with all our airports along the way.

And that most certainly is worth planning for.....

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

Indeed, it should be about planning for the future.

1)The commuting population that work in Galway city but live in the county is now at it's highest at 50%
2) The top 3 commuter towns in the county are Oranmore, Tuam & Athenry in that order, of course they should be linked.
3) Athenry is an Education hub with three secondary schools and students coming from all directions to attend them.
4) Athenry is also a 'disabled services' hub, as is Tuam (with an Irish Wheelchair Assoc. regional office)
5) Many post offices have closed since 'decades ago' (eg; Ballyglunin) so many of our citizens who don't/cannot drive need infrastructure to link them to vital public services
6) This issue is bigger than Galway, there are rail advocacy groups all over the Island, hoping to link Derry to Cork with all our airports along the way.

And that most certainly is worth planning for.....

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

Muckyboots

Muckyboots wrote: »

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

I would imagine if [if] such a plan was ever to get anywhere, it would be designed and built to modern standards with bridges instead of level crossings.
It would also need to take a more direct route, the days when the station needed to go through the middle of a town are long gone, one connecting bus to the town centre & a P+R system is whats needed these days.

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

the crossings would likely be closed as part of any rebuild if a reopening of the wrc north of athenry was to take place.
it would be unlikely that there would be an actual derry to cork service, but rather the line would be a mix of regional services providing shorter journeys but which would allow connectivity between the 2 cities. presumably limerick to cork, then galway to limerick, galway to derry, or limerick to derry, perhapse limerick to sligo and then sligo to derry. who knows.
i wouldn't worry about it, whatever about reopening north of athenry i can't see any extension via sligo to derry. derry to dublin stopping at belfast would probably be the most likely for a derry direct to the republic service if any ever does happen, which i can't see it anytime soon.

ohographite

Muckyboots wrote: »

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

(I have said this before)If and when the new road is built from Tuam to Derry(N17 and N15 upgrade), it can be built straight and level.
That way a new railway can be built on the road alignment alongside the road traffic lanes, which would give a faster train journey(compared to the original railway alignment) because of the low curvature and lack of level crossings.
The railway could return briefly to the original railway alignment to run through towns like Claremorris where stations would be.

This idea could stop the opposition of the greenway on the original railway alignment, since the railway could share the other alignment with the new road instead.

Greaney

Muckyboots wrote: »

You think people would want to get a train from Derry to Cork? One that meanders through south Mayo and north Galway with over 16 road crossings in less than a 20km stretch, reducing the average speed to less than 50kmph? I think Sinn Fein should be aiming much higher than that if they think they come back from the EU with a 1/2 billion euros in their back pockets for the West of Ireland.

Well, we could ignore building any infrastructure and just drive everywhere... And look where that leads us

Furthermore, loads of people have no option but to use public transport, and many folk don't like getting the 'vomit comet' (bus)

I have no idea, how folk who are so anti-mass transit, figure how our country is going to develop, but I can tell you, our cities are bound up with traffic and not getting any less congested.

Greaney

Greaney wrote: »

Well, we could ignore building any infrastructure and just drive everywhere... And look where that leads us

Furthermore, loads of people have no option but to use public transport, and many folk don't like getting the 'vomit comet' (bus)

I have no idea, how folk who are so anti-mass transit, figure how our country is going to develop, but I can tell you, our cities are bound up with traffic and not getting any less congested.

Nobody is anti mass transit here. Most are anti waste of money though

For the money to get Athenry to Tuam up and running, you would put in bus lanes all the way from Tuam to Galway, Moycullen to Galway, Loughrea to Galway etc and move a hell of a lot more people a hell of a lot faster

As for people not wanting to use buses, Burkes alone puts that silly argument to rest with their schedule which reflects the real demand