Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

TCDStudent1

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

I was listening to the debate between Cannon and O Cuiv on GBFM yesterday regarding the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor. Ciaran Cannon mentioned previous reports and a figure of 8 to 100 against the railway. Would anyone have the name of this report?

Is it possible to listen back to this debate?

TCDStudent1

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Is it possible to listen back to this debate?

https://galwaybayfm.ie/podcasts/galway-talks-with-keith-finnegan-friday-22nd-may-2020-2-2-2-2-2-2/

From 53 minutes 20 seconds onwards

Geuze

Sam Russell wrote: »

The trains leaving Tuam are destined for Galway or Limerick?

The trains leaving Ennis are going to Tuam or Galway?

The trains going from Limerick Junction to Ennis go via Limerick and have to change ends, so why not at Athenry?

Is this thought through?

The way I might design it is as follows:

Services are

(1) Westport - DUB
(2) Ballina - GY
(3) GY - LK
(4) local stopping trains on doubled track GY to Athenry

The Westport train and the Ballina train cross in Claremorris.

So pax from both starting points can change, and go to DUB or GY.

Claremorris station to be expanded to a regional hub, with busses from Sligo and other places stopping there to transfer pax onto trains.

Two LC either side of Ballindine and LC near Milltown eliminated.

Line speed on all track other than GY-Athenry to be minimum 120kph, preferably 160kph.

Track doubled from Athenry to GY, line speeds increased to 200 kph max.

New stations at Renmore/Merlin (where?) and Roscam.

Stopping train to provide GY - Renmore - Roscam - Oranmore - Athenry all day.

Doubled track to be electrified, to prepare for Ireland 2040 plan and general pop growth, and modal switch.

Isambard

just as soon as we pay off the Covid debts perhaps.

Muckyboots

Geuze wrote: »

The way I might design it is as follows:

Services are

(1) Westport - DUB
(2) Ballina - GY
(3) GY - LK
(4) local stopping trains on doubled track GY to Athenry

The Westport train and the Ballina train cross in Claremorris.

So pax from both starting points can change, and go to DUB or GY.

Claremorris station to be expanded to a regional hub, with busses from Sligo and other places stopping there to transfer pax onto trains.

Two LC either side of Ballindine and LC near Milltown eliminated.

Line speed on all track other than GY-Athenry to be minimum 120kph, preferably 160kph.

Track doubled from Athenry to GY, line speeds increased to 200 kph max.

New stations at Renmore/Merlin (where?) and Roscam.

Stopping train to provide GY - Renmore - Roscam - Oranmore - Athenry all day.

Doubled track to be electrified, to prepare for Ireland 2040 plan and general pop growth, and modal switch.

So a train from Ballina to Galway would require two pax changes 1. at Claremorris Region Hub and 2 at Athnenry to catch the 200KPH high speed shuttle into the city?

Geuze

Muckyboots wrote: »

So a train from Ballina to Galway would require two pax changes 1. at Claremorris Region Hub and 2 at Athnenry to catch the 200KPH high speed shuttle into the city?

No, services are as follows:

Ballina to GY, no changes, train starts in Ballina, ends in GY

That train crosses the Westport-DUB train Claremorris, allowing interchange.

So a pax from Westport wanting to go to GY would have to change from DUB train onto GY train at Claremorris.



I hope I was clear, Four possible services are

(1) Westport - DUB, this is the existing service that would connect with the new WRC at Claremorris
(2) Ballina - GY, this is the current shuttle that becomes a new service from Ballina to GY city
(3) GY - LK, this is the existing WRC service
(4) local stopping trains on doubled track GY to Athenry - this is to supplement the regional trains in (2) and (3)


I am not an expert on diagramming trains, I welcome comments.

GY-DUB trains would all stop in Athenry.
GY-DUB would no longer stop in Oranmore?

Frequencies:

1tph from Ballina to GY
Maybe an extra 1tph from Tuam to GY?
Then maybe those 2tph from Tuam-Athenry-GY plus LK-GY 1tph means no need for extra local stopper GY to Athenry?

MayoForSam

Geuze wrote: »

Frequencies:

1tph from Ballina to GY

Are you expecting all those Hong Kong people that Boris invited yesterday to become citizens to somehow pitch up around Killala Bay - because that would be on the only way you could generate a business case for 1 train per hour from Ballina to Galway? Or maybe Atlantis or Tir Na Nog will suddenly reappear from the waves and demand a train service from North Connacht?

I used to commute from Tuam to Ballina every day until Covid-19 changed everything. Now I am quite happily working from home, as are many other of my colleagues. I foresee the need for long distance commuting decreasing significantly in future due to WFH suddenly becoming possible (I was even able to upgrade my broadband to a 50 meg connection recently and I'm living in the sticks).

WFH will potentially reduce the need for significant expenditure on public transport infrastructure (in low population areas) offering a much better quality of life as well as being much better for the environment. And the government won't have a penny to spend anyway on infrastructure for the next 10-15 years due to the cost of the pandemic.

Tourists will much prefer to follow the coastal route (or maybe cycle along a greenway through inland Connacht which I'm quite fond of myself?).

Isambard

the trains won't cross in Claremorris, in practice one of them will be held there whilst the other enters the section and travels there. The trains ex Westport and ex-Ballina would be travelling the same section in the same direction from Manulla Junc to Claremorrris. Single lines are quite restirctive.

TCDStudent1

MayoForSam wrote: »

Are you expecting all those Hong Kong people that Boris invited yesterday to become citizens to somehow pitch up around Killala Bay - because that would be on the only way you could generate a business case for 1 train per hour from Ballina to Galway? Or maybe Atlantis or Tir Na Nog will suddenly reappear from the waves and demand a train service from North Connacht?

I used to commute from Tuam to Ballina every day until Covid-19 changed everything. Now I am quite happily working from home, as are many other of my colleagues. I foresee the need for long distance commuting decreasing significantly in future due to WFH suddenly becoming possible (I was even able to upgrade my broadband to a 50 meg connection recently and I'm living in the sticks).

WFH will potentially reduce the need for significant expenditure on public transport infrastructure (in low population areas) offering a much better quality of life as well as being much better for the environment. And the government won't have a penny to spend anyway on infrastructure for the next 10-15 years due to the cost of the pandemic.

Tourists will much prefer to follow the coastal route (or maybe cycle along a greenway through inland Connacht which I'm quite fond of myself?).

I'm reading a lot about shared work spaces on that topic. I know I would love to go into a shared work space in my locality instead of commuting into Galway city every day.

serfboard

MayoForSam wrote: »

I used to commute from Tuam to Ballina every day until Covid-19 changed everything. Now I am quite happily working from home, as are many other of my colleagues. I foresee the need for long distance commuting decreasing significantly in future due to WFH suddenly becoming possible (I was even able to upgrade my broadband to a 50 meg connection recently and I'm living in the sticks).

WFH will potentially reduce the need for significant expenditure on public transport infrastructure (in low population areas) offering a much better quality of life as well as being much better for the environment.

Whatever imaginary demand there might have been for rail-based commuting from Tuam to Galway, which was not served by the 40 buses per day currently serving the route, will be obliterated by more WFH. Particularly now given that more and more County Galway towns and villages have fibre broadband.

ezstreet5

serfboard wrote: »

Whatever imaginary demand there might have been for rail-based commuting from Tuam to Galway, which was not served by the 40 buses per day currently serving the route, will be obliterated by more WFH. Particularly now given that more and more County Galway towns and villages have fibre broadband.

I suppose the concept is to mode-shift some of the passengers on those 40 busses per day, and more importantly, those from Tuam and Claremorris still commuting by car, to a train service. Whacky stuff!

Sligo eye

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I suppose the concept is to mode-shift some of the passengers on those 40 busses per day, and more importantly, those from Tuam and Claremorris still commuting by car, to a train service. Whacky stuff!

It’s mad Ted.

Muckyboots

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I suppose the concept is to mode-shift some of the passengers on those 40 busses per day,

Why?

Sligo eye

Muckyboots wrote: »

Why?

And don’t forget the modal shift out of private cars. Rail drives that far more than buses.

donvito99

Sligo eye wrote: »

And don’t forget the modal shift out of private cars. Rail drives that far more than buses.

Has the WRC between Ennis and Athenry actually done that though, moved people in a significant way away from cars?

Ultimately it is decent public transport - convenient, frequent, reliable, reasonably priced, fast - that will draw people from their cars, not just 'rail'.

Sligo eye

donvito99 wrote: »

Has the WRC between Ennis and Athenry actually done that though, moved people in a significant way away from cars?

Ultimately it is decent public transport - convenient, frequent, reliable, reasonably priced, fast - that will draw people from their cars, not just 'rail'.

Far more so than the anti rail propagandists will admit. The numbers on Galway-Limerick are now over 500,000 per year. What’s needed is more rolling stock and the political will to actually fund the railway properly.

Muckyboots

Sligo eye wrote: »

And don’t forget the modal shift out of private cars. Rail drives that far more than buses.

Doesn't answer my question - "Why?" would you want to "shift" some of the people using the 40 buses a day to an alternative public transport mode ?

Losty Dublin

Sligo eye wrote: »

Far more so than the anti rail propagandists will admit. The numbers on Galway-Limerick are now over 500,000 per year. What’s needed is more rolling stock and the political will to actually fund the railway properly.

Ah here, that's only 10,000 passengers a week. Next thing you'll be saying that people are actually travelling on trains between and beyond Ennis and Athenry...

http://www.vistacon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/4_Rail-Strategy.pdf

Ireland trains

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Ah here, that's only 10,000 passengers a week. Next thing you'll be saying that people are actually travelling on trains between and beyond Ennis and Athenry...

http://www.vistacon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/4_Rail-Strategy.pdf

Last time I used a Galway - Limerick service, which I boarded at Ennis at around midday on a Friday, it was over 90% full arriving into ennis and there were lots of people standing leaving ennis. Train was a 2 car 2800 DMU.
Of course this is not representative of all trains on the line.

JJJackal

Ultimately before an extended WRC is bulit surely faster trainers from galway to Dublin and galway to Limerick and a better connection to Cork are the way to go?

ezstreet5

Muckyboots wrote: »

Doesn't answer my question - "Why?" would you want to "shift" some of the people using the 40 buses a day to an alternative public transport mode ?

The benefits are:

1. To reduce journey times from Tuam to Galway, which can exceed 60 min by bus during periods of peak a.m. and p.m. travel demand.

2. To reduce reduce journey times from Tuam to Dublin by nearly a full hour in each direction compared to existing public transport options. (Not daily commuters, of course).

3. To connect Tuam to other rail-served towns within a commutable distance.

4. To enable rail-bicycle commuting from Tuam.

5. To provide a mode of transport accessible the mobility impaired.

If I was from Tuam, I would be demanding reinstatement of the service.

Losty Dublin

Ireland trains wrote: »

Last time I used a Galway - Limerick service, which I boarded at Ennis at around midday on a Friday, it was over 90% full arriving into ennis and there were lots of people standing leaving ennis. Train was a 2 car 2800 DMU.
Of course this is not representative of all trains on the line.

They're just actors who are hired by WRC. Like what they do have on the subways in Pyongyang

serfboard

Muckyboots wrote: »

"Why?" would you want to "shift" some of the people using the 40 buses a day to an alternative public transport mode ?

Because everyone knows that buses are not public transport :rolleyes:

"People in Tuam must use public transport".
"But people in Tuam are using public transport."
"Buses are not public transport".

ezstreet5

ezstreet5 wrote: »

The benefits are:

1. To reduce journey times from Tuam to Galway, which can exceed 60 min by bus during periods of peak a.m. and p.m. travel demand.

Will be addressed by the proposed bus lane going from Claregalway, all the way in the Tuam rd. The council have stated that they can do the most of it easily, but will require CPO's once they go past the junction at Flemings garage

ezstreet5 wrote: »

2. To reduce reduce journey times from Tuam to Dublin by nearly a full hour in each direction compared to existing public transport options. (Not daily commuters, of course).

First, not a high enough demand for that route for that to be a justification, second, are you honestly trying to say that a bus using the motorway from Tuam to Dublin is going to be slower than a train which will require a changeover in Athenry

ezstreet5 wrote: »

3. To connect Tuam to other rail-served towns within a commutable distance.

Where's the demand for that to justify it?

ezstreet5 wrote: »

4. To enable rail-bicycle commuting from Tuam.

Given that its possible to transport more bikes on a bus than the current trains that's just a silly justification

ezstreet5 wrote: »

5. To provide a mode of transport accessible the mobility impaired.

If I was from Tuam, I would be demanding reinstatement of the service.

There are far better transport options which will take folks point to point, I know, I used them for many years.

blackwhite

Sligo eye wrote: »

Far more so than the anti rail propagandists will admit. The numbers on Galway-Limerick are now over 500,000 per year. What’s needed is more rolling stock and the political will to actually fund the railway properly.

It’s a bit rich to call others propagandists - whilst quoting a figure that includes passengers travelling on the Athenry-Galway section to try and justify the Athenry-Ennis section.

No doubt the WRC cheerleaders would try to claim Athenry-Galway commuters as being part of both Tuam-Galway numbers AND Limerick-Galway numbers if the Tuam segment was opened :pac:

The only way to get commuters to switch to rail instead of their current options is to provide a service that at the best least takes no longer than either driving or bus.

Tuam to Athenry to Galway isn’t going to compete on journey times with a proper bus service - the same failing that hits journeys from south of Gort into Galway. Once the bus is a quicker option (as well as more flexible in terms of final destinations) then commuters aren’t going to switch to rail.

serfboard

blackwhite wrote: »

Tuam to Athenry to Galway isn’t going to compete on journey times with a proper bus service - the same failing that hits journeys from south of Gort into Galway. Once the bus is a quicker option (as well as more flexible in terms of final destinations) then commuters aren’t going to switch to rail.

No you're wrong.

People are clamouring for a public transport option that will be slower, less frequent and leave them further from their final destination becuase ...

Lord Glentoran

serfboard wrote: »

No you're wrong.

People are clamouring for a public transport option that will be slower, less frequent and leave them further from their final destination becuase ...

... it came from the imaginations of rail opponents

Geuze

Muckyboots wrote: »

Doesn't answer my question - "Why?" would you want to "shift" some of the people using the 40 buses a day to an alternative public transport mode ?

The evidence is that some commuters are more willing to switch to tram/train than to switch to bus.

Some of the pax on the bus would switch to train.

Of course, what we really want is modal shift from cars.

Geuze

blackwhite wrote: »

Tuam to Athenry to Galway isn’t going to compete on journey times with a proper bus service - the same failing that hits journeys from south of Gort into Galway. Once the bus is a quicker option (as well as more flexible in terms of final destinations) then commuters aren’t going to switch to rail.

If there was:

• single track to Athenry, 160kph max
• and double track Athenry to GY, 200 kph max
• one station near N63
• so the train from Tuam stops twice on way to GY (maybe more if stops in Oranmore, Roscam, Renmore)

what would the timings be like?

Isambard

i've said it before, but what's so special about Tuam? In a league table of cost/benefit rail improvements it would be a long way down the list. There are loads of towns of more importance that would benefit from better transport links.

Lord Glentoran

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

... it came from the imaginations of rail opponents

You mean waste opponents I'm sure because I for one am not opposed to rail, have used it a lot down through the years and am fully behind the full double tracking of all intercity routes, full electrification, increased frequency etc etc

A line serving a handful of people is a waste of time and money for all involved.

Hell even the bit thats built is a colossal waste.

Take a journey tomorrow from Athenry to Limerick. From station to station, its 1hr 6 mins by car

The same on offer on the irish rail site shows jounrey times ranging from 1hr 29 mins to 4hrs+.

Or looking at Galway to Limerick, train 1hr 54mins up to a staggering 5hrs versus the 1hr 17 mins by car. Even the Citylink bus can do it in 1hr 20 mins with the destination being Henry St in Limerick. You could even walk to the station from there, stop for a coffee along the way and still beat the train.

There are only 2 things which are keeping this section open. The massive subvention (it would be nearly cheaper to put the passengers into taxis) and free parking at some of the stations.

So no, you'll be hard pushed to get much sane support for a further waste beyond the wasteful portion of the WRC that is currently operating.

Geuze

Isambard wrote: »

i've said it before, but what's so special about Tuam? In a league table of cost/benefit rail improvements it would be a long way down the list. There are loads of towns of more importance that would benefit from better transport links.

Yes.

All services need to be made faster. More double tracking.

DUB-CORK in 2 hrs, limited stops

DUB-GY also 2 hours

Airport link very important.

CORK-LK improved, or new line.

Sligo eye

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You mean waste opponents I'm sure because I for one am not opposed to rail, have used it a lot down through the years and am fully behind the full double tracking of all intercity routes, full electrification, increased frequency etc etc

A line serving a handful of people is a waste of time and money for all involved.

Hell even the bit thats built is a colossal waste.

Take a journey tomorrow from Athenry to Limerick. From station to station, its 1hr 6 mins by car

The same on offer on the irish rail site shows jounrey times ranging from 1hr 29 mins to 4hrs+.

Or looking at Galway to Limerick, train 1hr 54mins up to a staggering 5hrs versus the 1hr 17 mins by car. Even the Citylink bus can do it in 1hr 20 mins with the destination being Henry St in Limerick. You could even walk to the station from there, stop for a coffee along the way and still beat the train.

There are only 2 things which are keeping this section open. The massive subvention (it would be nearly cheaper to put the passengers into taxis) and free parking at some of the stations.

So no, you'll be hard pushed to get much sane support for a further waste beyond the wasteful portion of the WRC that is currently operating.

I’m not sure anyone wants to put half a million people into taxis? Even if you wanted to carry four passengers per taxi you would need 125,000 taxis and that is a rather large number of cars.

In 2016 there were roughly 17,000 taxis licenced in Ireland so you would have to make those passengers wait a long time for that cab to come.

serfboard

Isambard wrote: »

what's so special about Tuam? In a league table of cost/benefit rail improvements it would be a long way down the list. There are loads of towns of more importance that would benefit from better transport links.

What's special about Tuam is that it is the only justification for a line north of Athenry. Tuam is the hill that the northern WRC dies on. And any rational individual who sees that Tuam's public transport requirements are already well catered for by 40 buses per day, would quickly come to the conclusion that providing a slower and less frequent train service would be a colossal waste of money - which is why it will not happen.

Sligo eye

serfboard wrote: »

What's special about Tuam is that it is the only justification for a line north of Athenry. Tuam is the hill that the northern WRC dies on. And any rational individual who sees that Tuam's public transport requirements are already well catered for by 40 buses per day, would quickly come to the conclusion that providing a slower and less frequent train service would be a colossal waste of money - which is why it will not happen.

That’s a big assumption to make. No one knows what the timetable for any service is yet, but pronouncements are being made by some posters that there would be a “slower” and “less frequent” service by rail. Oh and that anyone who disagrees with that straw man argument is “not rational”.

That is about as poor an argument to stop a rail service from happening as I have ever come across.

Sligo eye

Sligo eye wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone wants to put half a million people into taxis? Even if you wanted to carry four passengers per taxi you would need 125,000 taxis and that is a rather large number of cars.

In 2016 there were roughly 17,000 taxis licenced in Ireland so you would have to make those passengers wait a long time for that cab to come.

You would need half a million using the line, you don't have that, you have fudged numbers.

Nice try though

Sligo eye

Sligo eye wrote: »

That’s a big assumption to make. No one knows what the timetable for any service is yet, but pronouncements are being made by some posters that there would be a “slower” and “less frequent” service by rail. Oh and that anyone who disagrees with that straw man argument is “not rational”.

That is about as poor an argument to stop a rail service from happening as I have ever come across.

It's a single line, please explain how you can do a high frequency service with fast journey times on it.

I'll wait

serfboard

Sligo eye wrote: »

No one knows what the timetable for any service is yet, but pronouncements are being made by some posters that there would be a “slower” and “less frequent” service by rail.

Would these be the same people who also predicted that the Galway to Limerick service would be slower and less frequent than the bus?

How did disproving that work out for you?

Lord Glentoran

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a single line, please explain how you can do a high frequency service with fast journey times on it.

I'll wait

It’s a rainy day in near lockdown. I’m sure you can. Pretty sure grandstanding for an answer to the narrowed terms you have decided are the only possible parameters isn’t going to get you a replay in a hurry.

Lord Glentoran

serfboard wrote: »

Would these be the same people who also predicted that the Galway to Limerick service would be slower and less frequent than the bus?

How did disproving that work out for you?

All buses? Wow they must be all able to go faster than their scheduled times and leap over traffic with special hover stuff. You’ve converted me to hover buses Serfboard. We want hover buses!

blackwhite

Geuze wrote: »

If there was:

• single track to Athenry, 160kph max
• and double track Athenry to GY, 200 kph max
• one station near N63
• so the train from Tuam stops twice on way to GY (maybe more if stops in Oranmore, Roscam, Renmore)

what would the timings be like?

So what if we had a commuter line with higher speeds than most of the intercity lines in the country; with trains capable of safely accelerating and decelerating over the relatively short distances between the proposed stations?
You might as well ask "what if we had a TGV line?"

IMO the only way you'd ever see a viable rail line between Tuam and Galway would be a completely new alignment close to the N83 (old N17) routing.

You'd be coming into the City through much of the industrial areas that commuters from Tuam and it's hinterland are actually working in - and on top of that it would be also serving the large volume of commuters from Claregalway.

Only then might you see a meaningful shift of commuters away from buses or cars to a Tuam-Galway rail link.

Isambard

new alignment? again, there are dozens of towns that would be ahead of Tuam in the queue if ever funding for that sort of thing became available. Invest in improving the Galway to Dublin line, that would make much more sense (and help Tuam)

blackwhite

Isambard wrote: »

new alignment? again, there are dozens of towns that would be ahead of Tuam in the queue if ever funding for that sort of thing became available. Invest in improving the Galway to Dublin line, that would make much more sense (and help Tuam)

I fully agree - I'm not proposing that a new alignment actually be sought for Tuam-Galway - just pointing out that even a new alignment would be a more attractive solution than the old WRC alignment.

Sam Russell

blackwhite wrote: »

I fully agree - I'm not proposing that a new alignment actually be sought for Tuam-Galway - just pointing out that even a new alignment would be a more attractive solution than the old WRC alignment.

A new alignment would make sense if it were Luas as far as Claregalway, and let commuters find their own way there. That could then go to the actual destinations where people go - the hospitsl, the University, and the trade estates. It cold be an extension of an east west Luas.

Now that would get commuters out of their cars, leaving them in a P&R.

Isambard

Sam Russell wrote: »

A new alignment would make sense if it were Luas as far as Claregalway, and let commuters find their own way there. That could then go to the actual destinations where people go - the hospitsl, the University, and the trade estates. It cold be an extension of an east west Luas.

Now that would get commuters out of their cars, leaving them in a P&R.

In other words, invest in rail where there would be maximum benefit?

Yes, the object would be to enable journeys in and around Galway, accessible to travellers from all directions, rather than a rural line to one small town. Common sense

L1011

Sligo eye wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone wants to put half a million people into taxis? Even if you wanted to carry four passengers per taxi you would need 125,000 taxis and that is a rather large number of cars.

In 2016 there were roughly 17,000 taxis licenced in Ireland so you would have to make those passengers wait a long time for that cab to come.

Are you expecting half a million passengers a day?

Because that would be nearly four times the total network figures last year; which was the highest usage on record.

intellectual dosser

blackwhite wrote: »

So what if we had a commuter line with higher speeds than most of the intercity lines in the country; with trains capable of safely accelerating and decelerating over the relatively short distances between the proposed stations?
You might as well ask "what if we had a TGV line?"

IMO the only way you'd ever see a viable rail line between Tuam and Galway would be a completely new alignment close to the N83 (old N17) routing.

You'd be coming into the City through much of the industrial areas that commuters from Tuam and it's hinterland are actually working in - and on top of that it would be also serving the large volume of commuters from Claregalway.

Only then might you see a meaningful shift of commuters away from buses or cars to a Tuam-Galway rail link.

You're planning around the current business locations, where do future business' locate? Where do future workers live?

Lets invest in housing stock in Tuam, Athenry and in between where its affordable, lets invest in business parks in those towns, for example the area zoned near Athenry train station or in Oranmore with the train providing reasonable connectivity between all locations as well as Galway, Dublin and Limerick.

Alas, no. Lets do what we've always done in this country. Lets have the business' locate wherever they like and let the property developers throw up houses where they want. Lets wait for towns and business locations to be bursting at the seams with congestion before we consider how we solve those problems.

We need to think bigger, and we shouldn't be afraid to invest in the future rather than just the present.

donvito99

intellectual dosser wrote: »

You're planning around the current business locations, where do future business' locate? Where do future workers live?

I'm sure the people of Navan will be delighted to learn that the needs of a hypothetical, future commuting public are to be prioritised over their actual commuting misery.

Lets invest in housing stock in Tuam, Athenry and in between where its affordable, lets invest in business parks in those towns, for example the area zoned near Athenry train station or in Oranmore with the train providing reasonable connectivity between all locations as well as Galway, Dublin and Limerick.

Now we're just building to justify a railway. I don't understand why we should build housing in far away towns such that people have to commute long distances by train, no matter how cheap the land may be.

Alas, no. Lets do what we've always done in this country. Lets have the business' locate wherever they like and let the property developers throw up houses where they want.

That's basically what you're proposing, businesses and housing estates all over the shop... except that they're on a meandering, single line railway.

Lets wait for towns and business locations to be bursting at the seams with congestion before we consider how we solve those problems.

Investing in proper public transportation in Galway city would do a great deal more to solve congestion than railway induced sprawl on the WRC will, and may even allow Galway to grow as a counterbalance to Dublin and generate much more economic activity in the West overall.

We need to think bigger, and we shouldn't be afraid to invest in the future rather than just the present.

The reason the WRC has not been completed is not because people are scared.

ezstreet5

Deleted User wrote: »

Will be addressed by the proposed bus lane going from Claregalway, all the way in the Tuam rd. The council have stated that they can do the most of it easily, but will require CPO's once they go past the junction at Flemings garage

Can your provide the status of this project, if there is a project at all?

Deleted User wrote: »

First, not a high enough demand for that route for that to be a justification, second, are you honestly trying to say that a bus using the motorway from Tuam to Dublin is going to be slower than a train which will require a changeover in Athenry

That's just conjecture. And yes, I am saying that you will have shorter travel times from Tuam to Dubln via Atherny by rail, compred to a bus from Tuam to Galway to Dublin.

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's the demand for that to justify it?

Probably in Burke's buses, or cars, in Claregalway congestion, or stuck on the Tuam Road in front of Rocca Tiles.

Deleted User wrote: »

Given that its possible to transport more bikes on a bus than the current trains that's just a silly justification

I doubt that is happening at all.

Deleted User wrote: »

There are far better transport options which will take folks point to point, I know, I used them for many years.

Please share, because a disabled family member living under my roof is only capable of using the train.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Will be addressed by the proposed bus lane going from Claregalway, all the way in the Tuam rd. The council have stated that they can do the most of it easily, but will require CPO's once they go past the junction at Flemings garage

only in the short term really i would expect.
and unless it's a gold plated bus lane then really a CPO for it is something i will believe when i actually hear it has happened. it won't be cheap either i'd imagine.
and all for what, a bit of paint on a road i'd imagine.

Deleted User wrote: »

First, not a high enough demand for that route for that to be a justification, second, are you honestly trying to say that a bus using the motorway from Tuam to Dublin is going to be slower than a train which will require a changeover in Athenry

of course there isn't a demand for it as it doesn't exist as an option.
certainly with a properly invested and up to scratch rail such a journey time would be competitive i would expect, even potentially faster then the motor way when eventually it is clogged up.

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's the demand for that to justify it?

taking the car, i would expect.

Deleted User wrote: »

Given that its possible to transport more bikes on a bus than the current trains that's just a silly justification

it's likely one of the suburban type units would be used to operate the rail service so taking a few bikes shouldn't b a problem at least if they are fold up.

Deleted User wrote: »

There are far better transport options which will take folks point to point, I know, I used them for many years.

it will depend on the individual and their circumstances.
it's not a guarantee that there are better transport options out there.