Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

end of the road

blackwhite wrote: »

It’s a bit rich to call others propagandists - whilst quoting a figure that includes passengers travelling on the Athenry-Galway section to try and justify the Athenry-Ennis section.

No doubt the WRC cheerleaders would try to claim Athenry-Galway commuters as being part of both Tuam-Galway numbers AND Limerick-Galway numbers if the Tuam segment was opened

The only way to get commuters to switch to rail instead of their current options is to provide a service that at the best least takes no longer than either driving or bus.

Tuam to Athenry to Galway isn’t going to compete on journey times with a proper bus service - the same failing that hits journeys from south of Gort into Galway. Once the bus is a quicker option (as well as more flexible in terms of final destinations) then commuters aren’t going to switch to rail.

no as without those trains there would be no train option for the people traveling from athenry to galway at those times most likely.
i would suspect that it's because of the wrc and it's services that these people have services at those times as i would suspect that there would be no more services between galway and athenry apart from existing galway-dublin had the wrc not been reopened.

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean waste opponents I'm sure because I for one am not opposed to rail, have used it a lot down through the years and am fully behind the full double tracking of all intercity routes, full electrification, increased frequency etc etc

A line serving a handful of people is a waste of time and money for all involved.

Hell even the bit thats built is a colossal waste.

Take a journey tomorrow from Athenry to Limerick. From station to station, its 1hr 6 mins by car

The same on offer on the irish rail site shows jounrey times ranging from 1hr 29 mins to 4hrs+.

Or looking at Galway to Limerick, train 1hr 54mins up to a staggering 5hrs versus the 1hr 17 mins by car. Even the Citylink bus can do it in 1hr 20 mins with the destination being Henry St in Limerick. You could even walk to the station from there, stop for a coffee along the way and still beat the train.

There are only 2 things which are keeping this section open. The massive subvention (it would be nearly cheaper to put the passengers into taxis) and free parking at some of the stations.

So no, you'll be hard pushed to get much sane support for a further waste beyond the wasteful portion of the WRC that is currently operating.

the only thing keeping any railway in ireland open is the subvention so subvention is meaningless.
the only way one is taking 5 hours to do galway to limerick is by going the long way around via athlone and portarlington and limerick junction.

ezstreet5

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Can your provide the status of this project, if there is a project at all?

Sure, design was tendered in 2014 and completed in 2015, and went to NTA for funding in 2016 I think it was, and is part of the 10 year GTS. Its still being worked on (doing what I don't know) but no further info beyond that as of yet.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

That's just conjecture. And yes, I am saying that you will have shorter travel times from Tuam to Dubln via Atherny by rail, compred to a bus from Tuam to Galway to Dublin.

Why on earth would you go to Galway on the way to Dublin???

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I doubt that is happening at all.

Well one thing you can be sure of, there's more bicycles going between Galway and Tuam than trains

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Please share, because a disabled family member living under my roof is only capable of using the train.

How do they get from the house to the train on a wet and windy day in November?

ezstreet5

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, design was tendered in 2014 and completed in 2015, and went to NTA for funding in 2016 I think it was, and is part of the 10 year GTS. Its still being worked on (doing what I don't know) but no further info beyond that as of yet.

I'm not seeing an active project here. Nor am I disparaging it. I think a bus lane from Claregalway to Galway (as far as you can get it), is a fantastic idea, but I hope not the "ultimate solution."

Deleted User wrote: »

Why on earth would you go to Galway on the way to Dublin???

How would you go, if you lived in Tuam and did not have a car?

Deleted User wrote: »

Well one thing you can be sure of, there's more bicycles going between Galway and Tuam than trains

If you need that win, you can have it.

Deleted User wrote: »

How do they get from the house to the train on a wet and windy day in November?

We drive her to the station on those days. Those are the same days where a greenway would see no use whatsoever.

blackwhite

intellectual dosser wrote: »

You're planning around the current business locations, where do future business' locate? Where do future workers live?

Lets invest in housing stock in Tuam, Athenry and in between where its affordable, lets invest in business parks in those towns, for example the area zoned near Athenry train station or in Oranmore with the train providing reasonable connectivity between all locations as well as Galway, Dublin and Limerick.

Alas, no. Lets do what we've always done in this country. Lets have the business' locate wherever they like and let the property developers throw up houses where they want. Lets wait for towns and business locations to be bursting at the seams with congestion before we consider how we solve those problems.

We need to think bigger, and we shouldn't be afraid to invest in the future rather than just the present.

So we build houses and industrial parks in Tuam - and then put a train line where the supposed business case is commuters from Tuam to Galway?

serfboard

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, design was tendered in 2014 and completed in 2015, and went to NTA for funding in 2016 I think it was, and is part of the 10 year GTS. Its still being worked on (doing what I don't know) but no further info beyond that as of yet.

Two problems in relation to it are:

1. The necessity to apply for CPOs past Fleming's garage.
2. Cutting off the right-turn from the Tuam road northbound onto Parkmore. A substantial amount of traffic uses this turn.

In 2017, Sean Canney said this:

Sean Canney wrote:

the long awaited bus lane from Claregalway to the city outskirts ... will be brought on line in the next year.

But like Sean Canney's rail review, it seems to have vanished.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why on earth would you go to Galway on the way to Dublin???

The only way to travel by public transport from Tuam to Dublin is via Galway.

There used to be a twice-weekly (Fridays and Sundays) bus service between Tuam and Athlone that would connect to Dublin services, but AFAIK that no longer runs.

The GoBus Ballina to Galway service uses the motorway, and the very obvious missing link there is a combined Motorway Service Station / P&R at Rathmorissey, that would allow people coming from both the M17 and M18 to transfer to Dublin-bound services.

But in another example of Irish "planning", the Service Station has been moved further towards the city along the M6, meaning a P&R at Rathmorissey will not be built.

Muckyboots

serfboard wrote: »

But in another example of Irish "planning", the Service Station has been moved further towards the city along the M6, meaning a P&R at Rathmorissey will not be built.

This so so true. Putting a service station, bus hub, park & ride facility at the Rathmorissey junction could do more to remove cars from Galway city than any other singular action, including a rail service from Tuam. Just fifteen minutes by car to Rathmorissey then choose your public transport option. Stop off for Dublin Limerick and Cork express buses, shuttles to Athenry train station and Galway City.

Sligo eye

Muckyboots wrote: »

This so so true. Putting a service station, bus hub, park & ride facility at the Rathmorissey junction could do more to remove cars from Galway city than any other singular action, including a rail service from Tuam. Just fifteen minutes by car to Rathmorissey then choose your public transport option. Stop off for Dublin Limerick and Cork express buses, shuttles to Athenry train station and Galway City.

It’s all about keeping the cars with you guys.

Muckyboots

Sligo eye wrote: »

It’s all about keeping the cars with you guys.

Sure we'll need them to drive to the train stations too, in the unlikely event services resume after a 45 year hiatus .

Isambard

Sligo eye wrote: »

It’s all about keeping the cars with you guys.

with the trend towards EVs, is that a problem?

Rail is rather an outmoded form of transport, technology will show a better way to do travel in the not so distant future that doesn't rely on rails to guide it.

end of the road

Isambard wrote: »

with the trend towards EVs, is that a problem?

yes as they still require a disproportionate amount of space to accommodate them v their size.

Isambard wrote: »

Rail is rather an outmoded form of transport, technology will show a better way to do travel in the not so distant future that doesn't rely on rails to guide it.

rail is as modern as it gets.
whatever that will replace it will have some of the principals, something else will do the guiding but the capacity will be the same or greater yet the space used will be similar or lower.

donvito99

Sligo eye wrote: »

It’s all about keeping the cars with you guys.

What a fantastically silly post.

People are proposing public transport solutions that might actually be more useful to more people - but if it doesn't involve the re-opening of a railway it is immediately shot down.

intellectual dosser

donvito99 wrote: »

I'm sure the people of Navan will be delighted to learn that the needs of a hypothetical, future commuting public are to be prioritised over their actual commuting misery.



Now we're just building to justify a railway. I don't understand why we should build housing in far away towns such that people have to commute long distances by train, no matter how cheap the land may be.



That's basically what you're proposing, businesses and housing estates all over the shop... except that they're on a meandering, single line railway.



Investing in proper public transportation in Galway city would do a great deal more to solve congestion than railway induced sprawl on the WRC will, and may even allow Galway to grow as a counterbalance to Dublin and generate much more economic activity in the West overall.



The reason the WRC has not been completed is not because people are scared.

I don't think anybody here promoting the WRC has advocated it be done at the expense of Navan, so I don't understand why Navan comes up. Similarly, to address the Galway part of your post, we're not saying the WRC is a silver bullet and that no other infrastructure projects or services be implemented to address the chronic issues in Galway City.

Athenry to Tuam doesnt meander, and given that all parties (including the actual authorities outside of this thread) are keen to double-track Galway to Athenry then only the ~20km from Athenry to Tuam would be single track, surely adequate to work with.

I'm suggesting that we stop letting the tail wag the dog and come up with a concrete strategy for planning. Housing, Investment, Transport are all problems for which the solutions are interconnected.

blackwhite wrote: »

So we build houses and industrial parks in Tuam - and then put a train line where the supposed business case is commuters from Tuam to Galway?

I don't know exactly what you mean here, but I suspect you're looking to bring it around to a new alignment from Tuam serving Parkmore and Ballybane business parks. By all means have at it, it would probably cost 20x what the WRC to Tuam would cost, more if you'd have to tunnel under the city to connect it to Ceannt. I would be very concerned about the growth potential of those two business centers.

Isambard

end of the road wrote: »

yes as they still require a disproportionate amount of space to accommodate them v their size.



rail is as modern as it gets.
whatever that will replace it will have some of the principals, something else will do the guiding but the capacity will be the same or greater yet the space used will be similar or lower.

what extra space does an EV take up?

ShaneC1600

Muckyboots wrote: »

This so so true. Putting a service station, bus hub, park & ride facility at the Rathmorissey junction could do more to remove cars from Galway city than any other singular action, including a rail service from Tuam. Just fifteen minutes by car to Rathmorissey then choose your public transport option. Stop off for Dublin Limerick and Cork express buses, shuttles to Athenry train station and Galway City.

Would the P & R not be better located beside the railway and the motorway in Athenry or Oranmore? Then people travelling along the motorway or heavy rail from Dublin, Limerick or Mayo could then use the transport mode that best suited them to continue their travel.
It's like what your saying only I'm including the heavy railway into the location of the P & R scenario.

end of the road

Isambard wrote: »

what extra space does an EV take up?

not extra space, the actual existing space and the growth of space capacity to cater to growth of vehicles.

Muckyboots

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Would the P & R not be better located beside the railway and the motorway in Athenry or Oranmore? Then people travelling along the motorway or heavy rail from Dublin, Limerick or Mayo could then use the transport mode that best suited them to continue their travel.
It's like what your saying only I'm including the heavy railway into the location of the P & R scenario.

Rathmorrisey roundabout is already an established junction for Galway bound traffic and you couldn't drag Dublin, Cork & Limerick buses into Athenry or Oranmore town centres anyway. The rail park & ride offering will still be there for people who want it.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

Rathmorrisey roundabout is already an established junction for Galway bound traffic and you couldn't drag Dublin, Cork & Limerick buses into Athenry or Oranmore town centres anyway. The rail park & ride offering will still be there for people who want it.

I advocated a long time ago the critical strategic importance of that interchange of the North South/East West motorway and the nearby closed Galway Airport. There should be a bus interchange at that location, it should have been built into the design. The closed airport near to that junction could be used to relocate Galway University Hospital, and free up the footprint of land the hospital sits on in the city centre, but that is a whole different can of worms. BTW note I say relocation of the hospital not closing the hospital in the city centre.

Sligo eye

westtip wrote: »

I advocated a long time ago the critical strategic importance of that interchange of the North South/East West motorway and the nearby closed Galway Airport. There should be a bus interchange at that location, it should have been built into the design. The closed airport near to that junction could be used to relocate Galway University Hospital, and free up the footprint of land the hospital sits on in the city centre, but that is a whole different can of worms. BTW note I say relocation of the hospital not closing the hospital in the city centre.

Going against all trends in urban planning. That sort of suggestion would have been popular in the 70s and 80s but to move the hospital to an out of town location served only by cars would not be acceptable to planners these days.

ezstreet5

westtip wrote: »

I advocated a long time ago the critical strategic importance of that interchange of the North South/East West motorway and the nearby closed Galway Airport. There should be a bus interchange at that location, it should have been built into the design. The closed airport near to that junction could be used to relocate Galway University Hospital, and free up the footprint of land the hospital sits on in the city centre, but that is a whole different can of worms. BTW note I say relocation of the hospital not closing the hospital in the city centre.

I don't get this post either. The Rathmorrissey junction is probably five miles from Galway Airport. There is no proposal or need to relocate GUH, and there is no want of land at MPUH, which has been the focus for a new elective hospital and other services.

westtip

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I don't get this post either. The Rathmorrissey junction is probably five miles from Galway Airport. There is no proposal or need to relocate GUH, and there is no want of land at MPUH, which has been the focus for a new elective hospital and other services.

OK here was my thinking, five miles from the junction is nothing in terms of ambulance travel time from any point north/south on the new motorway. A lot of traffic comes into Galway creating congestion due to the hospital being in its current location; relocating the hospital to a brown field site the size of the airport would allow for adequate staff accommodation and family accommodation for critically ill patients, a 247 regular shuttle service to the hospital from city centre could be applied. Re the bus interchange at that junction it just makes transport planning sense; if all buses had to have a 2 minute pull in halt it would make sense for passenger interchange north south and east west and for passenger collection and drop off. Also park and ride into city centre;

It would release a huge landbank in the city centre for retail and student accommodation, mind you the retail might create more traffic problems! before someone jumps in and says it.

Anyway its just a thought, not much to do with the Greenway or railway debate so in truth probably belongs elsewhere...

ezstreet5

serfboard wrote: »

Two problems in relation to it are:

1. The necessity to apply for CPOs past Fleming's garage.
2. Cutting off the right-turn from the Tuam road northbound onto Parkmore. A substantial amount of traffic uses this turn.

It was a 25 minute outbound drive from Liosban to Bóthar Na dTreabh (about 1 km) this afternoon at 14:45. Still partial lockdown with no school and no tourists. At that speed it was easy to observe sad faces pressed against the windows of the inbound Burke's Bus, and also that there simply isn't the real estate for bus lanes between Flemming's and the Bohermore Roundabout. From Bóthar Na dTreabh to the Castlegar Church would also be a challenge. So I would question the feasibility of the bus lane overall, and whether it is a solution for all of the 2,000 passengers/day using Burke's Bus already, in addition to those who are still driving in.

donvito99

ezstreet5 wrote: »

It was a 25 minute outbound drive from Liosban to Bóthar Na dTreabh (about 1 km) this afternoon at 14:45. Still partial lockdown with no school and no tourists. At that speed it was easy to observe sad faces pressed against the windows of the inbound Burke's Bus, and also that there simply isn't the real estate for bus lanes between Flemming's and the Bohermore Roundabout. From Bóthar Na dTreabh to the Castlegar Church would also be a challenge. So I would question the feasibility of the bus lane overall, and whether it is a solution for all of the 2,000 passengers/day using Burke's Bus already, in addition to those who are still driving in.

If widening isn't feasible, then the bus gate/limited private vehicle access measures proposed for Dublin via Bus Connects will do the job.

ShaneC1600

ezstreet5 wrote: »

It was a 25 minute outbound drive from Liosban to Bóthar Na dTreabh (about 1 km) this afternoon at 14:45. Still partial lockdown with no school and no tourists. At that speed it was easy to observe sad faces pressed against the windows of the inbound Burke's Bus, and also that there simply isn't the real estate for bus lanes between Flemming's and the Bohermore Roundabout. From Bóthar Na dTreabh to the Castlegar Church would also be a challenge. So I would question the feasibility of the bus lane overall, and whether it is a solution for all of the 2,000 passengers/day using Burke's Bus already, in addition to those who are still driving in.

Any costing for that project? Why would there be a need for that bus lane when we keep being told that there is no requirement for opening the railway from Tuam?

donvito99

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Any costing for that project? Why would there be a need for that bus lane when we keep being told that there is no requirement for opening the railway from Tuam?

Because a bus lane will benefit lots and lots of people whereas a railway to Tuam ostensibly only serves people in the vicinity of Tuam.

ezstreet5

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Any costing for that project? Why would there be a need for that bus lane when we keep being told that there is no requirement for opening the railway from Tuam?

Not that I've seen; maybe someone can comment. Regarding cost, I don't believe 100 million (if the WRC extension to Tuam costs that) is "excessive" and "hugely wasteful." I also believe that those making that particular argument are not being entirely genuine, as there are many other proposed programmes, plans, and projects that would be eschewed ahead of rail-to-Tuam that would save our decrepit State those much needed funds (and I never hear a peep about any of those here from the cost-cutters).

Personally, I believe that bus plus rail is the solution. That is, we should develop the bus lane along the Tuam Road as far in as feasible. Obviously, that won't be to Eyre Square. And we need the rail line to supplement the travel demand that isn't Parkmore or Wellpark or Liosbán, and if that costs 200 million, then do it. I can't tolerate politicians that would oppose that "investment" in East Galway. After all, 7.2 million has apparently been allocated for a pedestrian bridge across the Corrib at the cathedral.

ShaneC1600

donvito99 wrote: »

Because a bus lane will benefit lots and lots of people whereas a railway to Tuam ostensibly only serves people in the vicinity of Tuam.

Are you sure it benefits lots and lots? I recon if the railway went went to Claremorris it would serve lots and lots too!!

donvito99

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Are you sure it benefits lots and lots? I recon if the railway went went to Claremorris it would serve lots and lots too!!

It would seem to me to be obvious that a single track railway will serve (infrequently) the (very few) towns that happen to lie on the railway compared to a bus lane provides for bus services serving any town with a road, be it large or small. Why you'd prioritise a railway in a vast, low density rural region over a piece of infrastructure which could benefit much more of the region beats me.

An East - West dedicated bus corridor, from Knocknacarra via UHG, UCG, the City Centre/Ceannt Station, Lismore, Mervue, Ballybrit, Briarhill, Parkmore and out to some sort of P&R at the Airport would seem to me to be an investment that ranks far higher than a heritage railway to Ballyglunin. It would provide for more direct public transport services (by bus, less likely to have to change to a train) to the places people would seem to want to go, judging by Galway's outrageous congestion.

Greaney

westtip wrote: »

The closed airport near to that junction could be used to relocate Galway University Hospital, and free up the footprint of land the hospital sits on in the city center, but that is a whole different can of worms. BTW note I say relocation of the hospital not closing the hospital in the city center.

Judas Iscariot!!! this has got to be the most Demented traffic solution I've read on this thread so far!! Clearly written by someone who doesn't live in Galway city or county!! Has no idea of cycling advocacy priorities. I thought it would have been withdrawn after it was written it was so nuts. Has anyone any idea of the thousands of people using that hospital every day use public transport?? It's a teaching hospital with classrooms and a library linked to the university where the students, lecturers and staff go between both campuses every day!!! And as for the alternative location, you'd think Connemara didn't exist!!!

The cost!! The cost!!! Investment in public transport would be cheaper. Re-opening the Western rail corridor, in it's entirety would be cheaper!! Re-opening the line to Clifden along with the Western rail corridor would be cheaper.

And it's all still about owning a car!! It's all about the cars, still!! At this rate every household is going to need more than two cars, and frankly more than three parents to drive everyone everywhere then need to go!!

Sligo eye

Greaney wrote: »

Judas Iscariot!!! this has got to be the most Demented traffic solution I've read on this thread so far!! Clearly written by someone who doesn't live in Galway city or county!! Has no idea of cycling advocacy priorities. I thought it would have been withdrawn after it was written it was so nuts. Has anyone any idea of the thousands of people using that hospital every day use public transport?? It's a teaching hospital with classrooms and a library linked to the university where the students, lecturers and staff go between both campuses every day!!! And as for the alternative location, you'd think Connemara didn't exist!!!

The cost!! The cost!!! Investment in public transport would be cheaper. Re-opening the Western rail corridor, in it's entirety would be cheaper!! Re-opening the line to Clifden along with the Western rail corridor would be cheaper.

And it's all still about owning a car!! It's all about the cars, still!! At this rate every household is going to need more than two cars, and frankly more than three parents to drive everyone everywhere then need to go!!

Yes. It’s not at all about the bikes. Originally Westtip wanted a gas main and fibre on the line. Then he met eastwest and they came up with the cycle route strategy to try and stop the railway. Unfortunately for them their social media strategy backfired somewhat and ended up galvanising people to back the railway thanks to their tactics.

Greaney

Greaney wrote: »

Judas Iscariot!!! this has got to be the most Demented traffic solution I've read on this thread so far!! Clearly written by someone who doesn't live in Galway city or county!! Has no idea of cycling advocacy priorities. I thought it would have been withdrawn after it was written it was so nuts. Has anyone any idea of the thousands of people using that hospital every day use public transport?? It's a teaching hospital with classrooms and a library linked to the university where the students, lecturers and staff go between both campuses every day!!! And as for the alternative location, you'd think Connemara didn't exist!!!

The cost!! The cost!!! Investment in public transport would be cheaper. Re-opening the Western rail corridor, in it's entirety would be cheaper!! Re-opening the line to Clifden along with the Western rail corridor would be cheaper.

And it's all still about owning a car!! It's all about the cars, still!! At this rate every household is going to need more than two cars, and frankly more than three parents to drive everyone everywhere then need to go!!

Drama much?

JJJackal

Greaney wrote: »

Judas Iscariot!!! this has got to be the most Demented traffic solution I've read on this thread so far!! Clearly written by someone who doesn't live in Galway city or county!! Has no idea of cycling advocacy priorities. I thought it would have been withdrawn after it was written it was so nuts. Has anyone any idea of the thousands of people using that hospital every day use public transport?? It's a teaching hospital with classrooms and a library linked to the university where the students, lecturers and staff go between both campuses every day!!! And as for the alternative location, you'd think Connemara didn't exist!!!

The cost!! The cost!!! Investment in public transport would be cheaper. Re-opening the Western rail corridor, in it's entirety would be cheaper!! Re-opening the line to Clifden along with the Western rail corridor would be cheaper.

And it's all still about owning a car!! It's all about the cars, still!! At this rate every household is going to need more than two cars, and frankly more than three parents to drive everyone everywhere then need to go!!

I wouldnt build GUH in the airport. That actually doesnt make sense when you have Merlin Park Campus available. GUH would benefit from relocation to Merlin for many reasons esp if the new ring road is built. With the new ring road and GUH in Merlin it would probably be quicker or as quick to get from Connemara to the "new" Galway Hospital.

Merlin (with the new proposed ring road built) has many advantages over GUH

1) easy access from all over Galway - adjacent easy access to 2 motorways and a ring road - the train doesn't pass to far from Merlin Park either - create a new stop in Renmore or Doughiska - needs thought obviously. Link with buses...
2) very large site so plenty of room for expansion
3) reduce city centre traffic substantially
4) parking
5) new would potentially have space...
6) old site could be used for offices, housing, expand university, commercial etc etc
7) potential to merge with other hospitals like Portuncula - likely not feasible to merge into current GUH due to limited space on site and poor access
8) re the university - you build a medical wing in Merlin. Students already do placements there; that link alone should not be reason to prevent building in Merlin.

edit you say these things would be cheaper eg western rail but a new hospital on a site like Merlin could be tailored to the needs of the public. Hard to see any easy spots left to build in GUH

ShaneC1600

donvito99 wrote: »

It would seem to me to be obvious that a single track railway will serve (infrequently) the (very few) towns that happen to lie on the railway compared to a bus lane provides for bus services serving any town with a road, be it large or small. Why you'd prioritise a railway in a vast, low density rural region over a piece of infrastructure which could benefit much more of the region beats me.

An East - West dedicated bus corridor, from Knocknacarra via UHG, UCG, the City Centre/Ceannt Station, Lismore, Mervue, Ballybrit, Briarhill, Parkmore and out to some sort of P&R at the Airport would seem to me to be an investment that ranks far higher than a heritage railway to Ballyglunin. It would provide for more direct public transport services (by bus, less likely to have to change to a train) to the places people would seem to want to go, judging by Galway's outrageous congestion.

I dont disagree with all of that in fairness but you are discussing two different modes serving different areas so not really possible to compare.
The infrequent train wouldnt have to be infrequent. The very few towns served could easily be described as the northwest of Ireland or connecting the largest town in Galway to the city of Galway.
I agree the bus corridor through the city is important but I'd include GMIT on that route but again you add in the "heritage rail to Ballyglunin" as a condescending statement to belittle other peoples view to give your own view higher standing.
Would better planning not include the bus corridor going hand in hand with the double tracking of the rail line, station in Ros Cam and opening of the Western Rail Corridor.

Greaney

JJJackal wrote: »

I wouldnt build GUH in the airport. That actually doesnt make sense when you have Merlin Park Campus available. GUH would benefit from relocation to Merlin for many reasons esp if the new ring road is built. With the new ring road and GUH in Merlin it would probably be quicker or as quick to get from Connemara to the "new" Galway Hospital.

Merlin (with the new proposed ring road built) has many advantages over GUH

1) easy access from all over Galway - adjacent easy access to 2 motorways and a ring road - the train doesn't pass to far from Merlin Park either - create a new stop in Renmore or Doughiska - needs thought obviously. Link with buses...
2) very large site so plenty of room for expansion
3) reduce city centre traffic substantially
4) parking
5) new would potentially have space...
6) old site could be used for offices, housing, expand university, commercial etc etc
7) potential to merge with other hospitals like Portuncula - likely not feasible to merge into current GUH due to limited space on site and poor access
8) re the university - you build a medical wing in Merlin. Students already do placements there; that link alone should not be reason to prevent building in Merlin.

edit you say these things would be cheaper eg western rail but a new hospital on a site like Merlin could be tailored to the needs of the public. Hard to see any easy spots left to build in GUH

Students do 'placements' in hospitals all over the region, but not in the first couple of years. As a teaching hospital it's part of the NUIG teaching campus so they're more intertwined than that. That doesn't seem to be understood in these posts.

Speech Therapy is done on the University campus itself for example (near where the former Franciscan Nursing home was) Some lectures, classes and the library are in the Hospital. The OSCEs mostly take place in the hospital. Going between the two up to three times a day is no longer feasible with the moving of the hospital.

Moving UCHG is in the realm of 'if I won the Euromillions' as a conversation. That's not a good place to be if one is campaigning to get a greenway.

Deleted User wrote: »

Drama much?

Nope, just astonished. Stunned even. With all the 'shmart' one liners back and forth on this thread, I'm just stunned and having an ' I can't believe you said that' moment.

I'm also going to confess, 'lets move the hospital to deal with traffic' conversations here are really revealing. The HSE accountants would blow a gasket :rolleyes: Or just laugh in the face of whoever thinks that.

ShaneC1600

JJJackal wrote: »

I wouldnt build GUH in the airport. That actually doesnt make sense when you have Merlin Park Campus available. GUH would benefit from relocation to Merlin for many reasons esp if the new ring road is built. With the new ring road and GUH in Merlin it would probably be quicker or as quick to get from Connemara to the "new" Galway Hospital.

Merlin (with the new proposed ring road built) has many advantages over GUH

1) easy access from all over Galway - adjacent easy access to 2 motorways and a ring road - the train doesn't pass to far from Merlin Park either - create a new stop in Renmore or Doughiska - needs thought obviously. Link with buses...
2) very large site so plenty of room for expansion
3) reduce city centre traffic substantially
4) parking
5) new would potentially have space...
6) old site could be used for offices, housing, expand university, commercial etc etc
7) potential to merge with other hospitals like Portuncula - likely not feasible to merge into current GUH due to limited space on site and poor access
8) re the university - you build a medical wing in Merlin. Students already do placements there; that link alone should not be reason to prevent building in Merlin.

edit you say these things would be cheaper eg western rail but a new hospital on a site like Merlin could be tailored to the needs of the public. Hard to see any easy spots left to build in GUH

Will the planners permit building in Merlin now though? From memory there has been lots of planning applications rejected due to different ecological reasons.

ezstreet5

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Will the planners permit building in Merlin now though? From memory there has been lots of planning applications rejected due to different ecological reasons.

If development is proposed within the existing 'Community, Cultural, Institutional' zone of MPUH, there will be no problems. If they encroach into the surrounding 'Recreation and Amenity' zone (e.g., Galway Hospice), there is a planning risk.

Agree that the bus corridor serving GMIT and MPUH requires upgrading, particularly in the outbound direction.

JJJackal

Greaney wrote: »

Students do 'placements' in hospitals all over the region, but not in the first couple of years. As a teaching hospital it's part of the NUIG teaching campus so they're more intertwined than that. That doesn't seem to be understood in these posts.

Speech Therapy is done on the University campus itself for example (near where the former Franciscan Nursing home was) Some lectures, classes and the library are in the Hospital. The OSCEs mostly take place in the hospital. Going between the two up to three times a day is no longer feasible with the moving of the hospital.

I'm also going to confess, 'lets move the hospital to deal with traffic' conversations here are really revealing. The HSE accountants would blow a gasket :rolleyes: Or just laugh in the face of whoever thinks that.

You build lecture halls etc in Merlin. You do the OSCEs in Merlin. This is certainly not a good reason for this not to happen. Merlin is only 20 min out the road. You integrate NUIG with the new hospital campus. How do all the other universities in Ireland that are not colocated with a hospital manage? Literally no other university is colocated with a hospital?

Its not move the hospital to deal with traffic conversation. Moving the hospital could help. Someone suggested you could build it at the airport so just proposing a superior location. You dont move a hospital to deal with traffic obviously especially if your hospital is top drawer with all the facilities you need. You move the hospital because you need room to expand and you own a better site a few miles out the road. You move the hospital to create a better facility and improve services. You move the hospital because you can sell a middle of the city site for alot of cash (not enough to probably build the foundation of a new hospital but still alot of cash).

Greaney

JJJackal wrote: »

How do all the other universities in Ireland that are not colocated with a hospital manage? Literally no other university is colocated with a hospital?

Think about that....

It gives the medical degree in Galway an edge over others.

Meanwhile.... The Western Rail corridor doesn't need any CPO's to get people moving between Sligo & Limerick

JJJackal

Greaney wrote: »

It gives the medical degree in Galway an edge over others.

So why are the points for other medical colleges higher

Greaney

JJJackal wrote: »

So why are the points for other medical colleges higher

Like Trinity? Prestige

Meanwhile... Western Rail Corridor....

ezstreet5

JJJackal wrote: »

You build lecture halls etc in Merlin. You do the OSCEs in Merlin. This is certainly not a good reason for this not to happen. Merlin is only 20 min out the road. You integrate NUIG with the new hospital campus. How do all the other universities in Ireland that are not colocated with a hospital manage? Literally no other university is colocated with a hospital?

Its not move the hospital to deal with traffic conversation. Moving the hospital could help. Someone suggested you could build it at the airport so just proposing a superior location. You dont move a hospital to deal with traffic obviously especially if your hospital is top drawer with all the facilities you need. You move the hospital because you need room to expand and you own a better site a few miles out the road. You move the hospital to create a better facility and improve services. You move the hospital because you can sell a middle of the city site for alot of cash (not enough to probably build the foundation of a new hospital but still alot of cash).

We don't need to play SimHospital here. There is a fairly detailed plan for new/relocated services to be delivered at MPUH.

https://saolta.ie/sites/default/files/publications/GUH%20Options%20Appraisal%20Report%20-%20Final.pdf#page=93

TCDStudent1

Greaney wrote: »

Like Trinity? Prestige

Meanwhile... Western Rail Corridor....

Thats extremely debatable. Trinity are linked to James Hospital which is a short journey on public transport. They also have a large section in that hospital devoted to lecture rooms and a library. My guess is that Trinity's points are higher due to the link with James hospital (which generally has the most modern equipment etc.).

However, I agree with your point that talk of relocating Galway hospital is pie in the sky stuff! Although, in fairness to the discussion, most people said that at the start anyway.

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

with the trend towards EVs, is that a problem?

Rail is rather an outmoded form of transport, technology will show a better way to do travel in the not so distant future that doesn't rely on rails to guide it.

It's not just the fuel that is the problem with persisting with private motoring - every aspect of them is a disaster when you add it up. Tyres (oil based) and a major problem in disposing of them; interiors more plastic than ever (oil based again); batteries....that's just off the top of my head.

intellectual dosser

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

Greaney

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

Thank you for sharing that.

They kept that close to their chest. I don't blame them, the treatment of pro-rail politicians has here to fore, has been nothing short of appalling.

I believe a greenway between Athenry & Tuam is still very do-able, if folk are willing to put the work in and explore all the options available.

TCDStudent1

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

The Galway Easy Green candidate (who did not get elected) publicly stated he supported a greenway on the railway line.

Greaney

Greaney wrote: »

Thank you for sharing that.

They kept that close to their chest. I don't blame them, the treatment of pro-rail politicians has here to fore, has been nothing short of appalling.

I believe a greenway between Athenry & Tuam is still very do-able, if folk are willing to put the work in and explore all the options available.

Go ahead, outline what you think should be done to create a "car free" greenway

Personally I think the unused line which is CPO free and available for leasing from IR and provides a full, intact, off road route and could be in place within 12 months if kicked off today.....is the best option.

But I'm 100% open to hearing all viable alternatives that provide for a greenway.

Note, greenway funding is contingent on being built away from motorised traffic and being realistic no greenway will be built without funding from central government

ezstreet5

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

The Galway Easy Green candidate (who did not get elected) publicly stated he supported a greenway on the railway line.

The same one who received 4.5% of first preferences and was eliminated after the 4th count. Granted, we are more one of the more regressive constituencies that returned the exact same three TDs.

westtip

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

That transport policy is at odds with their election manifesto in which they identified several rail projects they want to see happen but the WRC was missing on every count. We will have to wait to see what this draft PFG says, I can't see it listing the WRC but always surprised at what can happen in this farce.

Greaney

Deleted User wrote: »

Go ahead, outline what you think should be done to create a "car free" greenway

Personally I think the unused line which is CPO free and available for leasing from IR and provides a full, intact, off road route and could be in place within 12 months if kicked off today.....is the best option.

But I'm 100% open to hearing all viable alternatives that provide for a greenway.

Note, greenway funding is contingent on being built away from motorised traffic and being realistic no greenway will be built without funding from central government

I'll begin by saying that I don't think that green ways should only be built if they're CPO free. There seems to be an understanding on this thread that CPOs are fine for motor vehicles (bus lanes, motorways etc.) so I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In short, river easements linking the historical (Ancient East) sites of East Galway between Tuam & Athenry. Some folk have started on this project (I attended a presentation on it) and I think it looks like it has real potential.

ezstreet5

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Apparently we're getting close to having a government and it looks like the Green Party have secured much of their objectives, with the ratio of investment in public transport versus road infrastructure being the 2:1 they have been calling for.

A couple of pages back I mentioned that the Green Party looked like they were more favorable to cycling (based on GE info) but now that I actually look up their transport policy they have declared in favour of the full restoration of the Western Rail Corridor.

My two cents, they have gotten their way with the structure of spending, but probably won't have it as easy with FG/FF when it comes to selecting which projects go ahead.

In any case we may be a little closer to the drawer in Shane Ross' former desk being opened and moving forward in some direction.

Thanks for posting. This appears to be more detailed (44 pp.) and more current (30/4/2020) than the Greens' pre-election 7-page glossy from late January. The latter included some carefully crafted language regarding "derelict rail lines" that was so vague that it was actually meaningless. Regardless, I do not expect any announcements regarding a project of/on the WRC when the new government forms.