Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

Isambard

Greaney wrote: »

Greater Dublin Area

sounds more like German Democratic Republic to me when people talk of forcing people to live in Cities.

eastwest

Sam Russell wrote: »

Now that is only an asset for a rail line if it can be used to generate passengers. With the complete lack of any trip generators along the route, it would appear that there is nearly no chance of that route being a successful public transport route that can provide any form of useful service.

]

It is pretty much universally accepted that passenger rail on this route is not in anybody's plans. It makes no sense, the numbers don't add up, and if built it would bring people where they aren't interested in going.
The only card left in the deck for the rail lobby is freight, and has been for some time. I recall one WOT politician even putting his own expert figure of 90 million (from memory) on building a line solely for freight, and that was before the last three rail reports emerged, none of them showing any case for a railway.
So, a freight line for what? That's the question. Projected demand is one to two trains a day, which would have to displace the traffic from existing lines. The value to the community of the cargo carried would have to be extraordinary to justify such an investment, which of course isn't coming anyway. Kicking the can down the road with an all-Ireland review just puts the ball into the court of the next government, so it will be interesting to see whether Sinn Fein spends all the money available to the entire country to build a line to connect the 1960s refugees in Shannon Town to their relations in Derry.

Greaney

eastwest wrote: »

And JASPERS? Are they wrong too? And was the WDC report on rail freight wrong too?
Or was it just the McCAnn Report, the one that gave false hope to the rail enthusiasts?

Jaspers didn't peer review the figures just the conclusion

eastwest wrote: »

It is pretty much universally accepted that passenger rail on this route is not in anybody's plans.

That would be true, if you're a driver, and car dependent. But if one is dependent on public transport, relies on Galway for dialysis/cancer care etc., rail is most certainly in one's plan

Greaney

Sam Russell wrote: »

I am confused by this continuous wrangling over the EY report. If it contains errors of detail, they should be corrected. If those errors leak into the substance of the report to give a completely erroneous outcome, the Gov should look for its money back.

Can't argue with you there. But if they don't read it (lets be honest it's a tough read) and/or the modelling etc. is not available to the public to run, then it looks like it's been designed to obfuscate the issues and kick the can further down the road

Sam Russell

eastwest wrote: »

It is pretty much universally accepted that passenger rail on this route is not in anybody's plans. It makes no sense, the numbers don't add up, and if built it would bring people where they aren't interested in going.
The only card left in the deck for the rail lobby is freight, and has been for some time. I recall one WOT politician even putting his own expert figure of 90 million (from memory) on building a line solely for freight, and that was before the last three rail reports emerged, none of them showing any case for a railway.
So, a freight line for what? That's the question. Projected demand is one to two trains a day, which would have to displace the traffic from existing lines. The value to the community of the cargo carried would have to be extraordinary to justify such an investment, which of course isn't coming anyway. Kicking the can down the road with an all-Ireland review just puts the ball into the court of the next government, so it will be interesting to see whether Sinn Fein spends all the money available to the entire country to build a line to connect the 1960s refugees in Shannon Town to their relations in Derry.

The point I was making is similar to the tourist looking for directions from a local and gets the reply - 'If I were going there, I would not start from here!'

If you want to provide rail PT in Co Galway, no-one would build it down the Tuam Athenry alignment. It starts from a very small town and goes to a very small town with nothing in-between that might generate a few passengers.

A bus running down the newly built M17 provides a much better connection, so why look any further?

Improving rail in Co. Galway would be better served by dual tracking the line from Athenry to Galway - perhaps even doing that from Athlone. It would then allow commuter rail over that distance.

Greaney

Sam Russell wrote: »

The point I was making is similar to the tourist looking for directions from a local and gets the reply - 'If I were going there, I would not start from here!'

If you want to provide rail PT in Co Galway, no-one would build it down the Tuam Athenry alignment. It starts from a very small town and goes to a very small town with nothing in-between that might generate a few passengers.

That's a really good argument against a green way

eastwest

Greaney wrote: »

Jaspers didn't peer review the figures just the conclusion




That would be true, if you're a driver, and car dependent. But if one is dependent on public transport, relies on Galway for dialysis/cancer care etc., rail is most certainly in one's plan

Or a bus, which is the accepted alternative where the figures don't add up for rail.

eastwest

Greaney wrote: »

Can't argue with you there. But if they don't read it (lets be honest it's a tough read) and/or the modelling etc. is not available to the public to run, then it looks like it's been designed to obfuscate the issues and kick the can further down the road

The report was carried out at the insistence of West on Track, who had their own person in situ when it was being tendered for. So why are they unhappy now?
They can't keep demanding reports, and then throwing the toys out of the pram when the reports keep coming up with the same answer. The buck has to stop at some point.

Greaney

eastwest wrote: »

Or a bus, which is the accepted alternative where the figures don't add up for rail.

Let them eat cake?

Rail is better than bus for

1) Wheelchair users
2) mobility scooters
3) bikes
4) Cancer & dialysis patents prefer rail. It's a better mode of transport with regards to facilities. Many come from Donegal & Sligo which is no joke on a bus.

Ireland is awash with invisible bus stops. They have no toilets, no shelter & no signage

Greaney

eastwest wrote: »

The report was carried out at the insistence of West on Track, who had their own person in situ when it was being tendered for. So why are they unhappy now?
They can't keep demanding reports, and then throwing the toys out of the pram when the reports keep coming up with the same answer. The buck has to stop at some point.

It is right and proper to be unhappy with an overpriced, shoddily written report that wasn't peer reviewed.

You would have rightly gone through any report if it told you that a longed green way was not viable. If you had found fault, you'd have been very angry.

We build for the future. I'd be happy with

1) the report (math) allowed to be peer reviewed
2) the modeling (calculations) made accessible and in the index of the report (an industry norm)
3) Modeling that included projected population growth
4) The issues of disability, independent travel (children), the elderly & medical catchment included in the reports calculations

Sam Russell

Greaney wrote: »

Let them eat cake?

Rail is better than bus for

1) Wheelchair users
2) mobility scooters
3) bikes
4) Cancer & dialysis patents prefer rail. It's a better mode of transport with regards to facilities. Many come from Donegal & Sligo which is no joke on a bus.

Ireland is awash with invisible bus stops. They have no toilets, no shelter & no signage

How many people living between Tuam and Athenry fit into that cohort - wheelchair user, mobility scooter, cancer and dialysis patients? How often do they travel? How do they travel at the moment?

Del.Monte

Sam Russell wrote: »

The point I was making is similar to the tourist looking for directions from a local and gets the reply - 'If I were going there, I would not start from here!'

If you want to provide rail PT in Co Galway, no-one would build it down the Tuam Athenry alignment. It starts from a very small town and goes to a very small town with nothing in-between that might generate a few passengers.

A bus running down the newly built M17 provides a much better connection, so why look any further?

Improving rail in Co. Galway would be better served by dual tracking the line from Athenry to Galway - perhaps even doing that from Athlone. It would then allow commuter rail over that distance.

Why has the northern rebuilding of the so-called WRC become about providing a commuter link between Tuam and Galway when in reality it is about reinstating a through route linking the North West with the South and South East. You might as well argue that providing a rail link between Limerick and Westport would NOT be built via Galway City. This thread is just a total ****ing bore at this stage and just irritates all concerned.

Greaney

Sam Russell wrote: »

How many people living between Tuam and Athenry fit into that cohort - wheelchair user, mobility scooter, cancer and dialysis patients? How often do they travel? How do they travel at the moment?

That should have all been in the EY report. It wasn't :rolleyes:

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

Why has the northern rebuilding of the so-called WRC become about providing a commuter link between Tuam and Galway when in reality it is about reinstating a through route linking the North West with the South and South East. You might as well argue that providing a rail link between Limerick and Westport would NOT be built via Galway City. This thread is just a total ****ing bore at this stage and just irritates all concerned.

I think not even the most wildly optimistic railway enthusiast thinks there will be anything other than a freight railway between Claremorris and Athenry at this stage. Even West on track, whose view of this grandiose project is more optimistic than anybody's, has pretty much conceded this in their more recent pronouncements. This has been all about freight for a few years now, even though the WDC report could find no case for an additional freight railway to serve Mayo.
But the idea of building a passenger railway from Limerick to Derry, or even to Sligo, is one that is simply in the realms of fantasy.

Sam Russell

If the Gov had a choice between putting a railway line from Tuam to Galway or between Navan and Parkway (both about the same distance), which do you think would get a better no of passengers? Both follow a previous line long closed, and connecting to an existing service.

Alternatively, which route would be chosen to become a greenway to preserve the alignment in public ownership?

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

I think not even the most wildly optimistic railway enthusiast thinks there will be anything other than a freight railway between Claremorris and Athenry at this stage. Even West on track, whose view of this grandiose project is more optimistic than anybody's, has pretty much conceded this in their more recent pronouncements. This has been all about freight for a few years now, even though the WDC report could find no case for an additional freight railway to serve Mayo.
But the idea of building a passenger railway from Limerick to Derry, or even to Sligo, is one that is simply in the realms of fantasy.

EW they just don't get it and they don't realise in the vacuum of a message board nobody is listening nor in the outside world of this asylum does anyone have the slightest bit interest in their cries of foul after the rail reports were delivered. The headlines on the reports on the day they were released is what has registered with the general public and the decision makers, it's over EW they just will not accept it, let them get their log books out and slide rules and pour over the reports adfinitum, nobody is listening to the toys being thrown out the pram. I feel slightly sorry for them.....but then on the other hand no I don't.

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

I think not even the most wildly optimistic railway enthusiast thinks there will be anything other than a freight railway between Claremorris and Athenry at this stage. Even West on track, whose view of this grandiose project is more optimistic than anybody's, has pretty much conceded this in their more recent pronouncements. This has been all about freight for a few years now, even though the WDC report could find no case for an additional freight railway to serve Mayo.
But the idea of building a passenger railway from Limerick to Derry, or even to Sligo, is one that is simply in the realms of fantasy.

I did not mention Sligo or Derry and nowhere have I seen passenger trains between Athenry and Claremorris deleted from anyone's plans. Just because Eamonn Ryan has a some grandiose freight plan does not undermine the credibility of reinstating passenger services.

eastwest

Sam Russell wrote: »

If the Gov had a choice between putting a railway line from Tuam to Galway or between Navan and Parkway (both about the same distance), which do you think would get a better no of passengers? Both follow a previous line long closed, and connecting to an existing service.

Alternatively, which route would be chosen to become a greenway to preserve the alignment in public ownership?

There's 30,000 people living in Navan and quite a few more between there and Parkway, and a lot of them work in Dublin. Trim was served by a branch off the old line and has around 9,000 people.
Tuam has just over 5,000 people.
So I suppose, wearing my west on track hat, the answer is Tuam to Galway?

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

I did not mention Sligo or Derry and nowhere have I seen passenger trains between Athenry and Claremorris deleted from anyone's plans. Just because Eamonn Ryan has a some grandiose freight plan does not undermine the credibility of reinstating passenger services.

As I recall, John O'Mahony was the one who suggested opening the line for freight only, and he even had a McCann Report style costing, based in part on the fact that it wouldn't need stations.

Isambard

Del.Monte wrote: »

Why has the northern rebuilding of the so-called WRC become about providing a commuter link between Tuam and Galway when in reality it is about reinstating a through route linking the North West with the South and South East. You might as well argue that providing a rail link between Limerick and Westport would NOT be built via Galway City. This thread is just a total ****ing bore at this stage and just irritates all concerned.

there already is a through route linking the NW and S/SE

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

there already is a through route linking the NW and S/SE

Do tell, I must have missed it.

Isambard

Sligo to Dublin then PPT and Cork or Waterford main lines would be options.

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

Sligo to Dublin then PPT and Cork or Waterford main lines would be options.

Not very realistic options are they but I suppose anything goes in the WRC thread.

Isambard

Del.Monte wrote: »

Not very realistic options are they but I suppose anything goes in the WRC thread.

What's not realistic about it? Put on a service Sligo to Waterford or Rosslare as a tester and see how many through journeys occur.

That few passengers and no freight go that way would be a good indication of what traffic the WRC might (or might not) carry.

Captain Lugger

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you mean by this?
Are you anti sprawl?

A long term policy to encourage rail use would be to ban one off housing and development not adjacent to rail lines. It would go down like a lead balloon locally.

You’ve summed up objections to rural regeneration that would create sustainable jobs and encourage growth in both population and the economy. Running Ireland as if there would be never be growth is going to limit work to the existing cities and we cut off any chance of growing the country away from boom and bust.

Captain Lugger

Isambard wrote: »

I think there's a typo there, did you mean GDR?

No.

Captain Lugger

Greaney wrote: »

Let them eat cake?

Rail is better than bus for

1) Wheelchair users
2) mobility scooters
3) bikes
4) Cancer & dialysis patents prefer rail. It's a better mode of transport with regards to facilities. Many come from Donegal & Sligo which is no joke on a bus.

Ireland is awash with invisible bus stops. They have no toilets, no shelter & no signage

Good enough for them, say the rail objectors. It’s ultimately all about keeping the status quo - cars and more of them; while the development value of ag land is the same for a hacienda or a multi use development on the same footprint.

Captain Lugger

Captain Lugger wrote: »

Good enough for them, say the rail objectors. It’s ultimately all about keeping the status quo - cars and more of them; while the development value of ag land is the same for a hacienda or a multi use development on the same footprint.

Personally I'm not a rail objector, I used rail regularly pre-covid. Since covid I've sold my car so now bus, bike & rail are my options. I also am one of those with mobility issues.

If the WRC phase 2/3/whatever got approved in the morning, I'd cheer and start pushing to make sure they built a greenway alongside it as 90% of the existing infrastructure would need to be replaced so there would be major construction activities happening along the route anyway.

Nothing at all wrong with this and even the Dublin - Galway greenway considered this option for its route as this is a normal practice all over the world. Note, it also has a significant portion of the Athenry - Tuam line marked as another option for part of the route.

Rail & bike infrastructure go very well together as the gradient for rail makes for a very pleasant cycle. Lets make use of the asset until such time as a strong enough case for rail exists.

Just because I want to see the greenway now doesn't mean I never want to see a railway, I'm just a realist unlike some who would rather see the asset rot, serving nobody.

ezstreet5

eastwest wrote: »

There's 30,000 people living in Navan and quite a few more between there and Parkway, and a lot of them work in Dublin. Trim was served by a branch off the old line and has around 9,000 people.
Tuam has just over 5,000 people.
So I suppose, wearing my west on track hat, the answer is Tuam to Galway?

I'd say there would be good uptake for a Tuam-Galway rail service. Tuam has a population over 9,000, and the bus alone carries over 2,000 passengers per day. Even with the Athenry "detour," a rail service would shave 15 to 30 minutes off of the bus commute, which now stands at 45 to 60+ min (pre-Covid). There will always be a need for Burke's Bus, but for those travelling to Galway city centre, the rail service would be the preferred option.

ezstreet5

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I'd say there would be good uptake for a Tuam-Galway rail service. Tuam has a population over 9,000, and the bus alone carries over 2,000 passengers per day. Even with the Athenry "detour," a rail service would shave 15 to 30 minutes off of the bus commute, which now stands at 45 to 60+ min (pre-Covid). There will always be a need for Burke's Bus, but for those travelling to Galway city centre, the rail service would be the preferred option.

Still not a strong enough justification to build WRC phase 2 ahead of other rail projects, not by a long shot.

It should be noted that the Tuam Rd is scheduled to get a bus lane too which will bring down the journey time significantly for Burkes and others

ezstreet5

Deleted User wrote: »

Still not a strong enough justification to build WRC phase 2 ahead of other rail projects, not by a long shot.

It should be noted that the Tuam Rd is scheduled to get a bus lane too which will bring down the journey time significantly for Burkes and others

What's the price tag for that?

eastwest

Isambard wrote: »

there already is a through route linking the NW and S/SE

Derry-Belfast-Dublin-Waterford, all by rail.

ezstreet5

ezstreet5 wrote: »

What's the price tag for that?

Hasn't been funded yet so I couldn't tell you. Last I heard they were working out CP issues on the stretch after Flemings garage. How far its supposed to go and from where to where, I don't know yet. I post regularly in the Galway traffic thread on the Galway City & County board. If you follow that you'll get those answers when I have them.

Think its safe to say it will have a vastly higher CBA than any extension of the WRC would though

eastwest

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I'd say there would be good uptake for a Tuam-Galway rail service. Tuam has a population over 9,000, and the bus alone carries over 2,000 passengers per day. Even with the Athenry "detour," a rail service would shave 15 to 30 minutes off of the bus commute, which now stands at 45 to 60+ min (pre-Covid). There will always be a need for Burke's Bus, but for those travelling to Galway city centre, the rail service would be the preferred option.

I understand the majority of the bus commute from tuam isn't to eyre Square, but to Ballybrit and the hospital.

serfboard

Del.Monte wrote: »

This thread is just a total ****ing bore at this stage

Maybe stop reading it then?

Del.Monte

serfboard wrote: »

Maybe stop reading it then?

I would except that every once in a while I feel antagonised enough to post. At the end of the day all the views expressed here by both sides will count for nothing as the government will do nothing and CIE will be happy with that outcome and as for the greenway....

eastwest

Del.Monte wrote: »

I would except that every once in a while I feel antagonised enough to post. At the end of the day all the views expressed here by both sides will count for nothing as the government will do nothing and CIE will be happy with that outcome and as for the greenway....

Unfortunately, doing nothing is the best political option south of claremorris. The greenway has probably reached a tipping point on the Burma Road, particularly with the Sligo Greenway now well embedded in council policy.
South of claremorris though, because the rail lobby is so embedded in local politics, and because a number of TDs are committed to rail only, the voice of the public won't count for anything.
Whoever said that doing nothing was not an option clearly had never come across east Galway and south Mayo politics.

ShaneC1600

eastwest wrote: »

Unfortunately, doing nothing is the best political option south of claremorris. The greenway has probably reached a tipping point on the Burma Road, particularly with the Sligo Greenway now well embedded in council policy.
South of claremorris though, because the rail lobby is so embedded in local politics, and because a number of TDs are committed to rail only, the voice of the public won't count for anything.
Whoever said that doing nothing was not an option clearly had never come across east Galway and south Mayo politics.

Funny thing is the greenway campaign might be louder and have louder supporters than the railway lobbyists and supporters but there seems to be solid support for the railway regardless of what the greenway campaign would have people believe.
The voice of the public is not all greenway from what I see and here south of Claremorris.

Greaney

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Funny thing is the greenway campaign might be louder and have louder supporters than the railway lobbyists and supporters but there seems to be solid support for the railway regardless of what the greenway campaign would have people believe.
The voice of the public is not all greenway from what I see and here south of Claremorris.

Indeed, 73% pro rail & 10% pro greenway was the final tally on the EY report

ohographite

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

For Athenry - Tuam, it has total rail daily demand of 145 passengers. I very much doubt that the demand for Athenry - Tuam is almost half of the north bound boardings recorded for Athenry - Galway in the 2019 heavy rail census. For every two people commuting Athenry - Galway by train, there is almost another person who would take the train daily Athenry - Tuam? I doubt it given the huge difference in employment, educational and leisure opportunities in Galway city v Tuam.

Perhaps the estimate of 145 Athenry - Tuam passengers daily includes the estimated number of passengers who would travel to Tuam from Dublin, and, to a lesser extent, those travelling to Tuam from the towns between Dublin and Athenry. They would have to change trains in Athenry, so maybe the report labels all predicted Dublin-Tuam journeys as Athenry-Tuam journeys. It could be how they arrived at the estimate of 145 passengers daily, but I am not sure.

eastwest

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Funny thing is the greenway campaign might be louder and have louder supporters than the railway lobbyists and supporters but there seems to be solid support for the railway regardless of what the greenway campaign would have people believe.
The voice of the public is not all greenway from what I see and here south of Claremorris.

I think we'd all support the railway, if it was a realistic option. If I was asked whether I'd like a railway from athenry to collooney, of course I'd say yes, even though the likelihood of using it might be slim. It would be grand to have it there though, in case I ever took a notion to see Tuam or Milltown from a train.
It's not about what people would like to see though, it's what is realistic. And that's the key bit.

westtip

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I'd say there would be good uptake for a Tuam-Galway rail service. Tuam has a population over 9,000, and the bus alone carries over 2,000 passengers per day. Even with the Athenry "detour," a rail service would shave 15 to 30 minutes off of the bus commute, which now stands at 45 to 60+ min (pre-Covid). There will always be a need for Burke's Bus, but for those travelling to Galway city centre, the rail service would be the preferred option.

One of the major issues of the bus v rail commute is the matter of frequency. If the railway was built what would the frequency of trains be? Maybe one every two hours if you are lucky. Max 6 outbound and 6 inbound a day and not likely to be anything after 6 in the evening. Someone might want to comment on the bus service Galway-Tuam but my guess is there must be buses from early morning to late at night on that route which seems very well served. You claim the rail service will be the preferred option, that is a POV, but do you really believe it when the flexibility of the bus in regard to timetables offers so many more choices. I am not sure about your claim of saving 15 to 30 minutes off timing either, perhaps you could enlighten us all on that claim, I am prepared to see what you mean by that one if you present the facts. I can equally see the train will be "more pleasant" etc etc, but for it to work as an alternative you would need a DART type regulatory, and due to demographics that simply is not going to be on offer.

Sam Russell

westtip wrote: »

One of the major issues of the bus v rail commute is the matter of frequency. If the railway was built what would the frequency of trains be? Maybe one every two hours if you are lucky. Max 6 outbound and 6 inbound a day and not likely to be anything after 6 in the evening. Someone might want to comment on the bus service Galway-Tuam but my guess is there must be buses from early morning to late at night on that route which seems very well served. You claim the rail service will be the preferred option, that is a POV, but do you really believe it when the flexibility of the bus in regard to timetables offers so many more choices. I am not sure about your claim of saving 15 to 30 minutes off timing either, perhaps you could enlighten us all on that claim, I am prepared to see what you mean by that one if you present the facts. I can equally see the train will be "more pleasant" etc etc, but for it to work as an alternative you would need a DART type regulatory, and due to demographics that simply is not going to be on offer.

If you consider what happens on an open railway route, consider the Dublin Wexford line. Both Dublin and Wexford are larger that Tuan or Athenry, so one would expect a very good service. Well first train from Dublin to Wexford arrives at 10:36, having left Connolly at 8:05 am, with three services each way.
So 2 and a half hours to go 120 km, or 50 km/h.

Would that satisfy the rail enthusiasts? 20 or 30 buses a day from Tuam to Galway, but only three trains per day to Athenry, with a travel time of an hour to go 30 km.

How long does it take to go from Limerick to Galway by the train that goes through Ennis? 2 hrs 10 mins or less than 40 km/hr. It is quicker by bus.

end of the road

Sam Russell wrote: »

If you consider what happens on an open railway route, consider the Dublin Wexford line. Both Dublin and Wexford are larger that Tuan or Athenry, so one would expect a very good service. Well first train from Dublin to Wexford arrives at 10:36, having left Connolly at 8:05 am, with three services each way.
So 2 and a half hours to go 120 km, or 50 km/h.

it hasn't been 3 services each way since 2004.
4 up and 5 down services, during week days.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

it hasn't been 3 services each way since 2004.
4 up and 5 down services, during week days.

Progress!

Sam Russell

end of the road wrote: »

it hasn't been 3 services each way since 2004.
4 up and 5 down services, during week days.

The times I quoted are for 1st March. The previous timetable had the earliest arrival in Wexford was after midday - useless for business.

westtip

Sam Russell wrote: »

The times I quoted are for 1st March. The previous timetable had the earliest arrival in Wexford was after midday - useless for business.

Probably the covid timetable, some services have been trimmed slightly at the moment but the point I made is pretty clear, the actual service that can be provided on a rural line will not provide sufficient service levels for commuting service compared to bus frequencies and there simply isn't the volume there to provide a DART level commuter service. Ergo, as concluded by the independent reports it simply does not stack up as an idea, so why continue fighting for it, what exactly is it going to achieve? A question in all these years of debate that still remains unanswered.

Sam Russell

It is quite clear looking at the Ennis to Galway times, the service does not get to 50 Km/h. That is an appallingly low speed for a service in this day and age. In comparison, a car (according to Google maps) would average 77 km/h.

The Ennis to Athenry has been open for over a decade and cannot achieve better than 50 Km/h - how can such a service be considered serious?

Isambard

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is quite clear looking at the Ennis to Galway times, the service does not get to 50 Km/h. That is an appallingly low speed for a service in this day and age. In comparison, a car (according to Google maps) would average 77 km/h.

The Ennis to Athenry has been open for over a decade and cannot achieve better than 50 Km/h - how can such a service be considered serious?

It's a victim of people campaigning to have their railway back rather than campaigning for a bit more money spent to have a useful railway. At the very least the Athenry reversal should have been eliminated with a direct chord.

Sam Russell

Isambard wrote: »

It's a victim of people campaigning to have their railway back rather than campaigning for a bit more money spent to have a useful railway. At the very least the Athenry reversal should have been eliminated with a direct chord.

It needs many more passengers - simples.