How do I get out of engineering?

engineerfear1

This post may have come about from a very stressful week, but I just need to get this out there.

I've been working as a civil/structural engineer for a number of years. For the most part I enjoy the work - problem solving, varied work, sense of accomplishment when something is complete. However, one thing I can't get over is the huge amount of stress that it causes.

What it really comes down to is the risk associated with making a mistake. I know that everyone makes mistakes, and it is inevitable even with the most experienced engineers, but when mistakes can result in a wall falling over or a beam collapsing, it scares me senseless.

For instance, a simple calculation can have a massive variance in result if someone forgets a zero somewhere. A force or dimension could be out by a factor of 10! Sure, calculations can be checked by someone more senior, but even so, a single digit amiss in a 20 page calculation report is difficult to find.

I have on a number of occasions either discovered a mistake I made, or my manager pointed it out to me. I don't know if that makes me a bad engineer or if I'm one of the few engineers that admits to it. Thankfully these mistakes were caught in time (a couple of times only marginally). But what if I decided to not recheck what I did? What if my manager only skimmed the calculation? Ultimately I am responsible. You only have to look at the recent bridge collapse in Florida for an idea of the risks engineers take.

I don't think I can cope with the stress that this causes. I've had a few too many close calls and sleepless nights to make this career worthwhile. I'm sorry for the rant, but I feel it's hard to talk about this in real life for fear of being seen as incompetent.

I can't imagine that this fear can ever go away, even with the most stringent checking procedures in place. I'm hoping that someone can advise me of a way out of this career (or at least something with much less risk) that hopefully doesn't require retraining and whereby I could pack up my desk tomorrow without fear of being unemployed.

Alkers

I don't think you're fear is justified, certainly not to that extent. Your organisation's QA processes should set out the review, checking and authorising procedures before any work is issued. If an error was discovered in your work, that had subsequently been given to someone else to check and then another person to authorise, I don't think there would be any question of you being personally held accountable for that error.

engineerfear1

Simona1986 wrote: »

I don't think you're fear is justified, certainly not to that extent. Your organisation's QA processes should set out the review, checking and authorising procedures before any work is issued. If an error was discovered in your work, that had subsequently been given to someone else to check and then another person to authorise, I don't think there would be any question of you being personally held accountable for that error.

Thank you for your response. Is that really how it operates? Lets say if the input into the calculation is wrong, or if the checker wasn't privy to external factors that weren't noted on the calculation itself? Surely the original designer is still culpable?

If what you say is true and an error slips through the checking procedure, is the checker now fully liable? That is another level of risk for any engineer taking on the risk of someone else's design.

What if there is no stringent checking procedure in place? I know many practices are very busy and have limited time in checking every single item that gets issued.

zom

engineerfear1 wrote: »

I don't think I can cope with the stress that this causes. I've had a few too many close calls and sleepless nights to make this career worthwhile.

Surely each person is different and there are individuals who feel comfortable working under pressure like that but if it doesn't suit you feel free to change your career path - there is a lot of options out there. Especially in current economy flow there challenges on may levels and you could find one that suits your ambitions.
I say that as a person who worked in construction industry many many years and at some stage realised that this is not fair-play game (never was probably) and the winner most likely wont be me. You can't eat them - don't let them eat you !!

mickdw

You could jump ship to the public sector. Lots of related roles but without the design responsibility.

con1982

You could stay in civil engineering but work for a company that does less design onerous projects. Housing estates are fairly easy or residential extensions.

Alternatively you could look for more of a project manager type role.

Don't ruin your life feeling stressed out! You only get one shot at it.

G-Man

Are you a Professional or Chartered engineer. If so, it is up to you to suggest what is wrong in the review process and fix it - not just the problem solving. Make sure your practice has the right tools, and skills necessary..

Yes you do work with risks, but so do a lot of people in the chain of design and supply.. Can you offset some of those risks, and document them.

Have you a mentor or a professional to explain to you that it is not just you the engineer with the risk. The concrete company has risk too, the site prep, the steel fixers, the site engineer, the health and safety guy,.. the road planners.

So there is lot of things that could go wrong and they don't. Rarely and unfortunately there are accidents but you are not the weak link.

Even in the terrible bridge collapse I think 6 people die ... yet nearly 6 people every day die in road accidents in florida ... You are really beating yourself up over the vision of big accident that could happen, which wont and even if it was tragic, these do happen every day and life goes on.

You still drive under the bridges others designed, you drink water from the supply that someone else monitors, you eat food that has a supply chain 100s of miles and 100s of hands, yet we trust that.

Think how some of the people in HSE feel with the missed cancer diagnoses, or the people who could have intervened ( maybe) in the last weekends tragic murders..

I think you will find risk of error everywhere, but you should try and manage it .

G-Man

... All said..

Engineers could transition there skills to...

1) PP work
2) Train up on relevant packages and look at BIM / autocad outsourcing
3) If you are not yet high up the salary ladder, go back and do software.. B.Eng will always stand out.

Turbulent Bill

OP, every engineer makes mistakes, it's just human nature. However, there's serious issues with your employers' QA system if these can lead directly to injuries. You should raise this with them as it sounds like a systemic issue rather than one just with you.

As a few suggestions, clearly state your objectives and assumptions in the design docs, so whoever is peer reviewing knows the context. Use tools (spreadsheets etc.) for repetitive work, reduces risk of typos.

The most important thing though is to put value on the review and checking process within the organisation. A culture of rewarding people who find mistakes before they become problems, rather than just box-ticking, goes a long way.

onrail

Yeah OP - all the above regarding QA procedures are very true, but I get the feeling that all the QA and assurances in the world won't get rid of your anxiety and fears. In which case it's better to get out. Life is too short.

Engineering has a terrible stress/reward tradeoff - I'd only see something like nursing (which is better paid!) being worse off!

You're obviously very diligent, dedicated and conscientious. Make that clear to employers in other industries and you'll be grand.

Robbie12

Dont Civil Engineers do a detailed calc and then just multiply everything by 1.5 to make sure they're grand :P

Dont designs get bench marked / compared? Theres nothing too novel going on I'm guessing.

Dont you model your design so if a '0' was missed the model would throw up some issue?

I'd be interested to know how a '0' could be missed what are you using to carry out a design?

But yes public sector sounds like the route to go - outsourcing of design and your conscientiousness will be appreciated.:)

engineerfear1

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

OP, every engineer makes mistakes, it's just human nature. However, there's serious issues with your employers' QA system if these can lead directly to injuries. You should raise this with them as it sounds like a systemic issue rather than one just with you.

As a few suggestions, clearly state your objectives and assumptions in the design docs, so whoever is peer reviewing knows the context. Use tools (spreadsheets etc.) for repetitive work, reduces risk of typos.

The most important thing though is to put value on the review and checking process within the organisation. A culture of rewarding people who find mistakes before they become problems, rather than just box-ticking, goes a long way.

I truly feel that it is down to the very rushed and busy nature of the company I work in. Even today I noticed something I hadn't considered in my original calculation which I put down to me trying to get something out before a deadline. There doesn't appear to be any time for any senior engineer to provide advice, and when advice is sought I get a strong feeling that my manager does not want to waste his time on what I imagine he sees as something I should be able to handle myself.

I don't know what the QA system is like in other companies, but for the most part calculations go unchecked unless specifically requested to be checked. In doing so, in my eyes, would be seen as a weakness as it gives off the impression that I am not confident in my work.

Go to upper management and saying that there needs to be a more rigorous checking procedure would no doubt ring alarm bells, especially if no other engineer is making a fuss about it. Why would they reform their system for one nervous employee? Why would they need this employee?

I'm really torn as what to do. Sometimes I think that this is just a bad phase I'm going through as this happens to me every now and then. I find the work very interesting, my co-workers are great and I'm happy with everything besides the stressful bits. Other times I think life would be much easier if I got out of this business and went into something that didn't have so much responsibility attached to it and not wait for that one day where something goes wrong. All it takes is one time for it to go wrong and your life and possibly others is ruined.

Sorry for the negative reading but unfortunately I don't have anyone in my personal life to speak to about this.

Turbulent Bill

engineerfear1 wrote: »

I don't know what the QA system is like in other companies, but for the most part calculations go unchecked unless specifically requested to be checked. In doing so, in my eyes, would be seen as a weakness as it gives off the impression that I am not confident in my work.

Go to upper management and saying that there needs to be a more rigorous checking procedure would no doubt ring alarm bells, especially if no other engineer is making a fuss about it. Why would they reform their system for one nervous employee? Why would they need this employee?

Take yourself out of the picture and into the management's shoes. If one of your employees came to you with an issue that could have a huge financial and reputational impact on the company, and also had a way to mitigate it, how would you react?

QA is fundamentally a system and culture within a company as a whole, not an individual terrified of making a human mistake. Part of your professional development is calling out issues as you see them. If they ignore them, you can work away with a clear conscience or look for another job.

eoinzy2000

QA is the same in our place. I find the best thing to do is to be more relaxed about your deadlines. Do your designs, and leave them for 24 hours before reviewing. You will have a fresher head to review than simply reviewing after completing. Then, pass onto colleague for quick scan/review. Get software in for beam detailing. Tedd's or masterseries. Compare moments/shears/reactions everytime to simple Calcs in your head.
As long as you are not completely negligent, and show diligence in design, then simply a mistake is a mistake.