Fcuk this world

Mrtestosterone

Awesome. Sometimes I delve deep into the history and make myself extremely upset and angry. I know it's the past but here is my reason for hating people in this world.

Till was born and raised in Chicago and in August 1955, was visiting relatives near Money, in the Mississippi Delta region. He spoke to 21-year-old Carolyn Bryant, the white married proprietor of a small grocery store there. Although what happened at the store is a matter of dispute, Till was accused of flirting with or whistling at Bryant. Decades later, Bryant disclosed that, in 1955, she had fabricated testimony that Till made verbal or physical advances towards her in the store.[1][2] Till's reported behavior, perhaps unwittingly, violated the strictures of conduct for an African-American male interacting with a white woman in the Jim Crow-era South.[3] Several nights after the store incident, Bryant's husband Roy and his half-brother J.W. Milam went armed to Till's great-uncle's house and abducted the boy. They took him away and beat and mutilated him before shooting him in the head and sinking his body in the Tallahatchie River. Three days later, Till's body was discovered and retrieved from the river.

COUNTLESS other hangings and killings of children by grown adults. Oh give me a sec, I'll post a case of where a 12 year old boy was put in an electric chair in good old free United States of America. Oh should I also mention what Japanese did to the Chinese in nanking? You probably don't want to know because if you think nazis were bad then try reading about the nanking massacre. A quick Google and you will see a Japanese officer posing with around 100 heads of decapitated civilians including children. Watching these photos have definitely traumatised me. **** this world and I can guarantee you that if people could get away with this in this time then same things would be happening as well. After all it was the normal less than 100 years ago.

Tl;dr humans are scum and have been throughout the history. I am antisocial because of this. I spend hours reading about these historical events.

Not only that, you see these crowds of idiots smiling in the photos, oh look we just hanged 40 men for no ****ing reason which left children fatherless and widows. Awesome, I swear I would give so much to get back in history. Give me a room and these smiling scum.

The_Kew_Tour

I know this might be hard to believe

But over 99% of people are decent folk

Mrtestosterone

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I know this might be hard to believe

But over 99% of people are decent folk

Very true, I find people in Ireland are very nice but I am talking about the past. How do you justify crowds hanging women and children and smiling in photographs while doing so?

The_Kew_Tour

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

Very true, I find people in Ireland are very nice but I am talking about the past. How do you justify crowds hanging women and children and smiling in photographs while doing so?

Seen some crap with my own eyes. Yep there some sick people in world, but most are horrified by things like this and would never want see it happen and want justice

Mrtestosterone

Laura and L. D. Nelson were an African-American mother and son who were lynched on May 25, 1911, near Okemah, Okfuskee County, Oklahoma.[2][1][3]

L. D. was reported to have shot and killed Okemah's deputy sheriff, George Loney, on May 2, 1911, while Loney and a posse were searching the Nelsons' farm for a stolen cow. L. D. and Laura were both charged with murder; Laura was charged because she allegedly grabbed the gun first. Her husband, Austin, pleaded guilty to larceny and was sent to the relative safety of the state prison in McAlester. Laura and L. D. were held in the Okemah county jail, possibly along with Laura's baby, Carrie, to await trial.[4][5]

During the night of May 24–25, Laura and L. D. were seized from their cells by between a dozen and 40 white men, reportedly including Charley Guthrie, father of the folk singer Woody Guthrie.[6] The Associated Press reported at the time that Laura was raped.[a] She and L. D. were then hanged from a railroad bridge over the North Canadian River. According to one source, Laura's baby was with her but survived the attack.[8]


Yeah awesome world.

Mrtestosterone

There are photographs for all of this. I don't recommend seeing them as you will probably be traumatised like I am. Knowing that that scum like this exists makes me hate the world and become extremely hostile to anyone showing any agreession towards me because I assume that these are the people that would perform these acts with a smile. Would slaughter you and your family smiling.

Sile Na Gig

For the sake of your mental health I would suggest not torturing yourself with this stuff. Focus on how you can make a positive impact on the people around you. If you’re distressed by injustice why not volunteer for amnesty or join a similar campaign. At least then you will be making a difference and will be surrounded by people who feel the same. I’ve been where you are, OP, it’s not a good place to be.

frag420

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

Awesome. Sometimes I delve deep into the history and make myself extremely upset and angry.

Ok so I stopped reading about here...

Is it worth reading on?

CB19Kevo

Its up to society to develop and ensure these acts are not accepted and the perpetrators are dealt with.
Its a sick world but its slowly getting better.

Never wrestle with pigs

Buy yourself a 99 with sprinkles tomorrow and relax

Mrtestosterone

I just want to know how can someone behead men, women and children then place their heads in a single pile for a photograph and show it off like it's some kind of achievement. That was world war 2 so it's not going back thousands of years. And it's not a single person, no, it's thousands of them. All well documented.

Mrtestosterone

frag420 wrote: »

Ok so I stopped reading about here...

Is it worth reading on?

Probably not, just a rant.

The_Brood

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Seen some crap with my own eyes. Yep there some sick people in world, but most are horrified by things like this and would never want see it happen and want justice

You have seen absolutely noting then and it is utterly sickening that you would defend 99% of the people on this planet and what they are doing.



The human mind, no matter how open, can't even being to comprehend a tiny percentage of the horror on this very planet.


We just say "oh no," sip our coffee, and get on with your day. Pretend to care for a moment before jumping straight back into the delusions of every day life, trying not to think about it. Just because you can't see the horrors in front of your eyes, you think it's ok to ignore them.


To agree with the OP - fcuk this world straight to the deepest portions of hell. By every single last strand of our own human morality, we have utterly and eternally failed.

Thesomersarms

I am also an avid reader of world history, my favorite subject in school etc and still is to this day but I too have grappled with such thoughts as to how human beings can given certain circumstances be so cruel to each other, the death camps in ww2 just one on a long list of many, I don’t know All you can do is be a good force to counter the bad, I understand your struggle though it is scary to think of what we are capable of and how these acts are justified by the perpetrators at the time, a cause, I’m good they’re bad therefore it’s ok to do it etc. I think a lot of it is to do with a strong personality influencing the many like sheep etc just look at germany during ww2 the majority were behind hitler even though what he was spouting was insane, maybe a few voices of dissent at the beginning but once they where snuffed out the majority fell in line for fear of speaking out, then this way of way of thinking becomes the norm anyone who then raises their head to say this is wrong become the bad guys/the outcasts, this unfortunately is a trait of humans, I’ve seen examples of this in everyday life many times over the years. I’ve heard it said lonely are the brave.

tony1kenobi

frag420 wrote: »

Ok so I stopped reading about here...

Is it worth reading on?

No. It’s teen angst. Just this wee fella thinks it’s the first time it ever happened to anyone. Wait till he discovers Idi Amin and Genghis Khan.

Mrtestosterone

After reading these articles and seeing the photographs and videos you try to rationalise that maybe earth is actually hell? The amount of atrocities and killings is insane. 100 years ago blacks were hanged, left and right for no reason. If someone said, he looked at me the wrong way, he would be hanged immediately on the nearest tree at that time. All of these cases are well documented and I don't think any of them would consider Americans savages living in caves? No government sanctioned electrocution of a 12 year old child with no evidence because we need to kill for pleasure.

Mrtestosterone

tony1kenobi wrote: »

No. It’s teen angst. Just this wee fella thinks it’s the first time it ever happened to anyone. Wait till he discovers Idi Amin and Genghis Khan.

I read about all of them. However they are so old, it doesn't have the same effect. These recent events are well documented. Latest I've seen is a HD video of ISIS video of maybe 30 heads placed on the spikes on the fence. Now everytime I walk past a fence, the image is stuck in my head. I've also seen Saudi Arabia behead and hang 4 bodies from a crane just recently beside an university. The heads were placed in bags right beside the bodies. I've also seen another woman beheaded in Saudi Arabia and afterwards her bloody body is left hanging for evryone to see by a belt while her head is placed on the ground beside her hanging body. All these are available on YouTube. I've also seen Iran hang gays from a crane and now everytime I see a crane I have an image of a hanging person in my mind. These things are still happening today.

Sile Na Gig

The world is full of beauty and kindness too, it’s just not as well documented. Most people, when given the opportunity, will choose to act with compassion. Get off the internet, OP, go outside and breathe. Go find some puppies to play with or something.

North inner city hoodlum

Have an ice cream, everyone loves ice cream.

Or just have a ****

History is history, focus on the present and future with rainbows and ice cream.

Uncharted

North inner city hoodlum wrote: »

Have an ice cream, everyone loves ice cream.

Or just have a ****

History is history, focus on the present and future with rainbows and ice cream.

+1 on the 'ol hand shandy there pal.

Go knock one out and there won't be a bother on ya...

Your Face

Irish Guitarist

You should read about Nat Turner or if you have Netflix look at the documentary about him. He lead a slave revolt who went around houses killing everyone, including any babies they found.

somefeen

Here's a thought.
If say 70% of the worlds population was as evil and twisted as the people you're talking about, then maybe 70% of their victims deserve it.

But we know that they didn't deserve it, probably not even one of them. So then in order for a small group of evil bastards to do evil things to a larger or equally sized group people who aren't evil and don't deserve it, the total population of evil bastards would have to be very small. (Assuming they interact randomly)

Most people are actually sound. If you stay afraid of encountering the bad ones you'll never meet the good ones.

Atoms for Peace

Just remember, the sweet is never as sweet without the sour, and I know the sour.

Mrtestosterone

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

I read about all of them. However they are so old, it doesn't have the same effect. These recent events are well documented. Latest I've seen is a HD video of ISIS video of maybe 30 heads placed on the spikes on the fence. Now everytime I walk past a fence, the image is stuck in my head. I've also seen Saudi Arabia behead and hang 4 bodies from a crane just recently beside an university. The heads were placed in bags right beside the bodies. I've also seen another woman beheaded in Saudi Arabia and afterwards her bloody body is left hanging for evryone to see by a belt while her head is placed on the ground beside her hanging body. All these are available on YouTube. I've also seen Iran hang gays from a crane and now everytime I see a crane I have an image of a hanging person in my mind. These things are still happening today.

This is what you use YouTube for?
It’s not a case of us burying our heads in the sand, you are burying your head in the dirt

You have a hanging person in your mind every time you see a crane? my advice would be to go cold turkey and change your internet searches

Akrasia

There are 7.6 billion people in the world today. If being a sick monster was a 1 in a thousand character trait, there would be 7.6 million sick monsters in the world alive today. Randomly spread around the world, that's one for every 6km2 of the land surface of the earth.

Sunflower 27

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I know this might be hard to believe

But over 99% of people are decent folk

I don't believe it's that high. I suppose it depends on your definition of decent.

s7ryf3925pivug

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I know this might be hard to believe

But over 99% of people are decent folk

Closer to 70% apparently, but 81.31% on boards

Joeseph Balls

"Bob , grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference" - Hulk Hogan

Don't torture yourself OP

McMurphy

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

Awesome. Sometimes I delve deep into the history and make myself extremely upset and angry. I know it's the past but here is my reason for hating people in this world.

Till was born and raised in Chicago and in August 1955, was visiting relatives near Money, in the Mississippi Delta region. He spoke to 21-year-old Carolyn Bryant, the white married proprietor of a small grocery store there. Although what happened at the store is a matter of dispute, Till was accused of flirting with or whistling at Bryant. Decades later, Bryant disclosed that, in 1955, she had fabricated testimony that Till made verbal or physical advances towards her in the store.[1][2] Till's reported behavior, perhaps unwittingly, violated the strictures of conduct for an African-American male interacting with a white woman in the Jim Crow-era South.[3] Several nights after the store incident, Bryant's husband Roy and his half-brother J.W. Milam went armed to Till's great-uncle's house and abducted the boy. They took him away and beat and mutilated him before shooting him in the head and sinking his body in the Tallahatchie River. Three days later, Till's body was discovered and retrieved from the river.

COUNTLESS other hangings and killings of children by grown adults. Oh give me a sec, I'll post a case of where a 12 year old boy was put in an electric chair in good old free United States of America. Oh should I also mention what Japanese did to the Chinese in nanking? You probably don't want to know because if you think nazis were bad then try reading about the nanking massacre. A quick Google and you will see a Japanese officer posing with around 100 heads of decapitated civilians including children. Watching these photos have definitely traumatised me. **** this world and I can guarantee you that if people could get away with this in this time then same things would be happening as well. After all it was the normal less than 100 years ago.

Tl;dr humans are scum and have been throughout the history. I am antisocial because of this. I spend hours reading about these historical events.

Not only that, you see these crowds of idiots smiling in the photos, oh look we just hanged 40 men for no ****ing reason which left children fatherless and widows. Awesome, I swear I would give so much to get back in history. Give me a room and these smiling scum.

I read the book 'the rape of Nanking' and no doubt about it, the Japanese got up to some depraved acts of savagery back then.

However, suggesting things you listed above as being the normal back then is a bit of a stretch, no?

_Brian

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

Awesome. Sometimes I delve deep into the history and make myself extremely upset and angry. I know it's the past but here is my reason for hating people in this world.

Till was born and raised in Chicago and in August 1955, was visiting relatives near Money, in the Mississippi Delta region. He spoke to 21-year-old Carolyn Bryant, the white married proprietor of a small grocery store there. Although what happened at the store is a matter of dispute, Till was accused of flirting with or whistling at Bryant. Decades later, Bryant disclosed that, in 1955, she had fabricated testimony that Till made verbal or physical advances towards her in the store.[1][2] Till's reported behavior, perhaps unwittingly, violated the strictures of conduct for an African-American male interacting with a white woman in the Jim Crow-era South.[3] Several nights after the store incident, Bryant's husband Roy and his half-brother J.W. Milam went armed to Till's great-uncle's house and abducted the boy. They took him away and beat and mutilated him before shooting him in the head and sinking his body in the Tallahatchie River. Three days later, Till's body was discovered and retrieved from the river.

COUNTLESS other hangings and killings of children by grown adults. Oh give me a sec, I'll post a case of where a 12 year old boy was put in an electric chair in good old free United States of America. Oh should I also mention what Japanese did to the Chinese in nanking? You probably don't want to know because if you think nazis were bad then try reading about the nanking massacre. A quick Google and you will see a Japanese officer posing with around 100 heads of decapitated civilians including children. Watching these photos have definitely traumatised me. **** this world and I can guarantee you that if people could get away with this in this time then same things would be happening as well. After all it was the normal less than 100 years ago.

Tl;dr humans are scum and have been throughout the history. I am antisocial because of this. I spend hours reading about these historical events.

Not only that, you see these crowds of idiots smiling in the photos, oh look we just hanged 40 men for no ****ing reason which left children fatherless and widows. Awesome, I swear I would give so much to get back in history. Give me a room and these smiling scum.

Maybe if you stop researching the darker side of humans and did more living it would be a good thing.

You of course could research the good humans of the world, but I suspect that wouldn’t fit into your negative spiral which you seem so intent on following and then sharing with us.

Wibbs

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

I read about all of them. However they are so old, it doesn't have the same effect.

Clearly you haven't as Idi Amin was the 1970's.

Now it's easy to run with the oul angst, but consider this if you're 18 or above not so long ago when childhood mortality rates were so high you wouldn't have even lived to that age. Chances are very high you'll see 80 years old and beyond. Not so long ago your father would have been a physical wreck or dead at fifty from dangerous back breaking work, your mother would have been similar if she survived the pregnancies and brith of your siblings. Your world would have been your village and news of beyond would have been minimal. Angst would have been the preserve of the very wealthy. No one else could have afforded it.

Today here you are in the luxury and time of plenty of modern medicine, social supports, in a safe society, tapping away at your screen or keyboard free to be as angsty as you like.

Sure there are shitholes still around and people can go through very difficult times even in the best places, but bar a few glitches along the way the overwhelming movement in human history has been towards better and better societies. We've a way to go yet but we're on that road.

Omackeral

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

I am antisocial because of this. I spend hours reading about these historical events.

Maybe don’t do that then? Go outside. Check out nature. Talk to sound people.

Wibbs

_Brian wrote: »

You of course could research the good humans of the world, but I suspect that wouldn’t fit into your negative spiral which you seem so intent on following and then sharing with us.

I suspect the OP is young, maybe in their teens. This is a common phase to some degree or other with many in adolescence in the modern world. The Disney certainties of childhood are challenged by the more adult knowledge of a world that isn't so clear cut and safe and the natural reaction to that is to think christ this world is awful and just concentrate on that for a time. It's a part of being young and fair enough. Indeed it's usually this "phase" that leads people to try to make the world a better place, which is also a part of being younger too. The old are usually too busy or their minds too set to even try. So I see this kinda thing as an ultimately optimistic trait.

Timberrrrrrrr

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

I read about all of them. However they are so old, it doesn't have the same effect. These recent events are well documented. Latest I've seen is a HD video of ISIS video of maybe 30 heads placed on the spikes on the fence. Now everytime I walk past a fence, the image is stuck in my head.I've also seen Saudi Arabia behead and hang 4 bodies from a crane just recently beside an university. The heads were placed in bags right beside the bodies. I've also seen another woman beheaded in Saudi Arabia and afterwards her bloody body is left hanging for evryone to see by a belt while her head is placed on the ground beside her hanging body. All these are available on YouTube. I've also seen Iran hang gays from a crane and now everytime I see a crane I have an image of a hanging person in my mind. These things are still happening today.

A: You need to stop watching these video's if they are affecting you like this.

B: You need to get off the juice (going by your name) as it may be having a serious detrimental affect on your mental health.

Le Loup

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

Awesome. Sometimes I delve deep into the history and make myself extremely upset and angry. I know it's the past but here is my reason for hating people in this world.

Till was born and raised in Chicago and in August 1955, was visiting relatives near Money, in the Mississippi Delta region. He spoke to 21-year-old Carolyn Bryant, the white married proprietor of a small grocery store there. Although what happened at the store is a matter of dispute, Till was accused of flirting with or whistling at Bryant. Decades later, Bryant disclosed that, in 1955, she had fabricated testimony that Till made verbal or physical advances towards her in the store.[1][2] Till's reported behavior, perhaps unwittingly, violated the strictures of conduct for an African-American male interacting with a white woman in the Jim Crow-era South.[3] Several nights after the store incident, Bryant's husband Roy and his half-brother J.W. Milam went armed to Till's great-uncle's house and abducted the boy. They took him away and beat and mutilated him before shooting him in the head and sinking his body in the Tallahatchie River. Three days later, Till's body was discovered and retrieved from the river.

COUNTLESS other hangings and killings of  children by grown adults. Oh give me a sec, I'll post a case of where a 12 year old boy was put in an electric chair in good old free United States of America. Oh should I also mention what Japanese did to the Chinese in nanking? You probably don't want to know because if you think nazis were bad then try reading about the nanking massacre. A quick Google and you will see a Japanese officer posing with around 100 heads of decapitated civilians including children. Watching these photos have definitely traumatised me. **** this world and I can guarantee you that if people could get away with this in this time then same things would be happening as well. After all it was the normal less than 100 years ago.

Tl;dr humans are scum and have been throughout the history. I am antisocial because of this. I spend hours reading about these historical events.

Not only that, you see these crowds of idiots smiling in the photos, oh look we just hanged 40 men for no ****ing reason which left children fatherless and widows. Awesome, I swear I would give so much to get back in history. Give me a room and these smiling scum.

I know how you feel. Right now the US government & the Australian government are promoting genocide in West Papua. These people were Australia's allies in WW2, & now they are having men women & children killed for the wealth they can steal from West Papua. Not only is the Australian government training the Indonesian military, but they are also paying them to commit genocide. Meanwhile the rest of the world stays silent. 
It is a sick world we live in when governments can turn a blind eye to this sort of thing. I see all the petitions against live stock exports, & other animal abuse, but nothing about this genocide. This does not bode well for our future.
Keith.

Admin Edit: Graphic images removed.

KathleenGrant

Ah here, sticking up images like that without a warning is not on.

Dyr

I'm not reading all that unless the OP moves to his auntie and uncle in bel air at the end of it

The_Kew_Tour

The_Brood wrote: »

You have seen absolutely noting then and it is utterly sickening that you would defend 99% of the people on this planet and what they are doing.



The human mind, no matter how open, can't even being to comprehend a tiny percentage of the horror on this very planet.


We just say "oh no," sip our coffee, and get on with your day. Pretend to care for a moment before jumping straight back into the delusions of every day life, trying not to think about it. Just because you can't see the horrors in front of your eyes, you think it's ok to ignore them.


To agree with the OP - fcuk this world straight to the deepest portions of hell. By every single last strand of our own human morality, we have utterly and eternally failed.

So what you want me do about it?

Will I Am Not

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

So what you want me do about it?

Read up on it, make yourself really angry and then post on boards about how angry it made you?

Minderbinder

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I know this might be hard to believe

But over 99% of people are decent folk

The scary thing is how many of that 99% will go along with the 1% for reasons of self preservation or how many of them will bury their heads in the sand to avoid confrontation.

Irish Guitarist

Mrtestosterone wrote: »

I read about all of them. However they are so old, it doesn't have the same effect. These recent events are well documented. Latest I've seen is a HD video of ISIS video of maybe 30 heads placed on the spikes on the fence. Now everytime I walk past a fence, the image is stuck in my head. I've also seen Saudi Arabia behead and hang 4 bodies from a crane just recently beside an university. The heads were placed in bags right beside the bodies. I've also seen another woman beheaded in Saudi Arabia and afterwards her bloody body is left hanging for evryone to see by a belt while her head is placed on the ground beside her hanging body. All these are available on YouTube. I've also seen Iran hang gays from a crane and now everytime I see a crane I have an image of a hanging person in my mind. These things are still happening today.

Idi Amin only died in 2003. That's slightly after the abolishment of slavery in America.

It's pretty easy not to see beheadings on YouTube. I've spent hundreds of hours watching Youtube videos and not a single one has had someone being beheaded. Do you not have any other interests that you can watch videos about?

Atoms for Peace

Indonesian is a nation founded on ethnic sublimination and genocide, with the helping hand of Dutch colonialism.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

If you'd stop regurgitating articles from Wiki and look at the whole history of humanity, you'll see there is an underlying force for good and for improvement driving it forward.

An Ri rua

Live animal exports! I had emails from NARA about vegans for choice re the Repeal the 8th. Talk about a contradiction!! Explain that one to a Jain.
Too many animal activists fail to also equally show unconditional compassion to fellow humans.
Life is tough, and complicated. But as a very early poster reminded the OP, focus on the good, surround yourself with good people. Don't try to take on the world. Unless you're Gandhi. Just live right. Don't punish yourself with material like that OP. I used to judge my Granny when I was a politically awakening 12 year old as she loved Upstairs Downstairs and pomp and I, like you, couldn't get enough of the ills of the world. I was new to it. I thought she was failing to stay grounded.
But in time, as I saw real-life horrors like friends and family dying, and worldwide horrors in our own lifetime, I realised that, like her, I could perform tremendous good to those around me and also through my thoughts (that's down to personal belief).
Go easy on yourself. Many just de-sensitise to such things. Rather than that, put your energy to good. I remember sending €300 to Syria when the civil war kicked off. To provide cameras and reporting technology. When gold I owned had risen in price.
So make a decision to do what you can. That is all anyone, including a higher power, expects of you.

Digital_Guy

Seriously, does this topic require its own thread?! There is good and bad in the world and always has been. The vast majority of people are decent folk, so you could probably have wrapped this up with the second post.

Uncharted

Just wondering....... Did you go ahead with the hand shandy stress buster OP?

Could be the makings of ya....

Avatar MIA

OP,

Look up the likes of Da Vinci or Marie Curie .

If you look for hate you'll find it.

elperello

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0vClQa1Hw

Youtube has it's good side.
This is the Bob Dylan song about Emmet Till.

KathleenGrant

OP
Stop reading up on horrors and wailing about badness. Start being the force for good. Ring a relative who might value the call, do a kindness for someone elderly or unwell, help a stranger. Being good combats evil better than worrying about badness.

Mrtestosterone

KathleenGrant wrote: »

OP
Stop reading up on horrors and wailing about badness. Start being the force for good. Ring a relative who might value the call, do a kindness for someone elderly or unwell, help a stranger. Being good combats evil better than worrying about badness.

That's what I try to do most of the days. Helping people makes me really happy and when strangers are nice to me I feel really good as well as I don't expect it.