Feelings on the new JC?

maynooth_rules

My child minder was questioning me yesterday on the new JC. Her child has just completed first year and she is now concerned about the standard of the new JC (think her daughter did English and science as part of the new JC) . I have a feeling that within the next two years there will be a lot of parents who will be highlighting their problems with the new JC. A bit too late unfortunately.

2011abc

The Great Dumbing Down .Squeeze As many as possible into the middle and to hell with the rest ...Sad times .

Icsics

maynooth_rules wrote: »

My child minder was questioning me yesterday on the new JC. Her child has just completed first year and she is now concerned about the standard of the new JC (think her daughter did English and science as part of the new JC) . I have a feeling that within the next two years there will be a lot of parents who will be highlighting their problems with the new JC. A bit too late unfortunately.

Wait until she starts seeing meaningless CBAs on reports & even more meaningless 'grade bands'

mtoutlemonde

Icsics wrote: »

Wait until she starts seeing meaningless CBAs on reports & even more meaningless 'grade bands'

And the charge into the school to see why her little darling wasn't exceptional.
Let alone the 'In line with expectations and Yet to meet expectations' - explain that to someone who is used to and got A,B and C's in their own education.

Icsics

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

And the charge into the school to see why her little darling wasn't exceptional.
Let alone the 'In line with expectations and Yet to meet expectations' - explain that to someone who is used to and got A,B and C's in their own education.

Oh they'll be charging in before that to complain about the 'group' their child is in for CBAs & get them moved !

threetrees

I have a child starting 1st year in September. Most subjects are Junior Cycle now. Can I ask, will there still be Junior Cycle exams in June 2021?

So the June exam combined with project work, oral language, classroom based assesments etc will total to give the new grades?

mtoutlemonde

threetrees wrote: »

I have a child starting 1st year in September. Most subjects are Junior Cycle now. Can I ask, will there still be Junior Cycle exams in June 2021?

So the June exam combined with project work, oral language, classroom based assesments etc will total to give the new grades?

There will in some subjects - may not affect your child depending on their choices.
English has been examined for the past two years.
Science, Business Studies and I think Irish have their second year CBAs done this year so exam next year.
Languages are being introduced for second years this year. I don't know anymore - I'm sure there is a list somewhere.

To answer your second question - yes.

threetrees

Thank you for that detailed reply!

Icsics

threetrees wrote: »

I have a child starting 1st year in September. Most subjects are Junior Cycle now. Can I ask, will there still be Junior Cycle exams in June 2021?

So the June exam combined with project work, oral language, classroom based assesments etc will total to give the new grades?

All exams are worth 90%. First CBA completed in 2nd yr is awarded a 'descriptor' by the teacher & this will appear on ur child's 'JC Achievement Cert'. Second CBA in 3rd yr is worth 10% & corrected by an examiner

freedominacup

silverharp wrote: »

I'm a dad and we were at a presentation by the school laying out what the new JC would be like. I'd be the first to be generally critical of the dumbing down and bet the average 70's or 80's maths and physics papers would be a shock if they came up today. That being said, they sold it well and my son who is going into second year with enjoy the presentation side of things. I wouldn't want to see this system rolled into the LC though because it would affect real learning and water stuff down.
What is the expectation in terms of gaps? will it mean the jump to the LC will be a little wider? will it in any way affect the LC in terms of content or less difficult exams?

Another dad here. My second lad has just finished jc exams. Next child going into second year in Sept. I'm at a loss to understand the entire concept of this exam system. It's obviously given no regard by the education system when for the second year in a row my kids had to select their leaving cert subjects in January of third year. Surely if this exam had any merit subject choices for leaving cert would be delayed until jc results were known and students actual strengths were tested. I'm pretty certain my next child will not sit any terminal exam at the end of third year as in my experience as a student and as a parent it's worthless.

happywithlife

Icsics wrote: »

All exams are worth 90%. First CBA completed in 2nd yr is awarded a 'descriptor' by the teacher & this will appear on ur child's 'JC Achievement Cert'. Second CBA in 3rd yr is worth 10% & corrected by an examiner

Incorrect. Home Ec is being rolled out this sept and their practical compentent has increased to 50% and terminal exam is 50% with 2 CBA's

happywithlife

threetrees wrote: »

I have a child starting 1st year in September. Most subjects are Junior Cycle now. Can I ask, will there still be Junior Cycle exams in June 2021?

So the June exam combined with project work, oral language, classroom based assesments etc will total to give the new grades?

As mtoutlemonde said but I'd add that CBA - Classroom Based Assessments - get a descriptor not a grade. So "yet to meet expectations" "in line with expectations" and so forth

We asked at induction day how this will all play out re results and basically I can't see much a way around it only that you'll end up in time with a 2-3 page results portfolio detailing the grades awarded by SEC and CBA descriptors - and that's assuming they get the timeline sorted. Think our TY'S were nearly graduating by the time they got the school bssed certificate this year but as far as i know the intention is they should go together down the line. (Open to correction of course)

thegreatescape

happywithlife wrote: »

Incorrect. Home Ec is being rolled out this sept and their practical compentent has increased to 50% and terminal exam is 50% with 2 CBA's

The practical component has always been 50% with 35% composing of the practical food exam and 15% for textiles. Textiles is now CBA 1 in 2nd year with CBA 2 in food prepping students for their now 50% food practical exam.

threetrees

Thank you for all that info. Wow CBA in 2nd year, seems so soon and yet good to have a portion under your belt before the June exam.

thegreatescape

threetrees wrote: »

Thank you for all that info. Wow CBA in 2nd year, seems so soon and yet good to have a portion under your belt before the June exam.

You're very welcome! It'll be interesting to see how it plays out with the new specification.

happywithlife

threetrees wrote: »

Thank you for all that info. Wow CBA in 2nd year, seems so soon and yet good to have a portion under your belt before the June exam.

Another thing to be aware of is that most subjects will now be examined as a common level rather than the old pass/higher.
That will cause huge consternation imo going into higher level leaving

evolving_doors

threetrees wrote: »

Thank you for all that info. Wow CBA in 2nd year, seems so soon and yet good to have a portion under your belt before the June exam.

From what I can gather (feel free to correct) the CBA's won't count as part of the 3rd year June final exam grade, the students will instead receive a banding along with their exam grade i.e.

• Failed to meet expectations
• Met Expectations
• Exceeded expectations

What does happen in some subjects is that students receive an Assessment Task (AT) which is basically a reflection style essay/paragraphs on the 2nd CBA they have undertaken in 3rd year. This is collected by the teacher and shipped off to the SEC to be corrected and worth 10% ... the written June exam will be worth 90%.

e.g. have a look at the video for the Business Studies course in the Assessment section https://www.jct.ie/business_studies/an_overview_of_assessment_for_junior_cycle
The other subjects are here so click on any of them then look for the Assessment section. https://www.jct.ie/home/home.php

Not all subjects are like this though.

solerina

threetrees wrote: »

Thank you for all that info. Wow CBA in 2nd year, seems so soon and yet good to have a portion under your belt before the June exam.

Not really, for instance in science we used to have 10% for completion of the mandatory experiments and a further 25% for coursework B which was worthwhile experimental work. Now we have a waste of time CBA in second year which takes 3 weeks and is worth 0% followed by another CBA in third year worth 10%. There was a much larger portion done under the old system.

Nellieelephant

I’m glad to see some parents are now understanding the concerns that teachers have been shouting about since the introduction of the new JC. Is education in Ireland taking a backward step . CBAs now instead of ABCs! I just can’t wait to see all these three week block of CBAs in action for all subjects - but we are told not to worry about them and they are only a snapshot in time.

MathsManiac

solerina wrote: »

Not really, for instance in science we used to have 10% for completion of the mandatory experiments and a further 25% for coursework B which was worthwhile experimental work. Now we have a waste of time CBA in second year which takes 3 weeks and is worth 0% followed by another CBA in third year worth 10%. There was a much larger portion done under the old system.

As previously pointed out, the second CBA is not 'worth 10%'. You may be confusing it with the 'Assessment Task', which is based on it.

Anyway, your assertion that these are 'worth 0%' is not how I would view it. The CBAs and the SEC final exam results will both appear with equal prominence on the 'profile of achievement', which is the nearest equivalent of the old 'cert'. I'm not sure then on what basis you are saying that the CBAs are worth 0%. Sure, they are not being combined with the SEC results to form an overall result, but I could equally well say that the SEC results are worth 0% because they don't contribute to the CBAs.

The CBAs might well tell you more about the student's real capabilities than their exam results. It seems likely that these assessments are at least telling you something quite different about the student than the exam result is. The fact that the CBAs take place over a longer period of time than an exam suggests that, if they are managed properly by the teacher, they can be an authentic reflection of the student's competence at whatever they are about. I suspect that a wise person looking at the profile of achievement might well pay more attention to the CBAs than the exam results. Since they are not being combined according to any formula, the weighting of these two types of assessment relative to each other is in the eye of the beholder.

maynooth_rules

happywithlife wrote: »

Another thing to be aware of is that most subjects will now be examined as a common level rather than the old pass/higher.
That will cause huge consternation imo going into higher level leaving

I've spoken to so many teachers over the past 5 years about the new JC, not once have I heard one of them that think common level papers are a good idea.

spurious

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I've spoken to so many teachers over the past 5 years about the new JC, not once have I heard one of them that think common level papers are a good idea.

They will be ridiculously easy for some (remember the reactions to CSPE, founded on fact or not) and still too difficult for others.

km79

MathsManiac wrote: »

As previously pointed out, the second CBA is not 'worth 10%'. You may be confusing it with the 'Assessment Task', which is based on it.

Anyway, your assertion that these are 'worth 0%' is not how I would view it. The CBAs and the SEC final exam results will both appear with equal prominence on the 'profile of achievement', which is the nearest equivalent of the old 'cert'. I'm not sure then on what basis you are saying that the CBAs are worth 0%. Sure, they are not being combined with the SEC results to form an overall result, but I could equally well say that the SEC results are worth 0% because they don't contribute to the CBAs.

The CBAs might well tell you more about the student's real capabilities than their exam results. It seems likely that these assessments are at least telling you something quite different about the student than the exam result is. The fact that the CBAs take place over a longer period of time than an exam suggests that, if they are managed properly by the teacher, they can be an authentic reflection of the student's competence at whatever they are about. I suspect that a wise person looking at the profile of achievement might well pay more attention to the CBAs than the exam results. Since they are not being combined according to any formula, the weighting of these two types of assessment relative to each other is in the eye of the beholder.

All very well and good BUT then they hit senior cycle............no joined up thinking whatsoever . It's like 2 different education systems for students during their secondary education

evolving_doors

MathsManiac wrote: »

As previously pointed out, the second CBA is not 'worth 10%'. You may be confusing it with the 'Assessment Task', which is based on it.

Anyway, your assertion that these are 'worth 0%' is not how I would view it. The CBAs and the SEC final exam results will both appear with equal prominence on the 'profile of achievement', which is the nearest equivalent of the old 'cert'. I'm not sure then on what basis you are saying that the CBAs are worth 0%. Sure, they are not being combined with the SEC results to form an overall result, but I could equally well say that the SEC results are worth 0% because they don't contribute to the CBAs.

The CBAs might well tell you more about the student's real capabilities than their exam results. It seems likely that these assessments are at least telling you something quite different about the student than the exam result is. The fact that the CBAs take place over a longer period of time than an exam suggests that, if they are managed properly by the teacher, they can be an authentic reflection of the student's competence at whatever they are about. I suspect that a wise person looking at the profile of achievement might well pay more attention to the CBAs than the exam results. Since they are not being combined according to any formula, the weighting of these two types of assessment relative to each other is in the eye of the beholder.

I can see many teachers keeping them sufficiently minimal and bland to avoid a lynching from the 'non-wise' beholder.

solerina

MathsManiac wrote: »

As previously pointed out, the second CBA is not 'worth 10%'. You may be confusing it with the 'Assessment Task', which is based on it.

Anyway, your assertion that these are 'worth 0%' is not how I would view it. The CBAs and the SEC final exam results will both appear with equal prominence on the 'profile of achievement', which is the nearest equivalent of the old 'cert'. I'm not sure then on what basis you are saying that the CBAs are worth 0%. Sure, they are not being combined with the SEC results to form an overall result, but I could equally well say that the SEC results are worth 0% because they don't contribute to the CBAs.

The CBAs might well tell you more about the student's real capabilities than their exam results. It seems likely that these assessments are at least telling you something quite different about the student than the exam result is. The fact that the CBAs take place over a longer period of time than an exam suggests that, if they are managed properly by the teacher, they can be an authentic reflection of the student's competence at whatever they are about. I suspect that a wise person looking at the profile of achievement might well pay more attention to the CBAs than the exam results. Since they are not being combined according to any formula, the weighting of these two types of assessment relative to each other is in the eye of the beholder.

Yes, I know the 10 %is for the assessment task, just forgot that when posting. I have marked the second year CBA and it was a waste of three weeks as far as I could see, I learned nothing except that the better students were able to ‘ meet expectations’ One better student got outside help ( quite obviously, she is good, but not that good) and was ‘ exceptional’ and the weaker students were ‘ yet to meet expectations’. Every student achieved exactly as I would have expected before the start of the three weeks. However I did notice the stress that it put on them and all for 0%.

SligoBrewer

If they got outside help you shouldn't have signed off on it tbh. It's an exam and it's meant to be their own work.
This is why we went on strike. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

amacca

MathsManiac wrote: »

Since they are not being combined according to any formula, the weighting of these two types of assessment relative to each other is in the eye of the beholder.

Yep.....attach as much or as little meaning to these descriptors and numbers as you please beholder. It will be interesting to see how much if anything beyond minimal importance is attached to the result by parents and even the students themselves after a couple of years when the assessment format gets well bedded in.

evolving_doors

SligoBrewer wrote: »

If they got outside help you shouldn't have signed off on it tbh. It's an exam and it's meant to be their own work.
This is why we went on strike. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Knowing that they got outside help is a lot different to proving it.

spurious

evolving_doors wrote:

Knowing that they got outside help is a lot different to proving it.

This is where the much maligned and neglected LCA trumps the suggested 'new' JC. Hard in an interview to spoof your way through explaining how you made/wrote something that's not entirely your own work.

Of course, interviews with an outsider cost money.

solerina

SligoBrewer wrote: »

If they got outside help you shouldn't have signed off on it tbh. It's an exam and it's meant to be their own work.
This is why we went on strike. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I assumed they got outside help, it would t have been possible to prove it, anyway, it was worth 0% so why would I bring that hassle on myself, we have to deal with enough from the parents as it is !!