Looking for buy a small holding in the west of Ireland: seeking advice

James E M

Hello all I am after some advice as a form of 'reality check' for my small holding ideas in Ireland.

I am looking soon to follow my dream and buy myself homestead with land. It looks likely that I will be moving to west Ireland to do this (from the UK) mainly due to the affordability and sparse population. Co Mayo seems to be my most likely destination and it looks great but also potentially poses a few non-trivial challenges. Essentially to am looking to become as self sufficient as realistically possible and to change the style and pace of my life (not silly enough to think I can truly become self reliant but I want to achive a level of satisfaction and control). I would like to check that what I am looking to buy and do is realistically achievable and also ensure I have not overlooked any crucial details. I think I should start off by saying that while my goals are likely quite grand, I am looking at a time scale of about 10 to 15 years in which to slowly build up my homestead to the point to which I am achieving everything that I wish to. Likewise this is not some idle dream but rather extensive work has already gone into this idea and I have sacrificed and worked hard to save up to almost be in a position where I can take the plunge. I am NOT looking to make money from the land nor is this an investment where I believe the land and house will increase in value. This is a lifestyle choice.

Below is an example of the sort of property I am interested in. This example is about 9.5 acres of 'poor land' with an existing dilapidated house. There is a road frontage and it backs onto a river. This place is in Co Mayo, about 35 mins from Castlebar. I know without visiting, the amount of specific advice will be limited but what I am after is more of a general idea that my plans are realistic. I would imagine the site to be pretty wet, acid and peaty.



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Will need to copy and paste that above links. Mod: Images sorted above.

Some of my main concerns are that the land itself may not be suitable, being of a too low a quality; waterlogged, infertile and acidic. It seems reasonable that a kitchen garden should be attainable through the use of raised beds but I would really like to ensure that I can have my orchard as well as grow some cereal crops for my own use and for animal feed i.e. wheat and oats and perhaps barley. Another aim is to create hay but I don't know how realistic this will be in the climate, perhaps silage instead? In any case I would like to think I could eventually be able to feed my animals from my own land during winter. Another important aspect is my desire to be able to have a small orchard with many varieties of tree. I would like to know if my hope to be able to grow several apple, pear & plum verities etc is realistic without major work. Trees for firewood I am quite confident about and understand I should have little problem with them as there are several fast growing species (such as willow, alder and poplar) which are fast growing and stand the wet conditions. No doubt the land can be helped to drain by digging some drainage ditches flowing into the river; some already appear to have been dug.

Most of the land will be given over to planting; trees and shrubs following a permaculture design which I hope should also help transform the land. A small portion will then comprise of the kitchen garden, poly tunnels and orchard and another relatively small area given over to goats and chickens. I plan to keep very few animals and hope to eventually be able to feed them wholly from what is grown on-site. Likewise I hope to eventually grow everything using only fertility (the compost and soil) taken from the site, although I fully accept to begin with that huge amounts of fertility/nutrients will need to be brought from off-site.

I could likely fill a book with my plans but I will stop there as I have likely conveyed my ideas and desires in enough detail to get some response. I know that the west of Ireland is wet, boggy and generally acidic but while it may be highly unsuitable for tillage on a farming scale perhaps it is not such a challenge when growing for one's self.

Thank you very kindly in advance to anyone who takes the time to read and offer advice/their opinion.

20silkcut

Many people survived on an awful lot less than 9 acres in that part of Ireland in pre famine Ireland.
I don’t know a lot about that part of Ireland but what your proposing seems very do-able . And your not looking to make a profit. Although you probably will have good years. Keeping a few goats won’t stretch you that much.
I would wonder though about an orchard and plum trees etc the west of Ireland is not known for being a tree sustaining landscape.

Say my name

It doesn't look to be that bad of a site for what you're planning. It's hard to know from an satellite pic though of the quality of the soil. It has some shelter anyways.
I presume you have finances to renovate the dwelling or build a new one?
This is where these plans can be sunk.
There's an old mill near me bought by an English couple 10 years ago who had great plans to renovate it (it was just the four walls). They've just got the roof on it this last year.

The only thing about mayo is it's remoteness. Now I know you said you're not planning on producing for sale but if plans change in the future just bear that in mind. Although I'm not from that part of the country and it could be a great place with great potential on 'the Wild Atlantic Way'.

If you do start this venture have a look at 'Korean Natural Farming'. Even if you don't start it have a look at it anyway. I've just looked at it from the edges and it interests the hell out of me. It encompasses biochar and 'stone meal' in it's practises which to me couldn't get any better.

Just for your own info there's a couple of females selling organic fresh cut herbs into retail off 2 acres in my own county (wexford). I think they may possibly be fulltime off it. So you'd have 9!!

Anyway best of luck whatever happens.

orchard farm

I admire your enthusiasm and plans.if it's a self sufficient ideal your aiming towards and not afraid of work then the west of Ireland is the best place in the world to do it,just as long as your not coming in with rose tinted glasses and are fully aware that winters are very long and damp,land will need constant attention and you will need a source of income to get you set up.if it's what you want then the rewards and job satisfaction will be immence!good luck ðŸ€
P.s the smallholders board if full of great info

Glass fused light

James E M wrote: »

This is a lifestyle choice.


I know that the west of Ireland is wet, boggy and generally acidic but while it may be highly unsuitable for tillage on a farming scale perhaps it is not such a challenge when growing for one's self.

Its a bigger one as you have to be a master of all trades rather than a specialist of one.

Aging
What age are you
How healthy are you
Why ireland and not remain in the UK
Post brexit what will your rights be for social and medical cover.
Whats the OAP plan (cashing out)

Money
What financial resources do you have to buy the land, animals and machinery. And the long term fencing needed to protect crops and animals.
Can you buy and run a car or pay annual transport costs if you cant drive.
Can you afford to renovate a home and annual upkeep
How are you going to fund yourself in the 10-15 year build up
Ie what is your current cost of living

Farming
Do you know how to store and preserve food
How much land do you need to grow veg that you will eat as 1 person.
Fruit are not without major work spring time needs input and bees, harvest is very labour intensive
What do you intend to do with the orchard produce
ditto for Crops labour, which needs specialist expensive machinery for planting and harvesting and your volume is too small for contrators > what is grown in the area.
Can you mill grains or what will you use this for
Have you ever husbanded animals before and do you understand the skills and costs involved.
Can you kill them for food.
Why goats and chickens what animals are best eg hens ducks turkeys rabbit pigs sheep cows
Goats can be master escape artists and eat your crops
Cattle should not overwinter outside on summer pasture so how much land do you need per animal to feed and crop for a year like this one.

permaculture design can work but take account of labour v machine

Farmer

Personally, I'd be a bit concerned about that house. Alot of this type were made of poured mass concrete with no damp proof or insulation. If it were mine, Id be knocking it to rrplace it with something more energy efficient. I'd like to know I'd get planning permission for whatever you want to do. Budger for sewerage treatment also.

2cents

Never wrestle with pigs

It might be cheaper and put you years ahead if you look into better quality land and house. Dryer more fertile land will grow way more and far easier.

blue5000

Can you talk to anyone who has already tried it? 35 minutes from Castlebar in any direction could be a very depressing place to be from November to April every year.

https://www.met.ie/climate-ireland/1981-2010/belmullet.html

Attached are 30 yr averages for Belmullet, have a look at Knock airport weather as well. There is between 130-145mm of rain per month from oct to mar, and 1.2 approx hours of sunshine per day for the winter months. Find your local UK weather station and see how they compare. Not trying to pee on the parade, but there is a reason parts of Ireland are sparsely populated. Try and avoid a peaty farm if possible.

Found one for Claremorris too....https://www.met.ie/climate-ireland/1971-2000/claremorris.html

James E M

Thank you very much to have replied and provided your input. There is a lot to think about there but I take confidence that nothing has been raised that I have not already considered although certainly I am still unsure exactly how productive this 'farm' will be. The land is at Cloonfallagh if that allows anyone to say with any more certainty.

My budget is quite tight and it becomes a balancing act of deciding whether to spend more years saving to get a more secure option or to buy now to start this very long process. I also can't predict future prices. This property and land is available for thirty five thousand and I have budgeted the same amount again to do the property up (just the building and amenities and not anything to do with farming which is budgeted for separately). Of course I would not buy without first gaining planning permission and knowing the cost to connect any amenities I want. It's cheap. Very cheap. In the UK nothing would come close. This is probably my favourite place I have seen in Ireland so far but far from the only possibility.

Glass fused light wrote: »

Its a bigger one as you have to be a master of all trades rather than a specialist of one.

To answer some of the very useful questions Glass fused light raised:

I'm 25 so young and healthy and in great shape to start this. It takes SO long to get everything established that the sooner I start the better. Of course I have to balance it against my savings. I am doing it in Ireland mainly for the cost. To be truthful I would do it in the UK if I can afford but I simply connect and one of the main motivations is to avoid a life of debt. Ireland speaks English, is close to the UK and is beautiful. It's also under populated. The UK has too many people.

As far as my financial situation and plans as I said I am not fool enough to think I can make a living off my land, certainly not any time soon. I plan to continue working in Ireland, at first full time then moving down to part time once I get established. I should of said that in my original post. I always plan thinking of the worse and the idea is that I will be living a very low expense existence so can survive off a very low income. This includes running the home, car and food costs. I have extensively calculated the costs of living and my budget and always make sure to leave large margins. I would not actually need to grow anything but the whole purpose of this is to be as self sufficient as practicality allows. Being able to save a good pension will require growing most of my own food but plenty of time for that. However I am skilled and work as a software developer.

As for farming I wish I had more experience. I have read a lot and know a lot of theory. I have grown food and preserved it already and have even hand milled some grain (using an electric home miller). Of course what I plan to do in Ireland will be on a different scale and so much of it will be new to me. This is one of the reasons I have given myself such a long period of time to get up and running. I expect failures and steep learning curve at the beginning. All part of the fun I hope. When it come to animals I am deliberately reserved. I have seen that most homesteaders, even those with just a few acres, seem to have loads and loads of animals and it strikes me this must be more from desire than actually usefulness. I want to be able to feed my animals from my own land and not have to go and buy feed each month which somewhat defeats the purpose for me (although fine when first getting started). I want chickens for eggs and goats for milk. Surpluses and older animals can become meat. They will also produce manure for me as a bonus. This will be the starting point and with the amount of land I have the scope for just about anything if the need arises and I wont limit myself.

blue5000 wrote: »

Can you talk to anyone who has already tried it?

Not really and this is one thing I really want to do and why I have asked on here. I have seen the amazing Bealtaine Cottage and have spoken to the one person who created it all and that sounded promising. See bealtainecottage.com. It is slightly not the same thing as I am after but gives my confidence as to what is possible. That's in Co Roscommon and about an hours drive East from the plot I am interested in. I was also hoping by coming on here I might reach someone who has done something similar in the west of Ireland if not Mayo itself.

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

It might be cheaper and put you years ahead if you look into better quality land and house. Dryer more fertile land will grow way more and far easier.

Perhaps but everything I have seen thus far would suggest otherwise. The west is cheap but of course its cheap for a reason. Location location location. I am hoping that as I am farming for only myself the fact that the climate does not lend itself to commercial growing is not really as a large factor. You are very right that the better the climate and land the easier time I will have but I am also trying to balance the cost. I know I want about 5 acres but don't think I can afford it anywhere else in Ireland or the UK. I don't need massive yields and nor would late harvests be as detrimental to me as to commercial growers. I just need to know that what I want to grow can and will grow. Can I grow oats even if the harvest is a month later than the east? Will my fruit trees produce fruit? If I can't be sure of these things then there is a problem.

blue5000 wrote: »

Castlebar in any direction could be a very depressing place to be from November to April every year.

Thanks for this point as I think it is very important and really drills down to my main concern. Fortunately I have had the foresight to look at climate when looking at places to do this (I used to work at the Met Office) and I am not really concerned about the 'depressing' climate from my own well-being perspective but I am concerned about what the wet and cloud mean from my crops. It comes down to the same thing; will all the things I want to grow actually grow? Is it feasible? In many ways Ireland's climate is great. There is amazing water security (although the UK has that also). The winters should be more mild than what I am used to in the UK but I understand they will be darker and much wetter also. I do have concerns about what that wetness will mean for working in the garden. I wont be using much or any machinery mind you. Just about all the work will be manual but working in wet ground may still become an annoyance. I also know from past research that Mayo is not the wettest region of Ireland.

Farmer wrote: »

Personally, I'd be a bit concerned about that house. Alot of this type were made of poured mass concrete with no damp proof or insulation.

This is an area I am less concerned with but thanks for raising it. The house is made of stone although I am unsure of the current render. I think of the structure as more of a shell and as a means to grain planning permission. It is my aim to externally insulate the walls with a breathable insulation and render. This conserves space inside and worked very well with the stone which, while not a great insulator, has a very high thermal mass. When combined with heating small rooms I actually envision a very efficient home. I am quite confidence about this. The house will need a new roof. The problems with such a building is many of these style cottages were built with no foundation. That is not ideal. I don't know if that is the case for this property but will of course no prior to purchase but if its stood for this long... The other issue are the connected amenities. I have been advised they are present but don't yet know the exact cost to have them connected. I am waiting to hear back.

Thanks again for all the replies so far. They have been very useful but I am still not wholly confident. It sounds like it is very doable but I need to be very aware of the realities.

Sorry for my massive response but I wanted to address all the point. Does anyone know of anyone who has done something like this in west Ireland? I would love to be able to talk to someone.

TwoOldBoots

Theres a similar property around me, roughly 18 acres with a country type bungalow. Thing is the same property has been bought and sold about 5 times in the last 20 years. The last time to an English couple who liked the idea and the price of the property. But they didn't last, the reality of living in the west of Ireland is far different from the fantasy they originally had. As they said themselves there was people in the area but they never met or saw anyone. Everyone was gone working during the week even the farmers. It was a lonely place for them. Not that the locals are not nice people, it's just everyone is gone most of the time. Very little community left in these places, roads are dangerous to walk on, the place was very expensive to live when you factor in the costs of living out of town.
And the other thing they hated was the constant rain for months on end during the winter, it made them depressed they said.
I have to agree with them about that!

Del2005

blue5000 wrote: »

Can you talk to anyone who has already tried it? 35 minutes from Castlebar in any direction could be a very depressing place to be from November to April every year.

OP I can't repeat how bad a place it is. My parents are both from the area but have been in Dublin for nearly 50 years. For a long time when I was younger my Father had the dream of returning to the family farm in later life. A good few years ago my Uncle, who ran the farm, got seriously ill and my Father had to move down for several months to keep the farm going and look after their Mother. He's not the most social person and even he found it depressing as there is no one around. He now has the farm and its like a mil stone around his neck.

There's a reason why land is cheap in that area. But on a side note there are loads of UK expats living in area, a rather grumpy co worker from the area has a regular moan about it.

forgottenhills

Hello James. I am a long term browser of this forum and felt inspired to answer your interesting posts. First of all good luck with your plans. You have had some very good replies already on this thread offering sound advice.

I am middle aged but after growing up on a farm and knowing what it entails I also have the perspective of someone who moved away from the land and worked in IT so I am going to give you some different ideas from my experience and thoughts on a different plan that you could give some thought to. I am also basing my thoughts on the facts that you have supplied, for instance that you are quite young, you work in software and you haven't much real experience yet of farming or growing food on any real scale. But that's no problem - we all have to start somewhere! Also I am not sure if you have much experience of Ireland or even of rural life, whether in the UK or Ireland and this is an important change factor that you mustn't underestimate.

My advice to you would be the following. First of all I would suggest easing yourself into this way of life on a gradual basis if possible as you will be taking on a huge challenge. You say that you work in software. You can leverage this to achieve your dreams. You may not be aware of this but there is a large software industry in Ireland. Even though 90% of it is based in Dublin it is still possible for an IT person to pick up a job in large towns or the small cities on the Irish west coast such as Limerick, Galway or Sligo. Or even in towns in Ireland such as Waterford, Kilkenny or Athlone which have better climates and land than the West of Ireland. Living in the outskirts of any of these towns you are within 5-10 minutes drive of very rural areas with good land for growing the type of crops/vegetables you are considering.

So what I would suggest is - try to move to an IT job anywhere in one or other of these towns. In that job you will be learning about living in semi-rural Ireland while saving €25k or so a year if you are frugal! In your spare time you could rent an allotment or volunteer for some part time work with a local garden centre or vegetable farmer so that you can pick up real life growing skills. Perhaps you could get a chance to work with animals as well. The likes of sheep, pigs or hens are tricky enough to look after properly for a novice, they need proper fencing and can die of several diseases that you need to get up to speed on and recognise early.

So in my view it could be possible for you to be learning about living in a rural-ish Irish area, learning about farming, learning about land, all of this while retaining a lifeline to a steady job with which you can put together a larger fund to buy a better plot of land when you are 30 or so, but critically when you have perhaps worked out definitively that this life is for you.

Like others on this thread I would be wary of trying to grow these crops in somewhere like that location in Mayo with all due respect to areas like that where land might look cheaper than other areas. I was born in an area with very mixed land and there is a huge difference between the good and the bad. You need to get up to speed in land/soil types and potential but a good rule of thumb is to avoid try buying and cultivating where you see a lot of rushes, ferns or rocks on the land. This is a very bad sign for suitability of land and future hardship you will have. Leave these fields to sheep/conifers!

Best of luck with your plans. But take baby steps and remember Rome wasn't built in a day. My core advice is to hold onto and leverage your day job for as long as you can while you investigate the feasibility of your dreams as there is nothing more reassuring than steady money coming in, rain, hail or shine and you will appreciate this more and more as you get older.

jimini0

Del2005 wrote: »

OP I can't repeat how bad a place it is. My parents are both from the area but have been in Dublin for nearly 50 years. For a long time when I was younger my Father had the dream of returning to the family farm in later life. A good few years ago my Uncle, who ran the farm, got seriously ill and my Father had to move down for several months to keep the farm going and look after their Mother. He's not the most social person and even he found it depressing as there is no one around. He now has the farm and its like a mil stone around his neck.

There's a reason why land is cheap in that area. But on a side note there are loads of UK expats living in area, a rather grumpy co worker from the area has a regular moan about it.

Jesus is this a bash the West of Ireland thread???!!
Because your father cannot hack it down here does not mean people can't bloody survive here. As you said he lived 50 years in Dublin. It's a bit of a change moving from the holy grail of the big smoke to the wild west. If everybody had that attitude about the West of Ireland nobody would live here. So with your thoughts maybe we should plant the lot in forestry and move to the big smoke and have an easy life. Overcrowd the city and surrounding areas with culchies. Dragging our heavy boots and wellies into your artisan coffee shops and cafes. Stealing your jobs and women.

OR maybe we will just stay in the West. Rear our families. Educate our kids so they can can have a future. Keep the local economy ticking over. Talk to our neighbours. Farm our poor land to the best of our capabilities. AND BUY A good pair of waterproofs.

80sDiesel

We recently sold a very steep parcel of land ( 6 acres ) in the South East within your price range. No farmer was interested as you couldn't use a tractor on it. But. For your enterprise it would have been perfect. 
Free draining ( gravity is your friend ) and lovely views to help soothe those burning calf muscles. 
So i would look into steep ground which would suit a self sustaining lifestyle.

_Brian

Honestly I think OP would be better with 3 acres in more hospitable area than 9 in Mayo.

For growing veg, fruits, cereals being in the West will limit everything you try. Between poor land and bad long winters it will be much more of an uphill battle than expected.

ChippingSodbury

jimini0 wrote: »

Jesus is this a bash the West of Ireland thread???!!
Because your father cannot hack it down here does not mean people can't bloody survive here. As you said he lived 50 years in Dublin. It's a bit of a change moving from the holy grail of the big smoke to the wild west. If everybody had that attitude about the West of Ireland nobody would live here. So with your thoughts maybe we should plant the lot in forestry and move to the big smoke and have an easy life. Overcrowd the city and surrounding areas with culchies. Dragging our heavy boots and wellies into your artisan coffee shops and cafes. Stealing your jobs and women.

OR maybe we will just stay in the West. Rear our families. Educate our kids so they can can have a future. Keep the local economy ticking over. Talk to our neighbours. Farm our poor land to the best of our capabilities. AND BUY A good pair of waterproofs.

I think the point is that to an outsider, it may seem idyllic from a distance but living in some of these communities is very different to a more urban lifestyle. I moved "home" to the West from living in Dublin for more than 10 years a couple of years ago and it's the best thing I ever did, especially for rearing a family.
ForgottenHills made some very good points regarding moving here and trying it out for a while before going in all guns blazing. You're in an ideal employment sector to work remotely, just watch that you have access to good broadband before you settle somewhere. Sligo just announced a new Australian software outfit setting up last month: they will be looking for 30-50 developers over the next year or so.
I'd also echo the other posters here who are saying to try and buy better quality land. You can improve neglected land but it's extremely difficult to improve poorly drained/ poor soil quality.

There's an old saying in Ireland too: go east for horses and west for women!!

forgottenhills

80sDiesel wrote: »

We recently sold a very steep parcel of land ( 6 acres ) in the South East within your price range. No farmer was interested as you couldn't use a tractor on it. But. For your enterprise it would have been perfect. 
Free draining ( gravity is your friend ) and lovely views to help soothe those burning calf muscles. 
So i would look into steep ground which would suit a self sustaining lifestyle.

I'm not sure that pointing this young lad towards steep ground is a good idea. Also when he doesn't yet seem to have the experience of any sort of scale of cultivation and the work required, particularly initially to prepare ground.

In my view this lad who says he is a software developer can get an IT job initially in Ireland while learning about farming and growing in his spare time. Software development is a good paying job and you can easily put some decent money together. In my view when this lad buys some land he should look to buy a small old tractor with a few basic bits of machinery such as an old 2 furrow plough, harrow, roller, transport box etc. which you can't use easily on steep land. He could probably buy all of these for less than €10k. Think about how much easier his life will be with these mechanical aids for even 1 acre of cultivation. Facing into cultivating even 1 acre with only a shovel and spade in virgin ground would be no joke, in fact pure hardship when there is a much easier alternative he should be easily able to fund.

tractorporn

Why do you have to purchase land straight away? Could you not rent a field and try out your ideas. That way if it's successful you'll know that the way of life your looking for is achievable if the lands not good enough and it won't work you can walk away without too many ties to the land.

J.pilkington

@OP first of all €35k isn’t going to do much in terms of turning that property into something habitual. Honestly looks only good for knocking.

It sounds like you have near €100k to invest, are you willing to write off a chunk of this if this doesn’t work out for you to allow you sell and walk away?

You are a young 25 years old, have you thought about where you want your life to go? Do you want to meet a life partner, it will be hard (but not impossible) to do so living the life you dream of and things could all change if you want to start a family who need providing for.

Doctors room ghost

Rushes all over the place and a ghost looking out the sitting room window in the picture.
And a flat roof that will break your heart at every opportunity.

TomOnBoard

As part of your due diligence, get a soil test done. Grain crops won't do well there, but theres no reason why fruits that are reasonably native to the area wouldn't do OK. Your normal Summer vegs will thrive if you use the no-dig gardening method and can get loads of cow-sh!te from local farmers. Winter vegs such as kales, cabbage and other leafy greens are doable also, but they'll be slower. When/if you can afford a poly tunnel, youll get an extra month of productivity on each end of the growing season, as well as having a warm and comfortable place to work when its p!ssing down outside. P!anting rows of willows to deliniate the fields into growing and stocking parcels will give you shelter and drainage as well as firewood every 5 years. Plant in rotation and you can have heating material every year. Contact Teagasc for further advice in all these areas, and follow smallholder forums here.

Check Broadband availability and quality at that site. Rural BB is dreadful in many parts of Ireland. If you are even thinking of IT work I can't see how you could progress that career without access to reliable BB. It doesn't need to be Gigabit, but a reliable reasonably fast connection would be required.

Your 35k budget for renovation and amenities is very low IMHO, even if you do a lot of the work yourself.

You will make very limited progress on your own, while working as well, if you're doing everything by hand on 9 acres. It will break you heart!!! A small 4x4 tractor (20-30) hp with a back box and flail mower at a minimum I feel. You'll need a car out there- tax & insurance alone will cost you perhaps 1500-2000 a year for a 10 year old, a bit less (in motor tax) if registered after July 2008.

These a just a few thoughts to add to the advice previously given

HTH

monseiur

James lad you're going about it the wrong way by thinking inside the box. Hop outside the box for a minute and consider this alternative.
You're young and I'm assuming single, footloose and fancy free.
Move over to Dublin, loads of good jobs here in IT - 90% of jobs are currently being filled by non nationals.
When settled, immerse yourself in the city's very lively social scene. Visit a certain very popular establishment called Copper Faced Jacks - there you'll meet loads of young, single, fresh faced country girls - nurses, teachers, civil servants etc. etc. and the majority have one thing in common, to meet a tall, dark and handsome man, settle down, preferable in their home place and start producing the next generation etc. etc.
This is where it gets interesting.....a large percentage of these girls come from a farming background and are in line to inherit the family farm or else have an old bachelor uncle with a big farm and even bigger bank account the will eventually fall into the lap of one these girls.
Having an English/foreign accent is a major bonus, Irish girls fall for it all the time -fact !
It will take you some time and numerous visits to Coppers to separate the wheat form the chaff...pardon the deliberate gardening pun, but it's doable and through the magic of marriage you'll end up with a farm and financial security beyond your current wildest dreams......and something to keep you warm at night
Who said love is blind ???

James E M

Thanks all for the many replies. I am humbled that my post has caused so much interest. I will try to respond to the many points raised. Also there seems to be quite a lot of differing of opinion which is interesting.

I am very grateful for every reply so far but have noticed that the conversation has focused more on the areas such as the realities of living out in the west, the direction of my career and life as a whole. All are fair points and need careful consideration but I made this post hoping to focus more on the piratical sides of farming a plot of land as shown in the OP. This is my fault and should of made it more clear what advice I was looking for. I was and still am hoping to speak to people with experience trying to do this sort of thing. Surely there are a great many people who are growing vegetables, fruits and nuts in Mayo and the surrounding counties? Perhaps the fact that I am finding it hard to find such people is a clear message!

I know my plans do sound very ambitious and they will be an extraordinary amount of work. The main way in which I will manage this is time. Firstly I have given myself over a decade in which to get established and secondly the fact that I will be working part time means I can work steadily and hopefully continually. Running the risk of repeating myself, my overall main aim to be grow almost all my own food on site. In reality no doubt I will supplement it with stuff purchased but the aim is I will produce a large surplus. Ultimately I want to know whether I will be able to grow the stuff I dream of.

Herbs (basil, bay, chives, mint, dill, garlic etc, anything I can grow!)
Salads (all varieties that will grow!)
Root vegetables such as potatoes, radish, swede, turnip, parsnip, carrot etc
Brassica such as sprouts, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, kale, choy etc
Legumes (peas and beans)
Cucurbitaceae (cucumber, courgette, squash, pumpkin etc)
Fruit trees (apple, pear, plum, damson, cherry, gauge, mulberries and even apricots, peaches and nectarines in a poly tunnel)
Fruit bushes (blackberry, blueberry, raspberry etc)
And finally a small amount of tillage. About 0.08 acres of oats and about the same again of wheat.

I plan to have at least one poly tunnel, probably several. I can start small and increase as required. The way I see it

I could go on but I think I've probably labored the point. Is this stuff grown in west Ireland in the home garden setting? Despite the plethora of variety I'm after the actual scale remains quite small; beds of vegetables and single fruit trees (or more when required for pollination). Yields don't need to be high but I would still hope I would have a large surplus. I don't need prize vegetables and fruit but they do need to grow fairly consistently, reach maturity and taste good! Each fruit tree would hopefully produce more than I could ever eat alone. Same goes for the fruit bushes and the vegetables. Its just a case of how many I choose to grow and assuming I can produce or procure enough compost/manure. It would be just a vegetable garden at the end of the day. Does the climate not accommodate that?

Finally while I do have 9.5 aces of land only a small amount is really to be actively managed; the vegetable garden, the orchard and animals/pasture. I could do this on probably less than even three acres going by my research. The vast vast vast majority of the land will be turned over to planing. This will mainly be fast growing trees for firewood but also a mix of different species to create a wonderful woodland for wildlife. A large chunk of the land will then follow a permaculture design (which is really just even more planting). This should be all (fairly) passive relative to the intensive fruit, veg and animals. Having such a large amount of land also means I have all the space I could ever hope to expand into. Rather have all this space then buy 3 acres and in 15 years wish I had more when I decide I want a cow.

On a side note how does west Cork compare to Mayo in terms of vegetable growing?

Perhaps I should ask for this thread to be moved into the smallholding board?

Thank you all again for the replies so far.

greysides

James, I'll leave this thread here for a while to garner what replies it will after your last post. PM me in a day or two if you want it moved then.

_Brian

One or two good sized commercial grade polytunnels would grow everything you mention above, it’s likely you’d need to import good quality soil to get proper crops, expensive but not prohibitively so.

As for fruit trees, they would need to be carefully planted so as to avoid the late spring frosts if possible. We have a dozen planted here in Cavan and most years since we planted the late frosts ruin the blossoms and so crops are small, the trees are still young though.

I’ll not comment on the social side of things as some people love the solitude that living in remote areas brings.

Often with older houses there will be a garden close to the house that in the past has been cultivated to grow spuds and veg, this will likely be the most fertile piece of ground in your holding through years of enrichment and tilling.

I can see now with plans for forestry why 9acres is appealing and it sounds like a nice plan.

I think if you go the route of decent quality tunnels you could be growing a huge proportion of your veg quite quickly.

forgottenhills

James I'll speak a little to the more specific questions raised in your last post from my memories growing up on a farm.

First of all soil types can vary a great deal in Ireland from one county to the next, even from one farm to the next in a parish, or even within a farm itself! If you can get some good local advice on soil and land quality when purchasing a specific piece of land that would be useful. In the past there was some sort of tillage carried out on a field or two of the majority of farms in the country (the best fields) which could give a clue as to which fields could be ok. In fact all Irish farmers had to do some tillage during the 2nd World War as far as I understand. However in the last 50 years or so all major commercial tillage in the country is generally confined to the East and South of the country (I know there are a few exceptions to this) where soil types, drainage and climate are most suitable for commercial large scale heavily mechanised production.

My own father had a very large vegetable garden and also planted a field or two of potatoes and barley or oats. This was in the Leitrim/Longford area, a good bit inland from Mayo. There was good deep dark soil in the areas planted and decent drainage which was key, although there was a lot of rain and land could get wet and sticky at times. But all vegetables he planted such as cabbages, kale, turnips, carrots, onions, herbs etc did very well as did oats, barley and fruits such as raspberries, gooseberries, blackcurrants and apple trees. He used a plastic tunnel for tomatoes.

However as the last poster pointed out these fields had probably been planted for generations and had been improved by heavy manure application etc over the years. Many other fields on the farm were either rocky or too hilly or had horrible grey soil if you dug down a foot or so and probably would have been poor for tillage. For sure my dad wouldn't attempt any tillage in a field with rushes etc indicating poor drainage and probably poor soil, something which would be well understood by generations of farmers on the land. Southerly aspect is another very important point to consider for land for tillage in marginal areas. One other rule of thumb is to look for big deciduous trees on land, that is usually a sign of decent and deep soil and these can provide shelter from prevailing winds. If I didn't see a good few nice big trees and strong hedges on land I was buying to grow stuff on I would be concerned about soils and wind strength in that area.

Also in most of Ireland, particularly the northern half, once you come significantly inland you get harsher frosts than you find on areas closer to the coasts. So a shorter growing season and risk of damage to early crops.

I don't know much about land quality in West Cork but for certain because of the effect of the Gulf Stream that area would have a milder winter than further north and inland in the country and thus a longer growing season.

RIGOLO

To some degree Ive been there and done this in a prior life.... ive hacked about for various periods in both a small holding in West Cork and a woodland in Galway. 
Theres a whole host of people, organisations, resources, books on the interweb connected specifically to what you are attempting to do and specifically related to doing it in Ireland, whether its north, south east or west of the country. 
in no particular order get your hands on Michael Viney 'Another life' and 'Reflections on Another Life' , he wrote the bible about all aspects of living on a small holdings in Mayo. Also Trevor norton wrote 'Reflections on a summer sea' an English mans take of life in west cork doing marine research, a great book it will explain some of the mindset differences of Irish and english.
TheHollies in Enniskeane West Cork  
Joy Larkom, one of your own from the UK, the doyen of Orgnic small-holdings , has settled into a small holding in West Cork 
The Organic Center in Leitrim  , Cloughjordan EcoVillage, 
Track down Rob Hopkins in the UK , 'Transition Network' based out of Totnes, he gave the Irish small holding a good crack in the 90s.... the list goes on and on ..
You sound like you have done a Permaculture brief, based on your description of what you want to do, growing and planting wise.
But an A4 plan does not transfer onto an Acre of land.  Its naive to think you can grow everything, but at the same time its noble to aspire to grow as much as you can. 
So yes you can grow enough to survive, with variety, but the location of the West , or the south will affect what you grow. Plus within that the site specific factors will also come into play. 
The resources I mention above will guide you . 
Perhaps you should try small holding forum for more advice. 
Id highly recommend you give it a lash , dont expect the perfect opening or oppurtunity to pop up, just go for it and take a leap of faith . One door into the small holding world will open up many more you never dreamed existed. 
Keep the hook into the IT world if you can, theres alot to be said for a steady wage. 
Feel free to PM if you have more questions , or keep it in the forum for open discussion. Different things suit different folks, so dont be put off if someone doesnt like what your trying todo.
Very interesting discussion, best of luck.

Glass fused light

I think that you should look at taking a year or two out now to work in the areas you need experience in. If you worked part time you could still protect your investment capital.
Working for a commercial grower or a small market gardener or even on a UK heritage estate where they have brought the stately home garden back into commercial production would give you invaluable knowledge about what and where to grow.
And somewhere like a petting farm would give you exposure to a diverse range of animals.

Birdnuts

I grew good cabbages and carrots in shallow degraded peaty soil in North Mayo - though the carrots looked more like turnips as they grew horizontally rather than vertically!!:o

TomOnBoard

Some great advice here. I'm always impressed with the detail that ppl are willing to go into and the typing effort they make to advise and help out a complete anonymous stranger. Well done, all..

For reading/research, I'd add Charles Dowding 'no-dig' experiences into the mix. It's amazing what he has done on less than an acre.

James E M

_Brian wrote: »

One or two good sized commercial grade polytunnels would grow everything you mention above, it’s likely you’d need to import good quality soil to get proper crops, expensive but not prohibitively so.

As for fruit trees, they would need to be carefully planted so as to avoid the late spring frosts if possible. We have a dozen planted here in Cavan and most years since we planted the late frosts ruin the blossoms and so crops are small, the trees are still young though.

I think if you go the route of decent quality tunnels you could be growing a huge proportion of your veg quite quickly.

Thanks for this. Very useful. Some crops I expect to have to grow under cover but certainly I would hope to be able to grow most outside. Of course everything will do better under cover but I don't want everything to have to grow under plastic. If I understand correctly Ireland has generally mild winters and cool summers which is quite good and relative to most places in the UK should be much kinder when it comes to frost. Mayo, which I believe is in a hardiness zone of 9b, should be less early frost prone than most places in the UK. It's relatively near the coast so temperatures should be more stable even if it does mean more rain. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong.

RIGOLO wrote: »

To some degree Ive been there and done this in a prior life.... ive hacked about for various periods in both a small holding in West Cork and a woodland in Galway.

Id highly recommend you give it a lash , dont expect the perfect opening or oppurtunity to pop up, just go for it and take a leap of faith . One door into the small holding world will open up many more you never dreamed existed.

Thanks for this really specific information and reading list. This was just what I was after. I have really struggled to find material specific to where I am hoping to do this. How was your small holding experience?

Glass fused light wrote: »

I think that you should look at taking a year or two out now to work in the areas you need experience in. If you worked part time you could still protect your investment capital.

I have toyed many times with this idea and it is very appealing. Ultimately I felt that I could not justify taking full time out to do this as it is considerably more beneficial to keep saving. I will have a look for schemes that I can do in my free time. What ever my plan I will always working and that will most likely be in IT. Financially I should not fail. If I were to run out of money I would have the option to wait and save more but that will hopefully not be necessary.

Birdnuts wrote: »

the carrots looked more like turnips as they grew horizontally rather than vertically!!:o

Haha any idea why? Soil too compact or too shallow?

TomOnBoard wrote: »

For reading/research, I'd add Charles Dowding 'no-dig' experiences into the mix. It's amazing what he has done on less than an acre.

Thanks this is music to my ears as I am already a huge fan of Mr Dowding and have some of his books. I plan to follow this methods by first creating lazy beds/raised beds, improving the soil with compost/manure, then growing. His no dig method does not seem to improve yields but it dose not decrease them either so same yield for a fraction of the work.