Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Trigger

TitianGerm wrote: »

If your WBs are cutting in you can have you 10 and 2nd striker run wide as well though.

Just solve all problems by getting Lingard and Pogba to score 40 yard screamers!!

It won’t really work, the middle just becomes too congested, I’m a huge advocate for a diamond with our team, but the main sticking point would be the need to bring in 2 attacking fullbacks, like Sandro on the left, and Vrsaljko on the right. None of this happened though so if we do see a diamond with what we have it’s just not going to work. It’s basically the same as 352 for the need of attacking WB in that formation

SK1979

Is there any chance of Perisic being available? Is he back from the world cup yet?

I'd be happy with him alone to be honest.

Trigger

SK1979 wrote: »

Is there any chance of Perisic being available? Is he back from the world cup yet?

I'd be happy with him alone to be honest.

He’s been hinting about a move in the media the last couple of days, then today he was flirting with Bayern as Kovac is the manager there and he was saying he cradits him with a lot, and would like to play for him etc etc..

Lithium93_

Well we know at least one of the permanent squad numbers for the coming season.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1026210361328979969

It's official - @MarcusRashford is #MUFC's new no.10! ��

Trigger

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well we know at least one of the permanent squad numbers for the coming season.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1026210361328979969

Zerkium93_

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Zerkium93_

In fairness the others were posted when the match was on....... he was probably asleep.

bassy

Quite simple city will defend the title as back 2 back winners.no one has really improved with transfers apart from Liverpool being the big spenders this summer.

So for me no contest yet again this season..........

titan18

pjohnson wrote:

And posting about previous windows spending is equally pointless. James Maddison moved for 20m, Danny Ward cost 12m, Angus Gunn 13.5m.....players who had ONE good season in the second tier of English football.

We could have bought players this summer that went for decent prices that would have fixed some of our issues.

Malcom - 41m
Bonucci - 35m
Digne - 20m
Vidal - 18m
Vrsaljko - Loan


Bunch of youngsters that went too that would have been useful, or even guys at low values whod be decent squad options.

Look at Juves transfers this summer. Ronaldo, Cancelo, Bonucci, Costa, Perin, Can. Even outside of Ronaldo, that's serious business and none of whom were overpays

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Pep bought 20 players in that time. Nearly two first 11s.

City bought 20 players. Half of them were never near the first team

bangkok

titan18 wrote: »

We could have bought players this summer that went for decent prices that would have fixed some of our issues.

Malcom - 41m
Bonucci - 35m
Digne - 20m
Vidal - 18m
Vrsaljko - Loan


Bunch of youngsters that went too that would have been useful, or even guys at low values whod be decent squad options.

Look at Juves transfers this summer. Ronaldo, Cancelo, Bonucci, Costa, Perin, Can. Even outside of Ronaldo, that's serious business and none of whom were overpays

Malcom... gamble

Bonucci.... was never leaving italy

Digne.....not good enough

Vidal....too old

Vrsaliko...not good enought

So only out of that list malcom was the only one worth the bother

jayo26

titan18 wrote: »

We could have bought players this summer that went for decent prices that would have fixed some of our issues.

Malcom - 41m
Bonucci - 35m
Digne - 20m
Vidal - 18m
Vrsaljko - Loan


Bunch of youngsters that went too that would have been useful, or even guys at low values whod be decent squad options.

Look at Juves transfers this summer. Ronaldo, Cancelo, Bonucci, Costa, Perin, Can. Even outside of Ronaldo, that's serious business and none of whom were overpays

That's assuming that all them players would join us?
Malcolm and Vidal went to Barcelona
Bonuci went back to a club he loves.

We need a eight winger over all the position and not one right winger has moved this summer that you could say yes he would be a stat in our team.

I believe Malcolm would of improved us I said it months ago but he isn't guaranteed either the only player you could say that we could sign and would instantly make us challengers would be bale in my opinion and that's not hapening.

fatherted1969

Instead of complaint just embrace Jose Mourinho's 3rd season in charge, it's not like you've never seen it before

Minderbinder

bassy wrote: »

Quite simple city will defend the title as back 2 back winners.no one has really improved with transfers apart from Liverpool being the big spenders this summer.

So for me no contest yet again this season..........

Liverpool are the only side capable of causing City to sweat.

As small time as it sounds, I’m having a real conflict in my mind to find any reason why I shouldn’t hope for City to win every game in the league starting next week.

bangkok

Mufc key moments in the game tonight... all bayern chances. ****ing pathetic

I.dont personally know any united fan that is happy with jose as boss any more and that is saying a lot

Cantona's Collars

How did the game go? I was drinking all evening.

bucketybuck

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Instead of complaint just embrace Jose Mourinho's 3rd season in charge, it's not like you've never seen it before

Might as well embrace it, this window has damn sure made certain its his last.

Giggsy11

Our game is so cowardly and pathetic against good teams. It's like we don't even train to retain possession, it's all about defend deep, hoof and hope.

If we miss Lukaku because of injury/suspension then we won't get anything from big games. Without big man, Jose's hoof ball doesn't work against big teams.

What an awful return to the money spent. People say how others have title winning squads and good players but conveniently forget that their coaches are getting best out of players, so obviously they look better than ours, who are trained to run after loose balls like dogs.

Anyways on positive side, preseason means nothing. We still have players like Pogba, Lukaku, Matic to come back. Hopefully we will start the season like we did last season. Need something positive to kick on.

Not 100% on the source, but not a surprising comment if true...

https://twitter.com/cmwinterburn/status/1026157763783741440

Mourinho, "The other clubs are stronger or they have already fantastic teams like Chelsea, Spurs and City. Liverpool is buying everything and everybody. If we don't make our team better it will be a difficult season for us."


The bolded part has been known for at least 6 months. So I wonder what specifically failed this Summer considering we knew we needed to build on last season with some important new players.

I mean beyond just 'Woodward'; Is he penny pinching? Is he executing the orders of the Glazers? Is he shít at endearing our targets to the club? Or do our targets just not want to play for United?

Trigger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not 100% on the source, but not a surprising comment if true...

https://twitter.com/cmwinterburn/status/1026157763783741440

Mourinho, "The other clubs are stronger or they have already fantastic teams like Chelsea, Spurs and City. Liverpool is buying everything and everybody. If we don't make our team better it will be a difficult season for us."


The bolded part has been known for at least 6 months. So I wonder what specifically failed this Summer considering we knew we needed to build on last season with some important new players.

I mean beyond just 'Woodward'; Is he penny pinching? Is he executing the orders of the Glazers? Is he shít at endearing our targets to the club? Or do our targets just not want to play for United?

I can’t remember the exact quote but Phil Jones was on MUTV and says this

“I’m excited for the new season, we have a few new faces and will probably have one or two more” (paraphrasing)

That to me sounds like that there is two deals nearly done, so hopefully see some movement and give us something to be excited about after that ****show last night

Giggsy11

astradave wrote: »

I can’t remember the exact quote but Phil Jones was on MUTV and says this

“I’m excited for the new season, we have a few new faces and will probably have one or two more” (paraphrasing)

That to me sounds like that there is two deals nearly done, so hopefully see some movement and give us something to be excited about after that ****show last night

Yeah Jones said that but don't think he knew anything. It looked more like a guess. Hopefully he knows something and we sign CB and RW. Saying CB as Jose is desperate for one.

adox

Deleted User wrote: »

Not 100% on the source, but not a surprising comment if true...

https://twitter.com/cmwinterburn/status/1026157763783741440

Mourinho, "The other clubs are stronger or they have already fantastic teams like Chelsea, Spurs and City. Liverpool is buying everything and everybody. If we don't make our team better it will be a difficult season for us."


The bolded part has been known for at least 6 months. So I wonder what specifically failed this Summer considering we knew we needed to build on last season with some important new players.

I mean beyond just 'Woodward'; Is he penny pinching? Is he executing the orders of the Glazers? Is he shat endearing our targets to the club? Or do our targets just not want to play for United?

Yep. That was a pre match comment from an interview in the tunnel on MUTV from German TV(in English).

adox

astradave wrote: »

I can’t remember the exact quote but Phil Jones was on MUTV and says this

“I’m excited for the new season, we have a few new faces and will probably have one or two more” (paraphrasing)

That to me sounds like that there is two deals nearly done, so hopefully see some movement and give us something to be excited about after that ****show last night

Think he said “hopefully” rather than “ probably” but think he was just giving a stock answer to bing asked about the window.

S.M.B.

Let's hope Rashford continues to improve as him getting the number 10 jersey should put those "Rashford unhappy and looking for move" stories to bed for now.

limnam

Minderbinder wrote: »

As small time as it sounds, I’m having a real conflict in my mind to find any reason why I shouldn’t hope for City to win every game in the league starting next week.

You'll be in good company. It's like the boards city supporters hq in here.



Similar to when I was in primary school and there was this kid who always came in with the jersey of the previous league winners :pac:.

Lord TSC

limnam wrote: »

You'll be in good company. It's like the boards city supporters hq in here.

Similar to when I was in primary school and there was this kid who always came in with the jersey of the previous league winners :pac:.

Dude, with the greatest respect, your attitude towards discussing this really comes across as head in the sand stuff, wherein you just don't want anyone mentioning the massive elephant in the room.

Believe me, I am the very one who wants to be optimistic, who wants to back Jose and the club fully.

But there's not a manager in the world who would look at our squad right now and go, "nah, their full backs are fine and who needs a RW". City managed to finish 19 points clear of us last season, and we added a lone first team player to our starting 11.

Taking potshots at people who are worried about very obvious diffeciencies and a lack of progress this summer is really ignorant. Implying it's a City fan club because people can identify the massive hurdle in front of United is cheap and petty, and refusing to identify a problem does nothing to help anyone.

deaddonkey15

Lord TSC wrote: »

Dude, with the greatest respect, your attitude towards discussing this really comes across as head in the sand stuff, wherein you just don't want anyone mentioning the massive elephant in the room.

Believe me, I am the very one who wants to be optimistic, who wants to back Jose and the club fully.

But there's not a manager in the world who would look at our squad right now and go, "nah, their full backs are fine and who needs a RW". City managed to finish 19 points clear of us last season, and we added a lone first team player to our starting 11.

Taking potshots at people who are worried about very obvious diffeciencies and a lack of progress this summer is really ignorant. Implying it's a City fan club because people can identify the massive hurdle in front of United is cheap and petty, and refusing to identify a problem does nothing to help anyone.

It was more than just limnam who regularly came out with that bullsh*t last season.

Giggsy11

Signing more players is the simplistic solution for every problem.

Lord TSC

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Signing more players is the simplistic solution for every problem.

Honest question, if Jose went tomorrow, and Pep, or Klopp or Poch came in.

Do you think their priorities wouldn't be replacing Young, Val and the empty RW spot?

Iused2likebusts

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not 100% on the source, but not a surprising comment if true...

https://twitter.com/cmwinterburn/status/1026157763783741440

Mourinho, "The other clubs are stronger or they have already fantastic teams like Chelsea, Spurs and City. Liverpool is buying everything and everybody. If we don't make our team better it will be a difficult season for us."


The bolded part has been known for at least 6 months. So I wonder what specifically failed this Summer considering we knew we needed to build on last season with some important new players.

I mean beyond just 'Woodward'; Is he penny pinching? Is he executing the orders of the Glazers? Is he shít at endearing our targets to the club? Or do our targets just not want to play for United?

Utd finished above Chelsea and spurs . Spurs haven't signed anyone and Chelsea have signed a first choice midfielder like utd. Chelsea have doubts about some key players possibly leaving. Liverpool sold coutinho in January nobody was brought in to replace him then . They lost Can on a free transfer this summer.It was inevitable Liverpool would need to make signings this summer aswell as the news that Ox would be out for the season. If Allison is any good that's the one signing that will improve things massively for them Jose hasn't lost any players that he wanted to keep. Chances are he is in for alderwereld and that's proving a difficult one to get over the line. I suspect they will get him this week if not someone else will come in. Sanchez would be comfortably in the top 3 RW in the league. He played some of his best football from there and if mourinho thinks its a problem position he should be able to get the best of him out there. Maybe he hasn't been backed enough to catch City although the window isn't over yet but he is talking a fair bit of nonsense this pre season. Its possible the targets where Bale and alderwereld these are much more difficult signings to make then most players for differing reasons. Mahrez and VVD would be easier players to obtain but you can see even with them both Liverpool and city had to wait an extra transfer window to get the player they wanted. His constant moaning in the media would have you believe he is the only manager who can't get what he wants when in reality he generally ends up getting the majority of what he wants.

Giggsy11

Lord TSC wrote: »

Honest question, if Jose went tomorrow, and Pep, or Klopp or Poch came in.

Do you think their priorities wouldn't be replacing Young, Val and the empty RW spot?

Of course they will be but I would also believe that they will make us play like a team both in attack and defense, and will play exciting football even with this team.

Even if we sign 2 more players, nothing will change. We will play as deep as possible against good teams and will chase the shadows for whole 90 mins with trying our luck here and there from long balls.

Klopp had Lovren, Klavan, Matip as his CB options, Moreno as LB and Karius and Mignolet as GKs at the start of last season and even for first 2-3 months. He also had players like Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can for midfield. Did that stop him playing attacking football?

Tell me honestly, how many of those players would you want in our team?

Pep had Delph as LB option for almost all last season, he also had Otamendi and Stones as CBs who were nothing but average. Did you want them at ManUtd last season? Even Fernandinho who wasn't better than Matic, or Sterling who was just average since he joined City.

It's not just about having good players, it's about attitude of the coach. Few coaches want their team to play on front foot which masks most of the weakness in the team, like SAF did with us. Jose wants us to play defensive game and rely on individuals to create and score.

How many times have you seen our players busting their gut to move forward in numbers, or make dummy runs to make space for others, or move asap to give option to the player in possession of the ball? It rarely happens, which means the player in possession will struggle more often than not.

To put in simple words, we don't play as a team. Questions should be asked about the manager who was in charge of the team for 2 years, our players look far worse than they are because of lack of system.

Edit: Btw I don't hate Jose. In fact I like him for taking over after Van Gaal and steadying the ship. Just that I don't agree with so many posts who always talk about signings and never once question why we haven't played like a team in 2 years.

Ordinary man

Lord TSC wrote: »

Honest question, if Jose went tomorrow, and Pep, or Klopp or Poch came in.

Do you think their priorities wouldn't be replacing Young, Val and the empty RW spot?

They would probably look to improve those areas but at the same time they would at the very least be able to make the current squad competitive. The way united played last night was a disgrace. No 2 ways about it. Set up with 11 behind the ball hoping to nick a goal on the counter. This way a team full of international players not sunderland.

Mourinho looks to set up not to lose, that's something that was not acceptable from moyes so won't be acceptable from him.

Do you believe that with the best lb, rb and rw out there that mourinho would get the team playing quality stuff and pushing for top honours?

Lord TSC

Giggsy, to be blunt, your post reads as if you accept we need signings, but are arguing against them cause you have an issue with Jose. Which is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You said....

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Signing more players is the simplistic solution for every problem.

Very few are defending Jose's style at the moment.

But that wasn't the point you made originally. Your point was arguing against making signings.

Be it Jose or Pep or Klopp or Poch, this summer we needed to sign players, and so far we haven't.

Regardless of what is happening on the field, those players should have been bought. If for no other reason than, if you're going to hack the legs out from Jose, at least have the players ready to go if/when a new manager comes in.

We constantly read reports we are the richest club in England, and yet we also have people trying to argue against signings. Jose should be doing better with what he has, but that doesn't mean he isn't also right when he identifies the problem areas in the squad.

Back him or sack him. It's that simple now. If the club has reached the point whereby they dont want to buy players for him, and the players he wants, then sack him and get in a manager who will use the players they want to buy.

Cause right now, it feels like the club's biggest enemy is itself.

Iused2likebusts

Lord TSC wrote: »

Honest question, if Jose went tomorrow, and Pep, or Klopp or Poch came in.

Do you think their priorities wouldn't be replacing Young, Val and the empty RW spot?

I think all 3 would just move Sanchez to RW and he would score between 15-20 league goals under them. Klopp moved Mane from RW where he was Liverpool's best player to LW after he signed Salah. Pep has at times used sterling as a CF and altered his play to have him arriving in the box more. Poch has used Son as a CF when Kane is out very effectively.

Lord TSC

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I think all 3 would just move Sanchez to RW and he would score between 15-20 league goals under them. Klopp moved Mane from RW where he was Liverpool's best player to LW after he signed Salah. Pep has at times used sterling as a CF and altered his play to have him arriving in the box more. Poch has used Son as a CF when Kane is out very effectively.

So, again, genuine question.

Why do you think Jose hasn't tried that?

Giggsy11

Lord TSC wrote: »

Giggsy, to be blunt, your post reads as if you accept we need signings, but are arguing against them cause you have an issue with Jose. Which is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You said....



Very few are defending Jose's style at the moment.

But that wasn't the point you made originally. Your point was arguing against making signings.

Be it Jose or Pep or Klopp or Poch, this summer we needed to sign players, and so far we haven't.

Regardless of what is happening on the field, those players should have been bought. If for no other reason than, if you're going to hack the legs out from Jose, at least have the players ready to go if/when a new manager comes in.

We constantly read reports we are the richest club in England, and yet we also have people trying to argue against signings. Jose should be doing better with what he has, but that doesn't mean he isn't also right when he identifies the problem areas in the squad.

Back him or sack him. It's that simple now. If the club has reached the point whereby they dont want to buy players for him, and the players he wants, then sack him and get in a manager who will use the players they want to buy.

Cause right now, it feels like the club's biggest enemy is itself.

Bold part 1:
Dalot Bailly Lindelof LB

Fred Matic Pogba

RW Lukaku Sanchez

So he has signed almost entire first 11 except 2 positions. I would say he was given good backing by the club.

Re bold part 2: It's not just 2 extremes. We have too many players and we have to offload too. We are trying to sell Rojo, Darmian and still haven't. On top of that average players like Fellaini are again tied with new contracts, same with Young (player you want replacement for but highly rated by Jose).

What we think and Jose think isn't in sync. We talk about how we need better fullbacks and then we see Jose making Valencia as club captain, begging Young to sign new contract and wants him to play 50 plus games. he still feel CB is priority position.

Re the actual reply, you asked if coaches like Klopp, Pep, Poch will replace or ask for 2-3 signings, I showed you how they are working with average players and making them look much better. Just signing good players is not the only solution, especially when we don't have a system or work as a team.

To be very honest, Young's performance last season was very good and there are very few LBs who had better season than him. Not having right winger just killed Valencia, he alone can't handle the entire right side. He is declining but not having proper RW just killed him quicker.

Giggsy11

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I think all 3 would just move Sanchez to RW and he would score between 15-20 league goals under them. Klopp moved Mane from RW where he was Liverpool's best player to LW after he signed Salah. Pep has at times used sterling as a CF and altered his play to have him arriving in the box more. Poch has used Son as a CF when Kane is out very effectively.

Exactly. It's not like Sanchez never played as RW. He started his career as RW, played as RW for Barcelona too.

Btw Wenger in 2016

"He is much sharper," Wenger told Arsenal's official website. "He is much more electric in his dribbling and much more confident. He scores goals again. I still believe on the right side he is much more clinical, since he has come back into this position he scores more goals."

Sanchez's return to form has coincided with Alex Iwobi's emergence for Arsenal on the opposite wing to the Chilean. While the two often switch positions during games, Sanchez has been playing more on the right side recently after spending much of the season on the left.

"He looks to me to be more comfortable in his movement, especially in his movement in behind," Wenger said. "When he plays on the left, he likes to drift in then come back. When he plays on the right, his runs in behind the defenders are better."

Just play Sanchez as RW, Rashford/Martial as LW and the problem is more than solved.

Mitch Connor

The club needs to make decisions.

If they don't trust Jose, or don't feel he has done enough with the players, or feel his style is part of the problem - then he should have been moved on. We argue for underperforming players to be moved on, if the club feels Jose is under performing than they should be looking at moving him on.

If they are happy with Mourinho, and Mourinho says X, Y, Z players are not good enough and he wants new players in A,B, C positions then the club should be doing everything they can to bring in the targets he wants - to give him the platform he feels he needs.

In no way do I find Jose blameless - I don't think we will win the title under him because our style of play (if we even have one) is terrible and there is no sign of that changing. But, the club haven't sacked him. While he is still the manager they need to back him and his decisions. From what we are reading this summer, the club have not backed him. They have fought him on left back, not signed a centre back, not signed a winger and failed to sell the players Jose wanted gone.

The club are hamstringing Jose, for whatever reason. My personal belief is that the club don't feel spending 150-200million on LB,CB and RW this summer is worth the return of maybe winning the PL - the money difference between 4th and 1st isn't big enough for them to justify the transfer spend. I think they feel they can get 4th with what they have an there would be limited monetary punishment for that. If winning the title was the goal, we'd have behaved as if it was.

Giggsy11

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1026391399133052929

Trigger

Giggsy11 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1026391399133052929

After missing 7-8 days he needs to get back up to speed fitness wise so it’s a good move by the club

Iused2likebusts

Lord TSC wrote: »

So, again, genuine question.

Why do you think Jose hasn't tried that?

I honestly don't know but Sanchez was great for Barcelona off the right and IMO far more effective for arsenal off the right then when he was moved to the left. He is a huge goal threat but when he plays on the left he spends half the game cutting back and chipping balls into the box. He is much more direct from the right and I think exactly what utd need. Also very good centrally but you have lukaku for that position. The attacking options are there for mourinho he hasn't just hasn't got it to click yet or found the right combination or formation. Willian or peresic wouldn't be a patch on Sanchez as a RW. Utd have lukaku, martial, rashford, Sanchez, mata, lingard, pogba he should be able to come up with some combination to get them attacking more effectively.He has had enough time and money to come up with a style or formation that will see them attack better. Liverpool had clyne out all last season and Gomez a cb and Taa a midfielder played RB all season . City played delph a midfielder LB most of the season both teams were still able to attack with purpose. Utds poor attacking play isn't all down to the fact that Valencia is RB.

Out of interest why do you think he hasn't tried Sanchez as RW.

Mitch Connor

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Out of interest why do you think he hasn't tried Sanchez as RW.

I find it genuinely baffling. Would create a place for Rashford or Martial and space for Pogba.

Playing Sanchez off the left makes do little sense for United.

Lord TSC

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Bold part 1:
Dalot Bailly Lindelof LB

Fred Matic Pogba

RW Lukaku Sanchez

So he has signed almost entire first 11 except 2 positions. I would say he was given good backing by the club.

Two points.

By your own admission, he's been backed with 9 or the first 11 spots. So why not give him the final two spots then, and cut out any fear of not being FULLY backed? Especially when said gaps don't seem to just be based on Jose's thoughts, but on a universally accepted problem areas?

Secondly, it's presuming we're taking every transfer there as absolutely perfect for a title run. Which is a tonne of pressure to put on Dalot (Who was playing as a back up in the Portugese league 4 months ago, albeit with high potential) and ignoring the fact Bailly has injury problems and Lindelof didn't storm out the gates last year.

Again, going back to Pep or Klopp, they aren't being told they can't replace transfers that haven't worked out (and thats not saying any of ours haven't, either). They've been backed when signings have been slow too.

Jose has been backed well up to this window. He has not been backed in this window fully. He asked for 5 players in positions everyone would have agreed need strengthening. Even if we count Dalot as a full, first team signing, that's 40% of the requested positions examined.

Re bold part 2: It's not just 2 extremes. We have too many players and we have to offload too. We are trying to sell Rojo, Darmian and still haven't. On top of that average players like Fellaini are again tied with new contracts, same with Young (player you want replacement for but highly rated by Jose).

Its not Jose's fault if the club can't offload players. He gives a list of players he wants rid of, and thats the end of his role.

Now, I'm happy to see we're actually working towards getting decent prices for our players at long last.

But again....are we cash strapped? Are we that tight that we're worried if we don't get 30m for Rojo, we can't go and sign players now? If it was just about getting them off the books, we'd have shifted them for a fraction of what we're asking for. That we seem content to push for bigger fees this summer implies to me that we feel under little pressure to get those sales done.

Its all an excuse though. The fact boils down, again, to "We have glaring holes in our squad, our manager wanted to fix them, the board wouldn't back him".

I don't agree with all of what Mitch says, but I do agree with a hefty chuck, particularly the "Back or Sack him" sentiment. If they feel Jose so drastically underpreformed last year that the team can do 20 points more this season, then thats a damning indictment of his role as our manager last season. If they think he failed to get 100% out of the players, and won't back him on the market this season, then sack him.

But we're back to spinning our wheels again because Woody and the board are being indecisive. They either feel Jose is the best manager for the job (in which case, back him fully) or they feel he's not doing a good enough job (in which case, sack him and back a new manager). We're stuck in between right now....

pjohnson

I think if Everton do sign Mina we wont be able to sell Rojo to them can't see them signing two 30m center backs. Which means we will either have 6 senior CB's if we sign Maguire, and we'll then be scrambling to try to convince Wolves to buy Smalling/loan Lindelöf to get them off the wage bill (or we sign no one else at all and start the new season with Darmian and Rojo still part of the team, but at least we sold Blind!)

Lord TSC

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Out of interest why do you think he hasn't tried Sanchez as RW.

I think he doesn't trust Martial at all, and doesn't particularly rate Rashford on the left either.

I think that he rates Sanchez' work rate and thus puts him on the left to take advantage of it, because Valencia's work rate covers the right. A RW with Sanchez and Valencia would be working so much harder than a LW of Martial/Rashford and Shaw/Young, and so Sanchez gets put on the left. This is also coupled with the fact Mata and Lingard seem to be able to put in that work on the RW as well.

I would hope that signing a LB would have actually helped that problem a bit, and opened up the possibility more of Sanchez getting to go on the RW. Or we could go for someone like Perisic for the LW and let Sanchez move to the RW too.

But it mainly comes down to not fully trusting the work rates of the current LW options he has.

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

I think if Everton do sign Mina we wont be able to sell Rojo to them can't see them signing two 30m center backs. Which means we will either have 6 senior CB's if we sign Maguire, and we'll then be scrambling to try to convince Wolves to buy Smalling/loan Lindelöf to get them off the wage bill (or we sign no one else at all and start the new season with Darmian and Rojo still part of the team, but at least we sold Blind!)

We still have a month to shift players abroad.

We won't get 30m for Rojo, but we will still get something for him if we are so inclined.

I'd imagine there's a bit less pressure, in that way, to get rid of players right now.

deaddonkey15

Lord TSC wrote: »

Two points.

By your own admission, he's been backed with 9 or the first 11 spots. So why not give him the final two spots then, and cut out any fear of not being FULLY backed? Especially when said gaps don't seem to just be based on Jose's thoughts, but on a universally accepted problem areas?

Secondly, it's presuming we're taking every transfer there as absolutely perfect for a title run. Which is a tonne of pressure to put on Dalot (Who was playing as a back up in the Portugese league 4 months ago, albeit with high potential) and ignoring the fact Bailly has injury problems and Lindelof didn't storm out the gates last year.

Again, going back to Pep or Klopp, they aren't being told they can't replace transfers that haven't worked out (and thats not saying any of ours haven't, either). They've been backed when signings have been slow too.

Jose has been backed well up to this window. He has not been backed in this window fully. He asked for 5 players in positions everyone would have agreed need strengthening. Even if we count Dalot as a full, first team signing, that's 40% of the requested positions examined.



Its not Jose's fault if the club can't offload players. He gives a list of players he wants rid of, and thats the end of his role.

Now, I'm happy to see we're actually working towards getting decent prices for our players at long last.

But again....are we cash strapped? Are we that tight that we're worried if we don't get 30m for Rojo, we can't go and sign players now? If it was just about getting them off the books, we'd have shifted them for a fraction of what we're asking for. That we seem content to push for bigger fees this summer implies to me that we feel under little pressure to get those sales done.

Its all an excuse though. The fact boils down, again, to "We have glaring holes in our squad, our manager wanted to fix them, the board wouldn't back him".

I don't agree with all of what Mitch says, but I do agree with a hefty chuck, particularly the "Back or Sack him" sentiment. If they feel Jose so drastically underpreformed last year that the team can do 20 points more this season, then thats a damning indictment of his role as our manager last season. If they think he failed to get 100% out of the players, and won't back him on the market this season, then sack him.

But we're back to spinning our wheels again because Woody and the board are being indecisive. They either feel Jose is the best manager for the job (in which case, back him fully) or they feel he's not doing a good enough job (in which case, sack him and back a new manager). We're stuck in between right now....

That isn't a fact though. Again, people are just making assumptions when in reality they know nothing about what is going on behind the scenes.

Lord TSC

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

That isn't a fact though. Again, people are just making assumptions when in reality they know nothing about what is going on behind the scenes.

Which part are you disputing?

We have glaring holes in our squad - We do, I don't see how anyone can say that isn't true.

our manager wanted to fix them - Are you saying that Jose is happy with the team? Is that what his recent comments have implied?

the board wouldn't back him - Have we brought in players for the problem areas I've missed?

There's no making assumptions. All three of those statements are very self-evident. You can argue WHY the club hasn't backed him, but you surely can't argue that they haven't done the nessecary deals (to date) this summer, that not just Jose but the club needed?

limnam

limnam wrote: »

You'll be in good company. It's like the boards city supporters hq in here.



Similar to when I was in primary school and there was this kid who always came in with the jersey of the previous league winners :pac:.

Oh yea, hadn’t realised that there was so many Blackburn fans in ireland back in the summer of 1995 ,all those shirts around!

Giggsy11

Lord TSC wrote: »

Two points.

By your own admission, he's been backed with 9 or the first 11 spots. So why not give him the final two spots then, and cut out any fear of not being FULLY backed? Especially when said gaps don't seem to just be based on Jose's thoughts, but on a universally accepted problem areas?

Secondly, it's presuming we're taking every transfer there as absolutely perfect for a title run. Which is a tonne of pressure to put on Dalot (Who was playing as a back up in the Portugese league 4 months ago, albeit with high potential) and ignoring the fact Bailly has injury problems and Lindelof didn't storm out the gates last year.

Again, going back to Pep or Klopp, they aren't being told they can't replace transfers that haven't worked out (and thats not saying any of ours haven't, either). They've been backed when signings have been slow too.

Jose has been backed well up to this window. He has not been backed in this window fully. He asked for 5 players in positions everyone would have agreed need strengthening. Even if we count Dalot as a full, first team signing, that's 40% of the requested positions examined.

Not sure when did the trend of "manager should get 11 of his player" started. He is backed and got so many players. He even have very talented players like Rashford and Martail. Why not move Sanchez to right and play Martial who has very good season before dropped as left winger.

Pep lost Sanchez, Fred, Jorginho and signed Laporte and Mahrez 6 months later. Klopp lost few of his key players and then the money was re invested.

How can anyone say that other 2 are backed and Jose isn't is beyond me. If ManUtd lost 4 players who were so close to joining, then this place would have been on fire.

Its not Jose's fault if the club can't offload players. He gives a list of players he wants rid of, and thats the end of his role.

Now, I'm happy to see we're actually working towards getting decent prices for our players at long last.

But again....are we cash strapped? Are we that tight that we're worried if we don't get 30m for Rojo, we can't go and sign players now? If it was just about getting them off the books, we'd have shifted them for a fraction of what we're asking for. That we seem content to push for bigger fees this summer implies to me that we feel under little pressure to get those sales done.

So Jose has nothing to do with the club? Is he not working as a team with Woodward? Why do you think Jose has no role and it doesn't matter whether we offloaded players before signing anyone? Is Jose spoiled brat?

Of course they are a team. When did the policy of getting good price for outgoing players started? Yes since Jose took over. It's always the case with Jose, he wants good price for outgoing players and he even said that so many times in his interviews, that he will let go of players as long as they get the asking price.

Its all an excuse though. The fact boils down, again, to "We have glaring holes in our squad, our manager wanted to fix them, the board wouldn't back him".

I don't agree with all of what Mitch says, but I do agree with a hefty chuck, particularly the "Back or Sack him" sentiment. If they feel Jose so drastically underpreformed last year that the team can do 20 points more this season, then thats a damning indictment of his role as our manager last season. If they think he failed to get 100% out of the players, and won't back him on the market this season, then sack him.

But we're back to spinning our wheels again because Woody and the board are being indecisive. They either feel Jose is the best manager for the job (in which case, back him fully) or they feel he's not doing a good enough job (in which case, sack him and back a new manager). We're stuck in between right now....

So why is such a great manager like Jose isn't resigning when he isn't backed? It's obvious isn't it, transfer deals are not just white or black. Back or sack. We are working to offload players before signing players. Apart from that, there is also matter of selling club. Leicester said they won't sell Maguire for any price. Spurs are incredibly hard to deal with, attested by SAF. Then we have injury prone Boateng and Mina. Chelsea have rejected multiple bids from Barca, player himself said he wants to stay at Chelesa and club don't want to sell the player.

It's not always we will get the targeted players.

Btw do you think Levy doesn't believe in Poch and should sack him? Same with City and Pep as they failed to sign Sanchez, Fred, Jorginho and Pep said he wants a DM and of high quality, but doesn't know if they can sign one?

Liverpool also lowballed their offer for Fekir, does that count as not backing Klopp?

Chelsea didn't sign Rugain, Higauin, does that mean Sarri is not backed and should be sacked?

I don't think there is any club who signs every player their coach wanted. It's near impossible even for the clubs like City, PSG who have unlimited money.

JaMarcus

Surely we're not signing 2 CBs? Both Boateng and Alderweireld rumours have picked up pace the last 24 hours. I'd hope we're trying to make Spurs panic and accept whatever offer we have made by making them think we're moving on to Boateng.