Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Which part are you disputing?

We have glaring holes in our squad - We do, I don't see how anyone can say that isn't true.

our manager wanted to fix them - Are you saying that Jose is happy with the team? Is that what his recent comments have implied?

the board wouldn't back him - Have we brought in players for the problem areas I've missed?

There's no making assumptions. All three of those statements are very self-evident. You can argue WHY the club hasn't backed him, but you surely can't argue that they haven't done the nessecary deals (to date) this summer, that not just Jose but the club needed?

Just because the players haven't come in doesn't mean the owners aren't backing him. They have backed him every other window. The money may be available but:

- Players didn't want to come for whatever reason.
- Deals might still be happening behind the scenes.

Unless you know something you're just taking Mourinho's word at face value.


Now, if you're right and he's not being backed, he'll be gone by Christmas if results go badly.

duffman13

JaMarcus wrote: »

Surely we're not signing 2 CBs? Both Boateng and Alderweireld rumours have picked up pace the last 24 hours. I'd hope we're trying to make Spurs panic and accept whatever offer we have made by making them think we're moving on to Boateng.

I really hope we aren't touching Boateng, massively overrated IMO. I dont think we are signing two and tbh I'd prefer we focus on other positions but Jose wants another CB.

duffman13

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Just because the players haven't come in doesn't mean the owners aren't backing him. They have backed him every other window. The money may be available but:

- Players didn't want to come for whatever reason.
- Deals might still be happening behind the scenes.

Unless you know something you're just taking Mourinho's word at face value.


Now, if you're right and he's not being backed, he'll be gone by Christmas if results go badly.

I find the narrative of him not being backed fairly odd. New contract 6 months ago. Unless the club and him had some kind of conversation about style of play or long term planning (age profile of players) and now Jose is railing against that.

All pure conjecture but that's the only reason I see for the club not backing him. Although pushing signings on Jose has never worked in the past so dunno why the club would think it would work now

limnam

Lord TSC wrote: »

Dude, with the greatest respect, your attitude towards discussing this really comes across as head in the sand stuff, wherein you just don't want anyone mentioning the massive elephant in the room.

Wrong!

Head in the sand because I questioned someone who is going to cheer on City for the season in a united thread? Come off it TSC.

Lord TSC wrote: »

Believe me, I am the very one who wants to be optimistic, who wants to back Jose and the club fully.

But there's not a manager in the world who would look at our squad right now and go, "nah, their full backs are fine and who needs a RW". City managed to finish 19 points clear of us last season, and we added a lone first team player to our starting 11.

It's not a case of everything is rosy in the garden. But it's not as bad as everyone's making it out to be and posting things like I'll be supporting city this year is not helpful.

Lord TSC wrote: »

Taking potshots at people who are worried about very obvious diffeciencies and a lack of progress this summer is really ignorant. Implying it's a City fan club because people can identify the massive hurdle in front of United is cheap and petty, and refusing to identify a problem does nothing to help anyone.

Why is it taking potshots? Am I not entitled to be optimistic and try to state why as much as people are allowed to spend the day whining on here? Identifying positions to be filled is not been a City fan club. Stating you're going to be cheering them on next year? Bizarre stuff.

Trigger

duffman13 wrote: »

I really hope we aren't touching Boateng, massively overrated IMO. I dont think we are signing two and tbh I'd prefer we focus on other positions but Jose wants another CB.

I think CB was one of the 5 positions that Jose had earmarked along with CM, RB RW and either LB or a back up striker, while we have got two of those the left back could be relying on Shaw to move. The other two remaining CB and RW and we seem to be actively pursuing both positions, but it also seems that we haven’t been able to sort out the RW(which imo is the most glaring weakness in the squad) I reckon we will definitely sign a CB before Thursday anyways, my money is still on Alderweirald, there is reports in Belgium that he is trying to push his move thru and they are saying he only wants to move to United which is a good indication. Reports closer to home are saying that it’s still on too, while Sky threw all their money at the Maguire links they seem to be trying to push that and have Alderweirald as being a backup.

TitianGerm

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think he doesn't trust Martial at all, and doesn't particularly rate Rashford on the left either.

I think that he rates Sanchez' work rate and thus puts him on the left to take advantage of it, because Valencia's work rate covers the right. A RW with Sanchez and Valencia would be working so much harder than a LW of Martial/Rashford and Shaw/Young, and so Sanchez gets put on the left. This is also coupled with the fact Mata and Lingard seem to be able to put in that work on the RW as well.

I would hope that signing a LB would have actually helped that problem a bit, and opened up the possibility more of Sanchez getting to go on the RW. Or we could go for someone like Perisic for the LW and let Sanchez move to the RW too.

But it mainly comes down to not fully trusting the work rates of the current LW options he has.

Can Lingard not play LW then? He works his arse off whenever he plays.

Giggsy11

TitianGerm wrote: »

Can Lingard not play LW then? He works his arse off whenever he plays.

It's nothing to do with work rate. For all the "Lazy Martial" posts, he covers just 500m less than Sanchez per 90 mins. There are so many times where Sanchez was next to fullback helping them in defense. It's the new narrative that is built in last few months.

DM_7

The style Jose favours is not the issue.

In football there is an obvious correlation in football between success and the best players.

Real Madrid and France most suited to tournament play win out.

Man City, Juventus, Barcelona, Bayern Munich etc, best teams/Squads in their leagues triumph.

Like his choice of style of not, France and even Belgium at the World Cup had better first choice 11s than United.

Where are the United players the other teams would love to have? Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku and ........

They are just not there in vast numbers. That is why Jose is actually a good fit for United right now. His system can allow a player like Young play to a high level. He wants to win. He can set his team up to use a Lukaku or Sanchez if given the backing to do it. So far he has a lot of backing but United must continue to do more because the rivals or clubs they want to rival in Europe are improving as are clubs within the league.

That is why Jose keeps talking about City or Liverpool, I am not sure he is is dismissing the steps United took to give him players but pointing out that other clubs are also improving, so United need to keep pushing for better players.

deaddonkey15

Lord TSC wrote: »

Which part are you disputing?

We have glaring holes in our squad - We do, I don't see how anyone can say that isn't true.

our manager wanted to fix them - Are you saying that Jose is happy with the team? Is that what his recent comments have implied?

But what you deem to be "glaring holes" is just your opinion and perspective as a fan. It's mentioned daily in here about how we need a right winger, and many talk about needing a back up for Lukaku, yet in February Mourinho himself said he doesn't want any more attacking players. He mentioned how both Rashford and Sanchez can play on the left and the right, and how they can all play as a second striker. He even calls out the media for speculating about attacking players arriving in the summer before saying he doesn't want any. He even says we don't need to improve on our attacking players we just need to improve on their dynamic and efficiency which is what many here (including myself) having been saying all season.

Left back is another supposed glaring hole. Personally I think Young is a solid enough left back, though I would like to see a signing for that position purely because he is in his thirties. Only back in May though, Mourinho said that Young is better now than when he first arrived 2 years ago. He said next year he will be an important member of the squad and hopes he makes around 50 appearances. They triggered a contract extension for him back in March. That suggests first team player to me. And keeping a player that Mourinho wants at the club (like Fellaini, and the re-signing of Ibrahimovic), backing the manager in other words.

Right back, I would agree that we need a massive upgrade. But then Mourinho made Valencia the club captain less than a month ago, so perhaps that's a vote of confidence for the coming season? I don't know.

Lord TSC wrote: »

the board wouldn't back him - Have we brought in players for the problem areas I've missed?

There's no making assumptions. All three of those statements are very self-evident. You can argue WHY the club hasn't backed him, but you surely can't argue that they haven't done the nessecary deals (to date) this summer, that not just Jose but the club needed?

As someone else pointed out, just because the players that you feel we need haven't arrived doesn't mean the manager isn't being backed. There's a difference between not doing deals and not being able to do a deal.

The recent rumours about Maguire were interesting. Centre half seems low on the list of priority signings yet Maguire, Alderweireld and Mina are the players we've most strongly been linked with recently. If Mourinho wants Maguire do the rumours linking us to him not indicate that the club are trying to do a deal and "back the manager"? Most people here were opposed to that signing and were relieved when Leicester said he was not for sale, yet the same people are desperate for us to sign the players Mourinho wants, or more correctly, the players they think Mourinho wants. Somehow I doubt not signing Maguire this summer will be used as evidence of Mourinho not being backed the same way not signing Perisic last summer was.

Moreover, if we were genuinely chasing Maguire, what more can we do if Leicester say he's not for sale? Again, people claiming we're the richest club in the world and should just pay what's required to back the manager. Would they be happy with a 80/90/100m pound bid to convince Leicester to sell? As sure as night follows day Woodward would get flak for signing Maguire for 100m instead of a right winger (despite Mourinho publicly saying he doesn't want more attackers) after we get held to a 0-0 by Brighton at Old Trafford in November.

duffman13

It's alright, we've got CB sorted

Jose talking about Pogba:
“He is a very self-confident boy too, so we are living well with the critics, if you want, and we know what the critics are.

“He’s a top player and I think he could be a phenomenal central defender.

“With the quality of his pass, with his aerial game, with his agility in such a big body, for his defensive side of the game, coming from the back with the ball, he would be a phenomenal central defender, too.”

It was never Matic dropping to centre half

https://www.football365.com/news/mourinho-pogba-would-be-brilliant-centre-half

Lord TSC

Anyway, transfer talks...

Man Utd in talks to sign Jerome Boateng from Bayern Munich [By Sam Wallace, chief football writer, Telegraph ]

Everywhere seems to be running this one today. Probably helps that Bayern's Tier One sources started the ball rolling, presenting an obvious story. But there does seem to be a lot of smoke there.

I don't know much about him. The consensus seems to be he's world class when fit, but "when fit" is an issue.

Giggsy11

https://twitter.com/TimesSport/status/1026428903253000192

So that's Bayern tier 1 reporter, Sam Wallace (telegraph), Hirst (times) reporting Boateng deal.

pjohnson

Oof Sky just put up Juve are willing to swap Pjanic to get Pogba back.

Trigger

pjohnson wrote: »

Oof Sky just put up Juve are willing to swap Pjanic to get Pogba back.

Interesting...

brinty

pjohnson wrote: »

Oof Sky just put up Juve are willing to swap Pjanic to get Pogba back.

Good luck with that deal Juve you’re at least a Sandro and Mandzukic short on a deal

Hey Barca no problem you can have Pogba just send Messi the other way ��

Giggsy11

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1026436179720318978

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1026435711447314432

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

Oof Sky just put up Juve are willing to swap Pjanic to get Pogba back.

Would need more but I'd worry a swap deal,could still materialise in the next few days....

jimmytwotimes 2013

Scrambling for a CB signing last minute. Of the 5 areas we needed to look at (2 FBs, CB, RW, CM), we've sorted one. Obviously we weren't going to sign 5 players but maybe 3 by now would have been wise.

My biggest disappointment is not addressing the FB situation. With our system, full backs that get forward and assist are essential but we're still stuck with our two 30-something, converted wingers.

fatherted1969

Fred and Matic are more than adequate defensive cover for any inabilities in our CB's imo. Don't really get the mad scramble for another CB when it's glaringly obvious the FB positions are awful. No proper width in the side again this season, be trying to pick passes through the middle of a congested midfield again.

I'm just tired of Jose's moaning and the season hasn't even started yet

Lord TSC

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Don't really get the mad scramble for another CB when it's glaringly obvious the FB positions are awful.

Not denying the FB issue, which needs to be fixed too.

Strikes me what we're after is some sort of leader. An older defender who is capable of organising the defense a bit more. Toby and Boateng seem to be with that in mind. It's adding a bit more of an older presense to the group we have, who seem to all be lacking that characteristic.

Mind, not sure if Maguire fits that bill, though his constant winning of club POTY awards shows he has a certain level of dedication anyway...

JaMarcus

Our defensive record is actually very good considering the very average defenders we regularly play. If Boateng or Alderweireld improve how we defend set pieces, and reduce some high profile individual errors (ie. Phil Jones in FA Cup final) then we'd have a pretty formidable defense.

But we'd still make for grim viewing as we have no attacking identity. And I don't think there's a galactico out there who would solve that, unless it's a new manager.

I'd take Alderweireld over Boateng simply because we've been horrendously fleeced anytime Europe's elite have decided to flog us their leftovers over the past half decade. Arguably, the only ones who have looked decent are the proven PL talents like Matic, Lukaku and to a lesser extent, Mata. Jury is out on Sanchez - I'll give him a full season before judging.

Giggsy11

So what's the opinion on Boateng?

For me we shouldn't sign him. It should be either Toby or no one. Boateng is very injury prone player.

Lord TSC

JaMarcus wrote: »

Our defensive record is actually very good considering the very average defenders we regularly play.

There's an arguement to be made that the reason we have a very good defensive record despite out average defenders is that we play such deep football to make up for their lack of quality. There's an arguement that if we could replace our average defenders with better quality ones, perhaps we wouldn't have to play so deep and that would give us more room to attack.

That, and De Gea saves our bacon a lot, and our record would look a lot worse without him.

Will I Am Not

Giggsy11 wrote: »

So what's the opinion on Boateng?

For me we shouldn't sign him. It should be either Toby or no one. Boateng is very injury prone player.

If it’s a choice between Boateng and nobody, I’ll take Boateng.

Mitch Connor

Will I Am Not wrote: »

If it’s a choice between Boateng and nobody, I’ll take Boateng.

I'd go nobody, and hope we can line up a proper quality cb for Jan or summer. Signing a average cb now will inhibit us buying a proper one.

Will I Am Not

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd go nobody, and hope we can line up a proper quality cb for Jan or summer. Signing a average cb now will inhibit us buying a proper one.

There’s Jones, Smalling and Rojo to get rid of if we want to make way for someone else.

yabadabado

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

It sounds total PR and a bit cringy but this is what Liverpool's principle owner John Henry said shortly after acquiring the club:-

"It gives me goosebumps to think we could deliver a Premier League title to Liverpool - it's what we are there for, we have no other agenda than that."

Have any of the Glazers doubled down with a similar statement since SAF retired?

Jaysus :o

RobertKK

So I see on the sports on Sky news that United are expected to bid for Harry Maguire, Leicester want £80 million!!! lol
They also Boateng and Bayern want about £45 million for him.

posturingpat

Boateng has been one of the top 10 centre halves in world football for the last 6 or 7 years. He had a few injuries last season and played rubbish in the world Cup but he's still going to be an excellent signing for someone.
Hopefully it's us, him or Maguire and it's no contest for me, Boateng all day and the fact hell cost less only sweetens the deal.

Drumpot

Lord TSC wrote: »

There's an arguement to be made that the reason we have a very good defensive record despite out average defenders is that we play such deep football to make up for their lack of quality. There's an arguement that if we could replace our average defenders with better quality ones, perhaps we wouldn't have to play so deep and that would give us more room to attack.

That, and De Gea saves our bacon a lot, and our record would look a lot worse without him.

If you were playing football manager and you wanted the best chance of winning the league this season and didn’t care about future value of a player, How would you prioritize who to sign? Effectively that’s what Jose wants. He doesn’t care about young players or potentially good players because odds are he won’t be around to reap the rewards if these players ever reach their potential.

It’s all good and well saying united is a growing youth club but why then was Jose hired? He’s a 3 season manager who brings in instant success and goes. So the club hires a guy with proven pedigree and still sort of supports him with a half n half transfer strategy. Nobody will convince me that Pogba has the kind of character or mental drive to succeed that Jose works well with, particularly with the added fact that this player is a marketers dream and we know how much the owners love making money...

So back to the point, you are playing football manager and have narrowed down a defensive central defender to Boetang, maguire and Alderweireld. You want to try and win the league and have the funds to sign whichever of these three. Who do you think you sign? Is maguire, English , younger with a potentially better resale value, the best choice for this season?

So then the question has to return back to how much support is Jose actually getting in terms of transfers? How much of the hundreds of millions spent were the owners buying players that fits their criteria (marketing, potential, youth , resale value) and how much the kind of characters/players Jose will work well with (matic, lukaku etc).

It sort of feels like the owners are handicapping the manager with their own priorities. Getting rid of Jose or even Woodward doesn’t change the owners priorities. I would love to know if Woodward is any good or negotiating for players or is actually doing everything that the owners want/expect..... might be actually be sabotaging supposed united transfers like the supposed fax issue with DDGs proposed move to Madrid? So stories of him negotiating with clubs for top targets would I be true but the true intent to get these for the mangers are not so clear..

duffman13

Axel gone on loan to Villa for the season. Good move for him, should get plenty of game time

jayo26

Axle gone on season loan to villa.

Adamcp898

Giggsy11 wrote: »

So what's the opinion on Boateng?

For me we shouldn't sign him. It should be either Toby or no one. Boateng is very injury prone player.

It's not just how injury prone he is, there's plenty other reasons too, chief among them being he's just not that good anymore. 3/4 years ago perhaps yes, but not now and certainly not for the crazy money being touted.

I'm in the sign nobody camp if it's him or noone at all.

duffman13

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It's not just how injury prone he is, there's plenty other reasons too, chief among them being he's just not that good anymore. 3/4 years ago perhaps yes, but not now and certainly not for the crazy money being touted.

I'm in the sign nobody camp if it's him or noone at all.

Agreed, I think he's an awful signing. He doesn't strike me as a leader, prone to errors, picks up needless cards, really not a top class CB IMO

Iused2likebusts

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think he doesn't trust Martial at all, and doesn't particularly rate Rashford on the left either.

I think that he rates Sanchez' work rate and thus puts him on the left to take advantage of it, because Valencia's work rate covers the right. A RW with Sanchez and Valencia would be working so much harder than a LW of Martial/Rashford and Shaw/Young, and so Sanchez gets put on the left. This is also coupled with the fact Mata and Lingard seem to be able to put in that work on the RW as well.

I would hope that signing a LB would have actually helped that problem a bit, and opened up the possibility more of Sanchez getting to go on the RW. Or we could go for someone like Perisic for the LW and let Sanchez move to the RW too.

But it mainly comes down to not fully trusting the work rates of the current LW options he has.

Before Sanchez signed
24 games 49 scored 16 conceded
After Sanchez signed
14 games 19 scored 12 conceded
So since Sanchez signed you score less and concede more. I don't think he is on the left for his defensive work and if he is it makes no sense. Things were going quite well before he signed and him playing on the right would only have strengthened things or moving rashford to the right and giving him a proper run at it. The players are there for Jose in an attacking sense he needs to get a bit more out of them or set utd up to get more out of the attacking players.
Granted yous had a very easy start last year with all the teams you played either losing their managers or ending up relegated. But in those 7 games you still scored 21 goals and conceded 2. With either martial or rashford LW.

Rossi IRL

Finally a new signing.


https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1026469187227541505?s=19

Mitch Connor

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Finally a new signing.


https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1026469187227541505?s=19

And that's the type of signing the club are ultimately interested in.

Giggsy11

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It's not just how injury prone he is, there's plenty other reasons too, chief among them being he's just not that good anymore. 3/4 years ago perhaps yes, but not now and certainly not for the crazy money being touted.

I'm in the sign nobody camp if it's him or noone at all.

I'm also in the same camp.

Saying that, interesting to see Bayern fans on their forum and redcafe rate him very highly.

Hopefully we get Toby and a right winger.

Zeek12

duffman13 wrote: »

Agreed, I think he's an awful signing. He doesn't strike me as a leader, prone to errors, picks up needless cards, really not a top class CB IMO

Have to Echo some of these comments.

I don’t think he’s a real top Centre back.

Fairly injury prone too....we already have Jones and Bailly hogging the physios time.

I hope this one is just speculation

RobbingBandit

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Finally a new signing.


https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1026469187227541505?s=19

Glazers out bet you it makes a big comeback

Jose gets paid if he's fired if he walks I'm not so sure Manchester United is big business now but as we here all know it was is and forever shall be the greatest football team ever.

JaMarcus

If you say it fast enough, you can pretend we signed Ciro Im-MoPlay.

Could play him out right, sending crosses into Lukaku and Jan Kohler.

How Soon Is Now

Dunno about Boatang he looked awful in the world cup seemed to of lost his legs!

Plus look at it this way if he was still playing at top level Bayern wouldn't be selling him!

Rossi IRL

There is no denying that Woodward is great at getting in the sponsors. I think we could do with somebody to run the on field stuff like signings and managers etc to work alongside Woodward.

pjohnson

Jaysus Rashford has joined some company.

Ibrahimovic
Rooney
Van Nistelrooy
Sheringham

the previous incumbents of it!

Giggsy11

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus Rashford has joined some company.

Ibrahimovic
Rooney
Van Nistelrooy
Sheringham

the previous incumbents of it!

Think Beckham too.

Drumpot

Rossi IRL wrote: »

There is no denying that Woodward is great at getting in the sponsors. I think we could do with somebody to run the on field stuff like signings and managers etc to work alongside Woodward.

If only there was an existing position in football whereby somebody with a good football knowledge, good negotiating qualities and who could work with the manager could take up some sort of director position....

We could call it the “football guy who works with manager director” or something like that....

It’s a real shame that no position exists for this role :pac:

jimmytwotimes 2013

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus Rashford has joined some company.

Ibrahimovic
Rooney
Van Nistelrooy
Sheringham

the previous incumbents of it!

Mark Hughes
Denis Law

pjohnson

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Mark Hughes
Denis Law

They didn't use actually squad numbers back then so didn't count it (or were there squad numbers when Hughes rejoined?)

jimmytwotimes 2013

pjohnson wrote: »

They didn't use actually squad numbers back then so didn't count it (or were there squad numbers when Hughes rejoined?)

They're iconic 10s tho, no?

markcahill1985

pjohnson wrote:

They didn't use actually squad numbers back then so didn't count it (or were there squad numbers when Hughes rejoined?)

Yes Hughes was number 10 from when they were introduced in 93/94 season.