NFL Protest Discussion

eagle eye

Joe Dog wrote: »

Where are the players union in all this.

If this is a serious issue and the players feel strongly about it then they should call a strike and stick it to the owners and finally get a resolution that they can be happy with.

The players are allowing themselves to be supposedly taken advantage of because the union appears to have no balls and if this is such a big issue then they need to be willing to make sacrifices for it even if that means losing years salary.

They criticised the move and said they weren't brought in to discuss the possibility of this happening.



The Union can't really take sides in this because they have members who are against kneeling.

eagle eye

Billy86 wrote: »

So long as it is protected by the US flag code, the US constitution and by US laws, then yes.

And other polls have the majority agreeing that it is appropriate.

If there is a huge amount against it, it doesn't have to be majority, then it's going to affect the NFL as a business so they are right to fine players to try and stop it happening.


The whole purpose of this is being forgotten about because all everybody is talking about is whether it's right to kneel or not.

Billy86 wrote: »

It is a deeply partisan viewpoint, with those who vote Democrat saying it is appropriate and those who vote Republican say it isn't. The irony there is that so many Republicans love nothing more than to bang on about the constitution and first amendment rights, so for them this has nothing to do with kneeling or protesting. It is entirely about what he is protesting. Which is brilliantly ironic again, because what he and others have been protesting is based around inequality in the US based on skin colour.

If this were a white NFL player protesting for more gun rights, they would be all for it.

So you are anti-Republican, this is all I'm taking from what you said there because it's so biased.

Billy86 wrote: »

Because the US enshrines the right to protest in the first amendment and the manner in which Kaepernick was doing so was entirely in accordance with the US flag code; it's that simple. Yet the people who take issue with it are the ones who cannot stop jumping up and down about the first amendment and constitution in general.

A lot of people who have worked in the army and the reserve forces are unhappy about this. Those people have every right to be unhappy about it. If this was happening over here I'd be very unhappy about it.

Billy86 wrote: »

If these Americans continued down the cult-like path they are on and decided they did not want black players in the league at all because Trump said so, by this logic black players should get kicked out of the league too.

Now you are getting silly.

Billy86 wrote: »

I thought it was because he wasn't good enough to match even Branden Weeden or Brett Hundley? Either way, NFL owners have come out to say their stance on the matter is dictated by Trump - and that is why Kaepernick is not in the league.

I never mentioned Weeden or Hundley at any time. I did state that imo he isn't a good QB but the way some people were talking he should be starting which I don't agree with. I don't think there are many places where he would be a good backup either.



Well Trump is the President of the United States of America so his word is important. I know you are anti-Republican so that probably sickens you.

Billy86 wrote: »

If someone wants to see these protests banned, they are by default saying they disagree with and are standing against the US Constitution. Which is absolutely fine as the constitution is something that gets amended from time to time (this is the first amendment we are talking about after all). But they won't say that as it puts a lot of those same Republicans in a tricky spot next time there is a school shooting when many of them will be right back banging on relentlessly about how the US constitution needs to be respected and their rights treated as sacred.

We are going down the political route here again. This is sport and business. Sport is supposed to be fun for people to watch and it's not with these protests going on.

Billy86 wrote: »

As I said the whole thing stinks of wanting constitutional protections for themselves, but not for those pesky black lads protesting against inequality. This whole ordeal is going to be a bad look and a bit of a black eye for the NFL for many, many years from now.

Take out of it what you will. I'd be of the opinion that in thirty or forty years people will read about it and say how foolish both sides were.

One side managed to annoy a lot of people by kneeling during the national anthem and the whole point they were trying to make was lost in the furore.

The other side, the NFL, could have eliminated the whole thing by just not having the national anthem played at games.

TOss Sweep

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Do you have a link to these polls and what were their audience?

High numbers? 3 and 1% are hardly high numbers and heres the thing with Polls they are generally not a true reflection of the overall opinion. The fact it was so close you could say there is an even split.

Ask anyone is does analytics how they feel about such small margins and they will tear your high numbers apart.

Hey Eagle Eye do you have a link to said polls?

TOss Sweep

This is the way I see it:

- Taking a knee in front of a flag is not disrespectful in any way.

- Your freedom of speech or protest is only protected if you work for a Government agency BUT not in the private sector and the NFL while morally wrong are doing nothing wrong legally

- This whole thing was blown up by Trump. Before he opened his dumb mouth only a handful of players were doing it. The weekend after he said something the majority of African Americans were taking a knee.

- The majority of those opposing the knee have no idea why the players are doing it and are only now objecting because of what Trump said. Most just hated Kap for what he was doing but because their own teams were not doing it they didn't care. Trump gets involved and boom atomic bomb dropped. Now everyone on both sides has an opinion and it has divided opinions.

- If all of these players were white Trump would not have opened his mouth and I bet you any amount of money the tables would be turned politically.

- This whole debate is Political no matter how anyone wants to swing it.

- This whole thing sums up Politics in this country and puts a glaring spotlight on the nonsense of both the Far Left and Far Right.

My own thought is while I disagree with the NFLs rules they are within their right to do what they are doing. They are in the private sector and anyone who works in the US knows you have very little rights in most states when it comes to working. Take MA considered a Liberal state. MA is a work at will state and there is very little protection for employees. You turn up do your job and get on with it. Anything else and they can fire you. There is some protection but it aint great. If I did what the NFL players were doing I could be sacked on the spot. Private sector as I mentioned above is not protected.

StringerBell

Strongly considering not watching this year, first time since the 90's that would be. I just can't get my head around this organization and how **** they are basically.

Remember when the anthem was done before the players even came out of the locker room?

I know Trump would have you believe it's always been the case that the teams had to be out for the athem but this only actually came about in 2009. As is often the case Trump doesn't have a good working knowledge of, well, anything other than how to make reality TV

The over the top military love is bad enough but my stomach is being turned thinking about doing anything to support the league this year. I'll miss it for sure, I just don't think it's an organization I can support.

Billy86

eagle eye wrote: »

If there is a huge amount against it, it doesn't have to be majority, then it's going to affect the NFL as a business so they are right to fine players to try and stop it happening.

And there are a huge amount who support it that the NFL are now risking losing as viewers, on top of the fact this is something they'll look back on in even just 5-10 years time and want to forget about because it's not going to age well as a law.

So what makes people who are against the US constitution more important to the NFL than people who support it? Just on this forum with a small handful of fans they've already lost my subscription for the year and may well have lost StringerBell entirely.

The whole purpose of this is being forgotten about because all everybody is talking about is whether it's right to kneel or not.

Which is completely intentional, because they didn't want to talk about the issue being protested so they decided to just claim it is disrespectful for people to protesting even if it is done in a manner that the US Constitution and flag code say are 100% acceptable and in no way disrespectful.

What they should be doing if they were honest about the whole thing is petitioning to get rid of the first amendment as it is currently written, but they won't because of how much they've been banging on about the US Constitution as 'sacred'. Which, like most of what they have claimed to stand for over the last decade, has proven to be complete bullsh*t.

So you are anti-Republican, this is all I'm taking from what you said there because it's so biased.

I'm anti-cultism and anti-dictatorship, so clearly that would make me anti-Republican in their current guise.

A party that calls itself the 'party of family values' yet literally came within a whisker of voting in an actual, open and proud pedophile in Roy Moore only last year because he had the letter (R) beside his name, and that voted for someone who brags on camera about molesting women to be President.

A party that claims to want isolationism because the other candidate is a 'war monger' yet cheer on wildly as Trump tries to play the tough guy, threatening war wherever he can. And that pretends the huge ramping up of drone attacks across the middle east hasn't happened despite never shutting up about them through 2015-16.

A party that claims to essentially worship the constitution yet sh*ts all over the first amendment as their president tries to silence and discredit peaceful protesters (the right to peaceful assembly), the media and press wherever he can on a weekly basis, outright claiming that "90% of all bad news about me is fake" just 2-3 weeks back (free exercise of the press), and of religions with his failed Muslim ban (no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof).

A party more than happy to look the other way and ignore the undeniable truth that their current president colluded with a hostile foreign entity to influence the election, with even his own son showing he was meeting Kremlin officials to discuss sanctions (also illegal) in exchange for dirt on his political opponent. We've even seen -on multiple occasions- when faced with too much overwhelming evidence to deny any further, claim that "collusion is not a crime". Again this goes back to the fact that the Republican party is essentially a cult at this point, and in a cult reality is not welcome if it does not fit the narrative.

A party that will go after protesters who are exercising their first amendment rights peacefully, yet who will outright threaten serious levels of violence is anyone tries to take their first or second amendment rights from them (the Russian-funded NRA even decided to run a series of ads promoting terrorism because of this), to the point they wanted to make a cult hero out of the absurdly racist guy who thought the US was better with slavery having an armed standoff with the US government itself. But don't you dare kneel during the anthem because in Republican America, it's always one rule for thee, another for me.

A party that when point blank reality faces them with the cold truth, decide to reject reality and instead embrace "alternative facts" - because believing reality is whatever The Leader tells you it is, even though he lies on average more than a half dozen times a day, is how you know you're in a cult.

A party that moans endlessly about wasteful spending or the president playing golf, then completely shut up about anything like that as The Leader puts tends of millions of taxpayer dollars directly into his own businesses. One rule for thee, another for me... it's ok because The Leader said it is.

A party that has literally fought against critical thinking (key sign of a cult, right there) and built up a cult-like propaganda network (for the explicit purpose of propaganda) that are openly hostile to the truth if it does not fit their narrative, leading their average viewer to be less informed than someone who doesn't watch the news at all. Here it is in a 46-second, Hannity sized nutshell.

A party that convinces poor people to vote against their better interests time and again (I wonder why they want critical thinking gone?) as the party of billionaires repeatedly takes away (and fights against) their access to medical care, social services, access to education or better living conditions. Culminating in them voting in the most corrupt person to maybe ever even run for President on an anti-corruption platform (that he immediately backtracked on by stuffing his cabinet with some of the most corrupt people ever in office. See: Ajit Pai, Scott Pruitt for a start) while claiming he was "one of them" (you couldn't find someone further from them if you tried).

A party that stands by quietly as a demagogue tries to built a dictatorship around them, because they value their Cult of (R) more than their country itself. And as this weeks example, here is Trump claiming that he is allowed to shut down any investigation on himself because he is president (hint: he can't, that's why the US government structure has such a high emphasis on separation of powers - explicitly to avoid dictatorships). Will the same party that fetishises the Founding Fathers so much stand up and say "hold on, that's not what Jefferson & co wanted"? No, no they won't - and we both know that full well. Because much like this anthem protest, for most this has nothing to do with the flag or anthem itself and has everything to do with the fact it's black players protesting inequality. Because seemingly as always... one rule for thee, another for me.

A lot of people who have worked in the army and the reserve forces are unhappy about this. Those people have every right to be unhappy about it. If this was happening over here I'd be very unhappy about it.

If they have an issue with it they should look to petition against the right to peaceful protest in the first amendment, but somehow I feel they won't be doing that because then how would they stage their insanely racist protests they loved so much when the black guy was in office, or when they want to march around with their semi-assault rifles when they feel they might get taken away, or when they want to discriminate against LGBT people because 'religious freedom'?

But I certainly didn't see them opening their mouths to complain when disabled peaceful protesters were told by Republican Senators to "shut up" before being forcibly removed and arrested. And this is not the first time this happened, not by a long shot but still no peep from them. But hey, that's because The Leaders ordered it to happen and when you're part of the Cult of (R) you absolutely do not question The Leaders under any circumstance or you'll get cut off from the family altogether (as has happened with any Republicans who have dared speak out against the sh*tshow the Republican party has become). Totally not a cult though, totally not a cult.

And that right there is the problem with the Republican party, and why 9/10 of them disagree with the player protests despite them being so heavily in favour of protests (including heavily armed standoffs). It has nothing to do with it being disrespectful (as it is not in any way) and has feck all to do with protesting, but instead everything to do with what they are protesting. As the issue is inequality for minorities, they hate it and want nothing more than for it to be ignored and silenced.

Now you are getting silly.

Nope, see above. If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's probably a duck.

Some more examples:
- Trump claims, despite clear video evidence, that he had the biggest inauguration ever... Republicans and FOX viewers avidly jump on claiming it was the biggest inauguration ever, and all the video evidence is fake.

- Trump claims, despite his own lawyers saying otherwise, that he only lost the popular vote because of voter fraud... Republicans avidly jump up and down that he only lost the popular vote because of voter fraud.

- Trump makes up terrorist incident in Sweden that never happened... Republicans go mad about terrorist incident in Sweden that never happened.

- Trump claims Obama bugged Trump Tower... this is proven false, and yet Republicans are still claiming Obama bugged Trump Tower.

- Trump, after claiming Neo Nazis to have "very fine people" among them with which Republicans had no apparent issue (shocking, I know) claimed counter protesters at Charlottesville were responsible for a Neo Nazi terrorist attack on US soil, and Republicans felt the need to peddle that one too. Sure, The Leader told us so it must be true.

- In 2016 he claimed Obama founded ISIS, and that Hillary Clinton has been fighting them her entire adult life. Which would mean Obama founded ISIS when he was three years old (when she was 18). Sounds like a bad joke, but hey if you're a Republican... story checks out. They looooved peddling that one during that campaign cycle (the lads in St. Petersburg really had their fingers on the pulse there to be fair to them).

- Ted Cruz's dad assassinated JFK. Yeah, sure, f*** it why not? The Leader said it so it's true.

- The unemployment rate is 42% (2016)... weird, I've not heard that metric used since oh, about January 20th, 2018.

And you can deny this all you want, but Trump himself has even said as much when bragging “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters”. And you know what? He's proven to be largely correct on that one. There is literally nothing the guy could say that tens of millions of Americans wouldn't get behind, from "the sky is purple and the sun is green because Obama" to "if black players want to cause so much trouble in the NFL, maybe the league should just ban them" - the latter wouldn't even cause a furrowed brow of surprise from me at this point, to be honest.

I never mentioned Weeden or Hundley at any time. I did state that imo he isn't a good QB but the way some people were talking he should be starting which I don't agree with. I don't think there are many places where he would be a good backup either.

Apologies as I had mixed up Hundley with Matt Flynn who had been out of the league for two years:

Eagle Eye: I'd rate Weeden as a better QB than Kaepernick.

Eagle Eye: Matt Flynn is out there, he has done a job for the Packers before, I think he would be a far more attractive target.

Well Trump is the President of the United States of America so his word is important. I know you are anti-Republican so that probably sickens you.

And thank you for leading in to yet another one... small government, and government interference into private businesses. One of the favourite things to bitch and moan about from Republicans for years now, but the moment The Leader does it... well we must not question The Leader so of course they support it.

Now seeing the reaction to the Constitution and US Flag Code we know full well that those complaining about these protests do not care about them whatsoever (or maybe better put, feel only they should have these rights and not those uppity minorities), it's no surprise to me that this doesn't matter to you or to Republicans either, despite them also loving to claim to be the "party of law and order":

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227
Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,

See section b.3 of that, it explicitly states that because he is the president he cannot try to influence the matter, and his words cannot by law be given importance on this matter. In other words Trump broke the law (again) and Republicans are once again cheerleading for it.

We are going down the political route here again. This is sport and business. Sport is supposed to be fun for people to watch and it's not with these protests going on.

And guess what? It's also not fun watching players forced to stand for an anthem and pretend to not have any issues with it. It's also not fun to watch people be silenced because the US President decided to involve himself directly in it, breaking the law in doing so. But clearly that doesn't matter.

Take out of it what you will. I'd be of the opinion that in thirty or forty years people will read about it and say how foolish both sides were.

One side managed to annoy a lot of people by kneeling during the national anthem and the whole point they were trying to make was lost in the furore.

The other side, the NFL, could have eliminated the whole thing by just not having the national anthem played at games.

I agree that they could have avoided it by not having the anthem involved, but they decided to do so and in the process brought politics into the sport. And then the US President get involved further, probably breaking the law in the process, by directly influencing employment decisions of private entities - if he had not done that, the issue would likely have died off over a few weeks. But he didn't, because the dog whistling opportunity about uppity blacks for his base was as usual, just too much for his fragile ego to pass up on.

The NFL decided to side with him, and along with the likes of soundbites about "inmates running the prison" it really is not going to be remembered well at all and will be something they will want to be forgotten ASAP (especially with growing international audiences).

Billy86

TOss Sweep wrote: »

My own thought is while I disagree with the NFLs rules they are within their right to do what they are doing. They are in the private sector and anyone who works in the US knows you have very little rights in most states when it comes to working. Take MA considered a Liberal state. MA is a work at will state and there is very little protection for employees. You turn up do your job and get on with it. Anything else and they can fire you. There is some protection but it aint great. If I did what the NFL players were doing I could be sacked on the spot. Private sector as I mentioned above is not protected.

This is largely true, though for something like the anthem it's a bit grey as to how it stands - for example can your employer force you to stand in the middle of the office and recite a Christian or Muslim prayer at the start of every work shift? Of course being a legally grey area means the billions of dollars of the owners would probably comfortably win a legal battle against the millions of dollars of the players, and I reckon the option to stay in the locker room probably covers them on that end. Though specifically with regard to Kaepernick while I'm unsure of the league's liability, it would appear that laws have been broken by Trump... again (code 227).

There's a decent, quick breakdown on it here from last year, though the last paragraph is kind of funny given what has come out in recent days - https://lawandcrime.com/uncategorized/aba-legal-fact-check-can-you-be-forced-to-participate-in-the-national-anthem/

eagle eye

Billy86 wrote:

Which is completely intentional, because they didn't want to talk about the issue being protested so they decided to just claim it is disrespectful for people to protesting even if it is done in a manner that the US Constitution and flag code say are 100% acceptable and in no way disrespectful.

No use responding to everything but this piece is important.

There are millions of Americans unhappy with kneeling who don't have agendas. You seem to think that a lot of people are more intelligent than they actually are.

There are many African-Americans that are not happy about the kneeling but who are concerned about police shootings.

Just as an aside, if you are going to walk away from football over political/social issues I pity you. Sport is supposed to be an escape from all that stuff. Stop following the social side of the sport and stick with the football.

I watch the game because I love it. It's a sport and it's fun. I don't read TMZ or any of the other crap magazines which talk about off the field. Unfortunately these days you get to hear things even though you do your best to avoid it but even then I try my best to ignore it.

TOss Sweep

Billy86 wrote: »

This is largely true,

This is largely true? No everything I said is very true. If my Employer doesn't like what I said or doesn't want me to protest peacefully they can sack me. Employees are protected on very few things and if you feel you have been dismissed unfairly you will want a fairly air tight case to prove it.

for example can your employer force you to stand in the middle of the office and recite a Christian or Muslim prayer at the start of every work shift?

See this right here is a stupid comparison because you 100% know no company is ever going to do that because most if not all companies stay away from religious practices in the work place as they know it is not ethical given the diversity. There is never a case for this to ever happen in any work place that isn't in the entertainment industry or sports.

But if the company I worked for did try **** like that I would know this place is not for me and leave. Why bother go through all the hassle. You have the right to leave and find a different job.

Simple fact what the NFL are doing is not illegal.

Podge_irl

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Simple fact what the NFL are doing is not illegal.

I don't think the vast majority of people think it is illegal. I'm fairly sure they are within their rights to do it (dependent on what exactly is in the CBA - though that still wouldn't make it "illegal").

It is utterly cowardly though.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Eagles not going to the White House, Trump not hosting Eagles (depending on your view).
Instead Trump will go full political with it and listen to a band/anthem.
You'd kinda like/expect the President to host both sides, work on the issue, come forward with a solution/agreement/compromise.......but no, this idiot uses it for his own gain. Long 2.5yrs until he's out of office, at the earliest.

TOss Sweep

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think the vast majority of people think it is illegal. I'm fairly sure they are within their rights to do it (dependent on what exactly is in the CBA - though that still wouldn't make it "illegal").

It is utterly cowardly though.

I would disagree a vast majority think its illegal and confuse what constitutional rights means. Well in the US anyways. Both sides of the political fence are guilty of this here.

It doesn't matter what our view is on it and as I said before I think the NFL should be ashamed of themselves but they are within their legal rights to do what they are doing and that is the key here. Your company is not legally bound to allow you to exercise your constitutional rights in the workplace. That was my point.

Podge_irl

TOss Sweep wrote: »

I would disagree a vast majority think its illegal and confuse what constitutional rights means. Well in the US anyways. Both sides of the political fence are guilty of this here.

It doesn't matter what our view is on it and as I said before I think the NFL should be ashamed of themselves but they are within their legal rights to do what they are doing and that is the key here. Your company is not legally bound to allow you to exercise your constitutional rights in the workplace. That was my point.

I still think a minority of the outcry/commentary has been about their legal right to do so though. It's just ****ty, ****ty PR and a cowardly move.

I would agree that a lot of people spout out about the first amendment etc, though I think they use it more as a symbolic issue than a legal argument - i.e. professing patriotism while stomping (legally) on the very things that define America because you find them inconvenient. Though maybe I am incorrect on that. From my perspective at least the argument shouldn't be focused on spurious arguments about legality, not least because it allows a defence that focuses only the legal issues rather than the motivation behind it.

notobtuse

[font=Roboto, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif]Football is a team sport, both on and off the field. Most of the Eagles players didn't want to come anyway. You win as a team, you lose as a team. You go to the White House as a team or you don't go as a team. What's the big deal? I guess the big deal is Trump simply denied the players that weren't coming a platform to make a statement that we all know our lovely media would use primarily as an opportunity to focus on the players that chose not to come and to further bash Trump. He denied them that. Our media has been fuming over it.  I love it![/font]

[font=Roboto, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif]And I'm an Eagles fan (my team in the NFC)... and I live an hour and a half north of Philly.  Even have a piece of Veteran's stadium turf and two stadium chairs from when they tore it down.  I've been to numerous games... but that doesn't change my view on the player protest nonsense.[/font]

WinnyThePoo

One of my fav Onion articles

'I just wish nfl players could find a way to protest without starting a national dialogue'

https://www.theonion.com/i-just-wish-nfl-players-could-find-a-way-to-protest-wit-1819585036

Billy86

eagle eye wrote: »

No use responding to everything but this piece is important.

There are millions of Americans unhappy with kneeling who don't have agendas. You seem to think that a lot of people are more intelligent than they actually are.

There are many African-Americans that are not happy about the kneeling but who are concerned about police shootings.

Just as an aside, if you are going to walk away from football over political/social issues I pity you. Sport is supposed to be an escape from all that stuff. Stop following the social side of the sport and stick with the football.

I watch the game because I love it. It's a sport and it's fun. I don't read TMZ or any of the other crap magazines which talk about off the field. Unfortunately these days you get to hear things even though you do your best to avoid it but even then I try my best to ignore it.

I'm not turning my back on watching the sport, I'm just cancelling my gamepass subscription as soon as that window opens and watching on streams for the season.

The millions of Americans unhappy with it who don't have agendas don't have a reason to be unhappy with it, as it is entirely enshrined and protected in the first amendment and the US flag code. Yet the NFL has sided with them because Trump said so... and I get that they would have been trying to extend an olive branch, but it was done an entirely cowardly manner.

And as is to be expected with Trump, that olive branch has been thrown right back in their face as only days after this he goes and cancels the Eagles' White House visit in as divisive a manner as possible.

"The Philadelphia Eagles are unable to come to the White House with their full team to be celebrated tomorrow," Trump said in a statement. "They disagree with their President because he insists that they proudly stand for the National Anthem, hand on heart, in honor of the great men and women of our military and the people of our country. The Eagles wanted to send a smaller delegation, but the 1,000 fans planning to attend the event deserve better."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1003956743133650944

That's the thing - Trump WANTS this kind of division and goes looking for it almost every single day in one way or another. As the NFL are finding out, currying favour with him just leads to getting your face spat in... which they, and just about everyone, should know is the inevitable outcome, time and again.

Hazys

For all the people upset about the kneeling, this is your patriotic leader realizing he doesn’t know the words to God Bless America. It’s beyond embarrassing at this stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozz7K-QNF4Q

Billy86

And lo-and-behold, the propaganda machine is already churning out the lies:



Fox News falsely implies praying Eagles were protesting, and the players aren't having it

As the anchor delivers the story, images of Eagles players are shown on screen. The first three photos are of players (Zach Ertz, Corey Clement and Jordan Matthews) kneeling — but they’re praying before games, not kneeling during the national anthem. The fourth is of Malcolm Jenkins and Rodney McLeod raising their fists during the national anthem, while Chris Long puts his arm around Jenkins.

Ertz and Long responded on their personal Twitter accounts and accused the outlet of pushing the agenda of the president with false information.

https://twitter.com/ZERTZ_86/status/1003970728008519680

https://twitter.com/JOEL9ONE/status/1003990054505730048

notobtuse

Billy86 wrote: »

And lo-and-behold, the propaganda machine is already churning out the lies:



Fox News falsely implies praying Eagles were protesting, and the players aren't having it

As the anchor delivers the story, images of Eagles players are shown on screen. The first three photos are of players (Zach Ertz, Corey Clement and Jordan Matthews) kneeling — but they’re praying before games, not kneeling during the national anthem. The fourth is of Malcolm Jenkins and Rodney McLeod raising their fists during the national anthem, while Chris Long puts his arm around Jenkins.

Ertz and Long responded on their personal Twitter accounts and accused the outlet of pushing the agenda of the president with false information.

https://twitter.com/ZERTZ_86/status/1003970728008519680

https://twitter.com/JOEL9ONE/status/1003990054505730048

Fox News immediately issued and apology for the kneeling mistake with the Eagles.  You forgot to mention that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/06/05/fox-news-shows-eagles-kneeling-in-a-story-about-canceled-white-house-trip-they-were-praying/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.de1232d482ac

I understand there were some 81 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team expected to come and the secret service worked on them all getting access to the president..  In the end fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?  This is more on the Eagles than Trump.

Tell me how

Hazys wrote:

For all the people upset about the kneeling, this is your patriotic leader realizing he doesn’t know the words to God Bless America. It’s beyond embarrassing at this stage.

Came here to post that.

Also, there was a video of a white baseball player wearing just a pair of y fronts dancing in a spray of champagne when they won a divisional championship game last year. The y fronts were a mock up of the US flag.

No issue there in terms of disrespecting the flag but the footballers are being targeted.

Billy86

notobtuse wrote: »

Fox News immediately issued and apology for the kneeling mistake with the Eagles.  You forgot to mention that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/06/05/fox-news-shows-eagles-kneeling-in-a-story-about-canceled-white-house-trip-they-were-praying/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.de1232d482ac

I understand there were some 70 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team invited.  Fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?

I hadn't seen their apology, but this kind of stuff is so commonplace for them and there is zero chance they thought Zach Ertz was lined up for the anthem, in the red zone, facing away from the pitch. They got caught with their pants down on a completely intentional lie (again).

There is a team represented - by those attending. Except Trump is such an insanely insecure and thin-skinned little snowflake that he decided to uninvite everyone, dividing the US public further in the process. If this were not the case, he would have allowed the players who did want to go, to go. But as always, all he wants to do at any given opportunity is cause division among Americans - and this season will be no different when it comes to players staying in the locker room. Can't wait to see the Trump supporters all of a sudden take huge issue with that come August/September, and the NFL will in a roundabout way deserve it for their cowardice.

Podge_irl

notobtuse wrote: »

I understand there were some 81 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team expected to come and the secret service worked on them all getting access to the president..  In the end fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?  This is more on the Eagles than Trump.

Then state that as the reason for cancelling it. Don't state that its because the Eagles disagree you should have to stand for the anthem.

It is worth bearing in mind however that the protests started before Trump and despite his pathetic attempts to make it entirely about him, it isn't. I have difficulty thinking the NFL's response wasn't entirely about Trump however.

TOss Sweep

notobtuse wrote: »

Fox News immediately issued and apology for the kneeling mistake with the Eagles.  You forgot to mention that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/06/05/fox-news-shows-eagles-kneeling-in-a-story-about-canceled-white-house-trip-they-were-praying/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.de1232d482ac

.

Im sorry but FOX apologies mean fook all to anyone. They got caught out like they always do and always have to eat humble pie after the fact. The sad state of affairs of US Networks and their political drivel. Had they reported correctly in the first place they wouldn't have to apologize. Usual Nonsense from a US network.

I understand there were some 81 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team expected to come and the secret service worked on them all getting access to the president..  In the end fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?  This is more on the Eagles than Trump

Clearly a Trump fan I am betting. Patriots didn't send a full team and I would wager the same amount of guys that didn't show with the Patriots was the same amount as the Eagles. Tom Brady didn't even show up. Patriots in 2015 sent all players and staff. In 2017 only sent 47 Players and Coaches. Did Trump cancel on them? Nope. Typical Trump stirring the political Pot to make a sad statement. So this is more on Trump. Doesn't matter what your political agenda is here you cannot defend Trump for what he did. Nonsense.

notobtuse

TOss Sweep wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

Fox News immediately issued and apology for the kneeling mistake with the Eagles.  You forgot to mention that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/06/05/fox-news-shows-eagles-kneeling-in-a-story-about-canceled-white-house-trip-they-were-praying/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.de1232d482ac

.

Im sorry but FOX apologies mean fook all to anyone. They got caught out like they always do and always have to eat humble pie after the fact. The sad state of affairs of US Networks and their political drivel. Had they reported correctly in the first place they wouldn't have to apologize. Usual Nonsense from a US network.

I understand there were some 81 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team expected to come and the secret service worked on them all getting access to the president..  In the end fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?  This is more on the Eagles than Trump

Clearly a Trump fan I am betting. Patriots didn't send a full team and I would wager the same amount of guys that didn't show with the Patriots was the same amount as the Eagles. Tom Brady didn't even show up. Patriots in 2015 sent all players and staff. In 2017 only sent 47 Players and Coaches. Did Trump cancel on them? Nope. Typical Trump stirring the political Pot to make a sad statement. So this is more on Trump. Doesn't matter what your political agenda is here you cannot defend Trump for what he did. Nonsense.

It's now being reported by the NFL Network that only Nick Foles was guaranteed to show... and possible two other players, at most.  That's not a TEAM... that's NONSENSE!

Billy86

Just goes to show what a snowflake Trump is and how unpopular he is in the league, that almost nobody on a team that did not have a single kneeling player wanted to be near him, and just as predictable he didn't have the courage to come out and say "basically none of them want to meet me".

And don't forget, this is the guy the owners sided with over their own players and the US constitution just two weeks back.

Itssoeasy

The way that Fox News and trump with those untrue stories and statements just show you how thin skinned and narsasistic Donald trump is. Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

Btw as an eagles fan, no they didn't abandon the fans by their actions. Also the fact trump said they "disagreed with their president" was laughable. Oh how dare these players disagree with the president.

Also, the reason kapernick and then other players kneel is because a former member of the us military who was trying to get on an NFL team as a long snapper suggested that kneeling would be more appropriate than sitting on the bench which is what was happening initially.

1. No eagles player in the regular or post season knelt during the anthem.
2. No player "escaped to the locker room"

notobtuse

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The way that Fox News and trump with those untrue stories and statements just show you how thin skinned and narsasistic Donald trump is. Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

Btw as an eagles fan, no they didn't abandon the fans by their actions. Also the fact trump said they "disagreed with their president" was laughable. Oh how dare these players disagree with the president.

Also, the reason kapernick and then other players kneel is because a former member of the us military who was trying to get on an NFL team as a long snapper suggested that kneeling would be more appropriate than sitting on the bench which is what was happening initially.

1. No eagles player in the regular or post season knelt during the anthem.
2. No player "escaped to the locker room"

I live in Eagles country (half way between Philadelphia and New York City but in PA). Too many Eagles fans, some Giants fans, and almost no Jets fans.  We even get a free cup of coffee at all the Dunkin Donuts here the day after an Eagles win. Let me tell you... A lot of their fans DO feel the Eagles disrespected many of their fans beliefs by shunning a White House visit (and living near Amish country... shunning is never considered a good thing).

WinnyThePoo

notobtuse wrote: »

I live in Eagles country (half way between Philadelphia and New York City but in PA). Too many Eagles fans, some Giants fans, and almost no Jets fans.  We even get a free cup of coffee at all the Dunkin Donuts here the day after an Eagles win. Let me tell you... A lot of their fans DO feel the Eagles disrespected many of their fans beliefs by shunning a White House visit (and living near Amish country... shunning is never considered a good thing).

Why do people have to be forced to respect trump?. He doesn't respect them.

TOss Sweep

notobtuse wrote: »

It's now being reported by the NFL Network that only Nick Foles was guaranteed to show... and possible two other players, at most.  That's not a TEAM... that's NONSENSE!

What is nonsense is the President of the United States of America acting like a big child. As already pointed out the Patriots didnt fully attend in 2017. Acting like a child is not helpful to anyone. And your posts are as bad as Fox news without the full count you have said "Foles and possible two other players. Working off hear say I see.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

They did though

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/sports/-new-england-patriots-visit-white-house-donald-trump.html

Itssoeasy

TOss Sweep wrote: »

What is nonsense is the President of the United States of America acting like a big child. As already pointed out the Patriots didnt fully attend in 2017. Acting like a child is not helpful to anyone. And your posts are as bad as Fox news without the full count you have said "Foles and possible two other players. Working off hear say I see.



They did though

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/sports/-new-england-patriots-visit-white-house-donald-trump.html

So tom Brady was there then ? Funny because I remembering him not being there because of family business.

TOss Sweep

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So tom Brady was there then ? Funny because I remembering him not being there because of family business.

Tom Brady didn't go. Most of the rest of the team did well I say most many players decided not to go

Tell me how

TOss Sweep wrote:

They did though

TOss Sweep wrote:

Tom Brady didn't go. Most of the rest of the team did well I say most many players decided not to go

Which is it?

TOss Sweep

Tell me how wrote: »

Which is it?

What are you banging on about? Tom Brady is not the whole team.

I misread itssoeasy but thanks for joining in to point that out with your first post in the American Football Forum. Welcome by the way.

TOss Sweep

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

I misread what you said my apologies. I thought you said they all didnt go.

Tell me how

TOss Sweep wrote:

I misread itssoeasy but thanks for joining in to point that out with your first post in the American Football Forum. Welcome by the way.

Wow. Way to make people feel welcome.

It's also my second post Columbo. Why not read my first and lose the rag over that one as well.

TOss Sweep

Tell me how wrote: »

Wow. Way to make people feel welcome.

It's also my second post Columbo. Why not read my first and lose the rag over that one as well.

Lose the rag? :pac:

eagle eye

Here we go with the political bull. I'm out, I want to talk about American football. That's the only reason I come to the American football forum.

Podge_irl

eagle eye wrote: »

Here we go with the political bull. I'm out, I want to talk about American football. That's the only reason I come to the American football forum.

Kind of an odd choice to open a thread solely about the protests then.

TOss Sweep

eagle eye wrote: »

Here we go with the political bull. I'm out, I want to talk about American football. That's the only reason I come to the American football forum.

Are you out of the whole forum or just this thread? But this thread was always going to involve politics how could it not? Mind boggling.

notobtuse

TOss Sweep wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

It's now being reported by the NFL Network that only Nick Foles was guaranteed to show... and possible two other players, at most.  That's not a TEAM... that's NONSENSE!

What is nonsense is the President of the United States of America acting like a big child. As already pointed out the Patriots didnt fully attend in 2017. Acting like a child is not helpful to anyone. And your posts are as bad as Fox news without the full count you have said "Foles and possible two other players.  Working off hear say I see.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

They did though

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/sports/-new-england-patriots-visit-white-house-donald-trump.html

No.

http://www.newsweek.com/fewer-10-eagles-visiting-white-house-may-have-just-been-nick-foles-report-961960

TOss Sweep

notobtuse wrote: »

No.

http://www.newsweek.com/fewer-10-eagles-visiting-white-house-may-have-just-been-nick-foles-report-961960

Yes. Mike Garafolo clearly said in his report "He was told" so that makes it hearsay no matter how you swing it. Without an official statement from the Eagles themselves or the white house for that matter on the actual numbers supposedly travelling everything on the numbers going is nothing more than hearsay.

Podge_irl

If Trump was cancelling the White House visit because the majority of the Eagles team were not going to turn up he should have said as much. He didn't. He instead said he was cancelling it because the Eagles disagreed that players should stand of the anthem. Which is an outright lie.

Anyone questioning the methodology of those protesting should bear this in mind. It literally doesn't matter what they do, there is a large section of the population who will hold it against them anyway. Those people will be on the wrong side of history, just like those who were against Tommie Smith and John Carlos. Bloody hell, are we going to re-write the history books to say that the 1936 Olympics was an epic display of German patriotism???

StringerBell

Suppose Trump still had this in his memory when deciding to cancel the Eagles invite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnQ1CbKbAeU

More then just Tom Brady didn't go, Bennet, Long, Amendola and I am sure more. Thats just off the top of my head.

Look, none of this is remotely surprising given the man baby that occupies the White House currently.

Foxtrol

Nice to see Bidwell of the Cardinals joining Elway in the ranks of absolute hypocrites, telling players to keep politics out of football and then using their teams to drive their own political agenda.

What they really meant was 'keep your politics out of football'.

Podge_irl

Hypocrisy in the NFL you say? Why I never...

JaMarcus

No deal for Leveon Bell, he'll play under the franchise tag again. His agent says itll likely be his last season as a Steeler.

raze_them_all_

JaMarcus wrote: »

No deal for Leveon Bell, he'll play under the franchise tag again. His agent says itll likely be his last season as a Steeler.

If he has any sense hell not report till week 11. The Steelers will ride him so hard knowing they ain't resigning him

JaMarcus

I may have posted that in the wrong thread. My bad.

Weepsie

Trump wants season long bans for players.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/american-football/44910040

Billy86

Well done NFL, I'm hope you're happy with the outcome of your pandering. Sure there's absolutely no way whatsoever that this was the entirely obvious outcome the moment they lubed up and bent over. It's also illegal for the president of the US to get involved in private businesses affairs, but sure laws stopped mattering in that country over a year ago.