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Withdrawing from the Union

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  • 28-05-2018 12:53pm
    #1
    angiogoir
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭


    Hello all,
    I am withdrawing from my civil service union because I object to their continual campaigns outside of the work they are supposed to be doing, ie protecting our rights in the workplace. They should campaign on their own time imo.

    Is there a downside to doing this? For example, if they are negotiating pay rises etc.

    PS I have no objection to Unions and support them. I've been a member for almost 20 years.
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    No, you'll still get the same pay rises (and cuts) as everyone else. The only time it could potentially get a bit tricky for you if it there's an industrial dispute and the union instructs its members to take certain actions. I guess it could potentially become a bit contentious if you do, or are asked to do, something that causes an issue.


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    #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    When I was secretary of my branch, there was no issue with members leaving. Its your money after all, you can do with it as you wish.

    The only advice i would give is that there may be an issue if you look to rejoin at a future date. We had a huge membership during the recession and people started to leave in their droves as time progressed and the economy got better. We then had a pretty big Industrial relations dispute which looked like it may have escalated to industrial action.

    As soon as there was an inkling of any action, a lot of the people who left looked to rejoin. We reviewed each of them on an individual basis, accpeted them all and let them know that any future repeat would jeopardise their possibility of being accepted.

    you cannot leave and rejoin as you please, as that defeats the whole point of the Union.


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    #4
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As soon as there was an inkling of any action, a lot of the people who left looked to rejoin. We reviewed each of them on an individual basis, accpeted them all and let them know that any future repeat would jeopardise their possibility of being accepted.

    .

    You do surprise me:rolleyes:


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    #5
    Yenwod
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Yenwod


    I don't know if it's the case anymore but it used to be if you wanted to rejoin the CPSU, you would have to pay all your back fees from when you left


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    You do surprise me:rolleyes:

    ??? I'm lost as to the sarcasm / rolleyes. Are you saying they should not have been accepted back? Or is it that they should have been accepted back without question?

    In either case, why?


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    #7
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    prob more to the fact that no one is shocked you accepted every single one back.

    A big huff and puff about reviewing all individually but at the end of the day, that's all it was. Huff and puff. You were always gonna accept them back to boost numbers, thereby boosting money coming in...


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    #8
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    ??? I'm lost as to the sarcasm / rolleyes. Are you saying they should not have been accepted back? Or is it that they should have been accepted back without question?

    In either case, why?

    It's like health insurance. You can't just jump in when you get sick... Although done unions might cut you some slack.
    Also if you are leaving a union you are relying on the rest of your unionised co-workers to do negotiating on your behalf and then reaping the benefits.
    plus if management gets whiff of a union being diminished then things can change very quickly.


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    #9
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,209 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    angiogoir wrote: »
    Hello all,
    I am withdrawing from my civil service union because I object to their continual campaigns outside of the work they are supposed to be doing, ie protecting our rights in the workplace. They should campaign on their own time imo.

    Is there a downside to doing this? For example, if they are negotiating pay rises etc.

    PS I have no objection to Unions and support them. I've been a member for almost 20 years.

    Strange reason to leave a Union. Virtually no time for paid officials is taken up with campaigns outside of work issues.

    Do you pay your Income Continuance through your Union? That’s the main reason I’ll never leave my Union.


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    #10
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Strange reason to leave a Union. Virtually no time for paid officials is taken up with campaigns outside of work issues.

    Do you pay your Income Continuance through your Union? That’s the main reason I’ll never leave my Union.

    The union would just be like a broker for Income Continuance though! So couldn't you shop around yourself with the money you save on union subscriptions?


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    #11
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ??? I'm lost as to the sarcasm / rolleyes. Are you saying they should not have been accepted back? Or is it that they should have been accepted back without question?

    In either case, why?

    I've never been a fan of unions - I can see the argument for them but in reality they tend to be all about the money. I am not in any way surprised that after long and careful consideration it was decided to give them a stern talking to....... and then take the money.

    In fairness though public sector unions have tended to get some good deals for their members, generally speaking to the detriment of the country as a whole - but fact is they are ostensibly there for their members, not the country as a whole, so that's not really a fair stick to beat them with.

    I'm just not a fan. I've never been a member of one and with any luck I never will be. If I ever do "choose" to become a member, it will be solely because I have to be one in order to do certain job - that's basically extortion. Pay me, or I will block your access to employment.

    You can dress it up as being for the greater good all you want - but in essence, that's what it boils down to.


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yawns wrote: »
    prob more to the fact that no one is shocked you accepted every single one back.

    A big huff and puff about reviewing all individually but at the end of the day, that's all it was. Huff and puff. You were always gonna accept them back to boost numbers, thereby boosting money coming in...

    Yeah, because all that cash is going straight into my pockets and I'm financially reimbursed for the increased membership :rolleyes:

    Or maybe, the whole point of the union is to stick together through the good and bad times? Maybe it was a chance to find out why they left in the first place, to prevent future leavers? As well as an opportunity to remind them that they would be liable for any dues they missed in the intervening period?
    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I've never been a fan of unions - I can see the argument for them but in reality they tend to be all about the money. I am not in any way surprised that after long and careful consideration it was decided to give them a stern talking to....... and then take the money.

    In fairness though public sector unions have tended to get some good deals for their members, generally speaking to the detriment of the country as a whole - but fact is they are ostensibly there for their members, not the country as a whole, so that's not really a fair stick to beat them with.

    I'm just not a fan. I've never been a member of one and with any luck I never will be. If I ever do "choose" to become a member, it will be solely because I have to be one in order to do certain job - that's basically extortion. Pay me, or I will block your access to employment.

    You can dress it up as being for the greater good all you want - but in essence, that's what it boils down to.

    As I said, its no skin off my nose whether the money comes in or not. Being a union rep is a royal pain in the hole at times, the very definition of a thankless task. People need to remember though, that a lot of the terms, conditions and work practices that are standard in this country only came about through unionised collective bargaining.


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    #13
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I've never been a fan of unions - I can see the argument for them but in reality they tend to be all about the money. I am not in any way surprised that after long and careful consideration it was decided to give them a stern talking to....... and then take the money.

    In fairness though public sector unions have tended to get some good deals for their members, generally speaking to the detriment of the country as a whole - but fact is they are ostensibly there for their members, not the country as a whole, so that's not really a fair stick to beat them with.

    I

    Yes they definitely get us great deals like cuts in pay, increased deductions, longer working week, poorer overtime rates :eek:


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    #14
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As I said, its no skin off my nose whether the money comes in or not. Being a union rep is a royal pain in the hole at times, the very definition of a thankless task. People need to remember though, that a lot of the terms, conditions and work practices that are standard in this country only came about through unionised collective bargaining.

    True.
    But it's a tale as old as time, power corrupts. Lofty ideals have long since given way to money grabbing in most unions - certainly all the bigger ones.

    I work in a reasonably big specialist construction company - split roughly 50 / 50 between site workers and office workers. Company policy is to pay in excess of CIF recommended rates in all instances, yet all site workers have to be members of a union because the unions won't allow non union workers to work on site.
    The usual argument they make for this is to protect conditions / prevent undercutting of pay scales - how does that apply to people being paid above the going rate? To me the answer is fairly clear - they are simply not as interested in the conditions of any individual employee, as they are in the fee from that employee.
    They are just charging for permission to work - what's that if not extortion?


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    #15
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Leyla Glamorous Sympathizer wrote: »
    Yes they definitely get us great deals like cuts in pay, increased deductions, longer working week, poorer overtime rates :eek:

    Times have been tough in recent years both public and private - but the overall trend as far as I can see, is that governments buy votes off public sector unions.

    Sit tight, elections will be soon enough - cha ching:D


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    #16
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Times have been tough in recent years both public and private - but the overall trend as far as I can see, is that governments buy votes off public sector unions.

    Sit tight, elections will be soon enough - cha ching:D

    I did overtime last year. I worked it out at an extra 97cents above my base rate before deductions.
    Not exactly the golden goose some believe it is:)


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    #17
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,567 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Definitely where my wife works people leave and rejoin whenever something is looming, it’s common and acceptable practice where they work.

    I’m withdrawing from my own union myself.


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    #18
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Leyla Glamorous Sympathizer wrote: »
    I did overtime last year. I worked it out at an extra 97cents above my base rate before deductions.
    Not exactly the golden goose some believe it is:)

    As I said, cha ching:D


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    #19
    Glenbhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Glenbhoy


    _Brian wrote: »
    Definitely where my wife works people leave and rejoin whenever something is looming, it’s common and acceptable practice where they work.

    I’m withdrawing from my own union myself.

    Why do people rejoin when action is looming? I would have thought the opposite.


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    #20
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Lots of people don't want to strike. They get forced into it by management and unions with no option to opt out.


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    #21
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Glenbhoy wrote: »
    Why do people rejoin when action is looming? I would have thought the opposite.

    Because they have to make themselves available to work as normal whilst other members are on a picket or working to rule. So they'll be easily identifiable.
    Meanwhile, if the union succeeds in an action the people who left and sided with the company will be seen as reaping the benefits of other people's actions.

    We had it in our staff room, we went out on strike for younger entrants pay ... but a lot of the younger non-union teachers were delighted as they were getting a day off. Then they moaned about 'the older members who threw them under a bus'.
    Plus many non-union have no qualms in bending the ear of the union rep about problems they have with management or contracts.

    I know quite a few who have nearly been shafted as schools try to pull a fast one with inferior contracts etc. Union stepped in , sorted. No drawn out legal fees. School management aren't so ready to be underhanded the next time.
    A good few new schools I know who haven't gotten a union in place (always hire new teachers!). The staff get ridden, a lot of older management were retired off early so some of the the new breed have no clue about workplace relations. That's my experience anyway.


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    #22
    Cork Lass
    Registered Users Posts: 6,855 ✭✭✭Cork Lass


    angiogoir wrote: »
    Hello all,
    I am withdrawing from my civil service union because I object to their continual campaigns outside of the work they are supposed to be doing, ie protecting our rights in the workplace. They should campaign on their own time imo.

    Is there a downside to doing this? For example, if they are negotiating pay rises etc.

    PS I have no objection to Unions and support them. I've been a member for almost 20 years.


    As previously stated in the thread, no union official actively spends time advocating for campaigns. The one thing I would check before resigning is any benefits you may have as a union member. I know some of them have insurance policies for their members, critical illness and death In service being one. Also, if you have income continuance or discounted car insurance through your membership you will have to contact these companies and inform them that you are no longer a member.


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