Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

bruschi

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

It's only a problem that is highlighted by the media when one county in particular do it though, isn't that right Donal Og and Donal Og eile?

Let's ignore that that the current All-Ireland Champions are by far the worst in the game for it.

that was a response to a poster who claimed that "clowns" over Wexford underage teams coach it to them under Davy Fitz instructions and as if the "tactic" of spare arm fouling is only to do with the big bad Davy machine and all who play for him.

By the by, I've not heard of anyone claiming any of the coaches of the Wexford underage set up are clowns, nor have I ever heard of the ludicrous claims that the players have to be coached out of this tactic upon their return to clubs.

To be honest, calling another counties underage coaches clowns is fairly derogatory, but as its in your own county thread, so be it.

kkclubhurling

Players are training tonight I believe and will be told the team, I'd be very surprised to see a few of the guys who have been injured back, given the 6 day turn around they've had no chance to prove their fitness so unless they got a good lump of hurling done in training before the Galway game it'd be a massive gamble.

In saying that this has the looks of a game where Cody throws a curve ball written all over it, wouldn't be one bit surprised to see someone who hasn't featured yet thrown in, someone like Conor Browne or even Mossy get in.

I also heard Brassil scored 5 or 6 points from play in an u20 challenge on Saturday night, you'd wonder if that sort of thing might get a lad a place on the 26, one thing I'd be confident of is that Cody has a serious plan, we played them down there earlier this year and obviously lost down their 2 years ago too, one of Cody's greatest attributes is his ability to get things right when he has a second shot at an opposition.

mountgomery burns

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

It's only a problem that is highlighted by the media when one county in particular do it though, isn't that right Donal Og and Donal Og eile?

Let's ignore that that the current All-Ireland Champions are by far the worst in the game for it.

Donal Og and Donal Og Eile? You've lost me

I think you could do with reigning in the paranoia, similar to the post on the all Ireland thread about "only Kilkenny not allowed complain about referees".

Every County does it anyway as I said.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Donal Og and Donal Og Eile? You've lost me

I think you could do with reigning in the paranoia, similar to the post on the all Ireland thread about "only Kilkenny not allowed complain about referees".

Every County does it anyway as I said.

Yeah you do seem lost, I was agreeing with you that all counties do it. My point was that Donal Og used the Sunday Game to highlight how Kilkenny's use of the spare arm was ruining the game but choose to ignore it when other counties use of it was just as bad, including Clare when he was involved there

r.e. the other thread, if you think the tongue in cheek response "When in your opinion will this moratorium will be lifted and Kilkenny people can complain about referees again like supporters from other counties?" to the statement "Kilkenny benefited from that so many times they can't complain when it happens to them" is paranoia, well then it's no wonder you're getting lost

dubcat51

my team for sarurday.
1.Brennan
2.murphy
3.lawlor
4.deegan
5.p walsh
6.buckley
7.holden
8..maher
9.leahy
10.tj
11.wally if fit
12.blanchfield
13.ger
14.colin
15 donnelly.

savannahkat

dubcat51 wrote: »

my team for sarurday.
1.Brennan
2.murphy
3.lawlor
4.deegan
5.p walsh
6.buckley
7.holden
8..maher
9.leahy
10.tj
11.wally if fit
12.blanchfield
13.ger
14.colin
15 donnelly.

Holden for Murphy
T Walsh for Deegan
Deegan for Holden
Ryan for Ger

mountgomery burns

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Yeah you do seem lost, I was agreeing with you that all counties do it. My point was that Donal Og used the Sunday Game to highlight how Kilkenny's use of the spare arm was ruining the game but choose to ignore it when other counties use of it was just as bad, including Clare when he was involved there

r.e. the other thread, if you think the tongue in cheek response "When in your opinion will this moratorium will be lifted and Kilkenny people can complain about referees again like supporters from other counties?" to the statement "Kilkenny benefited from that so many times they can't complain when it happens to them" is paranoia, well then it's no wonder you're getting lost

Sorry thought you were comparing me to Donal Og which was confusing me. Look when you take both statements together, it does seem like a bit of an us against the world mentality.

What Donal Og or Loughnane (for example, being outspoken) might say does not necessarily represent the entire media's view.

terryrogers

bruschi wrote: »

that was a response to a poster who claimed that "clowns" over Wexford underage teams coach it to them under Davy Fitz instructions and as if the "tactic" of spare arm fouling is only to do with the big bad Davy machine and all who play for him.

By the by, I've not heard of anyone claiming any of the coaches of the Wexford underage set up are clowns, nor have I ever heard of the ludicrous claims that the players have to be coached out of this tactic upon their return to clubs.

To be honest, calling another counties underage coaches clowns is fairly derogatory, but as its in your own county thread, so be it.

It would be a bit much for underage coaches to coach cynical play under Davy's instructions, I doubt anyone seriously believes that.

However the evidence shows that teams coached by Davy himself have adopted a much more cynical playing style once he's taken over. Looking at average scores conceded through frees, before and after Davy, shows:

Waterford, 2007, year before Davy = 3 pts average
2008, Davy's first year = 6.4 (first game of championship excluded as Justin Mc was in charge)

Clare, 2011, year before Davy = 2.5 (this was only a small sample of 2 games, so if we include 2010 the new average = 3)
2012, Davy's first year = 7.1

Wexford, 2016, year before Davy = 6
2017, Davy's first year = 8.2

It's no secret that frees conceded have been a major problem for Clare since Davy took over, and it could be suggested that their poor discipline needs to be 'coached out of them' if they are to improve.

Davy has introduced a poorer discipline to Wexford also, as evidenced above. And I fully expect them to break up the play once again this Saturday and limit goal chances. The hostile crowd in Wexford park should influence the ref somewhat, as what happened in Wexford park 2 years ago imo. Colin Fennelly wreaked havoc and was awarded 2 penalties on that occasion iirc but could easily have gotten 4. Fergal Horgan was the ref then too, so it'll be interesting to see if he'll be affected by the crowd again this time. In saying all that though it must be said that Wexford choked Kilkenny and dominated that game so just about deserved the win on the day.

Shirleysrumbler

terryrogers wrote: »

It would be a bit much for underage coaches to coach cynical play under Davy's instructions, I doubt anyone seriously believes that.

However the evidence shows that teams coached by Davy himself have adopted a much more cynical playing style once he's taken over. Looking at average scores conceded through frees, before and after Davy, shows:

Waterford, 2007, year before Davy = 3 pts average
2008, Davy's first year = 6.4 (first game of championship excluded as Justin Mc was in charge)

Clare, 2011, year before Davy = 2.5 (this was only a small sample of 2 games, so if we include 2010 the new average = 3)
2012, Davy's first year = 7.1

Wexford, 2016, year before Davy = 6
2017, Davy's first year = 8.2

It's no secret that frees conceded have been a major problem for Clare since Davy took over, and it could be suggested that their poor discipline needs to be 'coached out of them' if they are to improve.

Davy has introduced a poorer discipline to Wexford also, as evidenced above. And I fully expect them to break up the play once again this Saturday and limit goal chances. The hostile crowd in Wexford park should influence the ref somewhat, as what happened in Wexford park 2 years ago imo. Colin Fennelly wreaked havoc and was awarded 2 penalties on that occasion iirc but could easily have gotten 4. Fergal Horgan was the ref then too, so it'll be interesting to see if he'll be affected by the crowd again this time. In saying all that though it must be said that Wexford choked Kilkenny and dominated that game so just about deserved the win on the day.

I should have qualified this. There are people in the underage setups who a" Ape" the kind od rubbish going on in Senior Team.
A lot of Davy's " Victim Complex" behaviour is " Small Man Syndrome" at work.

bruschi

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

I should have qualified this. There are people in the underage setups who a" Ape" the kind od rubbish going on in Senior Team.
A lot of Davy's " Victim Complex" behaviour is " Small Man Syndrome" at work.

more lies. None of the Wexford underage teams play a style or tactic that Davy has in the senior, regardless of fouling or sweepers or whatever. None of them send players back that have to be coached the style out of them.

You also called volunteer coaches of Wexford underage teams "clowns". So I wont be bothering with any more responses to you.

Pogue eile

terryrogers wrote: »

It would be a bit much for underage coaches to coach cynical play under Davy's instructions, I doubt anyone seriously believes that.

However the evidence shows that teams coached by Davy himself have adopted a much more cynical playing style once he's taken over. Looking at average scores conceded through frees, before and after Davy, shows:

Waterford, 2007, year before Davy = 3 pts average
2008, Davy's first year = 6.4 (first game of championship excluded as Justin Mc was in charge)

Clare, 2011, year before Davy = 2.5 (this was only a small sample of 2 games, so if we include 2010 the new average = 3)
2012, Davy's first year = 7.1

Wexford, 2016, year before Davy = 6
2017, Davy's first year = 8.2

It's no secret that frees conceded have been a major problem for Clare since Davy took over, and it could be suggested that their poor discipline needs to be 'coached out of them' if they are to improve.

Davy has introduced a poorer discipline to Wexford also, as evidenced above. And I fully expect them to break up the play once again this Saturday and limit goal chances. The hostile crowd in Wexford park should influence the ref somewhat, as what happened in Wexford park 2 years ago imo. Colin Fennelly wreaked havoc and was awarded 2 penalties on that occasion iirc but could easily have gotten 4. Fergal Horgan was the ref then too, so it'll be interesting to see if he'll be affected by the crowd again this time. In saying all that though it must be said that Wexford choked Kilkenny and dominated that game so just about deserved the win on the day.

Too funny, stop man you are killing me :D

brookville

Right lads what are our thoughts this weekend's match.its probably a 50-50 match.Wexford have a good recent record and will have large home vocal support..I'd expect the team named tomor night will be the same as last week and a few changes Saturday evening it'll probably be the same on the wexford team.
I think we can win this match if we go with the right game plan and tactics I hope this is a match we have our homework done. our half back line got a roasting last weekend We need this to be a strong line Buckley is a big loss as he gives great leadership.Wexford half backs like to get foward and Foley can score from long distance so we need to keep the free count down and scruff will be a loss for our long distance frees.
The ball going into our fowards last weekend while diagonal at times it was often high and suits the defender better.We need to be giving our lads like Sheehan or Billy low ball.
On the match itself there'll also be big pressure on wexford to perform so it'll be interesting to see how they respond.Rory o Connor hasn't being going as well as last year granted he was injured earlier but they need big games from Conor mac and Liam og.
To be honest I don't think Dublin will beat Galway and I think ourselves and wexford will finish the top 3.Id like to get to a Leinster final and get more experience into our longer lads but it wouldn't be the end of the world to finish in 3rd and get all the injured lads back and get a crack off 3rd in Munster in a quater final.

BENDYBINN

brookville wrote: »

Right lads what are our thoughts this weekend's match.its probably a 50-50 match.Wexford have a good recent record and will have large home vocal support..I'd expect the team named tomor night will be the same as last week and a few changes Saturday evening it'll probably be the same on the wexford team.
I think we can win this match if we go with the right game plan and tactics I hope this is a match we have our homework done. our half back line got a roasting last weekend We need this to be a strong line Buckley is a big loss as he gives great leadership.Wexford half backs like to get foward and Foley can score from long distance so we need to keep the free count down and scruff will be a loss for our long distance frees.
The ball going into our fowards last weekend while diagonal at times it was often high and suits the defender better.We need to be giving our lads like Sheehan or Billy low ball.
On the match itself there'll also be big pressure on wexford to perform so it'll be interesting to see how they respond.Rory o Connor hasn't being going as well as last year granted he was injured earlier but they need big games from Conor mac and Liam og.
To be honest I don't think Dublin will beat Galway and I think ourselves and wexford will finish the top 3.Id like to get to a Leinster final and get more experience into our longer lads but it wouldn't be the end of the world to finish in 3rd and get all the injured lads back and get a crack off 3rd in Munster in a quater final.

Youve got longer lads........boasting now!

Shirleysrumbler

bruschi wrote: »

that was a response to a poster who claimed that "clowns" over Wexford underage teams coach it to them under Davy Fitz instructions and as if the "tactic" of spare arm fouling is only to do with the big bad Davy machine and all who play for him.

By the by, I've not heard of anyone claiming any of the coaches of the Wexford underage set up are clowns, nor have I ever heard of the ludicrous claims that the players have to be coached out of this tactic upon their return to clubs.

To be honest, calling another counties underage coaches clowns is fairly derogatory, but as its in your own county thread, so be it.

Of course calling a coach a clown is derogatory !!
Hold -release is far more cynical than spare arm and take it from me it is coached in Wexford. It's basically down to slightly tugging the upper arm of an opponent from behind to put them off when attempting to catch a ball at chest level or to put their " trapping a ball" with hurl off in the same manner.

brookville

Younger I meant sorry

Billy Ocean

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

Of course calling a coach a clown is derogatory !!
Hold -release is far more cynical than spare arm and take it from me it is coached in Wexford. It's basically down to slightly tugging the upper arm of an opponent from behind to put them off when attempting to catch a ball at chest level or to put their " trapping a ball" with hurl off in the same manner.

your an irrelevance....

Joe Daly

brookville wrote: »

Right lads what are our thoughts this weekend's match.its probably a 50-50 match.Wexford have a good recent record and will have large home vocal support..I'd expect the team named tomor night will be the same as last week and a few changes Saturday evening it'll probably be the same on the wexford team.
I think we can win this match if we go with the right game plan and tactics I hope this is a match we have our homework done. our half back line got a roasting last weekend We need this to be a strong line Buckley is a big loss as he gives great leadership.Wexford half backs like to get foward and Foley can score from long distance so we need to keep the free count down and scruff will be a loss for our long distance frees.
The ball going into our fowards last weekend while diagonal at times it was often high and suits the defender better.We need to be giving our lads like Sheehan or Billy low ball.
On the match itself there'll also be big pressure on wexford to perform so it'll be interesting to see how they respond.Rory o Connor hasn't being going as well as last year granted he was injured earlier but they need big games from Conor mac and Liam og.
To be honest I don't think Dublin will beat Galway and I think ourselves and wexford will finish the top 3.Id like to get to a Leinster final and get more experience into our longer lads but it wouldn't be the end of the world to finish in 3rd and get all the injured lads back and get a crack off 3rd in Munster in a quater final.

I would not underestimate Dublin in Parnell park its a hard place to come out of with a result as Wexford found out a couple of weeks ago. I think lads a sort of underestimated Galway last Sunday it was a make or break game for them and we let it slip. Saturday is going to be tough I don't know whether Bill Sheehan will be able for it hopefully I am wrong he has not done bad the last couple of games give Fennelly and the other forwards plenty of room to run at them. Its going to be tight tuff like all kilkenny v Wexford matches down through the years they take on a life of there own.

brookville

Joe Daly wrote: »

I would not underestimate Dublin in Parnell park its a hard place to come out of with a result as Wexford found out a couple of weeks ago. I think lads a sort of underestimated Galway last Sunday it was a make or break game for them and we let it slip. Saturday is going to be tough I don't know whether Bill Sheehan will be able for it hopefully I am wrong he has not done bad the last couple of games give Fennelly and the other forwards plenty of room to run at them. Its going to be tight tuff like all kilkenny v Wexford matches down through the years they take on a life of there own.

I hope wally recovers for Saturday we see how important he is when he is gone but he often struggles against wexford.Colin and aylward have done well against wexford over the years.Id use Leahy off the bench and start hogan.I wonder will Murphy or fogarty come under pressure?I thought fogarty was good against Dublin but he has had 2 poor games.Maybe he is better suited to midfield.We could see someone like mossy against wexford to track the wing backs and he done well in the Walsh cup match against wexford at centre foward and will work hard but he won't trouble the score board.You see the spread of scorers Galway had last Sunday we haven't really found a dangerous scoring corner foward.Anyone in at the first match last Sunday John Walsh was very impressive it's a pity a lad like him or Shane Walsh couldn't be brought in and be worked on cause they are scoring fowards.

dubcat51

brookville wrote: »

I hope wally recovers for Saturday we see how important he is when he is gone but he often struggles against wexford.Colin and aylward have done well against wexford over the years.Id use Leahy off the bench and start hogan.I wonder will Murphy or fogarty come under pressure?I thought fogarty was good against Dublin but he has had 2 poor games.Maybe he is better suited to midfield.We could see someone like mossy against wexford to track the wing backs and heagree done well in the Walsh cup match against wexford at centre foward and will work hard but he won't trouble the score board.You see the spread of scorers Galway had last Sunday we haven't really found a dangerous scoring corner foward.Anyone in at the first match last Sunday John Walsh was very impressive it's a pity a lad like him or Shane Walsh couldn't be brought in and be worked on cause they are scoring fowards.

agree about john walsh,if we xan play spmeone like alan murphy midfield surely we can bring in john walsh.bottom.line is he scores.

kk.man

brookville wrote: »

I hope wally recovers for Saturday we see how important he is when he is gone but he often struggles against wexford.Colin and aylward have done well against wexford over the years.Id use Leahy off the bench and start hogan.I wonder will Murphy or fogarty come under pressure?I thought fogarty was good against Dublin but he has had 2 poor games.Maybe he is better suited to midfield.We could see someone like mossy against wexford to track the wing backs and he done well in the Walsh cup match against wexford at centre foward and will work hard but he won't trouble the score board.You see the spread of scorers Galway had last Sunday we haven't really found a dangerous scoring corner foward.Anyone in at the first match last Sunday John Walsh was very impressive it's a pity a lad like him or Shane Walsh couldn't be brought in and be worked on cause they are scoring fowards.

I totally agree with you on Wally v Wexford. For whatever reason he never shines. We do need big stong ball wining half forwards for this game. I think the Galway half back line was the key on Sunday.

C__MC

Would richie Hogan not be dangerous inside. Maybe he hasn't got that burst of pace or speed. But he has fabulous aerial ability and an eye for goal.

brookville

C__MC wrote: »

Would richie Hogan not be dangerous inside. Maybe he hasn't got that burst of pace or speed. But he has fabulous aerial ability and an eye for goal.

Hard to know he has a great brain i know he was very rusty last Sunday but we would hope with games he might improve.he had a few chances in the first half last year against wexford and drove 3 wides I think and was replaced at ht.He came on against limericks and was very dangerous.Maybe not a 70 min man anymore but he came on before ht last wknd and after a few wrong decision making he done a good job in front of cleere.

Village87

brookville wrote: »

I hope wally recovers for Saturday we see how important he is when he is gone but he often struggles against wexford.Colin and aylward have done well against wexford over the years.Id use Leahy off the bench and start hogan.I wonder will Murphy or fogarty come under pressure?I thought fogarty was good against Dublin but he has had 2 poor games.Maybe he is better suited to midfield.We could see someone like mossy against wexford to track the wing backs and he done well in the Walsh cup match against wexford at centre foward and will work hard but he won't trouble the score board.You see the spread of scorers Galway had last Sunday we haven't really found a dangerous scoring corner foward.Anyone in at the first match last Sunday John Walsh was very impressive it's a pity a lad like him or Shane Walsh couldn't be brought in and be worked on cause they are scoring fowards.

Mossy wont be playing anyway, not in the 26 for Saturday. Some of the decisions from management regarding personnel is baffling. Lads on the panel, lads not on the panel, players that are starting every game, i just cant understand it. Pat Lyng and Rob Lennon started the biggest game last year and it completely backfired down in Thurles against Limerick, started them 2 from nowhere, same against Wexford and Waterford the year before. The management could do anything Saturday, probably wont work but TJ will drag them over the line or close to it on his own again.

greenspurs

Village87 wrote: »

Mossy wont be playing anyway, not in the 26 for Saturday. Some of the decisions from management regarding personnel is baffling. Lads on the panel lads not on the panel, players that are starting every game, i just cant understand it. Pat Lyng and Rob Lennon started the biggest game last year and it completely backfired down in Thurles against Limerick, started them 2 from nowhere, same against Wexford and Waterford the year before. The management could do anything Saturday, probably wont work but TJ will drag them over the line or close to it on his own again.

You like blaming the 'management' a lot ?

dobbs2210

greenspurs wrote: »

You like blaming the 'management' a lot ?

Well in fairness he has a point. Pat Lyng and Mossy Keoghan were both starting wing forwards last year in an All-Ireland Quarter final v Limerick in Thurles and now both are not even on the panel.

Doesn't stack up.

I agree completely some of the decisions are crazy.

Richie Reid is no longer on the match day panel either after having a great season last year with Ballyhale!

droppingball

Mossy was in the 26, so was Richie Reid but as sub goalie but if murphy was fit he may have been an outfield sub

Village87

droppingball wrote: »

Mossy was in the 26, so was Richie Reid but as sub goalie but if murphy was fit he may have been an outfield sub

Neither are on the match day squad for Saturday night

droppingball

That must mean Eoin Murphy is back so

laneykin

Village87 wrote: »

Neither are on the match day squad for Saturday night

Team isn't released yet though is it?

Village87

laneykin wrote: »

Team isn't released yet though is it?

No just the 26 names