Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

mountgomery burns

citykat wrote: »

Well all I know is t I’m in town every day and after last Sunday I haven’t seen a drop off in the number of lads carrying girls around the town.

And who said romance was dead

I agree with you though, I actually think Cody is doing a good job with what he has. They've lost a remarkable amount of top class hurlers and are still competing for Leinsters, and in that time have never been truly humiliated the way all other counties have in a championship match.

That fight that's ingrained in them is something he instills. There'll never be another like him, ye should enjoy him while he's still there.

iebamm2580

If tipp had cody from 09-16 we certainly would have won more all irelands. Its annoying/admirable how he can instill that never give up attitude in his teams. Back handed compliment i would call this.

corner back 2

I think a lot of frustration here is coming from the fact that we are now losing the close matches that we used to win. While this shows we are not that far away the inability to get over the line of late shows that some changes may be needed. Things like accuracy and decision making let us down last Sunday and you would wonder if a different approach could help these. Dont know if KK use sports psychology or high performance coaches but if you could combine this with Cody's experience and knowledge we should improve.

dastardly00

citykat wrote: »

I think people need to get a grip here.
We lost by a single score to a Wexford team that only hit two wides in over 70 mins of hurling.

The reaction from the last few days is not just because of the Wexford match, but it's based on the accumulation of poor performances from the last few years.

From the start of 2017 championship until now, KK have played 15 championship matches and have won 5, lost 8, and drew 2. Those 5 wins were against Wexford, Carlow, Offaly and Dublin (x2). At the end of the day they are the only statistics that matter, and they don't make good reading

citykat

dastardly00 wrote: »

From the start of 2017 championship until now, KK have played 15 championship matches and have won 5, lost 8, and drew 2. Those 5 wins were against Wexford, Carlow, Offaly and Dublin (x2). At the end of the day they are the only statistics that matter, and they don't make good reading

There’s one incredibly annoying bastard of a poster who’d say that was a selective use of stats. If you extend the timeframe out to the start of the decade or even halfway/all the way back into the 00s, the result is a lot different. Sure we’ve been **** the last couple of years. This is the pendulum swinging back. We’re just not as good as we were earlier in the decade but equally we’re not as far off as some might believe.
I don’t know how many lads looked at that game last night but if they did, they’d have seen a Kilkenny team winning the way they always did. There was no ‘system’. No ****ing around with short passes at the back. The ball was driven long into the corners out of defence. That was the ‘tactic’ last night oh and a bit of hard work.

WhatsGoingOn2

citykat wrote: »

There’s one incredibly annoying bastard of a poster who’d say that was a selective use of stats. If you extend the timeframe out to the start of the decade or even halfway/all the way back into the 00s, the result is a lot different. Sure we’ve been **** the last couple of years. This is the pendulum swinging back. We’re just not as good as we were earlier in the decade but equally we’re not as far off as some might believe.
I don’t know how many lads looked at that game last night but if they did, they’d have seen a Kilkenny team winning the way they always did. There was no ‘system’. No ****ing around with short passes at the back. The ball was driven long into the corners out of defence. That was the ‘tactic’ last night oh and a bit of hard work.

We wouldn't beat Limerick with that 'tactic'.

tbiggertycome

A good win from the U20's last night and after a slow start where they hardly touched the ball for the first 5 minutes they got on top and really dominated the game. As some have said here they really could have won by more. There are sterner tests ahead but they've had two good games together now and will hopefully only get better. Wexford will be well up for it but so should our lads. They played a nice brand of hurling not afraid to go short but also delivered some nice long ball to the forwards and there was some excellent fielding from our lads at both ends of the field. They harrassed and harried Galway lads all night. They went hard into tackles and we won a majority of the rucks.

D Mason - Overall should be happy will probably be little dissapointed about the goal but brought off an excellent save when he came out off his line and got the hurl in to stop a certain second goal.
J Brennan - picked up a harsh early yellow card but still played well in the first half, as he was on what looked like Galways best forward most of the times we saw him on the TV, was wisely taken off after conceding a free at the start of the second half
C Flynn - Is a big tall lad and did well, while he looks slow I think this is a misconception due to his size, I actually think he's pretty quick, I saw him in a club game for GBC earlier and none of our fast players got away from him to easy.
J Butler - was solid throughout and had an nice few cameos
C Heary - had a really good game some great fielding and was always there to help out in defence and brought a nice bit forward too. Got two points but also hit a few wides which may have been better played into a very dangerous forward line. Almost all the defenders were guilty of this at some point, except Flynn, I don't remember him having a go at a shot.
M Carey - I thought he played fairly well for most of it, again some great fielding and hit some great ball into the forwards. His big and strong and great going forward was a bit ponderous when on the ball, particularly at the start of the game but grew into it.
D Blanchfield - again was good and strong some great fielding and hit some nice ball into the forwards
E Shefflin - was very good in spots and then anonymus for large sections but should be happy enough with his performance
E O'Shea - I'll have to be honest I can't remember a huge amount about Eoins contribution
A Mullen - started well and drifted in and out of the game as to be expected after 3 matches in such a short period of time. He was unlucky for his goal chance and always looked dangerous but only came away with one point.
N Brassil - was excellent in the first half and was solid from frees throughout. His flick over the defender, gathered and finishing the point was lovely to see. Got stuck in when we were struggling. Finished with 0-7 (0-5 frees)
A Brennan - Did well without setting the world on fire. Finished with 0-1
S Ryan - thought he did really well in the corner and is a tough lad to mark he's fast, smart and accurate from acute angles. Finished with 0-3
Eoin Cody - was quite to start with but came thundering into the game and played really well through to the end. Finished with 1-3 his goal was really well taken and lovely little dumby too on the way through.
Stephen Donnelly - was a live wire and went out hunting for the ball and had plenty of chance and eventually got 2 points. He got stuck in and caused lots of trouble for the defence

The biggest issue I'd have is the defence went for their own score a bit too often when we had plenty of forwards inside causing them loads of issues. I'm sure DJ will have them ready for the next day and a bigger test.

oconnol1

Right all, time to stop all this negativity, let’s get behind all our teams. U20 did very well last light.

We simply didn’t hurl in Croke park last Sunday, most likely we will be facing Cork in the 1/4 final, and in my opinion we can beat them if we actually click and play like we can.

If we get to the semi final I don’t believe Kilkenny will fear Limerick. Come on the Cats.

JohnCougar

We have not played well in the championship since the 13 August 2016. We have lost our way since that night.

We may say a few Novenas in the Black Abbey over the next few weeks.

tbiggertycome

Seeing as most of the post below and subsequent posts are aimed at me here I go.

savannahkat wrote: »

It took Kilkenny from 1963 until 1993 a total of 31 years inclusive to add an additional 11 All Ireland titles to those previously won. In the same period Kilkenny contested a further 8 giving a success rate of 58% . Under Brian Cody (not Including this year as that has yet to be decided) Kilkenny have won 11 all Irelands and lost four in just 19 years giving a success rate of 73%. When Brian Cody took over Kilkenny we were behind both Tipperary and Cork in the roll of honor and well behind Cork now we have a fairly sizable lead.

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I take no joy in saying that, in fact I hate saying it because he has been amazing for us and I firmly believe we would not have had the success we've had over the last 20 years only for him. He united the clubs and county board so that everyone focused and pulled in the one direction. He moulded our players into one of the best teams ever to play the game.

savannahkat wrote: »

Those on here full of statistics (Bull stats) trying to full down Cody would do well to remember these are the only statistics that count. No other stats matter you can blow smoke down every chimney in every house in every county in Ireland it wont change one thing, these are the Only Stats that matter

So in essence you believe that Cody should never be challenged because of what he has won? Cody himself would not accept that kind of thinking.

savannahkat wrote: »

Kilkenny were in the 2016 Final missed out on the 17 and 18. The 16 Final was won by Tipperary who play a style of hurling 15 against 15 very similar to Kilkenny as did Galway in 17. Both Tipp and Galway play a style of hurling a hell of a lot closer to the Kilkenny style (or Cody style) than they are to the Limerick Cork and Wexford styles. Wexford, Cork, Clare and Limerick will have to win All Ireland titles consistantly for me to slavishly following the new bible and a lot more than the 5 they have managed to win between the four of them 1999.

I don't care what other counties are doing and where they are on the roll of honour. What I care about is getting the most out of our current crop of players.

savannahkat wrote: »

For people here to be calling for Brian Codys head is shameful, for people here to say he does not understand the modern game reflects more on their own lack of knowledge than on his

I didn't say he doesn't understand the modern game, there is nothing complex about it and he's a smart man. What I'm upset about is his unwillingness to adapt and change his approach to counteract it. He's plenty smart enough to do it but doesn't want to because he believes his way is best. I personally think thats crazy when the evidence shows we can't win that way at the moment. It's his unwillingness to change and adapt to his current crop of players is the reason I think he should leave. There are too many games that we're competitive in and losing by a score or two. If we had some sort of plan to aide our younger players I believe we would have won lots of those close games. Thats what I'm looking for. If Cody will do it there is no man better to lead the team as others have stated the work rate and desire he can get out of players is unrivalled but it's not enough at the moment with such young players. I don't understand his reluctance to coach these young lads the coach he trained under, Fr Tommy Maher was famed for working on scenarios to improve players and ways of working scores and tightening the defence.

savannahkat wrote: »

but the worst comment by a mile here was the comment about him looking like a deer caught in headlights during the 16 final with minutes to go. I expected a lot more from the individual who posted that or as another posted Ger Alyward went for goal because he was afraid to pass the ball when the reality is Ger did not have the skill, the vision but mostly the desire to pass is bring the tirades against Cody down to the ludicrous level..
A man who led Kilkenny to 15 all Irelands winning 11 of them is no ones fool and does not take fright to easily.

Hands up I made both the comments about the 16 AI and Ger Aylward:)
I've had some good connections for information both players current and past and county board and backroom team. I'm only making that comment because I heard it from a horses mouth. I hear a lot more which I never have or will post on here, but I can tell you it does happen. Cody is only human and he can get overawed in the heat of a match, it doesn't happen often to him but when it does he seems to freeze. You don't have to like or believe it but I believe those who told me.
Ger has plenty of skill and to suggest that he doesn't have the skill to handpass the ball 5 yards to Colin is completely disingenuous. I used that as an example of a player playing with fear for his place on the team so he went for an option which wasn't on for him. If you have a few lads playing with a bit of fear for their place that can be a good thing it keeps them on their toes but when 11 out of 15 are playing that way the whole thing falls apart. He has not picked a settled or close to settled team for 3 days straight in a long time I would suggest. When I say settled I mean 11 to 12 lads playing each day (injury permiting) for 3 consecutive matches.

savannahkat wrote: »

We have been spoiled by success thanks to Brian Cody and like most spoiled children when they no longer get what they think they deserve they howl and ball and throw tantrums and we have gathered a right motley crew of them here.
if ones cares to note it is the very same people who could not bring them selves to congratulate the under 20 team tonight with out adding BUT.

Well I have had faith in Cody for the last 3 years believing he would make the changes needed to help us win games. On the evidence of what I've seen and heard he has not adapted and seems uninterested in changing and thats fair enough. He believes his way is correct and he's entitled to that opinion. I think he's wrong and I'm entitled to my opinion. I'm not spoiled I'm not bawling, I'm just saying it as I see it. His way worked when we had the team we had, the results of the last three years show his way no longer works or doesn't with the current crop of players. That is not to say these players couldn't form a team capable of winning most of the games we've lost because I think we have the players to beat most teams out there.

There is also this acceptance creeping in here that we're not good enough and the players aren't there, the clubs scene is not as good as it was etc. For me that is worrying and that was never a Kilkenny way. We never accepted that and I don't see why we should now, especially when I believe we have a crop of players that could challenge for an AI.

I have posted on the U20's but I have a young family to look after so I don't have time to be running here to post just to keep you happy.

Anyway you'll still think I'm a traitorous b****** but I just thought I'd let you know where I was coming from.

corner back 2

Does Cody deserve respect? Yes. Is he beyond criticism? No. I do feel that maybe some freshening up with this group of players would help as continuing with the same thing is producing the same results fairly consistently now. I don't think that this means Cody has to go but I do think he has to adapt. The fact that there are so many leaks on here of teams can't be a good thing and players getting dropped off the panel by text suggests all may not be well in the camp. I accept that the players aren't as good as previous teams but we are not that far away. The only match in the last two years where we had more than 5 or 6 hurling well at the same time was the league final against Tipp. If we could even get 10 hurling well together any way consistently I think there could be a title in this present team.

Mulbert

As an outsider looking in on ur forum here, i have always said that this was the one forum in the GAA forums that you could read, because there was rational, relevent discussion.

It seems ye are as bad as everyone else after a few losses and poor years.

There are an equal number of loons here.

The Limerick forum is full of joy and happiness these days!

corner back 2

Mulbert wrote: »

As an outsider looking in on ur forum here, i have always said that this was the one forum in the GAA forums that you could read, because there was rational, relevent discussion.

It seems ye are as bad as everyone else after a few losses and poor years.

There are an equal number of loons here.

The Limerick forum is full of joy and happiness these days!

The debate here is fairly rational and compared to the days of the Kilkenny forum on anfearrua and the stripey men it doesn't get too personal and is relatively troll free!! Fair play to Limerick but remember it the success continues the begrudgers won't be far behind!

brookville

talking to a few hurling lads today who said they'd like to see eoin cody start against cork.Just wondering how realistic is this despite him not being on the panel and after completing his leaving cert and only a week out from the match.Lads saying he done it with wally but if we had to win last week and have a few weeks to get ready for a semi final i wouldnt be suprised but as it stands despite him being in great form and a very good player id be shocked.

droppingball

Would not be at all surprised if Eoin Cody was called in for a training match this weekend. If he performed well you would never know he could be involved in the 26. Stranger things have happened.

If such a training match happens, hopefully the likes of buckley and richie will perform. Be great if we can muster a performance from somewhere. The experience of a semi would be beneficial even if limerick will eat us without salt. It could act as an indication of what is required for management and players. Then questions can be asked when we are knocked out.

Corks backs aren't amazing but they have a good set of forward who love a shootout. Hopefully we cut down the space better than last week.

dubcat51

Eoin cody is a talent but surely richie bill sheehan blanch ger are ahead of him.eoin brassil and heary were the 3 that took my eye last night.also sean ryan scored some great points.getting the selection right from what we have is the key for me.

brookville

droppingball wrote: »

Would not be at all surprised if Eoin Cody was called in for a training match this weekend. If he performed well you would never know he could be involved in the 26. Stranger things have happened.

If such a training match happens, hopefully the likes of buckley and richie will perform. Be great if we can muster a performance from somewhere. The experience of a semi would be beneficial even if limerick will eat us without salt. It could act as an indication of what is required for management and players. Then questions can be asked when we are knocked out.

Corks backs aren't amazing but they have a good set of forward who love a shootout. Hopefully we cut down the space better than last week.

It will be interesting to see if he is called in but he does look a great prospect and has done very well at club level.A big step up i know.
hopefully we'll see a few changes the next day buckley and richie would be a huge help help needless to say but darren mullen or delaney would bring a bit of freshness to the backs.Personally I think paul murphy could struggle against cork id like to see a change here.
I know lads say corks defence isnt the strongest but from 8 up they could destroy us.It looks like kingston and lehane will be used as subs bringing on a bit of experience where they fell down last year.
As someone else said i don't think it's all doom and gloom we had a bad week but we need to go back to basics put lads in their best position play lads who are right and are in form.Theres being huge chopping and changing and that certainly doesn't help us playing with any consistency.It is worrying we dont know our best team at this stage of the season so a big sit down and a right team selection is a must.
It's a huge match for both managers so i hope a lot of thought and homework goes into this one.

Mulbert

corner back 2 wrote: »

Mulbert wrote: »

As an outsider looking in on ur forum here, i have always said that this was the one forum in the GAA forums that you could read, because there was rational, relevent discussion.

It seems ye are as bad as everyone else after a few losses and poor years.

There are an equal number of loons here.

The Limerick forum is full of joy and happiness these days!

The debate here is fairly rational and compared to the days of the Kilkenny forum on anfearrua and the stripey men it doesn't get too personal and is relatively troll free!! Fair play to Limerick but remember it the success continues the begrudgers won't be far behind!

I dont know what it was like back in the day but anyone who makes any reasoned argument against Brian Cody here is immediately set upon.

I can neither understand people calling for his stepping down.

But the forum seems to be becoming somewhat polarised.
Just an observation is all!

Gentleman Off The Pitch

dubcat51 wrote: »

Wexford had a lad miced up behind the goal telling fanning when and where to go with his pucks.also telling him when to take his time.felt like going down and getting in his ear.will be interesting if someone gets on his case in the semi.as it will be sold out he wont have the room behind the goal.going down killing momentum has been going on for years but with the head issue easier to do now with health and safety.

castletownman wrote: »

I'm going to assume you were on the grassy knoll at Dallas in 1963. Because that is some conspiracy theory you have. I would have thought hitting double figures in wides was a bigger factor in losing

Why Was Wexford Goalkeeper Fanning Talking To A Man In The Stand? | Balls.ie
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/wexford-puck-outs-hurling-413567

RamonD3

That is an interesting point you made thebiggertheycome, about fear and the impact if it affects a large number of a team. I would imagine different characters are going to take it different ways. Tommy Walsh spoke before about the fear of defeat being one of the main things to drive him.

It would go against the grain for some I'm sure but I wonder about the benefits of using a sports psychologist in the group. That's no slight against Cody who is a supreme motivator, but it is something that has been of benefit with many teams. I also think of Jackie Tyrell and others who have spoken so well of the effect of Brother Damien Brennan on their confidence.

Regarding a gameplan, there was a definite shift in style for last years league which did see the ball worked shorter through the lines. It would be interesting to see how that would work over a longer period of time with this group, it seemed to be abandoned hastily.

Grats

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Why Was Wexford Goalkeeper Fanning Talking To A Man In The Stand? | Balls.ie
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/wexford-puck-outs-hurling-413567

Your man behind the Wexford goal must have been moving the goal posts causing Kilkenny to have 9 more wides than Wexford!

Justice for the individual

Mulbert wrote: »

As an outsider looking in on ur forum here, i have always said that this was the one forum in the GAA forums that you could read, because there was rational, relevent discussion.

It seems ye are as bad as everyone else after a few losses and poor years.

There are an equal number of loons here.





Brian Cody is the victim of his own success in guiding/managing Kilkenny to the top of the tree as regards Senior Hurling successes.

People must recognise too that during that time Brian was not playing and therefore did not 'win' any All-Ireland's or medals - he was the manager.

Once he trains the team, give the players their instructions before every game, it is then up to the players he puts out on the field - they must man up and not making sloppy mistakes and decisions. Basically, the players must accept responsibility too. I'm sure that is the nub of much of the criticism towards Brian, as he is not slow to let the players have some of his ire when he sees lapses of concentration and basic skill errors.

Are they good enough - I think they are - there's a good panel there - but they must have belief in themselves and back themselves to take the opposition on, particularly the forwards.

I don't think Brian has regressed - it is the present players who appear over-awed by past exploits - but that day is gone and new players are emerging, and eventually they will be better - that is the progression nowadays regarding athletes - just give it time.

Justice for the individual

Grats wrote: »

Your man behind the Wexford goal must have been moving the goal posts causing Kilkenny to have 9 more wides than Wexford!

Yes, sometimes the best laid plans can go astray.

Kilkenny players lost that match themselves with sloppy shooting - is that Brian's fault?

Wexford with fewer shots for scores converted practically everything - days like that do not come every day.

A lesson for Kilkenny to take on board for the next day against Cork.

usualstripes

Best of luck to the minors today. A result v clare would probably put them through to a semi final. The u20s are in a semi final regardless of leinster final result so it's up to the seniors next Sunday to get past cork and have all three in a semi final which would be great. Regardless of what went on last Sunday we have the chance to rectify this.

takeyourpoint

usualstripes wrote: »

Best of luck to the minors today. A result v clare would probably put them through to a semi final. The u20s are in a semi final regardless of leinster final result so it's up to the seniors next Sunday to get past cork and have all three in a semi final which would be great. Regardless of what went on last Sunday we have the chance to rectify this.

Best of Luck to the Minors today.

brookville

I think we all agree theres only so much cody can do before the players cross the white line.Players with any kind of experience should know about delivering decent ball into the fowards.its still not uncommon to see 2 or 3 of our defenders going for the one ball and it breaking to the forward.
That game was won by small margins and wexford being very efficient.mcdonalds first point set the tempo but scruff should of known to try throw over them long frees but as someone else said fogarty one that ryan intercepted was like a score for them.
Theres no doubt we were shocking slow to move players last wknd and bring on subs but The main few things im critical of him the last few weeks is we dont know our team.No settled mid field but too many of our experienced players arent playing well enough but playing lads who arent right wont work in this modern game.Naming dummy teams and lots of changing probably not helping.
I hope he might of being holding a few lads for days like next sunday where the knockout hurling starts and hopefully he goes for broke with the team selection but i wouldnt be overly confident.

Billy Ocean

Pointless and random question folks , anybody know why TJ wore 31 last Sunday instead of 12?

On the reaction to the game here I've said several times there's been nothing between these teams sense the start of 2017, every championship game in that time between them in that time has been a 1 score game there was nothing in it last Sunday either, we got the few breaks ye got in the game in nowlan park last year. Taught it was strange ye left morrissey on rory o'connor, hindsight is 20 20 but I think ye should have moved walsh onto him and rejigged your free man. I've always felt sense seeing him as a minor he was a special talent and no better time to deliver than last Sunday. On the Fennelly potential penalty incident it wasn't reason been watching back it was a free out before the ball even landed Fennelly was grabbing ryans jersey, I don't buy this whole talk of Fennelly getting fouled constantly, he fouls as much as he is fouled against, he also gets away with alot of barging too.

Think ye and cork is 50 50 they have a serious attacking threat so your match ups will be crucial but there defence is there to be got at, your non- ballyhale contingent in the forward line will need to stand up and be counted.

usualstripes

Any link to minor match live?

Billy Ocean

usualstripes wrote: »

Any link to minor match live?

didn't see anything but buff egan is at the game for any snapchat users

brookville

Well done to the u17 today very good recovery after last sunday.hopefully end up in a semi final now and maybe stay improving devolping.