Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Grats

BOSTIK wrote: »

Are you implying that Lawlor didn't foul Gillane inside the square?

Because he most certainly did, and made it extremely obvious too, which is why the ref gave it. Gillane did hold Lawlor's hurley momentarily, which is a foul of course, but he was cute enough to be subtle enough about it, and not get spotted by the ref.

Regarding the penalty strike, I haven't seen a replay of it.

I'm saying that Gillane should have been blown for holding the hurl. In that case there would be a free out and no penalty. We are to assume it wasn't spotted by the ref but it was a foul on the fullback. The ref and his officials also missed the ball been struck inside the 20m line. And they missed the ball going off a Limerick player for that last line ball.

As it turned out, Kilkenny deservedly won in the end despite those major errors.

tbiggertycome

Grats wrote: »

tbiggertycome - you fooled me. There I was assuming you're a loyal supporter and you didn't even go on Saturday!!! Oh you of little faith!!

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well if you wanted to work instead of me you should have let me know, I would have went willingly:P. Tried everything to get the afternoon off but couldn't get out early enough.

The patrons of Kytlers would probably have been a lot happier too, without having to listen to me and roaring buddy shout at ever tackle, puck, bad decision and score:eek:

Grats

tbiggertycome wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well if you wanted to work instead of me you should have let me know, I would have went willingly:P. Tried everything to get the afternoon off but couldn't get out early enough.

The patrons of Kytlers would probably have been a lot happier too, without having to listen to me and roaring buddy shout at ever tackle, puck, bad decision and score:eek:

Ha! Kytlers ain't a bad place to "work“!!!!

tbiggertycome

Grats wrote: »

Ha! Kytlers ain't a bad place to "work“!!!!

finished work at 5:cool:

Grats

tbiggertycome wrote: »

finished work at 5:cool:

Perfect timing.

BOSTIK

Grats wrote: »

I'm saying that Gillane should have been blown for holding the hurl. In that case there would be a free out and no penalty. We are to assume it wasn't spotted by the ref but it was a foul on the fullback. The ref and his officials also missed the ball been struck inside the 20m line. And they missed the ball going off a Limerick player for that last line ball.

As it turned out, Kilkenny deservedly won in the end despite those major errors.

Lawlor did commit a blatant foul, there's no denying that. I doubt many people noticed Gillane's foul in real time, because he didn't make it look so obvious. Lawlor is still inexperienced at this level, I doubt you'll see him getting caught like that again.

And Cillian Buckley was very lucky to escape a straight red for leading with the elbow, so it's not as if the referee didn't give KK the rub of the green either.

Kilkenny were more economical than Limerick, and that's the principal reason why they won.

Grats

BOSTIK wrote: »

Lawlor did commit a blatant foul, there's no denying that. I doubt many people noticed Gillane's foul in real time, because he didn't make it look so obvious. Lawlor is still inexperienced at this level, I doubt you'll see him getting caught like that again.

And Cillian Buckley was very lucky to escape a straight red for leading with the elbow, so it's not as if the referee didn't give KK the rub of the green either.

Kilkenny were more economical than Limerick, and that's the principal reason why they won.

I have no wish to go tit for tat about various incidents. Since you mentioned Buckley, two Limerick players were taken off, sensibly, before they were sent off. They were already on yellow cards and seemed hell bent on getting more cards.

Glad you moved on from the lineball incident, as have many others since they realised it should never have been awarded.

The ref missed the foul on Lawlor, wasn't clear cut!!! Gillane striking the ball inside the 20m was very clear cut. The Sunday Game didn't pick it up, therfore many others didn't either, although VERY obvious on the day.

WhatsGoingOn2

This one is dedicated to Village87..
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/conor-fogarty-kilkenny-414896

BOSTIK

Grats wrote: »

I have no wish to go tit for tat about various incidents. Since you mentioned Buckley, two Limerick players were taken off, sensibly, before they were sent off. They were already on yellow cards and seemed hell bent on getting more cards.

Glad you moved on from the lineball incident, as have many others since they realised it should never have been awarded.

The ref missed the foul on Lawlor, wasn't clear cut!!! Gillane striking the ball inside the 20m was very clear cut. The Sunday Game didn't pick it up, therfore many others didn't either, although VERY obvious on the day.

Of course you don't, because then you'd have to admit that Kilkenny did indeed get the benefit of refereeing errors on Saturday as well.

I made no reference to the lineball at all, maybe somebody else did.

Anyway, we'll leave it so.

Grats

BOSTIK wrote: »

Of course you don't, because then you'd have to admit that Kilkenny did indeed get the benefit of refereeing errors on Saturday as well.

I made no reference to the lineball at all, maybe somebody else did.

Anyway, we'll leave it so.

I'm somewhat surprised you can't recall what you post as you don't post that much on hurling.

Quote from a previous post by you - Thoroughly merited victory for Kilkenny on Saturday. I thought it might go to extra-time and they'd have been in bother then, but Buckley's 2nd stroke of luck saved the day.

When you get a chance to look at Gillane's penalty come back with your thoughts.

corner back 2

Great weekend of hurling and enjoyed Kilkennys win immensely. I watched Sunday Game and I have read as many articles as possible about the match. I even listened to a couple of podcasts to hear different analysis. What is really bugging me is all the focus on the line ball and non 65 and the fact that not one pundit or journalist has mentioned the fact that most likely it should have been a line ball to Kilkenny in the first place. I have even looked back at the video of the incident and it is fairly obvious the ball comes off the Limerick man last. I can't understand how this has been completely overlooked in the analysis.

Grats

corner back 2 wrote: »

Great weekend of hurling and enjoyed Kilkennys win immensely. I watched Sunday Game and I have read as many articles as possible about the match. I even listened to a couple of podcasts to hear different analysis. What is really bugging me is all the focus on the line ball and non 65 and the fact that not one pundit or journalist has mentioned the fact that most likely it should have been a line ball to Kilkenny in the first place. I have even looked back at the video of the incident and it is fairly obvious the ball comes off the Limerick man last. I can't understand how this has been completely overlooked in the analysis.

My sentiments precisely. The Sunday Game set the agenda and the rest followed. They got it wrong and not prepared to admit it.

JJs Left Hand

Why do you care? We got one of the best days we've probably ever had in Croke Park and you're worried about what other people think about a line ball and 65. Who gives a ****? We have an All Ireland Final to look forward to. Move on.

savannahkat

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Why do you care? We got one of the best days we've probably ever had in Croke Park and you're worried about what other people think about a line ball and 65. Who gives a ****? We have an All Ireland Final to look forward to. Move on.

It is very important to highlight it otherwise it may very well happen again and we might not be so lucky just as it is very important to highlight the non penalty.It has been said and it is correct Kilkenny are being very unfairly refereed not withstanding the Buckley incident. To hear the pundits say Buckley deserved a red and next day say Heffernan did not deserve a second yellow after deliberately punching a player in the gut off the ball tells you all you need to know about the punditry.

SteJer

BOSTIK wrote: »

Lawlor did commit a blatant foul, there's no denying that. I doubt many people noticed Gillane's foul in real time, because he didn't make it look so obvious. Lawlor is still inexperienced at this level, I doubt you'll see him getting caught like that again.

And Cillian Buckley was very lucky to escape a straight red for leading with the elbow, so it's not as if the referee didn't give KK the rub of the green either.

Kilkenny were more economical than Limerick, and that's the principal reason why they won.

Now that you mention “real time”, there were 5 main refereeing/linesman errors regarding scoring which in “real time” looked different to slow motion/having the benefit of multiple replays. These are;

Gillane’s foul on Lawlor (holding the hurl) before the penalty is awarded.

Gillane stepping over the line when taking the penalty.

TJ Reid blown for throwing the ball (which resulted in a pointed free for Limerick).

The ball coming off the back of the Limerick player which should have resulted in a lineball to Kilkenny at the end.

The non 65 call at the end.

A referee has an extremely tough task but taking all of the above in to consideration Kilkenny could have won by 5. Therefore the last error of the match made by the referee (the non 65 call) had no real bearing on the result as Kilkenny would still have won if he had a chance to review all his decisions.

The media only want to talk about the non 65 call as it suits them to create controversy. Their agenda is plainly obvious as it’s very clear it was a lineball to Kilkenny in the first place.

On a side note Buckley (neck high tackle - leading with the elbow), Finn (preventing a goal scoring opportunity + persistent fouling) & Hegarty (head high tackle with the shoulder) could all have been shown a red card by a different referee but common sense prevailed and they all just received a yellow.

Wx

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

Does anyone else think that last line ball should have been a Kilkenny line ball and not a Limerick one? I was near enough to it in the Cusack Stand, I thought Murphy hit it off the back of the Limerick player and it went out.
I didn't have a completely clear view of it though.

From TV viewing I thought it had to come of the Limerick player unless Murphy missed his pick completely Thought he had been fouled just before that

Wx

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I thought Buckley did alright when introduced as well, contributed directly to a couple of scores and made his presence felt in there. He was lucky the yellow wasn't red though - another ref might have viewed it differently.
As already stated many times, the intensity, effort and doggedness shown on Saturday was incredible. We had front row seats and you could really see the lads were empty at the end but every time you thought they were out on their feet, they found a bit more in the tank to go again. Donnelly exemplified that - really ran himself into the ground for the team. Mullen for such a young lad shows some composure, seriously impressive once again. The big plus from the team last year is that Lawlor has made the FB position his own and has been outstanding all year while Mullen has taken some of the pressure off TJ and Fennelly for scores.

Just talking about all the big hits, I saw clips of the 67 final last night with John Doyle going for his 9th medal Most showed Doyle being hit and hit again, even by Eddie K, Doyle ended up on the ground at one stage and got a free That game and a League final were, in my opinion the two games that broke Tipps physical superiority to this day Of course Eddie came off with a broken arm and Tom Walsh lost his eye Eddie referred to the fact that Fr Tommy Maher had said skill alone was8going to be enough to beat Tipp.

Wx

tbiggertycome wrote: »

So that was something else, what a match, what a weekend! Personally I hate the scheduling, as I have to work Saturdays and it's the first Kilkenny match I've missed all year, anyway it's not about me. Couldn't be more proud of our players the work, heart and determination they put into that 77 mins was exceptional. I've had a little thought which I've shared with a few friends and they're starting to come around to my way of thinking. I think our team this year is in a very similar position to where we were in 2006. Back in 2006 we had a mix of players we had lads who had a few All Ireland we had a lot of young new talent coming through and I think we're in a similar situation except this time we probably have a few more lads with a few more medals than we did in 2006. There is one narrative in the media and it's on here and out there in the general public that we just don't have the players or that this is a very moderately talented Kilkenny team and we're luck we have the Cody to drive them on (we are lucky by the way to have Cody). I think Cody has to be applauded hugely for the change he has wrought on the team since the Leinster final. I was very worried he would stick to his guns and f*** the begrudgers but he knew there needed to be a sea change in our approach and in fact if you look at the Cork and Limerick games we're starting to look like the way we played in the 2006 final. I think we can push on and beat Tipp if we stick to our approach with a few tweaks obviously, to make sure the likes of Noel McGrath and Padraig Maher aren't allowed dictate Tipps game.

Going into the 2006 All Ireland we had the following players and number of All Irelands they had won before that day
James McGarry 3
Michael Kavanagh 3
Noel Hickey 3
Jackie Tyrell 1 (as a sub)
James Ryall 2 (1 as a sub)
John Tennyson 0
Tommy Walsh 2 (1 as a sub)
Derek Lyng 2
Cha Fitzpatrick 0
Martin Comerford 2
Henry Shefflin 3
Eoin Larkin 0
Eddie Brennan 3 (1 as a sub)
Richie Power 0
Aidan Fogarty 1 (as a sub)
Subs
PJ Ryan 2 (both on the bench)
JJ Delaney 2 (1 as a sub)
Richie Mullally 2 (1 as a sub)
Willie O'Dwyer 0
Brian Hogan 0
Michael Fennelly 0
John Dalton 0
Stephen Maher 0
PJ Delaney 0
Michael Rice 0
Eoin McCormick 0
Peter Cleere 0
Austin Murphy 0
Sean Cummins 0
Eoin Reid 0
Seaghan O'Neill 0
Total 22 starting 9 as subs All Irelands by 14 players out of 31

Where as going into this final we have based on the semifinal team
Eoin Murphy 4 (2 as a sub)
Paul Murphy 4
Huw Lalor 0
Joey Holden 2 (1 as a sub)
Conor Fogarty 4 (2 as a sub)
Padraig Walsh 2
Paddy Deegan 0
Conor Browne 0
Richie Leahy 0
Walter 3 (1 as a sub)
TJ Reid 7 (4 as a sub)
John Donnelly 0
Adrian Mullen 0
Colin Fennelly 4 (1 as a sub)
Richie Hogan 7 (2 as a sub)
Subs
Darren Brennan 0
Enda Morrissey 0
Jason Cleere 0
Conor Delaney 0
Cillian Buckley 3
James Maher 1 (as a sub)
Billy Ryan 0
Bill Sheehan 0
Liam Blanchfield 0
Ger Aylward 2 (1 as a sub)
Alan Murphy 0
Total 28 starters and 15 as subs by 12 players out of 26

So going into this final we're probably just slightly more experienced than in 2006 but what I really want to show is where the team that went on to be the greatest ever were, when they started on their journey. They weren't legends in 2006 some who have ended up so weren't even heard of outside Kilkenny back then. I think we have a great team now with some really good players who have the potential to be great some are already there but there is lots of talent in that group that don't have a medal yet. I don't think it'll be possible to go on and win four on the trot but I think there is another few All Irelands in this group. There is lots of top talent also coming through right down to U16 so there will hopefully be lads there to keep adding into the mix as some of our veterans hit the end of the road. We need to stop judging these young players against what guys had done at the end of their careers and look back to how they were doing at the start. It's impossible to judge any young lad just coming on the scene against a lad with 7, 8, 9 or even 10 All Irelands but we can look back to those legends at a similar stage and see how they measure up. Even that can be unfair as judging players of different eras is fraught with dangers.

Really looking forward to the final now and I'll have a go at analysing the semi final later on but just needed to get this off my chest as it's been bothering me over the weekend.

Would you think the other teams are better overall now & probably more: esp Wex and Limerick poss Clare joining KK Tipp & Cork; Dub a bit back and Waterford further back though with potential probably needing a different manager.

kk.man

Just heard a Tipp Lad say to another Tipp lad (in unbelievable accent);
It was great Limerick and Wexford were bet the weekend, pity f@$%^&* Kilkenny weren't bet too!

kk.man

Just heard a Tipp Lad say to another Tipp lad (in unbelievable accent);
It was great Limerick and Wexford were bet the weekend, pity f@$%^&* Kilkenny weren't bet too!

Priceless.

Wx

Wx wrote: »

Just talking about all the big hits, I saw clips of the 67 final last night with John Doyle going for his 9th medal Most showed Doyle being hit and hit again, even by Eddie K, Doyle ended up on the ground at one stage and got a free That game and a League final were, in my opinion the two games that broke Tipps physical superiority to this day Of course Eddie came off with a broken arm and Tom Walsh lost his eye Eddie referred to the fact that Fr Tommy Maher had said skill alone was8going to be enough to beat Tipp.

"skill alone wasn't going to be enough to beat Tipp"

corner back 2

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Why do you care? We got one of the best days we've probably ever had in Croke Park and you're worried about what other people think about a line ball and 65. Who gives a ****? We have an All Ireland Final to look forward to. Move on.

Don't worry I can't wait for the final. I spent the whole weekend watching and talking hurling between club and county matches. My comment is more about the standard of punditry than anything else. Sometimes it feels like the obvious things are ignored.
Anyway on to the final as instructed!! I feel it is 50/50 at this stage and barring any major injuries it is very hard to separate these two teams. I feel the key for KK is to stop the supply go the Tipp full forward line and the battle between our half forwards and their half backs will probably decide the game.

tibruit

It`s going to be all about the battle of the middle third. In `16 Tipp destroyed us there. They did to us what we did to Limerick in the first half last Saturday. As a result our half backs were pulled too far out and so the space was there for the avalanche of crossfield deliveries to Callinan inside. Holden and Murphy got far too much criticism for what happened in `16 when the real damage was inflicted on us in the middle third. And it`s not like we`ve learned from it. When Rory O Connor turned Enda Morrisey under the Cusack in the Leinster final he didn`t meet another defender until he reached the big square. I was sitting in the same section for the Cork game as I was for the `16 final i.e between our half and full back lines and it was like deja vu for the first 20 minutes of the Cork game until Fogarty dropped deeper. I even said it to the person beside me that this was exactly like the second half of the `16 final all over again. I don`t know whether Cody has it drummed into the backs that they are each responsible for their own men and so they follow them everywhere or what the reason is. At least against Limerick the half back line seemed to go only so far out and if their men went further they let them go. Donnelly came very deep at times in the first half and I thought he was outstanding for us. Tipp have serious firepower up front, no question, and parity of possession, hooks, blocks and turnovers in the middle third may not be enough for us to win. Everthing we brought against Limerick, we need to bring it again and some more. That`s how I see it anyway.

Cornerback1

Just on the non 65 at the end of the game on Saturday. According to people, it originally came off a Limerick player so it should have been a KK sideline.


Regardless, a piece in today's Irish News states that if the referee had spotted Cillian (who was way too close) waving and jumping in front of the side-line, the ref should have gave a free to Limerick and moved the sliotar 13m forward.


A player is allowed to stand in front and hold the hurl straight but not wave it or jump up and down.


Interesting piece on different rules and regulations and how some are never adhered to these days e.g. 4 steps etc.

mullinr2

Right can we now focus on the final and forget about Limerick. Most of us are surprised that we made it to the final. Now that we are there we don't want to lose, especially to Tipp.
I really think management and players should look back at the 16 final to see what happened in the second half of that game. Tipp are pretty much playing the same way this year and are putting up big scores.
2016 final 2.29
2019 Cork 2.28
Clare 3.21
Waterford 2.30
Wexford 1.29 (could have had 3.29)
If we can hold them to the score they got in the round robin match against Limerick 1.22 I would give us a chance. Munster final score 2.14 even better.
If they score any of the above scores I'm afraid we won't match them.

Grats

After losing the Leinster Final I was doubtful we were going anywhere fast. I felt the injuries to key players were hampering us big time. In the run up to the Cork match I thought if we cut down on the wides, which helped Wexford defeat us, we might have a chance. As it turned out we performed brilliantly and showed much progress. You could see how much the players wanted it which augured well for the Limerick match. We needed to bring the same intensity and work rate, and more, if we were to defeat the current Champions. We did and won a cracking game with the players showing further progress and hunger.

We were underdogs in both matches and are again for the Final. The team is coming together nicely and with a late run at the right time. They've built up a head of steam now and will ensure Tipp will have to perform at their best to defeat Kilkenny.

What a bonus if Cillian Buckley makes further progress in the weeks remaining. Cody clearly has him in his plans and has gambled in the last two matches in the hope of rehabilitating him for the Final. Conor Delaney would be an added bonus should he make it.

savannahkat

Look at the Kilkenny team for Leinster Final those high lighted lost their first choice places
1 Eoin Murphy (Glenmore); 2 Paul Murphy (Danesfort), 3 Huw Lawlor (O’Loughlin Gaels), 4 Tommy Walsh (Tullaroan)[/B]; 5 Conor Fogarty (Erin’s Own), 6 Padraig Walsh (Tullaroan), 7 Paddy Deegan (O’Loughlin Gaels); 8 Alan Murphy (Glenmore), 9 Richie Leahy (Rower Inistioge); 10 Adrian Mullen (Ballyhale Shamrocks), 11 Billy Ryan (Graigue-Ballycallan), 12 TJ Reid (Ballyhale Shamrocks); 13 Bill Sheehan (Dicksboro), 14 Colin Fennelly (Ballyhale Shamrocks), 15 Ger Aylward (Glenmore).

Joey Holden, John Donnelhly, Conor Browne, Waltar Walsh and Ritchie Hogan came in. That is 1/3 of the whole team

kilkennyboy

Watched tipp v wexford with the final in mind .And half way through was
Worried enough about facing wexford. They were cutting tipp open and taking the wrong options looked full of ideas on how to open up tipp.
Then wexford put on a couple of subs and they contributed nothing.

Wexford got some lucky breaks and decision. Put tipp got the job done
That doesn't fix the problems they had . Both midfielders taken of and one of their halfforwards. The mahers really struggle with guys taking them on.kilkenny will go after this .
If we hurl our positions in the halfback line and leave space for our half forwards and Colin as a target. We can open them up.
Our puckouts being worked up the line will starve their big fielders.

Most of the Kilkenny panel have waited 3years for redemption. Non more so than Joey. And I'm fairly confident they will get it.go back to the league final last year .same problems and tipp haven't changed that much

Grats

savannahkat wrote: »

Look at the Kilkenny team for Leinster Final those high lighted lost their first choice places
1 Eoin Murphy (Glenmore); 2 Paul Murphy (Danesfort), 3 Huw Lawlor (O’Loughlin Gaels), 4 Tommy Walsh (Tullaroan)[/B]; 5 Conor Fogarty (Erin’s Own), 6 Padraig Walsh (Tullaroan), 7 Paddy Deegan (O’Loughlin Gaels); 8 Alan Murphy (Glenmore), 9 Richie Leahy (Rower Inistioge); 10 Adrian Mullen (Ballyhale Shamrocks), 11 Billy Ryan (Graigue-Ballycallan), 12 TJ Reid (Ballyhale Shamrocks); 13 Bill Sheehan (Dicksboro), 14 Colin Fennelly (Ballyhale Shamrocks), 15 Ger Aylward (Glenmore).

Joey Holden, John Donnelhly, Conor Browne, Waltar Walsh and Ritchie Hogan came in. That is 1/3 of the whole team

Couple of observations. Cody gave so many a run throughout the league and Leinster Championship which is paying off now. Stuck with that half back line and they're playing better individually and as a unit. How did Tommy Walsh, and indeed his club mate Martin Keoghan, fall back in the pack so much?

oconnol1

Grats wrote: »

Couple of observations. Cody gave so many a run throughout the league and Leinster Championship which is paying off now. Stuck with that half back line and they're playing better individually and as a unit. How did Tommy Walsh, and indeed his club mate Martin Keoghan, fall back in the pack so much?

Think the latter two have been on the beer.