Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

kilkennyboy

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Fairly sure it was Sheedy who brought the new sponsor in. They discussed it on The Hurling Show last week on OTB.

To be honest lads a few of ye need to get a ****ing grip.

Sheedy is clearly an exceptional manager. He assembled a serious backroom team and his players love him. Throwing disparaging comments at him two days after he's won an All Ireland is ridiculous.

You might be fairly sure but I actually am sure what way things were set up
And backed the man 3 weeks before he got the job at 16/1.
I told the tipp forum and was laughed at and called a troal.
Nothing disparaging about it .its the way the world works

Edgware

JohnCougar wrote: »

The record books show

Cody 11, Sheedy 2 , Ryan 1.

Kilkenny 36 Tipperary 28.

Sheedy did not have the balls to stay on after 2010. He is a one in a row manager.

Some people actually have a life outside hurling

Joe Daly

BlachAmber wrote: »

Would Delaney be a full back, just wondering? Himself and Huw could be 3 and 6 but who goes where.

Hurled well in the position up to his injury, when he came on last Sunday he hit a couple of good ball Padraig Walsh I think scored a point from one of his pases. Huw Lawlor did well last sunday he was under fierce pressure as all the backs were.

Last Stop

funnyname wrote: »

Jaysus Eddie that's from 2008, the rules have been amended since then.

There is no new rule. People keep gong on about this. The GAA came out at the start of the year and said they were going to clamp down on head high tackles (ie enforce the current rules). Unfortunately, this has not been the case as Ronan Maher, Bubbles, Bill cooper, Buckley and Barrett would all have seen red if that was the case.

Last Stop

Field east wrote: »

One of the things noted in Kil playing style is that when any player gets a wallop- whether it draws a fee or not- they normally do not go down. That must be part of Cody’s philosophy - to achieve a better result for the team.

Think about it. Going down might help in the drawing a free but it dilutes the focus as to what each player is about. It interferes with the intensity philosophy. ‘Going down’ is against the ‘ honest hurlers ‘ philosophy.

What utter nonsense. Kilkenny lads don’t go down because they’re not hurt. The majority of these sort of tackles don’t hurt players who have build up such strength and conditioning to take a hit.
It was quite clear on Sunday that Barrett felt the initial contact but his reaction was delayed and clearly intended to milk the incident. Even listening to his interview yesterday and in fairness to some of the other Tipp lads, it’s clear that they felt it was a harsh call.
Had Barrett driven the ball down the field and then went down for treatment would it have been red? I genuinely don’t think so. I’m not saying it wasn’t a red card based on the replays etc. but in real time and minus Barrett’s reaction, it was not a black/white incident.

droppingball

Seriously good interview from Richie Hogan on off the ball tonight, very honest. Great speaker and amazing the effort he has made to get on the pitch. True legend of kilkenny hurling.

Very appreciative of his efforts for his county after the interview. Sounds like he will be back and he deserves to go out on a better note. Hopefully it's not too much for him and he gets the opportunity. He owes us nothing either way. The interview is well worth a listen.

robbiezero

droppingball wrote: »

Seriously good interview from Richie Hogan on off the ball tonight, very honest. Great speaker and amazing the effort he has made to get on the pitch. True legend of kilkenny hurling.

Very appreciative of his efforts for his county after the interview. Sounds like he will be back and he deserves to go out on a better note. Hopefully it's not too much for him and he gets the opportunity. He owes us nothing either way. The interview is well worth a listen.

Marvelous hurler and a great servant to his county. Hope he gets the chance to play again and not finish a superb career on that note.

Charlie69

https://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/gaa-on-off-the-ball/richie-hogan-interview-theres-absolutely-no-way-sending-off

digzy

robbiezero wrote: »

Marvelous hurler and a great servant to his county. Hope he gets the chance to play again and not finish a superb career on that note.

He basically said if they’d won he’d have retired, but didn’t wanna finish up like that.

kala85

Top class interview from Richie.

It is only from listening to that interview that someone can understand the commitment levels and desire for him to overcome his injuries.

Field east

Last Stop wrote: »

What utter nonsense. Kilkenny lads don’t go down because they’re not hurt. The majority of these sort of tackles don’t hurt players who have build up such strength and conditioning to take a hit.
It was quite clear on Sunday that Barrett felt the initial contact but his reaction was delayed and clearly intended to milk the incident. Even listening to his interview yesterday and in fairness to some of the other Tipp lads, it’s clear that they felt it was a harsh call.
Had Barrett driven the ball down the field and then went down for treatment would it have been red? I genuinely don’t think so. I’m not saying it wasn’t a red card based on the replays etc. but in real time and minus Barrett’s reaction, it was not a black/white incident.

Disappointed that u severely cherry picked my input. Was it not a very black and white incident in the end. The ref did not see the incident re Hogan and Barrett. Two observations ,I would speculate, swing it. The linesman may not have seen the elbow hitting Barrett’s jaw BUT he probably saw Barrett’s head suddenly jerked - like a boxers head being jerked when he gets a good punch is landed to the head/jaw. Secondly, the TV, showed three angles on it and it was the third take that showed the elbow making contact with the jaw. If that what Dickie Murphy saw then there was no argument re yellow or red

kilkennyboy

Charlie69 wrote: »

https://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/gaa-on-off-the-ball/richie-hogan-interview-theres-absolutely-no-way-sending-off

Class act. What he has given for our county is beyond measure.
Since his days as a minor with the baby jesus tag.hope he gets the dream finish he deserves.
But he owes us nothing.

mercury16

Field east wrote: »

Disappointed that u severely cherry picked my input. Was it not a very black and white incident in the end. The ref did not see the incident re Hogan and Barrett. Two observations ,I would speculate, swing it. The linesman may not have seen the elbow hitting Barrett’s jaw BUT he probably saw Barrett’s head suddenly jerked - like a boxers head being jerked when he gets a good punch is landed to the head/jaw. Secondly, the TV, showed three angles on it and it was the third take that showed the elbow making contact with the jaw. If that what Dickie Murphy saw then there was no argument re yellow or red

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/there-was-absolutely-no-way-it-was-a-sending-off-hogan-responds-to-red-card-controversy-945147.html

Watch the way Barrett has a delayed reaction to the hot from Hogan and then his head goes straight up rather than sideways... what a joke! Deliberately play a ting here and trying to get the lad sent off. Too much of this creeping into the game and there are a few players from other counties who are notorious for it.

kilkennyboy

Having listened to richie's interview and Cody's comments.
Will he appeal the suspension it seems the obvious thing to do if he feels
So strongly.
Their is a cumulative effect with cards .
And he would miss first championship game next year.
I think if I was in his boots I would want it resended.

kilkennyboy

I doubt John Donnelly will be playing special junior.
Thomas town are intermediate

Village87

Surely a shake up in management is required, Kilkenny need an extended backroom team if Cody is staying on. Some of the decisions on Sunday from the line were terrible, this is not the first time either.

dubcat51

Crummy still gets the oscar for me.as for james owens he clearly sees johnny coen in 15 doesnt see richie ,yet of the 2 richie walks.??

robbiezero

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Having listened to richie's interview and Cody's comments.
Will he appeal the suspension it seems the obvious thing to do if he feels
So strongly.
Their is a cumulative effect with cards .
And he would miss first championship game next year.
I think if I was in his boots I would want it resended.

He would be wasting his time appealing I think. There isn't a prayer of it being rescinded.

Cornerback1

My view on it is this:

It was a red card. I think he was frustrated with the earlier incident and lined him up on the line and Barrett just saw him coming and moved. Richie's elbow came up to get something in an instictive way as otherwise, he'd crash over the sideline and be made a fool of.

We've all seen it - 2 lads go to shoulder, one lads pulls back and the other lad shoulders fresh air and tipples over in a heap and the crowd go wild with giggling.

Richie owes nobody anything - a great servant and unbelieveable hurler. Brave as a lion and great in the air. Always will be a KK legend!

Did it change the game? Yes but we'll never know the outcome so no point in discussing. Probably helps KK fans as it 'cushions' the score at the end.

I was disappointed, at half time, as it gave the group 15mins to plan but nothing seemed to happen. T.J. went into edge of square at around 55mins. It was far too early to go looking for goals. Needed to take the points. My reasoning was, well if the players outfield can lob ball into the square, surely they can hit it another 20yards and put it over the ball.

Also, with Wally, T.J. and Colin in there, it was predictable as they never moved. They needed to move along the line to create a bit of space and drag Tipp out of there but movement was very poor I thought.

I thought Donnelly and Lawlor were immense in their first All Ireland Final and T.J. wasexcellent, as usual in the first half. For the younger lads, it's a learning experience, all be it a disappointing one.

For people to give out about Liam Sheedy is poor form. He's a great manager and brought a great team in with him. Very evident to see the players play for him and his backroom. He only had one thing on his mind this year and that was to win the Liam Mc Carty so fair play to him. After the Munster Final, he regrouped and refocused his efforts and Sunday was just rewards for him.

A few months ago, I never thought KK would be in an AIF, so the lads deserve credit for that. As stated, the journey was a great experience for the younger lads and will stand to them.

Be interesting to see who develops in the gym over the winter as physiciality is important at that level, as well as hurling skills. I think the team is taking good shape and next year we'll be in a good place. Disappointing to lose the final but we must look at the bigger picture.

dastardly00

Cornerback1 wrote: »

My view on it is this:

It was a red card. I think he was frustrated with the earlier incident and lined him up on the line and Barrett just saw him coming and moved. Richie's elbow came up to get something in an instictive way as otherwise, he'd crash over the sideline and be made a fool of.

We've all seen it - 2 lads go to shoulder, one lads pulls back and the other lad shoulders fresh air and tipples over in a heap and the crowd go wild with giggling.

Richie owes nobody anything - a great servant and unbelieveable hurler. Brave as a lion and great in the air. Always will be a KK legend!

Did it change the game? Yes but we'll never know the outcome so no point in discussing. Probably helps KK fans as it 'cushions' the score at the end.

I was disappointed, at half time, as it gave the group 15mins to plan but nothing seemed to happen. T.J. went into edge of square at around 55mins. It was far too early to go looking for goals. Needed to take the points. My reasoning was, well if the players outfield can lob ball into the square, surely they can hit it another 20yards and put it over the ball.

Also, with Wally, T.J. and Colin in there, it was predictable as they never moved. They needed to move along the line to create a bit of space and drag Tipp out of there but movement was very poor I thought.

I thought Donnelly and Lawlor were immense in their first All Ireland Final and T.J. wasexcellent, as usual in the first half. For the younger lads, it's a learning experience, all be it a disappointing one.

For people to give out about Liam Sheedy is poor form. He's a great manager and brought a great team in with him. Very evident to see the players play for him and his backroom. He only had one thing on his mind this year and that was to win the Liam Mc Carty so fair play to him. After the Munster Final, he regrouped and refocused his efforts and Sunday was just rewards for him.

A few months ago, I never thought KK would be in an AIF, so the lads deserve credit for that. As stated, the journey was a great experience for the younger lads and will stand to them.

Be interesting to see who develops in the gym over the winter as physiciality is important at that level, as well as hurling skills. I think the team is taking good shape and next year we'll be in a good place. Disappointing to lose the final but we must look at the bigger picture.

I agree Cornerback1, good post

Hawkeye6

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

As regards the red card for Hogan. Yes it was red. Kilkenny people need to accept it. As per current cold rules and on the VIDEO EVIDENCE it is red. This applies to any head strike, either accidental or intentionally. No argument!!! However, in REAL TIME, it is Not red. Nobody can honestly claim that red was on their mind. To be fair to both ref and linesman, I do not believe they made this decision. The decision could only be made by someone who had access to replay the video over a period of one minute and relay the call, hence the delay.

Conspiracy??? Look back at the game and check the last few minutes when Callanan pushed Lawlor in front of the Nally. No free. No signal of advantage. Callanan heads towards goal with the ball and is obviously fouled himself. Referee blows the whistle and strangely gives free to Kilkenny where Lawlor was fouled. Now what made him go back?? No linesman or umpire intervention was there? Shouts from Kilkenny Supporters don’t usually change the ref’s mind. Strange.

James Owens only a few minutes prior to sending Richie off, blew immediately when Barret hit Richie across the head with the hurley. (Remember accident/intent are the same above the head) He saw it and blew. He clearly saw Richie was bleeding from the head, so no doubts of where the strike was. He immediately sent Richie to the line (Is Richie the first player to be sent to the line twice in the One All-Ireland final?). James Owens incorrectly applied common sense and didn’t even give a yellow card. Richie was a man and did not lay down crying. Even the perpetrator Cathal Barrett is on record as saying any strike to the head must be a red card. Moments later, and coincidently the same two players are involved again. Barrett lays down crying after suffering a “massive concussion”. The ref and linesman are not convinced. Ref looks at Barrett. This was irrelevant when he looked at Richie. The message is relayed to Owens during that minute break, “apply the rules to the letter of the law” this time. “Rules are rules”. Which he did. The common sense which he has applied in the past not just in this game was taken off the table. Owens normally doesn’t do red in these situations to be fair, often to our angst. If there was no communication, it would then reflect James Owens in a very poor light.

For those that think this could not possibly happen… Who knew before the semi-final that play could be brought back by Hawkeye (aka Dickie Murphy) for a ball that has gone over the bar (Brian Hogan catches). I certainly didn’t. This is new. And it’s happened twice now. It didn’t happen when Eoin Murphy caught Pauric Mahoney’s free in Thurles a few years ago. Who knows, real time versus video… The Issue here is people don’t realise VAR (I hate the Cromwellian Premiership term) is unofficially in operation for the All-Ireland final. Tipp lads might be smiling but the next time it could be them or some other county. So really ALL counties should be asking the questions surrounding the decision making process for not sending off Barrett and then sending off Richie. It is relevant although it will not change history for us.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/hawk-eye-wide-mark-ireland-final-205264

I am surprised (or maybe not) why so few are grasping the bigger picture importance of the decision making process of both Barret/Hogan incidents than the card decisions itself. These are examples of where the clubs and county boards have lost control to Croke Park and all decisions on rules take place there now.

Hawkeye or "someone" runs the show now. The journalists need to ask the questions. we need to ask the questions.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/hawk-eye-wide-mark-ireland-final-205264

I am surprised (or maybe not) why so few are grasping the bigger picture importance of the decision making process of both Barret/Hogan incidents than the card decisions itself. These are examples of where the clubs and county boards have lost control to Croke Park and all decisions on rules take place there now.

Hawkeye or "someone" runs the show now. The journalists need to ask the questions. we need to ask the questions.

It seemed pretty clear at the match that Owens missed Hogan's contact with Barrett, his didn't even indicate a free if I recall correctly and the linesman was not best positioned to see it either, but somehow after a very long time they came to the ultimate conclusion.

Of course any effort to query this is dismissed as trying to claim it wasn't deserving of a red card, bitterness etc. etc.

Field east

mercury16 wrote: »

[ugrl]https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/there-was-absolutely-no-way-it-was-a-sending-off-hogan-responds-to-red-card-controversy-945147.html[/url]

Watch the way Barrett has a delayed reaction to the hot from Hogan and then his head goes straight up rather than sideways... what a joke! Deliberately play a ting here and trying to get the lad sent off. Too much of this creeping into the game and there are a few players from other counties who are notorious for it.

The head movement you refer to was preceded by another head movement- ie the one that Barrett’s head made when Hogan’s shoulder/ elbow made contact with Barrett’s head. You should watch the complete video snippets on the incident

sportsfan90

As a neutral last Sunday who had a slight favour towards Kilkenny, I have to say it was a definite red card. Richie plays the game fairly and is absolutely not a dirty player, but it was a clumsy and frustrated tackle that warranted a red. I'm not sure what relevance tackles from several years ago have - if decisions from previous matches were incorrect, isn't it right that referees learn from their mistakes.

Having said all that, thankfully it sounds like Richie doesn't plan on retiring on that note. Even if he never again wins another medal, he deserves a better ending than that. He has been probably my favorite hurler over the past decade. Such a skillful player who showed his class as recently as this years quarter final against my own county.

kilkennyboy

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

It seemed pretty clear at the match that Owens missed Hogan's contact with Barrett, his didn't even indicate a free if I recall correctly and the linesman was not best positioned to see it either, but somehow after a very long time they came to the ultimate conclusion.

Of course any effort to query this is dismissed as trying to claim it wasn't deserving of a red card, bitterness etc. etc.

Hogans disciplinary hearing would be interesting. Just to hear how they came to
Their conclusion .
Is it an unofficial video review..what would be a ruling on that and
And when is it used.
Referee was micked up for rte maybe for a documentary at a later date will we ever here that audio.

tibruit

Field east wrote: »

Disappointed that u severely cherry picked my input. Was it not a very black and white incident in the end. The ref did not see the incident re Hogan and Barrett. Two observations ,I would speculate, swing it. The linesman may not have seen the elbow hitting Barrett’s jaw BUT he probably saw Barrett’s head suddenly jerked - like a boxers head being jerked when he gets a good punch is landed to the head/jaw. Secondly, the TV, showed three angles on it and it was the third take that showed the elbow making contact with the jaw. If that what Dickie Murphy saw then there was no argument re yellow or red

You`ve stated twice there that Hogans elbow hit Barretts jaw. That is factually wrong. Hogans upper arm grazed Barretts face guard. I`m not saying it wasn`t a red card but for someone whose been doing a lot of looking at replays, the least you could do is say it as it is. Furthermore a linesman can`t send a guy off because he saw his opponents head jerking but didn`t see actual contact. That`s the same as sending a man off because his opponent is rolling around on the ground so therefore something bad must have happened. Do you know for certain that it was Dickie Murphy who was in Owens ear?

Field east

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/hawk-eye-wide-mark-ireland-final-205264

I am surprised (or maybe not) why so few are grasping the bigger picture importance of the decision making process of both Barret/Hogan incidents than the card decisions itself. These are examples of where the clubs and county boards have lost control to Croke Park and all decisions on rules take place there now.

Hawkeye or "someone" runs the show now. The journalists need to ask the questions. we need to ask the questions.

Where exactly is the plane of the goalposts? Is it the midline, the field side or the other side of the posts?
Also, how much of the sliotar must past this plane so as to be registered as a TA?
God help us if there is a very heavy wind blowing straight into the goalposts and the sliotar is sent in very high from the sideline and from a very acute angle and the top of the uprights are deflected by that critical inch or two. Just saying. Not saying that ‘somebody moved the goalposts’ but is there a rule that covers this possibility?

robbiezero

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Hogans disciplinary hearing would be interesting. Just to hear how they came to
Their conclusion .
Is it an unofficial video review..what would be a ruling on that and
And when is it used.
Referee was micked up for rte maybe for a documentary at a later date will we ever here that audio.

The free against Callanan was very odd alright. Looked a push in the back, play went on, the it seemed Callanan was done for steps which was extremely harsh, I don't think he had taken the 4 steps.

adrian522

I thought the referee was fairly poor overall. There seemed to be 2 penalties that were awarded as frees. There seemed to be a fair few instances where players were obviously fouled and play was waived on and even a few instances where he bizarrely gave a free the other way.

I also thought there were a fair few yellow card offenses that weren't given.

But all this is based on watching from the stands, I haven't watched the game back but my initial view was that he was a bit all over the place.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

adrian522 wrote: »

I thought the referee was fairly poor overall. There seemed to be 2 penalties that were awarded as frees. There seemed to be a fair few instances where players were obviously fouled and play was waived on and even a few instances where he bizarrely gave a free the other way.

I also thought there were a fair few yellow card offenses that weren't given.

But all this is based on watching from the stands, I haven't watched the game back but my initial view was that he was a bit all over the place.

I thought the same, and also, like a few referees today, he was poor at signalling what his decision was. In some cases, blowing the whistle was not accompanied by any hand gesture such as a raised arm etc. I suppose he tells the players involved but the crowd are left scratching their heads sometimes