Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

holyhead

A classy interview by Richie. Debunking the revenge theory for his challenge on Barrett. Very gracious towards Tipp. Has Brian Cody earned the right to step down at a time of his choosing or is there a bigger picture to consider?

JJs Left Hand

He's not going anywhere from the sounds of it. Seemingly gave a big speech at the banquet. Don't know what was said though.

robbiezero

holyhead wrote: »

A classy interview by Richie. Debunking the revenge theory for his challenge on Barrett. Very gracious towards Tipp. Has Brian Cody earned the right to step down at a time of his choosing or is there a bigger picture to consider?

As an outsider (Tipp man), I would consider that he has at least earned another year in the hotseat.
There has been significant improvement this year and getting to an All-Ireland final beating Limerick and Cork was a very decent achievement.
You could compare the situation to that of Mickey Harte, where it looks like progress has stalled and his rebuilt team just has not been good enough to get near winning an AI and looks like it might be on the decline.

BloodyBill

Field east wrote: »

Where exactly is the plane of the goalposts? Is it the midline, the field side or the other side of the posts?
Also, how much of the sliotar must past this plane so as to be registered as a TA?
God help us if there is a very heavy wind blowing straight into the goalposts and the sliotar is sent in very high from the sideline and from a very acute angle and the top of the uprights are deflected by that critical inch or two. Just saying. Not saying that ‘somebody moved the goalposts’ but is there a rule that covers this possibility?

Interesting 'points'you make if you ll pardon the pun.

1. For a point all the ball needs to do is break the plane of the cross bar and not cross the full width. This is against the rules on my opinion as the whole of the ball needs to cross the whole of the line.
2. Hawkeye is calibrated to count any breaking of the vertical point post..ie higher than the point post ...as a wide...but in reality if the ball hits the post in real life theres a chance it goes over ..it often happens that it hits the inside of the post and goes over.. It doesn't allow for this with Hawkeye. It's just signalled a wide.

Village87

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

He's not going anywhere from the sounds of it. Seemingly gave a big speech at the banquet. Don't know what was said though.

I was there for it. Just covering over cracks and talking about how great everything is. Cody is holding back Kilkenny hurling imo. Time for a review and not the same moguls calling everything before clubs can get a chance to speak or opposition raise interest in the top job.

holyhead

Village87 wrote: »

I was there for it. Just covering over cracks and talking about how great everything is. Cody is holding back Kilkenny hurling imo. Time for a review and not the same moguls calling everything before clubs can get a chance to speak or opposition raise interest in the top job.

I don’t think anyone in the county board would have the cojones to block his reselection as manager. I think he should have walked away after 10 AI victories. I imagine he would have found the trimming by Tipp hard to digest.

mountgomery burns

adrian522 wrote: »

I thought the referee was fairly poor overall. There seemed to be 2 penalties that were awarded as frees. There seemed to be a fair few instances where players were obviously fouled and play was waived on and even a few instances where he bizarrely gave a free the other way.

I also thought there were a fair few yellow card offenses that weren't given.

But all this is based on watching from the stands, I haven't watched the game back but my initial view was that he was a bit all over the place.

Watched on tv, think he had an excellent game to be honest. Tipp were under sever pressure, and fouling as a consequence which was backed up by Owens awarding a lot of frees in the first 20 mins to Kilkenny. He got the red spot on, was in an excellent position to call it and took his time to discuss with the linesman. And initially thought it was harsh, it was only when I saw the view he had that I could see it was a red.

Callanan maybe could have had a penalty but I think there may have been initial contact outside the square. If the other penalty incident you refer to involves the departure of Adrian Mullen from the field well I can confirm for you now there was no foul there at all.

mullinr2

I see Michael Donoghue has stepped down. Some managers know when a fresh approach, new ideas are needed. Others don't.

Hawkeye6

Straight Question to both Village87 and mullinr2...

Who should take over from Brian Cody? (one name)

kala85

Shefflin

Village87

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Straight Question to both Village87 and mullinr2...

Who should take over from Brian Cody? (one name)

You can throw down the usual suspects but Cody has to go.

The style of hurling is terrible, the skill level is poor, work rate and application is great.

We have the likes of Padraig Walsh, John Donnelly, Mullens, Leahy, James Maher, Eoin Murphy over the next few years.

A clear out is needed as most of the lads between 28-32 have not been good enough last 3/4 years and a fresh approach from the line is badly needed.
Too many young hurlers not responding to Cody's bullying dictator attitude.

Lefty Bicek

kala85 wrote: »

Shefflin

Eddie Brennan

JohnCougar

Village87 wrote: »

The whole Richie Hogan thing is completely overshadowing Kilkennys inept performance on the field and on the sideline.
Kilkenny had 5/6 lads in there 30s another 5/6 lads between 27/29 and badly need new players to step up. I highlighted the lack of class on the Kilkenny team,we rely on teams having off days and dogging other teams and over relying on TJ to get wins.
I can see things getting a lot worse before they improve. There must 10/11 lads between Dicksboro and and Bennetsbridge on the panel and Buckley is the only one getting a game and he is in big bother as his mobility is leaving him down. The panel is very poor and TJ is 33 next year. I am not very optimistic for the future.

Also our style of hurling is terrible

What is your point about the Dicksboro and Bennettsbridge players on the panel?

JJs Left Hand

This thread is amazing at times.

mullinr2

Shefflin

Village87

JohnCougar wrote: »

What is your point about the Dicksboro and Bennettsbridge players on the panel?

2 top clubs in the county and none of there players are good enough to get a game. I know sheehan was injured. Bridge lads are on it 3/4 years and in my eyes are regressing. The set up has gone stale and needs a freshen up.

JohnCougar

In connection with the managers job, Cody's is there 21 years and he either needs to step down or completely change his backroom team and bring in Henry Shefflin and Eddie Brennan as he assistants with young S & C coaches like Michael Fennelly.

Cody is always speaking at business events and how sport and business are related. The most successful people in business bring in more qualified employees than themselves and better people around them than themselves.

I think he needs to do that and bring in Henry and Eddie.

This is about Kilkenny hurling and not about Brian Cody, Henry Shefflin or Eddie Brennan.

When Brian retires he then has Henry and Eddie to take over?

JJs Left Hand

I'd say there's two chances of Eddie and Henry going in as selectors under Cody. Slim and none.

JohnCougar

Village87 wrote: »

2 top clubs in the county and none of there players are good enough to get a game. I know sheehan was injured. Bridge lads are on it 3/4 years and in my eyes are regressing. The set up has gone stale and needs a freshen up.

That's your opinion that they are not good enough to be on it. If you think that they are not good enough then all the other clubs are worse off.
Then we have no one coming through at all.

These players and others are good enough if they got the proper chance and a prolonged run in the team like a lot of players. If you look at panels over the years, lots of players like Jackie Tyrell, Kieran Joyce, TJ Reid, Richie Hogan were on the panel for 3/4 years before they got their chance and they were luck to come into a good team.

If all these players are regressing which you may be right its down to the level of training they are getting in Nowlan Park. This is something that needs to change.

The_Ghost

To win on Sunday we needed some luck, unfortunately Mullen, Hogan and Buckley weren’t 100% but I doubt all of tipp were either. We also didn’t make our own luck, Colin has to shorten the grip on the hurl before striking but a great hook and then Wally had a clear chance for goal on a poor keeper but he turned back and got a free for very little. For their first goal Fogerty was turned inside out, in my opinion he should have just fouled him, that also came for Maher catching a great ball over Wally. Their second goal was a mix up between Walsh and Murphy, I doubt they could communicate in croker but it was an easy ball for Murphy, then Walsh got back and blocked it but it went straight to seamie who barely beat Murphy to the ball. Small margins. Joey’s positioning for the third goal was woeful I can see what he was doing but he should have waited until seamie took on lawor before moving across. Was nice to see Joey and Murphy go well after 2016, thought Murphy defended greatly but his distribution was poor. All the backs went well enough but fogertys striking was poor as was Buckley’s and brownes.

The first half went well for us excluding the red and being 1 down. We done all the hurling and were going well, the tactics were very good. However it has been said before that Cody’s in game tactical switches arnt the best and he usually gets them right when when we have time to prepare etc. After seeing the Wexford game how did we think going long was the awnser, I don’t care how good tj is in the air he was outnumbered. At one stage it was tj Colin and Wally all in there just standing asking for long ball which we would normally lose then they’d break through our half forward line easily because we had 3 inside at times and set up attacks. It was hard to look at.

We seemed flat enough through out despite starting well. Very tough one to take especially to lose to Tipp like that again but overall I feel we did well to get there against the odds. Mullen lawor and Donnolly have stepped up and Ryan and Leahy are on the verge but the winter months are very important as some of the younger lads still don’t seem as conditioned as they should be, to the eye anyway. Cody will stay and by the sounds of it Hogan will too but as he said himself he’s injury hit.

Village87

JohnCougar wrote: »

That's your opinion that they are not good enough to be on it. If you think that they are not good enough then all the other clubs are worse off.
Then we have no one coming through at all.

These players and others are good enough if they got the proper chance and a prolonged run in the team like a lot of players. If you look at panels over the years, lots of players like Jackie Tyrell, Kieran Joyce, TJ Reid, Richie Hogan were on the panel for 3/4 years before they got their chance and they were luck to come into a good team.

If all these players are regressing which you may be right its down to the level of training they are getting in Nowlan Park. This is something that needs to change.

It seem Cody has made up his mind on a lot of them. A new manager comes in with new ideas and different opinions on players. I would like to see a lot of player under a new regime. Cody has his 11/12 players and never changes them and some of them are not good enough

Village87

The_Ghost wrote: »

To win on Sunday we needed some luck, unfortunately Mullen, Hogan and Buckley weren’t 100% but I doubt all of tipp were either. We also didn’t make our own luck, Colin has to shorten the grip on the hurl before striking but a great hook and then Wally had a clear chance for goal on a poor keeper but he turned back and got a free for very little. For their first goal Fogerty was turned inside out, in my opinion he should have just fouled him, that also came for Maher catching a great ball over Wally. Their second goal was a mix up between Walsh and Murphy, I doubt they could communicate in croker but it was an easy ball for Murphy, then Walsh got back and blocked it but it went straight to seamie who barely beat Murphy to the ball. Small margins. Joey’s positioning for the third goal was woeful I can see what he was doing but he should have waited until seamie took on lawor before moving across. Was nice to see Joey and Murphy go well after 2016, thought Murphy defended greatly but his distribution was poor. All the backs went well enough but fogertys striking was poor as was Buckley’s and brownes.

The first half went well for us excluding the red and being 1 down. We done all the hurling and were going well, the tactics were very good. However it has been said before that Cody’s in game tactical switches arnt the best and he usually gets them right when when we have time to prepare etc. After seeing the Wexford game how did we think going long was the awnser, I don’t care how good tj is in the air he was outnumbered. At one stage it was tj Colin and Wally all in there just standing asking for long ball which we would normally lose then they’d break through our half forward line easily because we had 3 inside at times and set up attacks. It was hard to look at.

We seemed flat enough through out despite starting well. Very tough one to take especially to lose to Tipp like that again but overall I feel we did well to get there against the odds. Mullen lawor and Donnolly have stepped up and Ryan and Leahy are on the verge but the winter months are very important as some of the younger lads still don’t seem as conditioned as they should be, to the eye anyway. Cody will stay and by the sounds of it Hogan will too but as he said himself he’s injury hit.

Padraig Maher caught a great puck out and a quick handpass to Seamus Kennedy who hit a 70/30 ball straight down on Fogarty who should be catching that as this level, he dropped it and got skinned for the goal. Very poor play compared to that of the Tipperary backs who fielded any amount of the high balls.

citykat

Village87 wrote: »

It seem Cody has made up his mind on a lot of them. A new manager comes in with new ideas and different opinions on players. I would like to see a lot of player under a new regime. Cody has his 11/12 players and never changes them and some of them are not good enough

I presume you've seen the size of the extended panel and who is on it. Who exactly is missing that would bypass the extended panel, the match day 26 and walk straight into the team?

BloodyBill

citykat wrote: »

I presume you've seen the size of the extended panel and who is on it. Who exactly is missing that would bypass the extended panel, the match day 26 and walk straight into the team?

Would Donal Og Cusack have much support in Kilkenny to take over if Cody steps down.?

Alonzo Moseley

Hi First post, but have been a viewer for about two years
So let me start by saying thanks to so many posters who have kept this Kilkenny man exiled in Dublin updated on club Matches etc

The fear with Cody going as I see it is that the aura and intensity he still brings to the party would dissipate.
We'd get a bit more coaching innovation, a different style but lose what even modest Kilkenny sides have, a savage intensity and work rate

I do not believe Clare or Waterford or Wexford (all teams who have given us plenty trouble in recent years) would have beaten Cork in a Croke Park quarter final and no way would they have beaten Limerick in a semi.
And there is the nub
We are respected and even feared in a Croke Park knock out scenario in a way those teams simply aren't (despite personnel wise, they are on balance at least as well equipped as us)
While Cody's win stats have dropped since 2012, his Croke Park record is still ridiculously good (his semi record is insanely so).

So it is that fear factor, or more accurately fear of Kilkenny factor that worries us if Cody goes.
Do we lose it once he goes?
Could we become a Cork mark 2?
A decade producing some lovely aesthetically pleasing hurling one day then flopping the next and no silverware

It is a tough one, because I do not see a halfway house solution, no way is Shefflin going in as a number 2, there is no number 2 with Cody in the way Eamon O Shea is a definitive and vital number 2 in Tipp.

But on balance, I'd side with Village 87 (whose posts I really like for their honesty even at risk of being unpopular) that it is time for change, even if it involves incurring the above outlined risk.

On underage, I think we are ok.
Galway are lethal at development level U14 to u17 and have been for nearly 30 years.
A Galway U17 team will have had 3 years of development that is well ahead of all other counties
Even 20 years ago, those at Tony Forristal tournaments observed how Galway were like a professional set up

We beat the two best U17 teams in Munster very easily playing lovely hurling, but Galway were like a brick wall
I knew after the ease with which Galway physically saw off our first two or three attacks, we were in trouble.

Our lack of success at U21 up to 2018 i think is due to Fitzgibbon influence (of which we have proportionally very little compared to Limerick, Clare, Cork and Tipp)

I think the proposed move to U19 and an abandonment of u17 and u20 would suit us very well.
This would involve a Kilkenny team largely made up of Kierans , CBS and Comer with a few young 1st year college lads.

For me it has to be Shefflin, not least because Ballyhale will undoubtedly supply a significant portion of team in coming years (Eoin Cody development is vital to our ability to widen our scoring options)
At our best this year v Cork and Limerick the understanding between Mullen and Colin and TJ was superb and caused all sorts of problems for opposition, E Cody would only increase that.

But also because for me at least he represent the best shot of continuing the aura and manic work rate ethic of Cody

Thanks again, likely to be a sporadic poster and not interested in the inter county bickering/snearing stuff and trolling

Hawkeye6

Village87 wrote: »

You can throw down the usual suspects but Cody has to go.

I have No suspects.
So throw out one name, top of your list.

You suggest a lot of players and management to go, surely its not difficult to throw out ONE name like mullinr did.

1373

The_Ghost wrote: »

To win on Sunday we needed some luck, unfortunately Mullen, Hogan and Buckley weren’t 100% but I doubt all of tipp were either. We also didn’t make our own luck, Colin has to shorten the grip on the hurl before striking but a great hook and then Wally had a clear chance for goal on a poor keeper but he turned back and got a free for very little. For their first goal Fogerty was turned inside out, in my opinion he should have just fouled him, that also came for Maher catching a great ball over Wally. Their second goal was a mix up between Walsh and Murphy, I doubt they could communicate in croker but it was an easy ball for Murphy, then Walsh got back and blocked it but it went straight to seamie who barely beat Murphy to the ball. Small margins. Joey’s positioning for the third goal was woeful I can see what he was doing but he should have waited until seamie took on lawor before moving across. Was nice to see Joey and Murphy go well after 2016, thought Murphy defended greatly but his distribution was poor. All the backs went well enough but fogertys striking was poor as was Buckley’s and brownes.

The first half went well for us excluding the red and being 1 down. We done all the hurling and were going well, the tactics were very good. However it has been said before that Cody’s in game tactical switches arnt the best and he usually gets them right when when we have time to prepare etc. After seeing the Wexford game how did we think going long was the awnser, I don’t care how good tj is in the air he was outnumbered. At one stage it was tj Colin and Wally all in there just standing asking for long ball which we would normally lose then they’d break through our half forward line easily because we had 3 inside at times and set up attacks. It was hard to look at.

We seemed flat enough through out despite starting well. Very tough one to take especially to lose to Tipp like that again but overall I feel we did well to get there against the odds. Mullen lawor and Donnolly have stepped up and Ryan and Leahy are on the verge but the winter months are very important as some of the younger lads still don’t seem as conditioned as they should be, to the eye anyway. Cody will stay and by the sounds of it Hogan will too but as he said himself he’s injury hit.

Don’t know why you would call hogan a poor keeper, for an inexperienced player most of us in Tipp thought he had a very good year , made some great stops and conceded very little

droppingball

Thought brian hogan wasn't great against wexford myself, not convinced by him yet, only time will tell as he is young.

Lefty Bicek

BloodyBill wrote: »

Would Donal Og Cusack have much support in Kilkenny to take over if Cody steps down.?

Shirleysrumbler

Some of the people calling for Cody to go have a few agendas. I see a few who criticise him for not picking X or Y etc. As an example why have Mullinavat produced no county man in last 3 years?