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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***
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Cornerback1 wrote: »In regards to speed, could an athletics coach not be brought into development squads over the wintwr to work on players' speed?
I think that should be looked at in tandem with an S & C coach. An by this I mean, a proper sprint coach who can improve a player's pace over 5 yards say.
Eoin Everard was brought in this year and gave a couple of workshops to coaches with the Kilkenny U16 squads early in the year. I believe he did more work with the squads without club coaches. All club coaches were invited to these sessions. The idea was to inform coaches on what to look out for and how to improve technique with a view to maximising a players potential speed rather than actually making them faster.
But it's EXTREMELY technical. And if you're only training twice a week trying to teach a 13/14/15 year old how to do A and B steps and not to run with their heels is difficult while also trying to do beginners strength training and hurling on top of that. The running needs to be done at nursery level and then re-taught after a child hits puberty, hits a growth spurt and their body mechanics go to pot. Then the reality is that most club coaches are parents who let's face it can't run for **** so how do they demonstrate it to kids how to do it correctly?
There's a lot of people throwing shade at the coaching set up in the county and I'm on record in here as saying the competitions in the county are a joke but this **** ain't easy. Especially at club level when you've got a massive varience in ability and you're trying to ensure every child is given an equal chance to maximise their potential.
The drop off in quality from minor to senior is huge because priorities change. Drink, drugs, women and the reality that there's more to life than hurling hits home so you lose a percentage through that.
People note the need for S&C to be introduced to get the young lads ready for intercounty hurling but do you realise the commitment that takes from that young lad? You're talking 3 or 4 nights a week of hard strength training which is boring as **** if you're not into it. You're going to lose a percentage because of that.
Then you've got the lads who make the minor panel because they're the best at their age. Then they go in to open senior hurling and quite frankly they just aren't good enough.
I believe the development squads are flawed. I attended a session during the summer where As and Bs trained on different fields and did two completely different sessions. Not a single thing matched. So the sessions are being left to the individuals in charge of their team rather than the county having a cohesive plan.
I believe we should have a north squad, a south squad and a city squad at the start of every year where each club sends in 3 or 4 players. Train once a week with the county, then in June its streamlined into two squads and then start again the following year with the same format. Lads continuously get chances to break into the squads every year then rather than the same lads automatically getting spots year on year.
That got very long, it's late and it may not make sense. I just ended up freestyling a bit so apologies.0 -
Question for you not being smart how many under age games have you seen
A few, almost all my own club. My two uncles coach at other clubs at underage, I get a lot of stories from them, mostly along the lines of that it’s hard to get games organized when the county sides are going well.0 -
Question for you not being smart how many under age games have you seen
A few, almost all my own club. My two uncles coach at other clubs at underage, I get a lot of stories from them, mostly along the lines of that it’s hard to get games organized when the county sides are going well.
I go to at 3 a week involving our club and maybe another 2 as well. Ranging from under 13 to minor. The amount of hurlers that make county players and squad players look quite ordinary is astonishing. These lads never get a look in. Have said it loads of time how can the best 25 players at 14 still.be the best 25 at 18. On the minor team this yr our club had 1 player and he would be the 4th or 5th player you would look to, to dig you out of a hole.0 -
brookville wrote: »If brian stays on as expected and theres change to the backroom team who would be in line?id say dj could come on board.Mick dempsey was lauded here after the limerick match for having our lads in great nick.when we lose a match then everything is wrong.As i said i dont think we were as bad as last sunday but things completly imploded in the secound half.The players need to take responsibility aswell especially experienced lads persisting with route one while the management deserve critism for playing lads who werent a hundred percent but yet im sure if u look back at posts here before the final we nearly all wanted richie starting and buckley for experience if he was anyway right.I think whatever happens anyway most of us would like to see fresh faces and a more varied approach.
Ive no doubt we have some good players and a very healthy club championship so hopefully a few more lads can make a good impression over the next few weeks especially a few goal scorers.A few lads id like to see getting a look at are conor doheny and shane walsh.I dunno if he would go back for bolger or walsh and not going to open that debate now but both are very direct.David blanchfield very good for the u20s.O loughlins have some promising young players.
I would like to see Henry brought in as a forwards coach and perhaps Brian Hogan or Mick Kavanagh for the backs. Had Henry been on the field last Sunday I doubt he'd have allowed the ballooning of balls down on top of him and his forwards. And he would act similarly on the sideline. The coaches would take the pressure off Brian Cody on match day.
Most people wanted Hogan and Buckley to started providing they were fit and had been able to train. None of us were privvy to what was going on in training so we had to accept that whoever started was fit to start and last. It was clear after 10/15 minutes that Mullen and Buckley were struggling. They weren't taken off until 10 minutes into the second half. We had Tipp on the backfoot for a lot of the first half but weren't maximising it partly due to those players struggling.
I think Aidan Nolan, Eoin Cody, Tom Aylward, Tommy Walsh, Evan Shefflin, Ger Malone and David Blanchfield are worth a go. John Walsh was in before but if he has a good club campaign he should be brought back in.0 -
JohnCougar wrote: »If they have looked at everything why did they allow the following:
(1) Richie Hogan to start if his medial ligament was gone
(2) Adrian Mullen to start if he was sick
(3) Cillian Buckley to start when he is clearly not himself
(4) Why was Bill Sheehan warming up and looked to be fine before the game if he faied a fitness test ??
Colin is on many people's team of the year so don't know what that is about
(5) Why have our U-21/U-20's being physically behind all other teams since 2008??
Also why is Colin Fennelly clearly not at match fitness for inter county hurling and has not been fit for the last 2/3 years.
Hogan was entitled to start minor tear of a medial legment if you don't start him you can't Bring him on .if a guy passed a fitness test why wouldn't you.
Adrian Mullen had a vomiting bug on the Tuesday got a bag of fluids as a energy booster on Wednesday night. Absolutely no reason he would not play a game 4 days later.
Cillian Buckley same as hogan (personally I would have gone with Maher)but entitled to start.
Bill Sheehan failed fitness test bit different having a few pucks beforehand
To playing.
5 is nonsense and doesn't deserve a response0 -
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Agreed.
Everybody knows the red card changed the game in favour of Tipp, but honestly, it was a red card. Forget the inconsistencies between different games, Owens make the correct decision as per the rules in this instance, and Richie can have no complaints.
There are far more important questions to answer in the aftermath of Sunday my opinion;
- Why did we start Buckley (who is clearly not hurling fit and hasn't played a full game in an age), Mullen (had a dose during the week where it's strongly rumoured he was on a drip for at one stage) & Richie Hogan (not capable of playing 70 minutes), 3 clearly unfit men, in an All-Ireland final?
- Why, after 15 minutes at half time, was there no re-adjustment to compensate for the red card?
- Why did management not intervene when we spent 20 minutes playing sky ball to Colin Fennelly with 3 men, who are all better in the air than he is, around him?
- Beyond win your own ball or hope for a break, what game-plan do we have for creating goal opportunities, or making space for our forwards?
And bigger questions now that another decade has gone;
- Why we haven't won a U21 title in 12 years?
- Even allowing for Galway's brilliant sides, how have we managed only one minor title since 2010 given our competitiveness at that level?
- Why, now that we pretty much have a settled calendar, not introduced a proper and competitive non-county player league during the summer to give club players more games.
- Why, outside of Kieran's, do our schools seem to be on a slide, and in line with that, with pretty much every underage hurler in the county going there, is there a chance that having so many lads at Kieran's is taking game time, and thus development, from some players?
- Why, given the general competitiveness at minor level, why we're not developing lads at U20 that look like breaking into the county team?
- Why do so many of our hurlers look like they lack the finesse of hurlers from other counties?
To be honest, I find that these are far more important questions than can we get Richie off for a what was in the rules a deserved red card.JJs Left Hand wrote: »Eoin Everard was brought in this year and gave a couple of workshops to coaches with the Kilkenny U16 squads early in the year. I believe he did more work with the squads without club coaches. All club coaches were invited to these sessions. The idea was to inform coaches on what to look out for and how to improve technique with a view to maximising a players potential speed rather than actually making them faster.
But it's EXTREMELY technical. And if you're only training twice a week trying to teach a 13/14/15 year old how to do A and B steps and not to run with their heels is difficult while also trying to do beginners strength training and hurling on top of that. The running needs to be done at nursery level and then re-taught after a child hits puberty, hits a growth spurt and their body mechanics go to pot. Then the reality is that most club coaches are parents who let's face it can't run for **** so how do they demonstrate it to kids how to do it correctly?
There's a lot of people throwing shade at the coaching set up in the county and I'm on record in here as saying the competitions in the county are a joke but this **** ain't easy. Especially at club level when you've got a massive varience in ability and you're trying to ensure every child is given an equal chance to maximise their potential.
The drop off in quality from minor to senior is huge because priorities change. Drink, drugs, women and the reality that there's more to life than hurling hits home so you lose a percentage through that.
People note the need for S&C to be introduced to get the young lads ready for intercounty hurling but do you realise the commitment that takes from that young lad? You're talking 3 or 4 nights a week of hard strength training which is boring as **** if you're not into it. You're going to lose a percentage because of that.
Then you've got the lads who make the minor panel because they're the best at their age. Then they go in to open senior hurling and quite frankly they just aren't good enough.
I believe the development squads are flawed. I attended a session during the summer where As and Bs trained on different fields and did two completely different sessions. Not a single thing matched. So the sessions are being left to the individuals in charge of their team rather than the county having a cohesive plan.
I believe we should have a north squad, a south squad and a city squad at the start of every year where each club sends in 3 or 4 players. Train once a week with the county, then in June its streamlined into two squads and then start again the following year with the same format. Lads continuously get chances to break into the squads every year then rather than the same lads automatically getting spots year on year.
That got very long, it's late and it may not make sense. I just ended up freestyling a bit so apologies.
Is it not a level playing field in that every other county , for any sport with under age teams, have the same problem. Those counties that manage it best have a better chance of coming out on top.
TWO POINTS on the above though:-
(1) the intensive training regime, sacrifices made, ordinary occasions/ experiences missed, etc, etc, may have very undesirable consequences down the line for some of the players. This may not surface immediately after retiring. On the radio a few days ago Richie Power, I think, commented on the attitude from , say, the hurling scouts towards very young players - egging them on and trying to convince them that they will make the Kil senior team when they are older. I interpret his point as putting unnecessary pressure and big expectations on young shoulders
(2) The above mentioned ‘level playing field ‘ actually is not that level in some cases. Ie counties with a lot of job opportunities have an advantage over those who have to travel away outside the county for work or even emigrate for it. Compare Leitrim To Dublin for example0 -
kilkennyboy wrote: »Hogan was entitled to start minor tear of a medial legment if you don't start him you can't Bring him on .if a guy passed a fitness test why wouldn't you.
Adrian Mullen had a vomiting bug on the Tuesday got a bag of fluids as a energy booster on Wednesday night. Absolutely no reason he would not play a game 4 days later.
Cillian Buckley same as hogan (personally I would have gone with Maher)but entitled to start.
Bill Sheehan failed fitness test bit different having a few pucks beforehand
To playing.
5 is nonsense and doesn't deserve a response
No one is entitled to start a match and if thats the reason as to why Hogan, Buckley and Mullen started no wonder we were hammered.
Why is 5 nonsense??
Since 2009 we have been way behind Wexford, Clare, Limerick, Galway and Cork in this age group.
Its the first decade since the 60's that we did not win an All Ireland at this level.
So what I said is not nonsense its fact.0 -
JJs Left Hand wrote: »Eoin Everard was brought in this year and gave a couple of workshops to coaches with the Kilkenny U16 squads early in the year. I believe he did more work with the squads without club coaches. All club coaches were invited to these sessions. The idea was to inform coaches on what to look out for and how to improve technique with a view to maximising a players potential speed rather than actually making them faster.
But it's EXTREMELY technical. And if you're only training twice a week trying to teach a 13/14/15 year old how to do A and B steps and not to run with their heels is difficult while also trying to do beginners strength training and hurling on top of that. The running needs to be done at nursery level and then re-taught after a child hits puberty, hits a growth spurt and their body mechanics go to pot. Then the reality is that most club coaches are parents who let's face it can't run for **** so how do they demonstrate it to kids how to do it correctly?
There's a lot of people throwing shade at the coaching set up in the county and I'm on record in here as saying the competitions in the county are a joke but this **** ain't easy. Especially at club level when you've got a massive varience in ability and you're trying to ensure every child is given an equal chance to maximise their potential.
The drop off in quality from minor to senior is huge because priorities change. Drink, drugs, women and the reality that there's more to life than hurling hits home so you lose a percentage through that.
People note the need for S&C to be introduced to get the young lads ready for intercounty hurling but do you realise the commitment that takes from that young lad? You're talking 3 or 4 nights a week of hard strength training which is boring as **** if you're not into it. You're going to lose a percentage because of that.
Then you've got the lads who make the minor panel because they're the best at their age. Then they go in to open senior hurling and quite frankly they just aren't good enough.
I believe the development squads are flawed. I attended a session during the summer where As and Bs trained on different fields and did two completely different sessions. Not a single thing matched. So the sessions are being left to the individuals in charge of their team rather than the county having a cohesive plan.
I believe we should have a north squad, a south squad and a city squad at the start of every year where each club sends in 3 or 4 players. Train once a week with the county, then in June its streamlined into two squads and then start again the following year with the same format. Lads continuously get chances to break into the squads every year then rather than the same lads automatically getting spots year on year.
That got very long, it's late and it may not make sense. I just ended up freestyling a bit so apologies.
Personally I don't have time or the inclination to go to many underage games at the minute but where I work we often hire a young lad to do some after school work and normally their into hurling and a few have been decent. The last guy we had probably should have been in with a county team in the last few years going by talking to a few lads in his club. He was the leading light and was keeping the team in games or winning most games for them putting up big scores and assists for such a young lad. Only got a call in earlier this year when one of the U16B coaches spotted him in a match, he scored 2-13 the same day 2-5 from play. They called him in, did one training session with them, came on as a sub the next day and started their games there after. He could have really benefited being in their earlier and could have been pushing for a spot on the minor panel if identified earlier.
I asked him why he didn't get called in before now and what he told me really disappointed me but didn't shock me. They've had the same father as their manager since U12's and the club always ask him to pick the lads to go into development squads. He always picked his son and 2 of his sons good friends even though (and maybe because) they weren't a patch on this lad or a few others on the team. It's really sad to see this. Although as a father you can see why he might take the opportunity to expose his lad to this environment but to continually send them in when they weren't up to it must have been hard on the lads themselves. This same club is absolutely struggling and if they continue to treat their players like this that will continue.
Personally I think if there isn't already there should be a scouting panel of 30 to 40 ex players drawn up and they need to see each team at least twice. Not every member of the scouting panel but at least 5 of them. Now this panel should be made of ex senior intercounty players not just hurlers on the ditch like myself. I also believe those same lads or some of the ex senior players anyway need to be coaching the development squads. That was the original idea, that the ex players got involved and brough on these young lads I don't think there are too many ex senior intercounty players hands on these days with development squads and I think this is a major flaw in the system.
If we can't put together a scouting panel we should get each team management to rate the oppositions top 5 players 1 to 5 after every match. These are all sent into the development squad management who can then easily see a guy who is top rated over a series of games not just what a coach who may not like his family (we all know that stuff goes on in clubs) thinks of him.
I also have wondered is there a file on each of these players that the county board controls? I doubt it personally but I think there should be. You would put down basic information like height, weight, lefthanded/righthanded, hurling hand, position played, injury history, willingness to train, attendance, weaknesses, strengths, S&C programs completed, etc etc. So when a new coach gets appointed or a new batch of players, they have a file on each player and they can add to it and pass it on. Then when Brian Cody or whoever is manager he has a file on that players development before he even starts to work with him. He can obviously form his own opinion of him but it would be a far more comprehensive way of doing it than just (and it's very important) watching a lad up along but our brains are very good at lying to us and confirmation bias is all too easy to believe. This system would give a player a fair shot as he is being graded and judged by multiple people over the years. Only the best and most dedicated will rise to the top but we would hopefully minimise those who currently fall through the cracks. It could also open up a place to a lad who had impressed up to a certain age and then was no longer part of the system for a few years. If say the U20 management identified we need a certain type of player they could quickly go through all the players who had ever been in the system and are at that age level and identify what parameters their looking for, key those in and call a lad back in who may have been forgotten about. Just an idea.0 -
JohnCougar wrote: »No one is entitled to start a match and if thats the reason as to why Hogan, Buckley and Mullen started no wonder we were hammered.
Why is 5 nonsense??
Since 2009 we have been way behind Wexford, Clare, Limerick, Galway and Cork in this age group.
Its the first decade since the 60's that we did not win an All Ireland at this level.
So what I said is not nonsense its fact.
I'm not sure if you have ever trained a team or been a involved in management.
But I can tell you the amount of times you would be asked about different guys and the guy you would be asked about Wouldn't be even in the reckoning.
Unless you are at every training session and practice match it's a different mentality
To the guys in the inner circle so I'm always slow to pick teams on rumours .
5 was in relation to physical strength and it's not tug of war we are at they are strong enough.unless you are planning a breeding program akin to coolmore I don't know what the county board can do.
If its hurling fair enough we haven't had a real stand out forward on a minor team for a few years.even in saying that we are still after finding Donnelly and Mullen
And Lawler who look a cut above0 -
tbiggertycome wrote: »Personally I don't have time or the inclination to go to many underage games at the minute but where I work we often hire a young lad to do some after school work and normally their into hurling and a few have been decent. The last guy we had probably should have been in with a county team in the last few years going by talking to a few lads in his club. He was the leading light and was keeping the team in games or winning most games for them putting up big scores and assists for such a young lad. Only got a call in earlier this year when one of the U16B coaches spotted him in a match, he scored 2-13 the same day 2-5 from play. They called him in, did one training session with them, came on as a sub the next day and started their games there after. He could have really benefited being in their earlier and could have been pushing for a spot on the minor panel if identified earlier.
I asked him why he didn't get called in before now and what he told me really disappointed me but didn't shock me. They've had the same father as their manager since U12's and the club always ask him to pick the lads to go into development squads. He always picked his son and 2 of his sons good friends even though (and maybe because) they weren't a patch on this lad or a few others on the team. It's really sad to see this. Although as a father you can see why he might take the opportunity to expose his lad to this environment but to continually send them in when they weren't up to it must have been hard on the lads themselves. This same club is absolutely struggling and if they continue to treat their players like this that will continue.
Personally I think if there isn't already there should be a scouting panel of 30 to 40 ex players drawn up and they need to see each team at least twice. Not every member of the scouting panel but at least 5 of them. Now this panel should be made of ex senior intercounty players not just hurlers on the ditch like myself. I also believe those same lads or some of the ex senior players anyway need to be coaching the development squads. That was the original idea, that the ex players got involved and brough on these young lads I don't think there are too many ex senior intercounty players hands on these days with development squads and I think this is a major flaw in the system.
If we can't put together a scouting panel we should get each team management to rate the oppositions top 5 players 1 to 5 after every match. These are all sent into the development squad management who can then easily see a guy who is top rated over a series of games not just what a coach who may not like his family (we all know that stuff goes on in clubs) thinks of him.
I also have wondered is there a file on each of these players that the county board controls? I doubt it personally but I think there should be. You would put down basic information like height, weight, lefthanded/righthanded, hurling hand, position played, injury history, willingness to train, attendance, weaknesses, strengths, S&C programs completed, etc etc. So when a new coach gets appointed or a new batch of players, they have a file on each player and they can add to it and pass it on. Then when Brian Cody or whoever is manager he has a file on that players development before he even starts to work with him. He can obviously form his own opinion of him but it would be a far more comprehensive way of doing it than just (and it's very important) watching a lad up along but our brains are very good at lying to us and confirmation bias is all too easy to believe. This system would give a player a fair shot as he is being graded and judged by multiple people over the years. Only the best and most dedicated will rise to the top but we would hopefully minimise those who currently fall through the cracks. It could also open up a place to a lad who had impressed up to a certain age and then was no longer part of the system for a few years. If say the U20 management identified we need a certain type of player they could quickly go through all the players who had ever been in the system and are at that age level and identify what parameters their looking for, key those in and call a lad back in who may have been forgotten about. Just an idea.
Very well said and you have hit the nail on the head as regards the development squads and clubs sending in players not up to it and the better players not being sent in.
The development squad system in Kilkenny has gone stale and regimented. They are coaching the natural ability out of players. There are not enough technically minded coaches involved in the squads.
The people over the the development squad system are good administrators at best and not hurling people with hurling knowledge and to be able to adapt to the changes in the way hurling is now being played.
Most of the managers with development squads get the roles because they have big jobs or are school teachers.
All these development squads, U-17 squads and U-20 squads spend way too much time together to the detriment of the late developer players back with their clubs as these late developers do not play enough games.
There are not enough games for U-13, U-15, U-17, U-19 players in Kilkenny.
My nephew will play u-13 soccer this year and he will play at least 20/22 competitive games from September to April
He plays in the B Championship this year in hurling and he will play around 10 games if they go well in the league and championship.
10 hurling matches is not enough if we want to develop players. Also these games are not regular and are called off at ease. There is no structure on the whole system.
I have heard that the U-13 A hurling league final on today was only organised on Thursday by the Co. Board. Surely thats madness and not fair on players and parents if they had other plans for the weekend.
There needs to be a review of the whole set up.0 -
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JJs Left Hand wrote: »Eoin Everard was brought in this year and gave a couple of workshops to coaches with the Kilkenny U16 squads early in the year. I believe he did more work with the squads without club coaches. All club coaches were invited to these sessions. The idea was to inform coaches on what to look out for and how to improve technique with a view to maximising a players potential speed rather than actually making them faster.
But it's EXTREMELY technical. And if you're only training twice a week trying to teach a 13/14/15 year old how to do A and B steps and not to run with their heels is difficult while also trying to do beginners strength training and hurling on top of that. The running needs to be done at nursery level and then re-taught after a child hits puberty, hits a growth spurt and their body mechanics go to pot. Then the reality is that most club coaches are parents who let's face it can't run for **** so how do they demonstrate it to kids how to do it correctly?
There's a lot of people throwing shade at the coaching set up in the county and I'm on record in here as saying the competitions in the county are a joke but this **** ain't easy. Especially at club level when you've got a massive varience in ability and you're trying to ensure every child is given an equal chance to maximise their potential.
The drop off in quality from minor to senior is huge because priorities change. Drink, drugs, women and the reality that there's more to life than hurling hits home so you lose a percentage through that.
People note the need for S&C to be introduced to get the young lads ready for intercounty hurling but do you realise the commitment that takes from that young lad? You're talking 3 or 4 nights a week of hard strength training which is boring as **** if you're not into it. You're going to lose a percentage because of that.
Then you've got the lads who make the minor panel because they're the best at their age. Then they go in to open senior hurling and quite frankly they just aren't good enough.
I believe the development squads are flawed. I attended a session during the summer where As and Bs trained on different fields and did two completely different sessions. Not a single thing matched. So the sessions are being left to the individuals in charge of their team rather than the county having a cohesive plan.
I believe we should have a north squad, a south squad and a city squad at the start of every year where each club sends in 3 or 4 players. Train once a week with the county, then in June its streamlined into two squads and then start again the following year with the same format. Lads continuously get chances to break into the squads every year then rather than the same lads automatically getting spots year on year.
That got very long, it's late and it may not make sense. I just ended up freestyling a bit so apologies.
I understand the technical side re: sprinting. All I'm saying is employing a sprinting coach would be a good idea. Working with the various age groups throughout the winter and spring etc.
Need to start thinking outside the box.
Also, would it not be a good idea to have another team in the Celtic Challange? - a great competition which finishes mid/end June.0 -
I feared getting to u20 final as it was fixed for nowlan park if we were to play tipp.
Garth Brooks was right unanswered prayers.0 -
Tipp forwards are a joy to watch. Seymour looks magic0
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They are really able to produce top class forwards in Tipp. One point Liam Sheedy said about Tipp during half time was the energy, movement and off the shoulder play from the forwards was a joy to see. Kilkenny are really lacking in these areas at all levels. We are falling further behind0
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Terrific Tipp team. As a matter of interest I saw Kilkenny play that Tipp team in an annual tournament match a few months ago. A marvellous match between them with Tipp just shading it at the end.
Unfortunately our forwards never performed against Cork in the semi final.0 -
We’ve a good squad with plenty of competition for places. If we can get a good game plan and can mix it up (not going route 1 all day), we can challenge.
If we get the right mix on the field working together, KK will match any team.
I think any of these players in these positions could start in championship 2020.....
GOAL
Murphy, Brennan, R. Reid.
FULL BACKS
Murphy, Lawlor, T. Walsh, Deegan, C. Delaney, D Mullen
HALF BACKS
P. Walsh, Deegan, Fogarty, Holden, C.Delaney, Buckley, Cleere, R Reid
MIDFIELD
Fogarty, Browne, Maher, Leahy, Blanchfield, R Reid, TJ???
HALF FORWARDS
TJ, Wally, Donnelly, Leahy, Fennelly, Mullen, B Ryan, Blanchfield, Mossy, K Kelly.
FULL FORWARDS
TJ, Wally, Fennelly, Aylward, Mullen, Donnelly, B Ryan, Hogan,Sheehan.0 -
If there is any suggestion that the referee was told by anyone other that the linesman and/or umpires about the Hogan red card then it should be appealed.
I do think it was a red card but the rules do not allow for VAR or TMO or whatever and if that was used to influence the decision then Kilkenny have a right to know and a right to appeal.
The Hawkeye one is completely wrong as well. The rule is the whole of the ball has to pass over the line. If Hawkeye merely judges whether it crossed the line and it cannot separate a players hand from the ball then it cannot give a point.0 -
JJs Left Hand wrote: »I don't think you could say we were physically behind at U20 this year. Serious strength and conditioning work was done with that panel and you could tell they're all big strong men for their age.
Our problem throughout the age grades continues to be speed. And you can talk about S&C all you like but you're either fast or you're not. All about the breeding there.
Hard to know about the speed issue. Cork would have quite a few speed merchants in their team, but it didn’t make a massive different to them.
I think creating space is more important than raw speed.
I think the current Tipp forwards are very good at this, very wristy in tight spaces.
In fairness Adrian Mullen and TJ Reid are excellent at it aswel, as is/was a fully fit Richie Hogan.0 -
Any chance that Croke Park officials will give us the actual situation . Would any sports reporter take up the issue. Might sell more papers on the day if it made headlines.” GAA Line Dancing”. Forget it. I have it. Raise it on Lavh Lahn and away we go. Joe will surely get to the end of the line with a clear conclusionIf there is any suggestion that the referee was told by anyone other that the linesman and/or umpires about the Hogan red card then it should be appealed.
I do think it was a red card but the rules do not allow for VAR or TMO or whatever and if that was used to influence the decision then Kilkenny have a right to know and a right to appeal.
The Hawkeye one is completely wrong as well. The rule is the whole of the ball has to pass over the line. If Hawkeye merely judges whether it crossed the line and it cannot separate a players hand from the ball then it cannot give a point.0 -
Field east wrote: »Any chance that Croke Park officials will give us the actual situation . Would any sports reporter take up the issue. Might sell more papers on the day if it made headlines.” GAA Line Dancing”. Forget it. I have it. Raise it on Lavh Lahn and away we go. Joe will surely get to the end of the line with a clear conclusion
Bring back ‘sports call’ or whatever that whinge programmer was called that Des Cahill used to host on a Monday evening on rte radio 1 about 18/20 years ago......it got a lot of issues highlighted and sorted0 -
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Deegan is nowhere near good enough with the sliotar to be half back. Corner back maybe.
Murphy is wasted at corner back.
I've never been a fan of Fogarty in any position. Just not good enough.0 -
Tbf lads I think it’s time to let the red card go.
The footage speaks for itself.
Reading the posts here is like reading the tipp thread over the previous years when we were short. Everything is wrong, manager, players structures, underage......
I remember we got an unmerciful hiding in 2012, but came back in 2013 and were competitive in Nolan Park. Any team can have a misfire. It hasn’t happened ye too often.
Fact is that up to a certain stage the cats were in the driving seat in an all Ireland final, having beaten cork and limerick.
Ye’re not too far away ( unfortunately). I believe that the biggest issues were selecting players not fully fit and lumping the ball into crowded areas outside the tipp defensive ‘d’. While Cody is the greatest manager of all time I doubt a John Kiely or a Davy Fitz would have persisted with that tactic for so long.
Tj Reid is the best player in the country bar none and probably one of the all time greats. There’s nothing he can’t do. Think a fit and in form aylward is another man with star potential.
There’s plenty examples of successful underage sides not translating to senior success.
I fancy limerick to win out next year. Can’t imagine cork will be down much longer either given what they’re doing at underage and sheer strength of numbers.0 -
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Lefty Bicek wrote: »You're missing the point.
Precisely. I said it before in a previous post - if, after considering all available advice, Richie Hogan wishes to pursue an appeal, he's perfectly entitled to do so. It will be then up to the CCCC to decide and not journalists, posters or anybody else.
Almost everybody was of the opinion that it wasn't a red card at first. It was only when they looked at four different angles they changed their minds. The ref and his officials didn't have the benefit of videos and in slow motion. The CCCC will and will also have other related evidence such as discussions between the ref and others on the day.0 -
Precisely. I said it before in a previous post - if, after considering all available advice, Richie Hogan wishes to pursue an appeal, he's perfectly entitled to do so. It will be then up to the CCCC to decide and not journalists, posters or anybody else.
Almost everybody was of the opinion that it wasn't a red card at first. It was only when they looked at four different angles they changed their minds. The ref and his officials didn't have the benefit of videos and in slow motion. The CCCC will and will also have other related evidence such as discussions between the ref and others on the day.
As I said before this is nothing to do with tipp they are worthy champs
This is more about galway and wexford next June.
I don't think the ccc will bring any evidence my understanding of how this works
And it's a bit outdated in my opinion.
The only evidence the ccc can use is a match report from the referee.
And it has to be from memory he can't check back and make his decision.
If video evidence is to be used it has to be introduced by the defense then it can be considered. If the county board receives the report and if its wording is not in line with what actually happened. Smallest details get these rescinded..
For example striking with the elbow then it has to be a strike with the elbow if
It's not clear whether it was elbow or shoulder. Tossed out
The problem the gaa have is they are dealing with a 100 year old rule book
Being defended by club officers. Against trained barristers who go after details.0 -
What's to stop a ref completing his report after viewing TV and listening to opinions late Sunday night or on the following day? When is a report sent in?0
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What's to stop a ref completing his report after viewing TV and listening to opinions late Sunday night or on the following day? When is a report sent in?
Probably very little.county board should have it by the Wednesday. But the same rules have to apply for the lads playing a junior A final in nowlan park as a all Ireland. Sometimes there will be no video evidence
And its very difficult to overturn.
It will be interesting to see what the charge is
Striking or attempting to strike possible or
Dangerous play is difficult to defend as its vague.
Cleverer men than me will be looking at it.
But in general appeals nearly always get it rescinded.0 -
The fourth camera shot showed the head bang and that would have been a similar angle the ref hadPrecisely. I said it before in a previous post - if, after considering all available advice, Richie Hogan wishes to pursue an appeal, he's perfectly entitled to do so. It will be then up to the CCCC to decide and not journalists, posters or anybody else.
Almost everybody was of the opinion that it wasn't a red card at first. It was only when they looked at four different angles they changed their minds. The ref and his officials didn't have the benefit of videos and in slow motion. The CCCC will and will also have other related evidence such as discussions between the ref and others on the day.0 -
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