Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

The_Ghost

The backs do deserve criticism for their continuous poor delivery into the forwards but our forwards movement doesn’t help them one bit. The diagonal ball across only works if the forward makes a run into the space.

Fred Daly

The_Ghost wrote: »

The backs do deserve criticism for their continuous poor delivery into the forwards but our forwards movement doesn’t help them one bit. The diagonal ball across only works if the forward makes a run into the space.

Would you not put that down to a problem with the coaching then, the way the ball was been put down on the half forwards last Saturday was shocking.

The_Ghost

Yes 100% it is down to coaching, it’d be different if the forwards were moving and making space and not getting the ball but more often than not it’s a long aimless ball that we try win then start moving. Once we won the ball the forwards linked well enough I thought. Was hoping DJ would have an impact on how we play but that wasn’t the case Saturday. The forwards need to move more and the backs need better balls in. What’s most annoying is we’ve 6 good forwards who can score and a bunch of good hurlers capable of playing a slightly varied style.

brookville

I suppose we wont know till the galway game where we are really at.We were very good up to the last quarter particularly but the finish is a big worry.Whats really dissapointing is we had no one to stand up and stop the tide turning.We drove a few wides and tj dropped a free to finish that game but we left the door open.We had the water breaks to get ourselves together.We just can not adopt to playing against a sweeper and revert to lumping in ball.
Galway had their homework done Saturday and kevin foley was ineffective.If that was us we would of made him man of the match.Ballyhale face a sweeper nearly every day and work around it.
We will see a few changes the next day joey could come back Delaney got caught out and is better suited out further.I wouldnt have deegan at 6.We need to get midfield right cause mannion absolutely destroyed us last year.brian concannon and conor Whelan wont miss much.That match should bring us on and we are going into the leinster final as underdogs.We need to win leinster to show progress.We got 3 goals and created a few more it's being a while since that happened.We all know the last 20 minutes weren't acceptable so we will see what kind of response we get the next day.

BQQ

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but there might have been an element of keeping our cards close to our chest re: dealing with the sweeper (or not as the case was)

Garyp88

BQQ wrote: »

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but there might have been an element of keeping our cards close to our chest re: dealing with the sweeper (or not as the case was)

The answer is we can't deal with or know how to play a sweeper if Dublin had improved then maybe so but to get level and lose by a point is poor. It was a mix of thinking the game was won at half time, no second half motivation, poor tactics and heads dropped. Fact is complacency set in if I was Galway I'd be rubbing my hands

Grats

While our tactic of lumping the ball in on top of the forwards worked a treat in the first half, it was a disaster in the second half. Was it all down to Dublin's tactic, or were there other reasons?

We were flying in that first half and to a man fell flat in the second half. Could this be down to fitness management? We do have a new fitness coach, plus we/he had a most unusual build up to the championship to deal with. What was our pre match warm up like? Did we overdo it and sap the energy levels? It's certainly worth analysing and I expect Cody will do.

There has to be an explanation for the lethargic display after half time when they were so full of energy in the first half. When a brilliant player like TJ was struggling, by his standards, then there has to be a good reason for it.

Garyp88

Grats wrote: »

While our tactic of lumping the ball in on top of the forwards worked a treat in the first half, it was a disaster in the second half. Was it all down to Dublin's tactic, or were there other reasons?

We were flying in that first half and to a man fell flat in the second half. Could this be down to fitness management? We do have a new fitness coach, plus we/he had a most unusual build up to the championship to deal with. What was our pre match warm up like? Did we overdo it and sap the energy levels? It's certainly worth analysing and I expect Cody will do.

There has to be an explanation for the lethargic display after half time when they were so full of energy in the first half. When a brilliant player like TJ was struggling, by his standards, then there has to be a good reason for it.

Maybe past kilkenny teams know how to win and be clinical this team went flat and slack. A 25 point win wouldn't have done anything but neither is clinging on for a 1 point win. I think the likes of limerick and Galway look bigger and fitter more emphasis is now on strength and conditioning. There running and movement game is miles ahead of kilkenny and that must be cascading from the top

Grats

Garyp88 wrote: »

Maybe past kilkenny teams know how to win and be clinical this team went flat and slack. A 25 point win wouldn't have done anything but neither is clinging on for a 1 point win. I think the likes of limerick and Galway look bigger and fitter more emphasis is now on strength and conditioning. There running and movement game is miles ahead of kilkenny and that must be cascading from the top

We beat Limerick last year. That's not to say I'm suggesting everything is okay. It isn't. We badly need a plan B, or preferably let plan A of lumping balls, be plan B!!!

Garyp88

Grats wrote: »

We beat Limerick last year. That's not to say I'm suggesting everything is okay. It isn't. We badly need a plan B, or preferably let plan A of lumping balls, be plan B!!!

We shocked limerick with a quick start and shook them up they will be far more clinical after that we don't learn from our mistakes. Last few times we have met Galway they have beat us easy apart from a drawn leinster final and we had the chances as they were awful and again not clinical. I think we have ran out of ideas at the top hurling has evolved kilkenny haven't that's the point of it

Grats

Garyp88 wrote: »

We shocked limerick with a quick start and shook them up they will be far more clinical after that we don't learn from our mistakes. Last few times we have met Galway they have beat us easy apart from a drawn leinster final and we had the chances as they were awful and again not clinical. I think we have ran out of ideas at the top hurling has evolved kilkenny haven't that's the point of it

I agree we badly need an urgent change going forward.

But back to Saturday, why did so many, if not all, fall so flat after half time.

kilkennyboy

Garyp88 wrote: »

Just want to run an idea and get opinions off people so don't have a go but do people think it's time for a change at the top. The reason I say this is things look stale, no plan bs and as the game is evolving kilkenny are not despite have some technically gifted players. Was listening to the Sunday game and they was saying that mickey harte up in Tyrone had basically ran out of ideas despite having a good panel and it's time to move on.

I just wonder if the same could be in kilkenny. I'm not calling for the axe but would a change of ideas and heads result in our game developing. Limerick and Wexford were in dire straights a few years ago and since John kiely and davy have gone in they've improved greatly and evolved a style which suits there players and gameplan. Kilkenny however seem to be lost in that they want to achieve and haven't really kicked on or have a plan b. The game has changed alot in the last few years yet we don't seem to have. You look at the level of hurling limerick, tipp, Wexford and Galway play and its streets ahead of what we have, even clare on there day are a joy to watch were we always look rushed and not composed.

Like I say it's just a thought but our brand of hurling is not great. I know these are testing times etc and not ideal but this has been round abit.

To be fair gorta was brought in and carey to bring new ideas after making a big impression in carlow.ourselves and tipp play a similar style but they lack a half forward line.Galway didn't get out of leinster last year
So lets wait and see can they back up the wexford performance who looked completely flat.limerick look the real deal at the moment but i think the defense is vulnerable. Nash will be targeted and they don't have much cover when hayes has to be moved back wingback..
We are only 1 game in if we do lose a leinster final we would be on course to meet tipp in a 1/4 final and limerick in a simi.us and galway are the only ones could live with limerick.

Garyp88

kilkennyboy wrote: »

To be fair gorta was brought in and carey to bring new ideas after making a big impression in carlow.ourselves and tipp play a similar style but they lack a half forward line.Galway didn't get out of leinster last year
So lets wait and see can they back up the wexford performance who looked completely flat.limerick look the real deal at the moment but i think the defense is vulnerable. Nash will be targeted and they don't have much cover when hayes has to be moved back wingback..
We are only 1 game in if we do lose a leinster final we would be on course to meet tipp in a 1/4 final and limerick in a simi.us and galway are the only ones could live with limerick.

I hope I'm wrong but if the backs give the like likes of cathal mannion, Connor whelen and conconnan space they will run riot and the game is over they turn defences over and cause problems after Saturday it will be a struggle.

kilkennyboy

Think he will go back with joey for Wallace and Browne could come in for mobility in midfield.

Garyp88

I also think brennan from the village should have been brought in he had a great club championship and so young

lim4ev

Grats wrote: »

I agree we badly need an urgent change going forward.

But back to Saturday, why did so many, if not all, fall so flat after half time.

In my opinion they didn't fall flat they just switched off they were so far ahead,it can happen and then it's hard to flick the switch to get it going again. I think the leinster final is going to be very close theres arguments on both side's to see who will win Galway looked impressive but wexford looked flat.

kilkennyboy

Garyp88 wrote: »

I also think brennan from the village should have been brought in he had a great club championship and so young

Kenny ?

Garyp88

Would like to see Darren Mullen or delaney at 6, Pádraig at 5 deegen or Young Walsh at 5 with lawlor at 3. Think browne should be in the midfield. If brassil was better distributing out he could be around the starting lads. We need like a cian lynch in the engine room which I think brennan would bring

Garyp88

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Kenny ?

Sorry my mistake yeah cian Kenny got 0-3 against ballyhale I also liked the look of guilfoyle and dwyer

kilkennyboy

Garyp88 wrote: »

Sorry my mistake is there a cian Kenny and a ciaran brennan one did great for the village in midfield if you could clarify this

Cian kenny great year only done leaving this year

Garyp88

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Cian kenny great year only done leaving this year

I'd like to see more of the younger players around the panel to give them a taste and pick up on experience, Limerick have done this great with flannagan, Hayes and gillane so have Galway with Evan niland and concanncon I actually thought there goalkeeper played very well too

Grats

lim4ev wrote: »

In my opinion they didn't fall flat they just switched off they were so far ahead......... but wexford looked flat.

In your opinion Kilkenny didn't fall flat but Wexford did. I take your word for it because I'm not sure how to differentiate.

JJs Left Hand

https://twitter.com/RCAnalysis/status/1323685753860345856?s=19

Not good reading for our own puck outs

Grats

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RCAnalysis/status/1323685753860345856?s=19

Not good reading for our own puck outs

It doesn't take a statistician to tell us about puck outs won/lost. Without even looking at the stats my guess is that we won much more in first half than the second. Hence our lack of scores in that second half.

dastardly00

Grats wrote: »

It doesn't take a statistician to tell us about puck outs won/lost. Without even looking at the stats my guess is that we won much more in first half than the second. Hence our lack of scores in that second half.

But yet the KK management appear to continue with that tactic

Grats

dastardly00 wrote: »

But yet the KK management appear to continue with that tactic

I'm not disputing that at all. Just saying that it was obvious, watching the match, that we weren't winning puck outs in the second half. And yes, management could see that too and did make 5 changes which didn't particularly rectify the problem. They should have changed the puck out strategy.

JJs Left Hand

We didn't win many of our puck outs in the 1st half either

Realt Dearg Sec

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

We didn't win many of our puck outs in the 1st half either

Exactly, we were picking up breaks off the puck outs, and that stopped when Dublin dropped a man back. We had no ideas then, as if this whole sweeper thing dropped from the clear blue sky like a Kilkenny clearance, and we'd never seen it before. Amazing that with 14 months to think about what to do when confronted with a sweeper, our solution remains "win your own ball". The club championships showed us several KK club teams are playing much more sophisticated hurling than our county team at this point, including Ballyhale.

I'm not sure I'm on the "Cody out" train, but in fairness, you can only keep hoping that new faces in the backroom team will freshen things up for so long, before accepting that selectors are basically window dressing around here.

robwen

https://twitter.com/HurlerD/status/1323681076318031872?s=19

blackcard

Garyp88 wrote: »

Would like to see Darren Mullen or delaney at 6, Pádraig at 5 deegen or Young Walsh at 5 with lawlor at 3. Think browne should be in the midfield. If brassil was better distributing out he could be around the starting lads. We need like a cian lynch in the engine room which I think brennan would bring

I have never seen Darren Mullen play at 6, he is good at distributing the ball and hoovering up but is not a great fielder of the ball or particularly fast