Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

babyjesus14

mullinr2 wrote: »

Could also agrue that the Galway team is better than 6 years ago too

I don't think there is any doubt about that, making comparisons with 2012 even less relevant!

dubcat51

The point is on any given day anything can happen.its not so much about galway.coek have beaten clare on another day that can be reversed.after 2016 final v tipp I dont think they have beat us since.yes galway are the team to beat but xan be beaten.if we were to win through v lim and cork we would be in a good place going into a final.big if

Powerhouse

dubcat51 wrote: »

The point is on any given day anything can happen.

This makes no sense. Offaly, Waterford and Tipperary all played four matches in the current championship and failed to win any. I doubt you would claim that was a complete freakish occurrence? But if “anything can happen on a given day” they should surely win the odd time? Galway are now 11 games unbeaten in the championship. In the same timeframe Kilkenny have also played 11 championship games and won only four. There are patterns if you look closely. It is not an exercise in randomness on a given day.

dubcat51

Offaly no bur tipp and fully fit injury free waterford team could on any given day beat anyone IMO.tipp where fancied by many before championship started.clare are still there and tipp should have beaten them.

Powerhouse

dubcat51 wrote: »

Offaly no bur tipp and fully fit injury free waterford team could on any given day beat anyone IMO.tipp where fancied by many before championship started.clare are still there and tipp should have beaten them.

If Waterford (and/or Tipperary) "could on any given day beat anyone" how come they are both sitting on a record of Played 5 Won 0 in their last five championship games? Any if anything can happen on any given day why exclude Offaly? Is that not an acceptance that ability does matter?

tbiggertycome

Yeah I was hopeful that we could turn it up a notch or two and hold back the tide that Galway would unleash on us and if we could have kept it close I thought we could finish stronger. Other than the first 5 minutes of the first half and the first 20mins of the second half Galway had our number all day. I do however think that they game could have played out differently if a few things had a gone our way, but they didn't and Galway looked very impressive. Unfortunately with a young team like ours your going to get days like we had over the last two Sundays. One day they will play up to their potential and the next day will be off by a few percent and when you ally that with a team like Galway who were in no mood to mess around then you can get games like last Sunday. Galway are clearly better than us at the minute but I do think they're beatable (pause for Powerhouse to ask where the evidence is) It will take a team playing at their best but I think we showed the first day out how to beat them if our forwards were a bit more experienced and back in form after injury that game would have been won in normal time.

Last Sunday I think the losing of the match was our midfield in the first half, I know this is very harsh on the lads involved but for me the let Coen and particularly David Burke absolutely run the show. However Burke in particular wasn't working in midfield he was doing it in Galways half back line. Every ball we sent forward he was either sweeping around the ruck picking it up or waiting just 4 to 5 yards away for the pass to drive forward. Maher and Fogarty sat way off them, where as the previous week they were up in their face when they got this kind of ball. This lack of pressure in that facet of our game completely opened us up. Burke and Coen had loads of time to pick out forwards moving where as the previous week they hadn't a second. It's interesting the time we got on top for a sustained period both Maher and Fogarty pushed up much higher up the field. I also wonder if some of our younger lads believed a bit of their own hype about how well they played. This is a very dangerous attitude to have and I can think of one forward in particular who looked like he was playing that way, he thought thing would just happen for him. In fairness though the work rate out of most of our lads was top class again it just looked like they started to play the game differently particularly in midfield but also when the Galway half forwards pulled out to create loads of space for their FF line. They had done this the previous week too but the ball in was poor because of the pressure on their backs their midfield alleviated that pressure through tonnes of hard work and when we started to get a hold of them they had subs to freshen up the middle third and they kicked on again in fairness to them. I now think the wisdom of dropping Ollie Walsh looks very short sighted. I think he could have done a good job in that game as James Maher was out on his feet with 15 to go after the huge effort he put in. We had taken off Richie Leahy who did very little and had no other midfielder to throw in.

I'd be on the fence about Sunday. I think our biggest issue will be to pick themselves up mentally after two very intense days. I think if we can get our heads straight we have every chance. I would expect to see a good few changes to the starting 15 based on lads condition.

I'd suggest something like
Murphy
Murphy Walsh Deegan
Holden Buckley Cleere
Fogarty Maher (Leahy to come in when Maher tires)
Hogan TJ Mossy
Scanlon Fennelly Aylward

Now I have no idea where lads are in terms of recovery but I would suggest that he'll do very little tampering with the backs or midfield and try and rejuvenate the forwards as much as possible. Again as long as we keep it close and don't give ourselves a big lead to chase down, I reckon we'll win it. If the forwards click we could win well. However being realistic and their form to date I'd worry about what they'll score. So we need to keep Limerick quite at the other end which won't be easy but if we could do it to Galway we can definitely do it to this Limerick team.

Powerhouse

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Galway are clearly better than us at the minute but I do think they're beatable (pause for Powerhouse to ask where the evidence is)

With respect, saying a team is “beatable” is so devoid of meaning that evidence doesn’t come into it. The words do nothing more than fill space. Nobody to my ears anyway has claimed that they are unbeatable. The question of who has shown a realistic capacity to do so is another matter. Anyone nominating Kilkenny as a potential candidate does have reason to fear the matter of evidence being questioned alright! There seemed to be an awful lot of wishful thinking here regarding predictions of the Leinster final and replay anyway.

blackcard

I think we need to freshen things up so I would go with the following team.
Murphy
Murphy Delaney Deegan
Walsh Cleere Buckley
Leahy Maher
Donnelly Hogan Reid
Aylward Fennelly Scanlon

Fogarty Ryan Blanchfield to come on as subs.
Walsh Buckley and Leahy playing in their best position. Leahy to help contest both teams puckouts. Richie Hogan had played only 50 minutes in the last nine months prior to last Sunday and is improving in every game.

dubcat51

My team is a fit
Murphy
Murphy
Lennon
Deegan
Padtaig
Clerere
Buckley
Leahy
Maher
Walter
Richie
Tj
Kevin kelly
Colin
Ger

Dont think it has a chance of starting but woukd be mine if all fit.hopefully walter and kevin kelly might be fit

brookville

while it would be very hard to guess a team for sunday I do expect a few changes to freshen things up.I wouldnt be suprised to see a lad like conor browne or cleere start.Cody said the other day kevin kelly is very nearly ready to making the squad although it would be hard to expect much from him after missing so much although we wouldnt of beaten limerick last year without him.
Its very unlikely Walter will be available by the sounds of things but id say scanlon will be close to starting and id probably start mossy.

The_Ghost

Heard Blanch could barely walk after the game with blisters on his feet. Hopefully the players arnt too broke up and recover mentally as well as physically. Id love to know how much shots we take from play compared to other teams because to me it looks like way less but I might be well wrong. Other teams seem to get their scores easier while we have to work hard for ours. This may be down to the fact that we don't know our best team and it's constantly changing but we are in transition.

Team I'd like to see:
Murphy
Murphy Walsh Deegan
Holden Buckly Delaney
Maher Fogery
Keoghan Hogan TJ
Alyward Fennelly Donnolly

I'd leave the midfield the same; they were poor in the first half the last day alright but thought they both had much better second halfs. Keoghan for work rate and legs. Hogan and Fennelly just have to start. I'd give donnolly another go and then Spring leahy scanlon and Blanchfeild in the second half. Limerick also have strong bench so hopefully we are fully prepared.

I'd like to see Delaney but doubt he'll play. Same with Cleere but Cody seems to prefer Lennon and I can't see why.

usualstripes

After soaking in the last few days there are a few glaring points.

1) We were absolutely blown out of it for the 1st 20 mins. It's hard to know why our half forward line pushed right in for that period. Most of our puckouts were being contested by at least 6 players. Galway won the physical battles here. It's only when we pulled our half forward line out to their 65 we started to gain possession by leaving space in front of our full forward line.
2) because of galways dominance for this period our midfielders were being dragged all over the field. Such was the pressure. Our half back line was also dragged out too far enabling their inside line to clean up. When we pulled out our half forward line we had much more possession.
3) Walter was a savage loss. He mustn't have been right from the start. A few high jumps and lost possessions was the sum.of his involvement. It's doubtful he will make limerick match.
4) The comeback. What an effort. We went from 12 points down to 1 point down, had three chances of scores including Scanlons dropped attempt at a catch outside the square at that stage. If we had gone into the lead it might have been different buy these are the fine margins and galway subsuquently steadied their ship.
Looking at some of our players at this stage they were flogged. At one stage Maher couldn't even run out the field for their puckout but it was some effort.
5) Galways ability to get into space, collect and pop overr the bar. It's just not happening for us right now but it will come.

On to limerick. A tough ask for our lads but I've no doubt they will give 110%. With 1-9 staying the same we will have a combination of hogan tj leahy fennelly mossy and aylward there with Donnelly Scanlon and possibly Billy Ryan starting again. I'm not cock sure of winning but would certainly give ourselves more tha n a 50/50 shot. Of we come out the other side then anything's a possibility. One thing though Leahy will need to be brought out to the middle if fogarty not performing or Leahy himself not performing on the half forward line.

Hawkeye6

Powerhouse wrote: »

With respect, saying a team is “beatable” is so devoid of meaning that evidence doesn’t come into it. The words do nothing more than fill space. Nobody to my ears anyway has claimed that they are unbeatable. The question of who has shown a realistic capacity to do so is another matter. Anyone nominating Kilkenny as a potential candidate does have reason to fear the matter of evidence being questioned alright! There seemed to be an awful lot of wishful thinking here regarding predictions of the Leinster final and replay anyway.

What county are you from?

Mocker

Team for Limerick:

Murphy

Murphy Delaney Deegan

Walsh Buckley Cleere

Fogarty Maher

Walsh Hogan Reid

Donnelly Fennelly Alyward

Leahy to come on midfield when game opens up in 2nd half.
Keoghan or Blanch for Walter if he's not fit.

Reasons for this team:
1. Pure hurling half back line - P Walsh would add significant go forward approach & Cleere is class. They would serve forwards with quality precise ball
2. Delaney is the future for fullback (was one of best defenders in league - unlucky to be dropped)
3. Hogan/Fennelly should be close to full sharpness - Hogan roaming around influencing game from pivotal position. Size of Fennelly & goal poaching instinct critical at 14.
4. Walter if fit is best on the wing in middle of the exchanges & running at backs
5 Donnelly & Alyward buzzing around for scores. (Scanlon & Ryan to come on if they are misfiring)

Team needs to pull half backline back to protect fullbacks so they wont be opened up like 1st 20 v Galway or the 2016 Final v Tipp. Midfield & half forwards pull right back also allowing space for full forward line & protecting backs. Then break at speed & pick off long range points. Everyone on that halfback, midfield & half forward line can pick off long range points. (great team of 2006-2015 always sat back to protect the backs).
Also need a good puckout strategy, vary short & long & keep away from their centre back & to implement the support play we used in the league success (non-existent so far in championship).

We have potential to win it out this year if we can get over Limerick this weekend. Galway are beatable with the right game plan.

dastardly00

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

What county are you from?

Does that matter?

Pretty.Odd.

Have a spare ticket for Sunday, old stand section 207 row m. Let me know on pm if anybody wants it and I can email. It’s one of the printable season tickets. Free of charge as would love someone to get use of it while away.

SteJer

Padraig Walsh has to be moved out of the full back position and sent back home to wing back. Every team has tried to isolate him at full back and it has worked most of the time. Journalists now always mention that this is what the opposition have to do. Even Brendan Cummins today said the same. Limerick are definitely going to try this so now is the time to spring a surprise and name him there but not start him there.

It must be very frustrating for Padraig to be targeted by so many teams, because he is playing in a position he's not 100% comfortable in, when if he was wing back the opposition would be trying to keep the ball away from him. We are up against it enough now with playing 3 games in 14 days so we may as well go for broke now and make the necessary switches/changes. However, it's too late to make radical defensive changes. Therefore my team for Sunday would be;

Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy
Joey Holden
Paddy Deegan
Padraig Walsh
Cillian Buckley
Enda Morrissey
James Maher
Conor Fogarty
TJ Reid
Richie Hogan
Martin Keoghan
Billy Ryan
Colin Fennelly
Liam Blanchfield

John Donnelly, Richie Leahy & Ger Alyward at the moment would all be better coming off the bench when the games slows a bit in the second half.

Further changes need to be made to the backs for next year. I'd like to see something like the below for 2019;

Paul Murphy
Conor Delaney
Enda Morrissey/Joe Lyng
Padraig Walsh
Jason Cleere
Cillian Buckley

brookville

i know what your saying and gylnn is such handfull but after the poor start i thought padraig done well but i agree he got 1-1 and made a few scores and broke the ball but teams try isolate the opposite teams full backs and have a one on one situation close to the goal.
Last week it didnt work for galway in the air as much but this time it did but they had a much bigger work rate around the field in particular mf where burke and coen ran the show in the first half.I still think padraig is our best no 3 at the moment but we'd all like to have him at 5.
It'll be intresting to see does he go for broke sunday and put lennon or someone at 3 but i dont think id put joey at 3 his after having a steady year for us so far i wouldnt like to see him getting a roasting at 3.id love to move out padraig but i think we have other problems in different positions but if we can a big 70 mins from a few key lads id give us a good chance sunday.

usualstripes

brookville wrote: »

i know what your saying and gylnn is such handfull but after the poor start i thought padraig done well but i agree he got 1-1 and made a few scores and broke the ball but teams try isolate the opposite teams full backs and have a one on one situation close to the goal.
Last week it didnt work for galway in the air as much but this time it did but they had a much bigger work rate around the field in particular mf where burke and coen ran the show in the first half.I still think padraig is our best no 3 at the moment but we'd all like to have him at 5.
It'll be intresting to see does he go for broke sunday and put lennon or someone at 3 but i dont think id put joey at 3 his after having a steady year for us so far i wouldnt like to see him getting a roasting at 3.id love to move out padraig but i think we have other problems in different positions but if we can a big 70 mins from a few key lads id give us a good chance sunday.

No disrespect to Lennon as he is a fine hurler but in no way is he up to scratch as our full back. He doesn't have the mobility required to be an inter county full back for kilkenny.
There is only one option at the moment in moving padraig back to wing back and that's putting Conor Delaney in full.

brookville

usualstripes wrote: »

brookville wrote: »

i know what your saying and gylnn is such handfull but after the poor start i thought padraig done well but i agree he got 1-1 and made a few scores and broke the ball but teams try isolate the opposite teams full backs and have a one on one situation close to the goal.
Last week it didnt work for galway in the air as much but this time it did but they had a much bigger work rate around the field in particular mf where burke and coen ran the show in the first half.I still think padraig is our best no 3 at the moment but we'd all like to have him at 5.
It'll be intresting to see does he go for broke sunday and put lennon or someone at 3 but i dont think id put joey at 3 his after having a steady year for us so far i wouldnt like to see him getting a roasting at 3.id love to move out padraig but i think we have other problems in different positions but if we can a big 70 mins from a few key lads id give us a good chance sunday.

No disrespect to Lennon as he is a fine hurler but in no way is he up to scratch as our full back. He doesn't have the mobility required to be an inter county full back for kilkenny.
There is only one option at the moment in moving padraig back to wing back and that's putting Conor Delaney in full.

I agree with you conor delaney should of being tried in a few league matches at 3 and he done well in the u21 final last year but cody obviously doesn't trust him yet at 3.Lennon hasn't the pace and I was shocked to see him coming on last sunday wing back ahead of cleere or browne or delaney.
I hope our lads wont be to drained sunday but limerick will probably never get a better chance to beat us but im hoping with a few changes to freshen things up and hogan and fennelly starting in attack we'll give a good performance.

dubcat51

Lads im looking for a win.sunday,its the quarter final and the prize is massive.its about winning now not performanxe.walsh cup and early league games are about performance.

BENDYBINN

Who’s the ref Sunday?

oconnol1

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Who’s the ref Sunday?

James Mc Grath

blackcard

Kevin Kelly came on as a second half substitute for Ballyragget this evening. Heard he was quiet enough

kk1970

blackcard wrote: »

Kevin Kelly came on as a second half substitute for Ballyragget this evening. Heard he was quiet enough

I heard he came on and done well. Scored 4 or 5 points

castlecat

I was at the game , Kevin done OK considering it was his first game in six months, he is in desperate need of game time which is hard to get this time of the year, Kilkenny are playing very little hurling match s in training because the games are coming thick and fast and the club seen is up in the air at the moment.

brookville

castlecat wrote: »

I was at the game , Kevin done OK considering it was his first game in six months, he is in desperate need of game time which is hard to get this time of the year, Kilkenny are playing very little hurling match s in training because the games are coming thick and fast and the club seen is up in the air at the moment.

good to hear he played tonight its doubtful he'd be considered this weekend hopefully if we win sunday he might be available.I think he'll start scanlon sunday and maybe mossy for Walter.its a pity wally picked up an injury because he has really stepped up for us this year and done a lot of the heavy work for us.Leahy isn't working at wing foward although he might be better coming on and I think donnelly is better coming on. he'll probably have to start richie and colin who should be relatively fresh.

Garyp88

I prefer leahy in the midfield with maher, both work hard and both good with the ball. I think when leahy plays in the forwards he's cramped and runs down blind alleys then lashes at a nothing ball or does too much, in the midfield he gets abit more time, add in composure and experience the midfield could be as good as any

kk.man

Garyp88 wrote: »

I prefer leahy in the midfield with maher, both work hard and both good with the ball. I think when leahy plays in the forwards he's cramped and runs down blind alleys then lashes at a nothing ball or does too much, in the midfield he gets abit more time, add in composure and experience the midfield could be as good as any

I would agree and what about Conor Fogarty in the half forward line where he could inject power and strength to our attack..

tbiggertycome

Two little bits from this week.

Met one of the players in work yesterday and a lad who put in a huge shift both Sundays. He looked fresh and seemed quietly confident, aware of the task but looking forward to it. If the other 15 that take the field have the same mentality, I'd be confident of victory.

I have heard from a few people (not from the above player obviously- they'd never give it away) that Buckley has an issue with his knee and is a doubt for Sunday. Hopefully not true but would leave a massive hole in the defence and spine of the team if he doesn't start.