Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

brookville

kkclubhurling wrote: »

Yep both underage,
A good Kilkenny team
Dean Mason, Daire Corcoran, David Blanchfield, Conor Heary, Eoin O Shea, Cian Kenny, Guilfoyle, Eoin Cody, Shane Staunton, Luke Hogan, Conor Murphy, James Brennan and Liam Moore would all have had a decent years at senior this year

Add to that a right mix of good intermediate and a few good junior players like Stephen Donnelly from Thomastown and Martin O Neill from Mooncoin and it’s a good team.

That's a very decent squad I didnt realise we had that many underage.There is some very decent hurlers coming through hopefully they can really express themselves against galway.
Padraig moylan was very good for the boro on their junior run.
I'm intrested to see how darragh Corcoran gets on he was impressive for the shamrocks and himself and David blanchfield will get up and down the field.
I agree that we are after being passed out in s&c sector.I know it takes a few years to build up and adapt to inter county.Im not fully convinced michael comerford is the answer with our senior team either but that's for another day.
Fair play to the girls and management team last night after all the heartache it was great to see them get the win.Tommy shefflin has had a great couple of years and we could do worse than having him in with the county.

kilkennyboy

Lyng, barry,rice fair backroom setup i expect a big performance

Grats

brookville wrote: »

That's a very decent squad I didnt realise we had that many underage.There is some very decent hurlers coming through hopefully they can really express themselves against galway.
Padraig moylan was very good for the boro on their junior run.
I'm intrested to see how darragh Corcoran gets on he was impressive for the shamrocks and himself and David blanchfield will get up and down the field.
I agree that we are after being passed out in s&c sector.I know it takes a few years to build up and adapt to inter county.Im not fully convinced michael comerford is the answer with our senior team either but that's for another day.
Fair play to the girls and management team last night after all the heartache it was great to see them get the win.Tommy shefflin has had a great couple of years and we could do worse than having him in with the county.

On the subject of county senior trainer, it was a tough year for the new trainer with the way things turned out due to covid. However his record at under 20 level wouldn't inspire confidence - the players were very sluggish in the semi final against Cork,, similar to the senior players this year. Before there is any manager appointed the County Board should have their own list of questions and suggestions drawn up for discussion with any potential manager. I'd like to think that they've already carried out a review of the year and be ready to push on quickly for the upcoming year with the best possible backroom team in place. It's the very least the players deserve after putting in such a trying year, living in isolation to a large extent.

They deserve the best in terms of trainer, coach, strength and conditioning, sports psychology etc. The County Board must take the initiative and direct the new management. Of course cost could be a stumbling block.

tbiggertycome

Grats wrote: »

On the subject of county senior trainer, it was a tough year for the new trainer with the way things turned out due to covid. However his record at under 20 level wouldn't inspire confidence - the players were very sluggish in the semi final against Cork,, similar to the senior players this year. Before there is any manager appointed the County Board should have their own list of questions and suggestions drawn up for discussion with any potential manager. I'd like to think that they've already carried out a review of the year and be ready to push on quickly for the upcoming year with the best possible backroom team in place. It's the very least the players deserve after putting in such a trying year, living in isolation to a large extent.

They deserve the best in terms of trainer, coach, strength and conditioning, sports psychology etc. The County Board must take the initiative and direct the new management. Of course cost could be a stumbling block.

What new management team, haven't heard anything about BC not coming back, at least not anything I'd believe. I think it's unfair to throw Mickey Comerford under the bus for Kilkenny's issues this year, not blaming you but I'm starting to hear this narrative and I think he's becoming a scapegoat. I full agree we need to up the level of coaching, training and S&C across all grades. I'm not aware of Comerfords credentials in the field but didn't hear too many concerns before the campaign. I haven't heard anything about the players being unhappy with how he was preparing them either. These lads have experienced top level training in college and know when it's a step back.

I do think however we need a full time roll for a top level S&C coach who will do all levels and teams and have young lads coming through ready to make the step up to senior. How are the Limerick and Galway lads in such shape they've been doing the correct training for years adapted to their age, body type, position being played and the style of game demanded by the manager. We don't have any of that. The only player that has got that in Kilkenny recently was Adrian Mullen, when Mick Dempsey did a lot of work with him for a few years before he hit senior. Mullen was obviously a talent and settled into senior far quicker than his colleagues a year or two older who didn't get that treatment, the likes of Donnelly and Mossy stand out as two who are only starting to get in the right condition this year, that's not their fault they were playing catch-up.

The County Board really need to up their game in this regard, whoever the manager is.

JJs Left Hand

Having seen him in action Mickey Comerford is very good and the players, both last years U20s and the seniors, appear to have loads of time for him.

As above there needs to be oversight to ensure juvenile and senior are working along the same chain. I believe that the framework is there but not sure if there's a relationship between the juvenile and senior set ups. The issue is you've got a full time physical coach in the juvenile set up but the senior S&C is at the whim of the manager/county board. Ideally the person at senior level would be full time with full oversight of what's happening from the U14 development squads up.

Maybe that is there but it doesn't appear to be.

Also needs to be pointed out that no matter what you're doing you can't train speed. It's something you have or don't have. The scope for improvement is really small.

tibruit

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Not sure about the minors but expect the U20s to get a bit of a trimming

The athleticism of this Limerick team compared to us is outrageous. I know we beat them last year but they would've murdered us if we got here.

Murdered us? How did we beat them last year? We beat Galway this year. They went on to push Limerick all the way to the final whistle. The second half collapses against Dublin and Waterford are more about mental toughness than strength and conditioning, or indeed skill levels. We were also unlucky this year in how the cards fell. Waterford had a big advantage over us in match fitness. Competitive games are far better than any amount of training sessions. We are still at the top of the top table. A lot of naysayers about.

JJs Left Hand

tibruit wrote: »

Murdered us? How did we beat them last year? We beat Galway this year. They went on to push Limerick all the way to the final whistle. The second half collapses against Dublin and Waterford are more about mental toughness than strength and conditioning, or indeed skill levels. We were also unlucky this year in how the cards fell. Waterford had a big advantage over us in match fitness. Competitive games are far better than any amount of training sessions. We are still at the top of the top table. A lot of naysayers about.

Waterford scored 2-21 from play against us
They scored 8 from play yesterday
We scored 2-10 from play against Waterford Limerick scored 24 points from play yesterday

Considering the performance of our midfield and half back line against Waterford and how easily they were taken apart are you seriously trying to argue that Limerick wouldn't have caused absolute wreck yesterday allied with the motivation of what happened last year.

Its not about naysaying. Its about recognising the reality of where we are. We've sleepwalked for a decade into the position we are now and unless we accept where we are and not think we have a divine right to be at the top table then it's only going to go one way.

If you truly believe it was "mental toughness" that was the problem in those two games then I don't even know where to go with you.

dastardly00

tibruit wrote: »

Murdered us? How did we beat them last year? We beat Galway this year. They went on to push Limerick all the way to the final whistle. The second half collapses against Dublin and Waterford are more about mental toughness than strength and conditioning, or indeed skill levels. We were also unlucky this year in how the cards fell. Waterford had a big advantage over us in match fitness. Competitive games are far better than any amount of training sessions. We are still at the top of the top table. A lot of naysayers about.

In what way were we unlucky with the hand that we were dealt?

Alonzo Moseley

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Waterford scored 2-21 from play against us
They scored 8 from play yesterday
We scored 2-10 from play against Waterford Limerick scored 24 points from play yesterday

Considering the performance of our midfield and half back line against Waterford and how easily they were taken apart are you seriously trying to argue that Limerick wouldn't have caused absolute wreck yesterday allied with the motivation of what happened last year.

It's not about naysaying. It's about recognising the reality of where we are. We've sleepwalked for a decade into the position we are now and unless we accept where we are and not think we have a divine right to be at the top table then it's only going to go one way.

If you truly believe it was "mental toughness" that was the problem in those two games then I don't even know where to go with you.

If we move forward with an attitude of "we still have good players and in Cody we know we have the man that can get the best out of them, we won't be far off", I am all but convinced we won't win an AI for a long time

Ignoring what happened in 2nd halves versus Dublin and Waterford or dismissing it's as just a one-off, would be madness
There is a real trend here for 3 years now of teams getting on top of us in 2nd half and (as the above two shockers show) it is getting worse

We shipped 4-31 from play against Dub and Waterford in two 2nd halves and not one of the starting backs were replaced before the 70th min in either match.
That sort of stubbornness is hard to fathom, as is the apparent refusal to accept the opposition have clearly spotted weaknesses and are taking max advantage of them

greenspurs

All Ireland final will be in July 2021, and then the Club championships will begin.

NHL back in february -> Championship -> All Irl -> Club.

Its going to be a tough year.

conor05

greenspurs wrote: »

All Ireland final will be in July 2021, and then the Club championships will begin.

NHL back in february -> Championship -> All Irl -> Club.

Its going to be a tough year.

Is there a link to this information anywhere?

tibruit

dastardly00 wrote: »

In what way were we unlucky with the hand that we were dealt?

I said why in my original post.

tibruit

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Waterford scored 2-21 from play against us
They scored 8 from play yesterday
We scored 2-10 from play against Waterford Limerick scored 24 points from play yesterday

Considering the performance of our midfield and half back line against Waterford and how easily they were taken apart are you seriously trying to argue that Limerick wouldn't have caused absolute wreck yesterday allied with the motivation of what happened last year.

Its not about naysaying. Its about recognising the reality of where we are. We've sleepwalked for a decade into the position we are now and unless we accept where we are and not think we have a divine right to be at the top table then it's only going to go one way.

If you truly believe it was "mental toughness" that was the problem in those two games then I don't even know where to go with you.

We need to look back to our performance against Limerick last year. Limerick were flattered that day by the scoreline. The way we set ourselves up defensively and the six players numbered from 2 to 7 should have been the template for this years championship. Instead we performed major surgery on our defense, which included leaving two back to back All Ireland winners sitting on the sideline, primarily because we collapsed in the final last year. That collapse was due to a sending off. It was a one point game at that stage.

In my opinion Galway are a considerably better team than Dublin and a fair bit better than Waterford. I think their quarter and semi performances confirm that. Our issues this year are primarily psychological. We collapsed against lesser teams in the second half. But against Galway we hung in, got the goals when we needed them and closed out the game stronger. I should probably rephrase what I said and say mental laziness rather that a lack of mental toughness. Against Dublin and Waterford, the finish line was in sight at half time. This was fatal against Waterford because they were always going to come at us hard in the second half. We took our foot off the gas and they had an advantage of competitive match conditioning over us.


Anyone who thinks Limerick would have destroyed us is a naysayer and should get over themselves. We are very much still up there near the top of the table.

Grats

I mentioned new management in my previous post and what I mean is that at present we don't have a management team for the coming year, yet. Brian Cody had a one year term.

Before appointing the next manager, the County board needs to review the past year and address various issues. The team trainer has to be one of those issues as we blew up badly on a number of our matches. As I said previously, the under 20s also looked sluggish last year under the same trainer. If the board are happy with his plans for tweaking his method for next year, that's fine. But I did question his appointment at the time as a result of the under 20s lack lustre display. Why would you promote somebody unless they have the credentials. The players may be happy with him but has anybody asked them why they collapsed in matches.

If we don't address issues that arose then we can expect the same results next year. It's time for the County board to take the initiative. We all own hurling not just any one person.

Realt Dearg Sec

Grats wrote: »

I mentioned new management in my previous post and what I mean is that at present we don't have a management team for the coming year, yet. Brian Cody had a one year term.

Before appointing the next manager, the County board needs to review the past year and address various issues. The team trainer has to be one of those issues as we blew up badly on a number of our matches. As I said previously, the under 20s also looked sluggish last year under the same trainer. If the board are happy with his plans for tweaking his method for next year, that's fine. But I did question his appointment at the time as a result of the under 20s lack lustre display. Why would you promote somebody unless they have the credentials. The players may be happy with him but has anybody asked them why they collapsed in matches.

If we don't address issues that arose then we can expect the same results next year. It's time for the County board to take the initiative. We all own hurling not just any one person.

I wouldn't know anything about the trainer but the general point you're making here I very much agree with. Eddie Brennan when he was in THAT interview with wooly off the record, complained that the county board in Laois weren't asking him the hard questions that he felt they should be asking him. I do wonder if there's anyone in the CB in KK asking Cody hard questions. But if, as seems the case, he simply won't be removed except when he wants to, then in effect he can't be questioned, because the CB won't do anything. It's not a recipe for success.

Your last line is very important: hurling in KK doesn't belong to any one person. Nobody is bigger than the future success of the county, and that should be the only consideration when bringing people on board, not what they've done in the past. Ruthlessness. That has always been Cody's own philosophy when it comes to players. Not saying he has to go, but he wouldn't keep a player around based on past glories, and it's not a good enough reason for management to stay in place either.

Grats

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I wouldn't know anything about the trainer but the general point you're making here I very much agree with. Eddie Brennan when he was in THAT interview with wooly off the record, complained that the county board in Laois weren't asking him the hard questions that he felt they should be asking him. I do wonder if there's anyone in the CB in KK asking Cody hard questions. But if, as seems the case, he simply won't be removed except when he wants to, then in effect he can't be questioned, because the CB won't do anything. It's not a recipe for success.

Your last line is very important: hurling in KK doesn't belong to any one person. Nobody is bigger than the future success of the county, and that should be the only consideration when bringing people on board, not what they've done in the past. Ruthlessness. That has always been Cody's own philosophy when it comes to players. Not saying he has to go, but he wouldn't keep a player around based on past glories, and it's not a good enough reason for management to stay in place either.

You have a better way with words than I have, so thanks for getting my message over better than I could. It's exactly what I was attempting to say.

Village87

Any GAA calendar for next year, GAA will need to get this out ASAP.

Any news on Kilkenny management set up. Surely Cody needs to be challenged on his style of play and selections this year. Lads like Paddy Deegan who is in starting 3/4 years now and is way off the pace needs to be challenged or replaced for his position. Jack Fagan cleaned Deegan in the air and for pace and Stephen Bennett had the measure of him with his with his skill and intelligence. These 2 were made look like less athletes when on Diarmuid Brynes and Kyle Hayes. Conor Fogarty is another that offers nothing to Kilkenny only taking up a starting place for someone younger and more talented who could do with the game time. Unless there are changes things will continue to get worse.

Will be very interesting to see if DJ goes back in under Cody. DJ not happy with selection, style of play and continuously undermined by Cody. Sounds like a very unhappy set up at present, talk of players not happy with set up also.

mullinr2

This u20 match is a big one for kk. What I have noticed about kk u20 teams in recent years, is the lack of steel and toughness about them. We had a good team last year, but were pushed about by Cork, who wanted it more.

minty81

If you're genuinely hoping for the county board to seriously evaluate the senior management performances then you can't be too familiar with the senior officers there at the moment.

Last years all ireland is also swept under the carpet and the collapse is purely put down to the sending off, but this years second half collapses with 15 men on the field shines a new light on that too. Tipp hit 2-17 in second half, Dublin 2-15 and Waterford 2-17

dastardly00

tibruit wrote: »

I said why in my original post.

So we were unlucky because we were drawn against Waterford as their match fitness was significantly greater than ours... well Limerick had the same break as us between provincial final and AI semi-final and they got on okay.

But then you also said that the second half collapse against Waterford was due to a lack of mental toughness rather than conditioning...

It sounds like you are just looking for any excuse to sweep poor performances under the carpet.

tibruit wrote: »

Murdered us? How did we beat them last year? We beat Galway this year. They went on to push Limerick all the way to the final whistle. The second half collapses against Dublin and Waterford are more about mental toughness than strength and conditioning, or indeed skill levels. We were also unlucky this year in how the cards fell. Waterford had a big advantage over us in match fitness. Competitive games are far better than any amount of training sessions. We are still at the top of the top table. A lot of naysayers about.

Whiplash85

What do Kilkenny supporters see as the major area of surgery/changes for your team needed to challenge for an All Ireland next year? As a Tipp supporter I feel we are mis managing the transition of 2 successful U21 sides and failing to evolve to new strategies that the game is seeing. We have met this current Limerick team 3 times now and being hammered twice (won a dead rubber) and if it were not for ye beating them last year we may have been in trouble against them but who knows… Finals take on a life of their own. I find the talk of dynasties and best team ever talk from current pundits and Limerick supporters quite nauseating. For me the Kilkenny team of 07-09 is probably the greatest hurling team of all time and would beat this current limerick team due to their ability to score goals. But make no mistake this Limerick team are going no where and will be dining at the top table for a while. We have a hell of a lot of work to do in Tipp to compete with them and find a way to counteract their style of play and probably need an infusion of 5 or 6 new players.

Alonzo Moseley

Whiplash85 wrote: »

What do Kilkenny supporters see as the major area of surgery/changes for your team needed to challenge for an All Ireland next year? As a Tipp supporter I feel we are mis managing the transition of 2 successful U21 sides and failing to evolve to new strategies that the game is seeing. We have met this current Limerick team 3 times now and being hammered twice (won a dead rubber) and if it were not for ye beating them last year we may have been in trouble against them but who knows… Finals take on a life of their own. I find the talk of dynasties and best team ever talk from current pundits and Limerick supporters quite nauseating. For me the Kilkenny team of 07-09 is probably the greatest hurling team of all time and would beat this current limerick team due to their ability to score goals. But make no mistake this Limerick team are going no where and will be dining at the top table for a while. We have a hell of a lot of work to do in Tipp to compete with them and find a way to counteract their style of play and probably need an infusion of 5 or 6 new players.

One thing that has helped Limerick is that so many of the main contenders have gone backwards this year
KK, Tipp, Wex, Clare, Cork for sure and while Shane O' Neill has done a good job, I think Galway have too

I really don't want to rub salt in the wounds but I think Waterford making the AI final proves this point

I feel 2020 might not be a good barometer, a bit of an outlier year inevitably suited the strongest, best prepared and most professional set up (Limerick)
I feel at least one if not two teams will challenge Limerick strongly next year
Galway with an infusion of new blood would be the safest bet but Kilkenny and Tipp have the players to maybe have a big say in 2021, but more ifs over both for me than Galway
Of rest, Cork are joker in the pack but do look the team that most discommodes Limerick
The problem is they regularly don't discommode far lesser teams

ps
One further chink of light on catching Limerick I believe is the strength of their bench doesn't look remotely as strong as it is bigged up to be
Shane Dowling loss wasn't felt this year but might be next year and Graeme Mulcahy looks to be fading
Casey, Reidy and Pat Ryan are handy subs to have but arent terryfying.

tibruit

dastardly00 wrote: »

So we were unlucky because we were drawn against Waterford as their match fitness was significantly greater than ours... well Limerick had the same break as us between provincial final and AI semi-final and they got on okay.

But then you also said that the second half collapse against Waterford was due to a lack of mental toughness rather than conditioning...

It sounds like you are just looking for any excuse to sweep poor performances under the carpet.

Do you not need to explain the solid first half against Waterford and our second half against Galway? Waterford only beat us by 4 points in the end. Strength and conditioning was not an issue this year, if it was we wouldn`t have beaten Galway. Limerick and Waterford both had three competitive games before the semis. We only had two and one of them was a mickey mouse affair.

Whiplash85

Alonzo Moseley wrote: »

One thing that has helped Limerick is that so many of the main contenders have gone backwards this year
KK, Tipp, Wex, Clare, Cork for sure and while Shane O' Neill has done a good job, I think Galway have too

I really don't want to rub salt in the wounds but I think Waterford making the AI final proves this point

I feel 2020 might not be a good barometer, a bit of false flag year
I feel at least one if not two teams will challenge Limerick strongly next year
Galway with an infusion of new blood would be the safest bet but Kilkenny and Tipp have the players to maybe have a big say in 2021, but more ifs over both for me than Galway
Of rest, Cork are joker in the pack but do look the team that most discommodes Limerick
The problem is they regualrlty don't discommode far lesser teams

Yeah how Cork can as you say discommode them is baffling under their current guise. As a small microcosm of that I have seen Rob Downey for Cork play numerous times this year and he has failed to impress me but yet he could turn in a MOM performance when they beat them in Munster round robin last year. They drew with them the year before.

I think only Galway could match them at the moment in physicality stakes. Obviously losing Mannion was a huge loss in semi final and Fintan Burke was a big loss too so maybe they are the team to knock them off their perch. With a FF line of Concannon, Whelan and Johnny Glynn (if he came back) would cause Limerick plenty of headaches and make their half back line have to sit deeper. I think that's the key to beating them actually and What Cork have done i.e. play 3 inside forward line to reduce congestion around the middle.

I think Kilkenny just need a freshening up both on team itself and in backroom team. Someone like a Kinnerk or a Bevans. The loss of Martin Fogarty a few years ago cannot be understated. Eoin Cody will develop into a fine player and with Adrian Mullen to come back that should improve team considerably. With the way TJ is playing there is probably another 2 years left in him too providing he can avoid injuries. He really is an enigma and for me has surpassed Shefflin as probably the greatest Kilkenny player of all time.

As an outsider looking in for Kilkenny to win an AI you probably need another wing back, a successor to Conor Fogarty (I'm surprised Richie Leahy hasn't kicked on), another out ball target in half forward line in the shape of a Walter Walsh and another player that can weigh in with 3 or 4 points a game.

mountgomery burns

tibruit wrote: »

Do you not need to explain the solid first half against Waterford and our second half against Galway? Waterford only beat us by 4 points in the end. Strength and conditioning was not an issue this year, if it was we wouldn`t have beaten Galway. Limerick and Waterford both had three competitive games before the semis. We only had two and one of them was a mickey mouse affair.

That match fitness doesn't wash, how could you not be match fit/sharp playing your 3rd game in 4 weeks? And if that was the case surely we would have been sharper earlier on and ye would not have been 7 points up at half time?

Were you as dismissive of Kilkennys win against Limerick last year given they hadn't played for 4 weeks?

JJs Left Hand

I think the physicality element of Limerick in comparison to others is over stated. I've seen a few people say Galway are their best match but all intercounty players are strong. What you need is a massive ****ing engine that can carry you through 90 minutes and you need incredible concentration and awareness of what's going on up to 30 yards away from you.

Their middle 8 cover huge mileage to the naked eye (haven't seen stats to back myself up admittedly) but yet how many times did Hegarty, one of the forwards who should be watched like a hawk, find himself free on Sunday.

The hunting in packs mentality is fine but you can't have 5 or 6 lads closing down one man as Limerick will just recycle quicker than anyone else and kill you 30 yards away.

But make no mistake the skill level of that Limerick team is phenomenal. Their ability to move the ball at pace in tight space makes getting a hurl in very difficult. They're not overtly flashy and they don't kill you quick like Kilkenny or Tipp did with goals but they kill you slow and its nearly more demoralising watching it.

Edit: sorry I didn't answer the question. I think you beat them with raw speed coupled with that workrate. You run and run and run at them and make them foul you even more than they already do and you run and run and run with Hayes and Hegarty and Morrissey et all. I don't think man marking will work but your half back line and midfield need to work as one and ensure that there's always someone across the 3 positions close to your 65 to step up or drop back.

Whiplash85

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I think the physicality element of Limerick in comparison to others is over stated. I've seen a few people say Galway are their best match but all intercounty players are strong. What you need is a massive ****ing engine that can carry you through 90 minutes and you need incredible concentration and awareness of what's going on up to 30 yards away from you.

Their middle 8 cover huge mileage to the naked eye (haven't seen stats to back myself up admittedly) but yet how many times did Hegarty, one of the forwards who should be watched like a hawk, find himself free on Sunday.

The hunting in packs mentality is fine but you can't have 5 or 6 lads closing down one man as Limerick will just recycle quicker than anyone else and kill you 30 yards away.

But make no mistake the skill level of that Limerick team is phenomenal. Their ability to move the ball at pace in tight space makes getting a hurl in very difficult. They're not overtly flashy and they don't kill you quick like Kilkenny or Tipp did with goals but they kill you slow and its nearly more demoralising watching it.

Yeah it is death by a thousand cuts really. Their half forward line averaged 12 points from play in semi final and final. You have to make a decision to stick or twist. Do you follow them out the field and leave gaps for Flanagan and Gillane to exploit. Personally I would follow them and put your best man marker on Gillane like Brendan Maher, Daithi Burke or Huw Lawlor/Conor Delaney. Waterford lost all shape when TDB came off injured and Kevin Moran just didnt have the engine like you said to go toe to toe. Some of Padraic Mahers worst outings have been against Limerick where he has become redundant. Hunting in packs is not the answer either as they can break tackles and their off loading is best in the game. It will be intriguing next year watching how teams come to terms with devising a plan to beat them. with Mike Casey to come back and Richie English we may see Dan Morrissey revert to wing back and Hayes back to centre forward. The great thing is it looks like we will only have to wait a few months. Will Limerick become victims to their own hubris or will they be able to do back to back.

JJs Left Hand

I think the short turnaround makes it far more likely they win again. Little to no opportunity to celebrate with no one buying you drinks etc, gives teams less chance to prepare and they're riding the momentum of an undefeated year.

Whiplash85

Yeah there is that. No team holiday etc. But it can go either way really. And it is more a mental challenge than an external softening influence like buying drinks etc. If it is largely the same 15 which has been the case heretofore complacency can set in and you can stop doing all the things that got you to where you are. You just don't make all the runs you used to make or chase the lost cause. I think Limerick were aggrieved after the semi final last year and the 65 that wasn't from Cillian Buckley's hurley so I have no doubt they got some energy from that. They will very much become the hunted again next year and munster round robbin will be cut throat enough as well with Clare getting a few players back too and Cork looking to launch a challenge. It will still take a fair team to beat them.

tibruit

mountgomery burns wrote: »

That match fitness doesn't wash, how could you not be match fit/sharp playing your 3rd game in 4 weeks? And if that was the case surely we would have been sharper earlier on and ye would not have been 7 points up at half time?

Were you as dismissive of Kilkennys win against Limerick last year given they hadn't played for 4 weeks?

I would argue that it is in the second half that match fitness really begins to show. In 1998, KK comfortably beat Offaly in the Leinster final. Offaly went through the qualifiers and had an epic 3 game semi against Clare. They then blew us away in the last ten minutes of the final. Mayo got to the football final a few years ago playing something like ten weekends in a row. Extra games are a bonus not a negative.

I fully accept that KK had an advantage over Limerick last year. Historically the Munster champions have performed poorly in semi finals against a qualifier. The lay off for provincial champions is a handicap. We had a defensive meltdown against Cork, similar to those we`ve seen this year. But it came in the first half and we got our act together in the second half and we were excellent against Limerick afterwards. A number of contributors here continually talk us down. Some of the negativity last year before the quarter and semi was ridiculous. It`s going on again at the moment about the U20s. They`re beaten before they tog out.

I think Limerick have been the best team for the past three years. Tipp were the luckiest team to ever win an All Ireland last year. After being hammered in the Munster final, their path to the title was Laois, Wexford and 14 man KK. Tipp have done little to uphold the form this year and Wexford looked like a busted flush. We`ve been hit and miss but we are Leinster champs and got to the last four. People can point out periods of a game when we were poor but the scoreboard doesn`t usually lie at the end.