Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

minty81

therealdonster wrote: »

Looks like the ref made an error to me. I think he blew him for over carrying when he didnt as he tipped the ball off the hurl after the dummy hand pass. It's a good thing it didn't decide the game as it was a howler if a call...

Caught it 3 times. Took possession in his left hand, dummy handpass from his right hand, then tapped it back into his left hand

The lack of a plan on short puckouts was killing us in first half. No plan once the corner back got possession.
Overall we were much the better team, Drennan and Doyle the standouts for me. Doyle looks so similar in style to Richie Leahy.
Full back line could be a worry when up against better opposition.
What players are still u-16?

JJs Left Hand

Doyle
Shine
Dunne
Fitzpatrick
And Dunne, Carey and Glennon on the bench. Maybe Langton as well but I'm not 100% on him.

There may be more but those are the ones I know.

Walter Alright

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Doyle
Shine
Dunne
Fitzpatrick
And Dunne, Carey and Glennon on the bench. Maybe Langton as well but I'm not 100% on him.

There may be more but those are the ones I know.

Who’s the best prospect out of those lads do you think?

Can you see any of them on the Senior Panel in a few years?

JJs Left Hand

I'd rather not talk about 16 year olds individually on the internet but as a group, as long as they progress, nearly all of those named have the raw talent to make it.

But they've only just turned 16. A long way to go.

Walter Alright

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I'd rather not talk about 16 year olds individually on the internet but as a group, as long as they progress, nearly all of those named have the raw talent to make it.

But they've only just turned 16. A long way to go.

That’s a good point you’ve made in regards of their age, I didn’t think of that when I asked the question. Fair play to you.

Not from KK myself, just interested.

Stopitwillya

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I'd rather not talk about 16 year olds individually on the internet but as a group, as long as they progress, nearly all of those named have the raw talent to make it.

But they've only just turned 16. A long way to go.

Have they progressed alot since under 14. Seen that team play Cork in an under 14 Tony Forestall final in Walsh park two years ago and Cork were definitely a bit ahead of them.

JJs Left Hand

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Have they progressed alot since under 14. Seen that team play Cork in an under 14 Tony Forestall final in Walsh park two years ago and Cork were definitely a bit ahead of them.

its why I said raw talent and why I was curious today to see if they've progressed. I didn't think much of the coaching I witnessed over the last two years. That team went down to Waterford utterly convinced they were going to win and win comfortably and weren't ready for Cork. Same at U15 last year. Got beaten by Galway I think it was.

I think Corks coaching is miles ahead of ours. Seeing the stuff your GDOs share on social media, I know our development squads are not getting that level of coaching.

Cornerback1

kkclubhurling wrote: »

Good win for minors this morning.

I noticed looking at the teams for Friday night and today that from a school perspective

Friday night (I presume most are finished by u20)
12 Kieran’s
2 CBS
2 Comer
1 Grennan
2 not sure ( O Neill & Byrne... De le Salle and Good Counsel?)

U17 today
7 CBS
5 Kierans
2 Good Counsel (they bet Kieran’s at this age in Leinster juvenile)
Not sure on a couple of others..

Out of say 35 players that played in these matches, 17 are Kieran’s, another 9 from CBS with the other schools providing a couple here and there..

I questioned before how good this Kieran’s dominance is for Kilkenny hurling.. our 2 city schools are providing a massive proportion of our players! Surely our schools in Callan, Ballyhale, Comer, Johnstown, Mooncoin etc should be providing a couple of players (or more) each near on every year? Is the standard of coaching in our secondary schools up to scratch? Is there any hurling in some of the smaller ones?

From a hurling perspective surely Kilkenny would be better off with 2 good town schools, a very good north Kilkenny hurling school and a strong South KK hurling school which sees 100 plus 17/18 year olds getting a good standard of coaching as opposed to just the best in Kieran’s or CBS?

I remember when Callan were a real force in Senior A and then Johnstown had a spell and so did Comer, the likes of Noel Hickey, JJ came from these schools, would be great to see them flourish again

Are we not putting too much on coaches in schools?

The club is where the real work goes on in my opinion.

blackcard

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

its why I said raw talent and why I was curious today to see if they've progressed. I didn't think much of the coaching I witnessed over the last two years. That team went down to Waterford utterly convinced they were going to win and win comfortably and weren't ready for Cork. Same at U15 last year. Got beaten by Galway I think it was.

I think Corks coaching is miles ahead of ours. Seeing the stuff your GDOs share on social media, I know our development squads are not getting that level of coaching.

Do you know any specifics as to what we are missing out on? Do we have any coaches that are up to speed?

JJs Left Hand

I can only comment on what I seen and in fairness to the coaches maybe the days I was there were seen as trials rather than trainings. But the ones I seen before I stopped bothering were just 15 on 15 games with no coaching outside pregame and half time team talks to both teams. Again, I'll qualify all that by saying I only seen a low percentage of the total sessions

kilkennyboy

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I can only comment on what I seen and in fairness to the coaches maybe the days I was there were seen as trials rather than trainings. But the ones I seen before I stopped bothering were just 15 on 15 games with no coaching outside pregame and half time team talks to both teams. Again, I'll qualify all that by saying I only seen a low percentage of the total sessions

So basically you're saying you don't know what goes on a training but your guessing not much.

JJs Left Hand

That's a fair enough comment. I was asked for my opinion and I gave it based on what I've seen myself and based on the opinion of people directly involved. I'm not trying to make baseless remarks which is why I qualified it as much as I did as I'm not in the habit of slating volunteers who are doing their best.

revanaghkk

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

That's a fair enough comment. I was asked for my opinion and I gave it based on what I've seen myself and based on the opinion of people directly involved. I'm not trying to make baseless remarks which is why I qualified it as much as I did as I'm not in the habit of slating volunteers who are doing their best.

That's great to hear. As a coach yourself you wouldn't like to be slated and it's not nice to see volunteers, coaches and managers who are doing their best being slated anonymously

minty81

kkclubhurling wrote: »

Good win for minors this morning.

I noticed looking at the teams for Friday night and today that from a school perspective

Friday night (I presume most are finished by u20)
12 Kieran’s
2 CBS
2 Comer
1 Grennan
2 not sure ( O Neill & Byrne... De le Salle and Good Counsel?)

U17 today
7 CBS
5 Kierans
2 Good Counsel (they bet Kieran’s at this age in Leinster juvenile)
Not sure on a couple of others..

Out of say 35 players that played in these matches, 17 are Kieran’s, another 9 from CBS with the other schools providing a couple here and there..

I questioned before how good this Kieran’s dominance is for Kilkenny hurling.. our 2 city schools are providing a massive proportion of our players! Surely our schools in Callan, Ballyhale, Comer, Johnstown, Mooncoin etc should be providing a couple of players (or more) each near on every year? Is the standard of coaching in our secondary schools up to scratch? Is there any hurling in some of the smaller ones?

From a hurling perspective surely Kilkenny would be better off with 2 good town schools, a very good north Kilkenny hurling school and a strong South KK hurling school which sees 100 plus 17/18 year olds getting a good standard of coaching as opposed to just the best in Kieran’s or CBS?

I remember when Callan were a real force in Senior A and then Johnstown had a spell and so did Comer, the likes of Noel Hickey, JJ came from these schools, would be great to see them flourish again

I think decent young hurlers (and parents in many cases) want to push to go to Kierans primarily for the hurling. The appeal of the young lad making it in Kierans carries more of an allure to making it in one of the smaller schools. This has always existed to a degree but seems to be more of an issue now than ever.
But only 15 can play at a time, so there are plenty of good young hurlers who would get many more opportunities to hurl and would develop more if they did go to one of the smaller achools around their area be it Callan, Comer, Ballyhale etc. Whilst in Kierans they could fall by the wayside and be lost to the game before they're even 16.
So I don't think the main issue is quality of coaching in these schools, I just think its the appeal of Kierans hoovering up so much underage talent and inevitably only a select few can make it there.

kksaints

minty81 wrote: »

I think decent young hurlers (and parents in many cases) want to push to go to Kierans primarily for the hurling. The appeal of the young lad making it in Kierans carries more of an allure to making it in one of the smaller schools. This has always existed to a degree but seems to be more of an issue now than ever.
But only 15 can play at a time, so there are plenty of good young hurlers who would get many more opportunities to hurl and would develop more if they did go to one of the smaller achools around their area be it Callan, Comer, Ballyhale etc. Whilst in Kierans they could fall by the wayside and be lost to the game before they're even 16.
So I don't think the main issue is quality of coaching in these schools, I just think its the appeal of Kierans hoovering up so much underage talent and inevitably only a select few can make it there.

I know this is a GAA thread but Kieran's also has a very good academic record better than some of the other schools mentioned. I think parents consider more than just hurling when deciding what school children go to.

minty81

kksaints wrote: »

I know this is a GAA thread but Kieran's also has a very good academic record better than some of the other schools mentioned. I think parents consider more than just hurling when deciding what school children go to.

Of course. I was just talking about those where hurling was a significant factor behind their decision

kksaints

minty81 wrote: »

Of course. I was just talking about those where hurling was a significant factor behind their decision

Would there be that many parents though? Hurling isn't a professional sport so the chances of making a living from it are almost non-existent (I know there's some where it's helped get jobs etc).

chris kamara

Long time viewer of this thread but the recent debate of the state of hurling in secondary schools has prompted me to post for the first time.

I myself am a teacher in one of the smaller secondary schools mentioned. Have been promoting gaa in the school for a long time. Getting pissed off at this stage.

Hurling in smaller secondary schools in Kilkenny is surely dying a death. Most of the schools mentioned cannot field teams anymore, whereas ten years ago hurling was really strong in all of these schools.
Those teams that field have been getting trimmings from Wexford teams in particular over the last few years. Wexford county board and their coaching and games are miles ahead of ours. Each school seems to have a games promotion officer coming in after school, training teams and helping out on match days. As a result their school teams who Kilkenny schools used to beat easily are now giving our schools trimmings leading to them winning competitions and moving up the grades while Kilkenny schools are dropping down the grades. Meanwhile a secondary school teacher in Kilkenny could go the whole year without seeing a games promotion officer. Their whole plan for seconds schools in Kilkenny consists of a talk and meal for teachers on an evening in Nowlan Park and an under 14 blitz at the end of the year. If you were to ask our gpos how many of the Kilkenny schools are getting on their competitions they wouldn't have a clue. Likewise the county board wouldn't have a clue either. As long as Kierans and CBS are getting to A finals everything is rosy in the garden.

Another reason is the aforementioned schools competing at A level, not only in the city but also on the borders. I look on in envy at these schools with their huge playing numbers. Teachers in these schools look after one team while the teachers in smaller schools can often have up to six teams to look after, although that is becoming very rare due to not being able to field at certain ages anymore.
Yet these schools competing at A level are constantly trying to poach the better players in the smaller schools. If you are part of a development squad you can now be sure of a phone call or two asking you to come play for our school in the A grade. I'm fairly sure our most famed school has a post for Recruitment Officer the amount of poaching they do. For the teacher in the smaller school you help develop a player with training after school and then off they go to after a phone call promising All Ireland's. If I seem bitter it is because I am.

Their has been a great debate on here after the under 20 defeat about strength and conditioning. Another is needed about secondary school hurling in Kilkenny. Some of my most memorable days in gaa have being getting to see our great county teams winning all Ireland's (with some players from smaller schools) and my own school winning titles. Unfortunately it's being a while since either happened and I for one cant see things changing in the near future.

citykat

revanaghkk wrote: »

Richie Mulrooney wouldn't regard it as a compliment as he would never refer to any young lad as a dud. With regard to 'his recent record' and overall record, he has managed the KK minors on 5 occasions before 2020 and reached the All Ireland Final every time .... 2008 Won, 2009 Finalists, 2010 Won, 2018 Finalists, 2019 Finalists. To get all 5 teams to the final isn't bad in my opinion!!
The 2019 group hadn't been expected to do anything given their development squad performances at 14, 15, 16.
The best of luck to him, his management team of Adrian Finan, Jimmy Meagher, Sean Kelly and Martin Carey and all those young players who went down to Wexford Park and earned a well deserved win.

How many of Richie's teams have been beaten in the first round? Whenever I see Richie at the helm, that tells me all i need to know about the calibre of a team.

Grats

citykat wrote: »

How many of Richie's teams have been beaten in the first round? Whenever I see Richie at the helm, that tells me all i need to know about the calibre of a team.

Calibre of the man or the team? If it's the team, what was your opinion of last year's team before the championship kicked off?

On a separate issue, just over 3 weeks to start date for senior county training - are we the only county that hasn't appointed a manager yet? So much for winter gym programmes etc.

kilkennyboy

Kilkenny are already back training all with gym programs.

Grats

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Kilkenny are already back training all with gym programs.

As I hadn't heard about a management team for next year I assumed there was no panel selected and therefore no gym programmes.

kilkennyboy

I met some of them in Kieran's gym .training in pods league is only maybe 6 /8 weeks away.

Grats

kilkennyboy wrote: »

I met some of them in Kieran's gym .training in pods league is only maybe 6 /8 weeks away.

Did they say if there is a change in management team?

JJs Left Hand

Are you expecting one?

kilkennyboy

I wouldn't think there is any change. With intercounty coming in feb
No window for anything like that.
A new management team would have about 4 weeks before league not happening

Grats

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Are you expecting one?

Wouldn't say expect, but hoped for some changes such as a dedicated coach and behaviour.

Village87

A lot of unrest amongst current kk squad with Cody continuing. Lot of players want him out. The quick turn around straight into Intercounty action is not going to help things as its hard to see many new players called in. Younger players feel they are better than a lot of some of the players playing and not getting a chance and some of the older players unhappy at tactics or lack of. DJ Carey position in doubt also. It comes across as very unhappy camp at present.

greenspurs

I thought DJ walked away?
He felt that there's only one opinion that counts, so theres no need for anyone else.
Also DJ walked the young lad included in the squad, not just the extended panel.

Alonzo Moseley

Village87 wrote: »

A lot of unrest amongst current kk squad with Cody continuing. Lot of players want him out. The quick turn around straight into Intercounty action is not going to help things as its hard to see many new players called in. Younger players feel they are better than a lot of some of the players playing and not getting a chance and some of the older players unhappy at tactics or lack of. DJ Carey position in doubt also. It comes across as very unhappy camp at present.

Talk of new coaches etc is futile.
Even if there was a Kinenrk or Bevans available, they wouldn't go near the Cody set up
That isn't an insult to Cody, it is just reality.
They would see him as a totemic but intransigent figurehead and would rightly fear not being given carte blanche to pursue and stick with their plan
But most of all they would fear that if it didn't quickly work, there would be a reversion to old ways

Like all great managerial careers, Cody's time is up and he should display all the modesty and humility he is rightly renowned for and recognise this and act
Nicky English said a few years ago he would never coach IC again, simply because the game had moved on too much from him, he just wasn't up to the necessary speed and innovation of the modern game
There is no shame in admitting something like that

A big problem for the county, however, is the massive amount of money the County Board have saved with the Cody set up in the last 21 years (something that Cody doesn't get enough credit for)
But that will be impossible to replicate

The quick turanround will see no change in 2021 however.