Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Comerman

Is the minor game still on this weekend with the lockdown?

Billy Ocean

Comerman wrote: »

Is the minor game still on this weekend with the lockdown?

U20 and U17 off for now

Mad about baa baas

jonniegoogle wrote: »

If he was to step down, who would everyone like to see take on the job of manager and who would you like to see coach the current team??

I think with the off season being so short this year and the fact that he seems to want to stay forever I cant see any changes in management team.. on a slightly different topic..
Cody has always seemed to leave it up to the players during a game to play themselves out of trouble..I f all us amateur experts on here can see that high hopeless ball is not working why can't the players.. look.at the quality of ball tipp limerick etc send to forwards..
I think Donnelly..mullen cody are arguably better at this stage in their careers than a lot of the recently or soon to be retired legends..if they got proper ball into them I think are well capable of doing damage.. keoghan I like in a bonnet maher type of way
All in all I don't believe the doom and gloom and think we are a few tweaks away from being serious contenders again
Delaney and lawlor probably br the 3 and 6 for the next while.. midfield is my biggest concern.. when leahy plays well wr tend to win but is inconsistent
Obviously plenty lads I haven't mentioned but a strong core .. anyway here's to 2021 and hopefully it's a better year in many ways

Fred Daly

Here to all kilkenny supporters far wide a very happy new year hopefully 2021 all our lives will get back to some normality .

Realt Dearg Sec

Fred Daly wrote: »

Here to all kilkenny supporters far wide a very happy new year hopefully 2021 all our lives will get back to some normality .

I hope you mean we're going to be starting a four in a row again. I really liked that normality.

therealdonster

Dennis Walsh printing rumours from this forum in the Sunday Times today lads - and not for the first time either. Hi Dennis, give us a mention at least!!!

Grats

therealdonster wrote: »

Dennis Walsh printing rumours from this forum in the Sunday Times today lads - and not for the first time either. Hi Dennis, give us a mention at least!!!

You're absolutely correct, not for the first time. How clever Denis, great research! ðŸ˜

barneygumble99

Can someone pm me a link to the article. Can’t find it.

dastardly00

barneygumble99 wrote: »

Can someone pm me a link to the article. Can’t find it.

Here's a link to the article (it's still behind the paywall)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/irish-sport/whispering-grows-louder-but-brian-cody-still-at-heart-of-kilkenny-lhwj0bzjl

robwen

Whispering grows louder but Brian Cody still at heart of Kilkenny
Lack of an obvious successor does not stop supporters growing restless
SPORTSFILE
Denis Walsh
Sunday January 03 2021, 12.01am GMT, The Sunday Times

At a sponsor’s launch in December the former Kilkenny hurler Aidan Fogarty gave full voice to the whispering. Kilkenny supporters, he said, were asking questions about Brian Cody: “Should he stay or should he go?” Respectfully, Fogarty framed all of his remarks with a homage to Cody’s staggering achievements as Kilkenny manager, and he repeated the local acceptance that the timing of his departure would never be forced upon him.

But he addressed the change in mood nonetheless. The belief that Cody is the right man to build Kilkenny’s next All-Ireland winning team, it seems, is no longer unanimous on the ground. “When you’re not winning, I think supporters can be fickle,” said Fogarty, “and we haven’t won an All-Ireland in five years. To us, I suppose, that’s nearly a drought.

“So, look, on the Kilkenny front, tongues are beginning to wag alright. It if was any other manager in Kilkenny, I think his head would be on the chopping block. But, it’s Brian, it’s going to be his decision.”

In Kilkenny, the process for appointing a manager is straight forward: the county board executive proposes its preferred candidate and the club delegates accept it or reject it. At the first board meeting of the New Year on Monday week, only Cody’s name will be in the conversation and there won’t be a word of dissent from the floor.

It was suggested earlier this week that Graigue Ballycallan would at least try to whip up some debate, but this has been dismissed out of hand by club officers, who say they have no idea where the suggestion came from.

It is understood, however, that DJ Carey has stepped down as a selector, after just one year in the role. Carey commanded a low profile on match days, particularly in the championship. Under the Covid-19 match day protocols, only the manager and one other member of the management team were allowed on the sideline; for Kilkenny, Martin Comerford was Cody’s wingman.

Because of the restrictions, though, many counties nominated one of their management team to be a hurley-carrier, to maximize the number of key personnel they could get into the venue. For two of Kilkenny’s games Carey performed that role, on the far side of Croke Park, with no obvious tele-communications link to the other selectors on the near side.

Who will replace Carey? Will a replacement be identified with more than one eye on succession? The obvious candidate for such a role is Henry Shefflin. It is our understanding that Cody approached Shefflin about getting involved at the beginning of last season, but Shefflin declined the invitation.

After he led Ballyhale Shamrocks to successive All-Ireland club titles Shefflin took a year out from coaching, but he has committed to Thomastown for the coming season, an intermediate team only a few miles from where he lives. Could his arm be twisted to change course? Unlikely.

Much like Sir Alex Ferguson at Manchester United, there is no question that Cody will have a massive influence on the appointment of his successor, whenever that day comes. When James McGarry and Derek Lyng were appointed to the management team in 2014 the general assumption was that this was the beginning of their apprenticeships, and that one of them would ultimately take the reins.

McGarry is still part of the management team, but the likelihood of him taking over has receded over time. Derek Lyng stepped away after the 2019 All-Ireland final and took over as the Kilkenny U-20 manager, alongside Peter Barry and Michael Rice, all of whom were hugely respected players from the first half of Cody’s reign. When that management team was assembled it carried all the hallmarks of a senior management team in embryo.

A poor performance against Galway in the Leinster semi-final before Christmas was an early setback, but nothing as alarming as Kilkenny’s defeat to Westmeath in Eddie Brennan’s first year in the role; the trajectory of Brennan career in management since then has been hugely impressive, and he appears now on every short list of possible successors to Cody.

Would Kilkenny’s chances of winning the 2021 All-Ireland be any greater if somebody other than Cody was in charge? Given the players at Kilkenny’s disposal right now, it’s hard to see how that would be the case.

For Kilkenny to win the Leinster final against the head last year was another illustration of the gumption that Cody has instilled in all his teams, but Kilkenny’s second half performances against Dublin and Waterford revealed a kind of vulnerability that would be anathema to him, and would have been inconceivable for the vast majority of Cody’s time in charge. In recent years, those spells of faintness have become an unexpected feature of Kilkenny’s seasons.

Cody never had any truck with the notion of a team “in transition”. It was his purpose, always, to win the next All-Ireland. He has managed that 11 times, more than any other manager in the history of the GAA.

His stamina is truly remarkable. When Kilkenny played Waterford in the All-Ireland semi-final, Liam Cahill was the 101st different manager he had faced in 22 seasons.

But he will stop one day soon and the question of his successor is still unresolved. Kilkenny have kicked the can down the road, for another year at least.

JJs Left Hand

101 different managers is an outrageous stat in fairness

Rosita

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

101 different managers is an outrageous stat in fairness

Must've been a quiet day for whoever decided to do that count.

Grats

It's only 4th January but Denis Walsh has to be in line for sports journalist of the year for his highly investigative article! Some research went into that!

kksaints

Grats wrote: »

It's only 4th January but Denis Walsh has to be in line for sports journalist of the year for his highly investigative article! Some research went into that!

Blows anything that Mark Tighe and Paul Rowntree did regards John Delaney and the FAI out of the water.

dastardly00

kksaints wrote: »

Blows anything that Mark Tighe and Paul Rowntree did regards John Delaney and the FAI out of the water.

I wonder did Cody try to get a super injunction to block the publication :pac:

brookville

Do we know who is replacing dj as selector?when is management due to be ratified?

Fred Daly

Would anybody venture in there to replace Dj things must have deterating seriously with Cody.

Grats

Fred Daly wrote: »

Would anybody venture in there to replace Dj things must have deterating seriously with Cody.

Well if Gorta stays there perhaps the focus should be on DJ and his real reason leaving.

Fred Daly

Grats wrote: »

Well if Gorta stays there perhaps the focus should be on DJ and his real reason leaving.

From what you hear Martin is holding the whole thing together.

Village87

Interesting few weeks a head as clubs are building up momentum against the structures put in place by Ned Quinn and other officials that took the power away from clubs in the selection process for managers.

kkclubhurling

Village87 wrote: »

Interesting few weeks a head as clubs are building up momentum against the structures put in place by Ned Quinn and other officials that took the power away from clubs in the selection process for managers.

Is this based off your own club or AGMs or why do you think this?

Alonzo Moseley

Village87 wrote: »

Interesting few weeks a head as clubs are building up momentum against the structures put in place by Ned Quinn and other officials that took the power away from clubs in the selection process for managers.

I hope that is true
All empires end and what worked well for so long can become a millstone if blindly persevered with in a new era

The bit in Walsh's article where he says his understanding is that Cody will effectively handpick his successor would really worry me if true and cannot be allowed happen

History shows this type of approach invariably fails
And I don't think it is a coincidence that Walsh references Ferguson's handpicking of Moyes
Walsh is politely pointing out that this is a hazardous approach that generally fails.
Busby hanging around dictating things after he left is another good example

Cody was the last great manager of a different time
The last of the iconic ruthless "my way or the highway", flog them hard, build an iron will in a squad, no sentiment or hand on shoulder stuff etc
Heffo, Micko, Loughnane etc
Cody was the best and most successful of that genre but that era is over

Picking some sort of Cody doppelganger in 2021 is doomed to failure

greenspurs

Media outlets running with the DJ leaving story now.
linking him with the Carlow job. ?

Grats

greenspurs wrote: »

Media outlets running with the DJ leaving story now.
linking him with the Carlow job. ?

I wonder will Mickey Comerford join him in Carlow!

jonniegoogle

Grats wrote: »

Well if Gorta stays there perhaps the focus should be on DJ and his real reason leaving.

Perhaps not.
Perhaps the question should be asked of the men Cody surrounds himself with? If Cody is as much a dictator as people say, surely anyone that stays around would have to be classed as a "yes man". Does Carey deserve credit for standing his ground and not wasting his time trying to get his ideas across when he knows his ideas won't be given consideration?

Grats

jonniegoogle wrote: »

Perhaps not.
Perhaps the question should be asked of the men Cody surrounds himself with? If Cody is as much a dictator as people say, surely anyone that stays around would have to be classed as a "yes man". Does Carey deserve credit for standing his ground and not wasting his time trying to get his ideas across when he knows his ideas won't be given consideration?

If you read a previous post from me I said if DJ leaves because his ideas weren't been listened to I say fair play to him. But it was highly rumoured he got sulky when his own son wasn't included in the match day panel. If that's the case, I say fair play to Cody.

Must love hardship

Grats wrote: »

If you read a previous post from me I said if DJ leaves because his ideas weren't been listened to I say fair play to him. But it was highly rumoured he got sulky when his own son wasn't included in the match day panel. If that's the case, I say fair play to Cody.

Without knowing the full story its only speculation. Maybe he felt its best to let his son take his chance without him being involved in the county set up. It might be best for all parties involved.
But in the match you talk about with Billy ryan and deegan out there was places up for grabs in the 26.

On the other hand Cody was not shy about promoting his own onto the panel when arguably there was better options available.

Grats

Must love hardship wrote: »

On the other hand Cody was not shy about promoting his own onto the panel when arguably there was better options available.

I didn't agree with that at the time either.

therealdonster

Must love hardship wrote: »

Without knowing the full story its only speculation. Maybe he felt its best to let his son take his chance without him being involved in the county set up. It might be best for all parties involved.
But in the match you talk about with Billy ryan and deegan out there was places up for grabs in the 26.

On the other hand Cody was not shy about promoting his own onto the panel when arguably there was better options available.

That us true. I seem to remember Diarmuid getting parachuted into the match day panel for the AI one year at the expense of someone. Donnacha got more chances than he probably deserved too.

Fred Daly

We need a new approach badly the whole thing is gone very stale, talking to one of the lads involved with the kilkenny supporters club Dublin what he said was very interesting.