Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

conor05

therealdonster wrote: »

That us true. I seem to remember Diarmuid getting parachuted into the match day panel for the AI one year at the expense of someone. Donnacha got more chances than he probably deserved too.

He made sure both of them picked up an All Ireland medal anyway.

Diarmuid wasn’t the first cousin of a senior county hurler.

kilkennyboy

Sooner they get him ratified the better. Vacuum leaves space for nonsense journalism and nasty comments from vested opinions.

Grats

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Sooner they get him ratified the better. Vacuum leaves space for nonsense journalism and nasty comments from vested opinions.

I agree but the County Board are to blame for allowing the vacuum to develop. They should have met the week after the Waterford match to review the year and come up with ways to improve things for the coming year. Then invite Brian Cody in for a meeting to discuss their review and establish what his plans are.

2 to 3 weeks time frame, done and dusted well before Christmas with an agreed plan. No vacuum.

Alonzo Moseley

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Sooner they get him ratified the better. Vacuum leaves space for nonsense journalism and nasty comments from vested opinions.

Denis Walsh is a good journalist who works for a good paper
By all accounts, he is also is a very sound, decent and approachable one.

Rubber stamping Cody's appointment without an iota of debate every year is not in my opinion healthy

There is undoubtedly at least some disquiet about whether Cody's style of management is as effective as it once was
As the most successful manager in GAA history, that is something any prominent GAA journalist will take a look in to.

Also, what "nasty comments" have been made and by what "vested opinions"?

kilkennyboy

therealdonster wrote: »

Dennis Walsh printing rumours from this forum in the Sunday Times today lads - and not for the first time either. Hi Dennis, give us a mention at least!!!

Careful or he might quote you.
Few statements that clubs have no say is bull****.
executive propose a manager for ratification and if clubs want to debate it that is their chance i have opposed appointments in our own club in the past and it goes to vote.
Plenty things said here about cody both his managerial style and personality. Lots off very average hurlers in this county have plenty medals in their pockets because of decision he has made.
The Carey situation from what i have heard has grown legs of its own
Covid regulation stated they couldn't be on the line together and from what I've seen of his lad Wouldn't be on my 26 either

Village87

conor05 wrote: »

He made sure both of them picked up an All Ireland medal anyway.

Diarmuid wasn’t the first cousin of a senior county hurler.

Although I'm long gone from the Village. Brian Cody and Diarmuid have very little to do with the club after a dispute between the management team Cody was part of and the other 2 members during half time of club championship match. The 2 other management members wanted to take Diarmuid off at half time but Brian totally lost it at the idea of it. Diarmuid started the 2nd half and as soon as Cody went over to the far side of the field Diarmuid was whipped off. Brian completely lost it. He has not had much of an input since then

Alonzo Moseley

Village87 wrote: »

Although I'm long gone from the Village. Brian Cody and Diarmuid have very little to do with the club after a dispute between the management team Cody was part of and the other 2 members during half time of club championship match. The 2 other management members wanted to take Diarmuid off at half time but Brian totally lost it at the idea of it. Diarmuid started the 2nd half and as soon as Cody went over to the far side of the field Diarmuid was whipped off. Brian completely lost it. He has not had much of an input since then

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that but does explain why we haven't seen Diarmuid in last two years
He would, in my opinion, be plenty good enough to play senior club

Donnacha feel just short, but any inter-county manager 13-14 years ago would have tried him out
He was well worth a look, fine player
I remember seeing him at underage and rated him almost as good as Tennyson (whom I thought was outstanding)

Also, apropos the younger Codys and Careys, being the son of an absolute GAA legend cannot be easy
Watching the Ring documentary and seeing his son Christy.
I rem when the son was getting a few good reviews back 40 years ago and even as a kid I remember thinking how hard it must be for him especially sharing the same name
"not a patch on the auld lad.."



Cody really reminds me a lot of Heffo more so than other ruthless managers like Micko or Loughnane, both of whom were more fond of the limelight, had that touch of mischievousness allied to the steel.

I have heard some unbelievable stuff about Heffo over the years, and his callousness and aloofness when dealing with players is very like Cody.
It's bloody effective but it does leave scars

Liam Hayes' book on Heffo is brilliant


But like Heffo, Cody does have an ego, no matter how hard he insists otherwise
And like Heffo, you should take with a grain of salt Cody's long-held claim that he doesn't listen to or read commentary about his teams or himself
It is next to impossible not to.

kkclubhurling

For what it’s worth Diarmuid Cody was definitely a part of James Stephens panel last year, he played against O’Loughlins and I think he played another game at least.

Fred Daly

Did he not come on in the second half of the match against the Shamrocks.

tbiggertycome

Diarmuid has had to retire from hurling due to an injury from what I've heard I think it's his shoulder could be wrong on that though.

tbiggertycome

A good article by PM O'Sullivan which gives a very balanced view on the whole debate.

From today's Irish Examiner

PM O'Sullivan: A growing sense that something lies amiss in Kilkenny hurling
Most of the current players are known to be frustrated about the lack of pre-match analysis and consequent difficulties when an alternative plan is required for stretches of a game
PM O'Sullivan: A growing sense that something lies amiss in Kilkenny hurling
This evening, Brian Cody will be ratified. He faces his 24th season as Kilkenny hurling manager. We have probably lost sight of how awesome an achievement this stint represents. Picture: Stephen McCarthy

MON, 11 JAN, 2021 - 07:00
PM O’Sullivan
New starts can involve familiar decisions.

This evening, the Kilkenny County Board will put forward its chosen management team at various levels, minor to senior, for ratification by club delegates. These figures, should they wish, can halt the process by entering a countermotion. Contrary to some comment, this possibility is a longstanding one.

Speculation drifted around, like smoke from an invisible fire, over the last fortnight. Talk about a possible glitch in what has long been a seamless process, talk of one club wondering about an alternative candidate for senior manager. Or at least of the club wanting to initiate a debate: ‘Is it time for a change?’

My sense is that soundings were taken, a telling enough development, but faltered due to the tight schedule involved. Inter-county resumption looked a near horizon, until this virus swung back hard. Had Kilkenny been beaten last July in an All-Ireland semi-final, the dynamic might well have been different.

Aidan ‘Taggy’ Fogarty remarked in early December: “We haven’t won an All-Ireland in five years and to us, I suppose, that’s nearly a drought.”

He continued: “If it was any other manager in Kilkenny, I think his head would be on the chopping block.”

The former forward’s word carried weight.

This evening, Brian Cody will be ratified. He faces his 24th season in the job. We have probably lost sight of how awesome an achievement this stint represents. And Cody keeps driving ahead in exactly the same fashion, a GAA volunteer among GAA volunteers. This aspect is not least of his achievements.

Yet no smoke can arise in a vacuum, because a fire requires oxygen. To say otherwise would be disingenuous. The enabling atmosphere is a growing sense within the county that something lies amiss in its hurling. Hardly anyone feels an All-Ireland senior title ended up squandered in recent times. There is just a conviction that the seniors are not doing themselves full justice.

Does Kilkenny’s hurling lack sophistication? Have other counties’ puckout gambits and preparation regimes gone into the distance? Limerick remain the leading case in point, naturally, even though Kilkenny beat them last year.

I find the situation complex and in some ways opaque. Recent seasons saw lamentably blunt displays, tactically, against Wexford and yet this assessment is not full picture.

Item: a quick puckout to Jackie Tyrrell at left corner-back, in 2000’s heyday, stayed an arrow in the quiver. Tyrrell’s massive drive off left side would clear the opposition half-back line, negating their desire to withdraw a full-forward as cover. There was no fuss about this option, one infrequently deployed as opponents knew its implication: do not let this Kilkenny team reach their full-forward line off their own puckout.

Again, Brian Cody devised an excellent riposte to Clare’s use of Alan Markham as a sweeper in 2004’s All-Ireland quarter-final. For that replay, Martin Comerford got sent to shadow Markham and Clare’s supposed trump became the wrong suit. Cody likewise devised a means of dismantling the Cork puckout for 2006’s senior final, marking zonally at the back, emphasising their half-forward line’s lack of fetchers.

From this angle, the problem is not tactical unawareness per se. Not so, based on early and middle parts of Cody’s career. What is the reason behind eschewing similar pragmatism now? The point is opaque.

Hardly anyone in Kilkenny, least of all me, wants to see hurling played by Tim Tappy and Tom Tippy. But most of the current players are known to be frustrated about the lack of pre-match analysis and consequent difficulties when an alternative plan is required for stretches of a game.
Cody’s mantra about attackers ‘winning their own ball’ is one I admire. This emphasis served defiantly well as default setting and left no excuses for laziness or shyness. But you would imagine there could be a halfway house in the camp where bespoke preparation might meet intense application.

But here, I am told, stands a bugbear. The camp is not a vibrant place. Since 2017, I keep hearing the same descriptions.

Stale … A drag … Joyless … These terms are repeated in dispiriting degree. And lack of vibrancy seemed to be reflected, this winter, in Kilkenny’s dramatic second-half collapses against Dublin and Waterford. Here is what most deeply concerns supporters, some kind of dry rot in the hurlers’ morale, despite evident periods of resilience.

Yet any notion that a new manager would make all well strikes me as simplistic. There are other medium-term issues that require urgent attention.

Take juvenile development squads. Here nestles a certain irony, in that Kilkenny were in the vanguard, in 2001 under Ned Quinn, on this front. But the last three or four years witnessed vociferous local criticism of the squads in various regards. The mood music altered, big time.

People love to give out and normally I would not pay too much heed. But this hubbub has been too sustained, too consistent in its queries, not to contain substance.

A new coaching officer in the county board did get elected in 2020. Most observers thought the swerve useful. The hope is that this man will reshape the system, attracting a new flush of mentors and trainers who can develop young players for long haul.

Relatedly or not, there is another urgent issue, a pattern where promising hurlers are not training on from minor. A flat performance in 2017, losing the U21 All-Ireland final to Limerick, became representative disappointment in this regard. The U20s’ recent display in their Leinster semi-final, flaccidly losing to Galway, extended this narrative.
I do not know Brian Cody in the slightest. But I do know, like the majority of GAA people in the county, Ned Quinn a small bit. Quinn remains an immensely capable individual. There is also a drive to him I always relished. He would go through a sceach ditch for Mooncoin, for Kilkenny, for hurling.

But where is the next Ned Quinn? Then again, maybe this query becomes too much to ask. You do not need an MBA from Harvard Business School to know an entity created by two strong-minded singular men in the success phase will encounter difficulties in this entity’s transition phase.

Brickbats are not necessarily required. Who knows where the time goes, as Sandy Denny had it. Maybe sport falls, twice over, into seasons. Kilkenny, driven by wise bitterness and brilliant hurlers, were great. Now Kilkenny, beset by staleness and much less gifted hurlers, are far from great. Any surprise there?

Not so much. Anyhow, I was a Kilkenny supporter before this writing lark started and I will be a Kilkenny supporter when this writing lark finishes. Ballyhale Shamrocks made me.

I feel the same way about Kilkenny hurling as I feel about The Fall and John Williams’ Butcher’s Crossing (1960), gratitude at being alive to witness such unforgiving brilliance. To watch Tommy Walsh hurl was like listening to ‘I Feel Voxish’, the same acceleration of possibilities. The best of life is undeceived joy.

But not all of life can be joy. And now Kilkenny folk must find education in all sorts.

Cody in numbers

By Leo McGough

105:

Cody, from 1999 to 2020, has managed Kilkenny in 105 championship games, steering the Cats to 78 wins, eight draws, and suffering 19 defeats, 10 of which have come since (and including) the 2016 All-Ireland final when their drive for an unprecedented five-in-a-row came to a halt.

11, 16, and 9: 11 All-Ireland, 16 Leinster, and nine NHL titles as manager, a total major trophy haul of 36. Throw in seven Walsh Cups and an Oireachtas crown and the tally rises to 44.

24: Cody, from 1973 to 1985, played 24 championship games with Kilkenny, 23 as a starter, 19 in defence, and four at full forward.

3, 4, and 2: He won three All-Ireland senior medals — 1975, 1982 (as captain), 1983 — four Leinster and two NHL — 1975-76 and 1981-82 (as captain) as a player, a total major trophy haul of nine.

1 and 1: As a man who has often called a player ashore, Cody himself only experienced the curly finger once in championship fare, replaced by Joe Hennessy, a fellow Village clubman, in the 49th minute of the 1976 Leinster final in Croke Park when Wexford were resounding winners. Cody also made one appearance as a sub, coming on in the 13th minute in place of full-back Jim Moran in Kilkenny’s unsuccessful 1981 Leinster semi-final with Wexford.

4-10: It might come as a surprise that Cody’s championship scoring tally stands at a respectable 4-10, 3-6 of which came in 1978 when, sited at full-forward, he scored 2-2 (v Offaly in Portlaoise), 0-2 (v Wexford in the Leinster final), and 1-2 (v Galway, All-Ireland semi-final). He failed to score in the All-Ireland final v Cork.

Grats

I agree with your summary, an interesting article with a balanced view.

greenspurs

Done deal according to Kilkenny People ?

https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/content/sport/600894/brian-cody-to-stay-on-as-cats-boss-but-dj-leaves-selector-role.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

tbiggertycome

greenspurs wrote: »

Done deal according to Kilkenny People ?

https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/content/sport/600894/brian-cody-to-stay-on-as-cats-boss-but-dj-leaves-selector-role.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Don't think there's any doubt it's a done deal.

ClubFirst

I'd imagine we will see a raft of Retirements over the next 2 weeks!!!

Grats

ClubFirst wrote: »

I'd imagine we will see a raft of Retirements over the next 2 weeks!!!

Over the next 2 days!

Village87

Plenty of Ballyhale lads ready to retire by the sounds of it. Hopefully TJ stays on. Richie Reid considering walking away

ClubFirst

Village87 wrote: »

Plenty of Ballyhale lads ready to retire by the sounds of it. Hopefully TJ stays on. Richie Reid considering walking away

And you would not blame them, will be more than Ballyhale players id say!!

Grats

ClubFirst wrote: »

And you would not blame them, will be more than Ballyhale players id say!!

Paul Murphy, Joey Holden, D Mullen, L Blanchfield, R Hogan, C Fennelly, W Walsh, C Fogarty.

JJs Left Hand

Why do people think that? Because Cody is going to be appointed again or have I missed something

kkclubhurling

Grats wrote: »

Paul Murphy, Joey Holden, D Mullen, L Blanchfield, R Hogan, C Fennelly, W Walsh, C Fogarty.

I saw 2 of those guys on separate days following the KK running programme in the last week...

Grats

kkclubhurling wrote: »

I saw 2 of those guys on separate days following the KK running programme in the last week...

Strange that any player was following a programme when we didn't have a manager ratified.

Village87

Grats wrote: »

Strange that any player was following a programme when we didn't have a manager ratified.

Watching the highlights of Kk v Waterford semi final here on TnaG. Paddy Deegan is not near the level required. One of the worst performances I have ever seen in a Kilkenny jersey

Fred Daly

Village87 wrote: »

Plenty of Ballyhale lads ready to retire by the sounds of it. Hopefully TJ stays on. Richie Reid considering walking away

So you reckon we are going to have a show down like Cork, we all know things are not good that second half v Waterford was a disaster it showed on the players face when the whistle went. 2020 was an awful year i think people like Paddy Deggan does not need reminding of what your opinion of his display, people are struggling mentally physical these days.

kilkennyboy

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/news/read/id/3001
Carey going only change

Village87

Fred Daly wrote: »

So you reckon we are going to have a show down like Cork, we all know things are not good that second half v Waterford was a disaster it showed on the players face when the whistle went. 2020 was an awful year i think people like Paddy Deggan does not need reminding of what your opinion of his display, people are struggling mentally physical these days.

The chap is just not up to it. Years of investment with training,S & C and game time when others could be in there. He is 26 now and never will be up to it. As of the list of lads ready to retire. Paul Murphy, Conor Fogarty, Cillian Buckley, Joey Holden can all move on. They have been poor last 4/5 years. Time to invest in some new blood. This is now an old team and we need to re build IMO

Fred Daly

kilkennyboy wrote: »

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/news/read/id/3001
Carey going only change

A big change could not see much of improvement with that back room team.

Alonzo Moseley

Very good point (senior squad members following training programmes for last few weeks) and again emphasises that the process of appointing the senior management team is nothing more than an annual rubber-stamping job

Noddy33

Village87 wrote: »

The chap is just not up to it. Years of investment with training,S & C and game time when others could be in there. He is 26 now and never will be up to it. As of the list of lads ready to retire. Paul Murphy, Conor Fogarty, Cillian Buckley, Joey Holden can all move on. They have been poor last 4/5 years. Time to invest in some new blood. This is now an old team and we need to re build IMO

We are all entitled so our own opinions but this is actually one of the most disrespectful and ridiculous posts I have ever seen on this forum. Cillian Buckley will be the first to tell you of no doubt massive frustrations with injury the last 2 years but the chap is only 28 years old and when fully fit is one the best wing backs in the game ever from the last 20 years

Village87

Noddy33 wrote: »

We are all entitled so our own opinions but this is actually one of the most disrespectful and ridiculous posts I have ever seen on this forum. Cillian Buckley will be the first to tell you of no doubt massive frustrations with injury the last 2 years but the chap is only 28 years old and when fully fit is one the best wing backs in the game ever from the last 20 years

Cillian Buckley has been very average the last few years. When all the retirements came during the early to mid noughties I expected him to step it up and be a leader. He has been poor since then. He is just too slow now. Waterford ran through the middle in the semi final on far to many occasion. Walsh, Buckley and Deegan are just too slow for modern game half back line. I watched him closely this year v OLG in the club semi final and he got took for 7 points from play.