Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Village87

Great win for Dublin last night, excellent match, very high standard. Worrying for Kilkenny that there is serious competition in Leinster now. Galway, Dublin, Wexford are arguable ahead or on par with Kilkenny over the last 10 years. Offaly are trying very hard the last few years and results are starting show. Is this a decline in Kilkenny hurling or a rise in overall standard ?

kkclubhurling

Kilkenny will quite likely win a Leinster u18 (last years u17) in a week or so, it’s a strong team that will have a great chance in an All Ireland.

This years u17s will also be very strong, back boned by 2 hurlers who are as promising as anything we’ve seen in a few years.

Our current u20s consist of players from 2 All Ireland losing minor teams and will be a very decent outfit aswell.

In 2 months time I wouldn’t be surprised to hear people heralding in a forthcoming new golden era..

As for Brassil, he wasn’t cut, he left for personal reasons, he’s only 22 so hopefully he will be back in the future for a long and successful career with Kilkenny.

Village87

kkclubhurling wrote: »

Kilkenny will quite likely win a Leinster u18 (last years u17) in a week or so, it’s a strong team that will have a great chance in an All Ireland.

This years u17s will also be very strong, back boned by 2 hurlers who are as promising as anything we’ve seen in a few years.

Our current u20s consist of players from 2 All Ireland losing minor teams and will be a very decent outfit aswell.

In 2 months time I wouldn’t be surprised to hear people heralding in a forthcoming new golden era..

As for Brassil, he wasn’t cut, he left for personal reasons, he’s only 22 so hopefully he will be back in the future for a long and successful career with Kilkenny.

Who are the 2 promising hurlers playing minor ?, great to hear of some talent coming through.

Kilkenny have lost the 2019 and 2018 Leinster finals fairly comprehensively, I was at the Wexford game in Croke Park 2019 and Wexford were much the better team. If this is a Golden generation then Wexford Dublin and Galway must also be having a golden generation

JJs Left Hand

A lad from the Boro is one anyway.

Interested to hear who the second is...

Edited to remove names as they're only 16/17 and they shouldn't be discussed online really

Grats

kkclubhurling wrote: »

Kilkenny will quite likely win a Leinster u18 (last years u17) in a week or so, it’s a strong team that will have a great chance in an All Ireland.

This years u17s will also be very strong, back boned by 2 hurlers who are as promising as anything we’ve seen in a few years.

Our current u20s consist of players from 2 All Ireland losing minor teams and will be a very decent outfit aswell.

In 2 months time I wouldn’t be surprised to hear people heralding in a forthcoming new golden era..

As for Brassil, he wasn’t cut, he left for personal reasons, he’s only 22 so hopefully he will be back in the future for a long and successful career with Kilkenny.

Great positive post, thank you. And for update on Brassil.

Alonzo Moseley

Village87 wrote: »

Great win for Dublin last night, excellent match, very high standard. Worrying for Kilkenny that there is serious competition in Leinster now. Galway, Dublin, Wexford are arguable ahead or on par with Kilkenny over the last 10 years. Offaly are trying very hard the last few years and results are starting show. Is this a decline in Kilkenny hurling or a rise in overall standard ?

It was a really good match and a great win for Dubs.
Not the shock many are saying.
That Galway team are no world beaters (the next two Galway U20s are top-notch) and that Dublin team were stacked with lads that won the Leinster Colleges in 2018 v an SKC team including Mullen and Cody.
Dubs were quietly confident.

But they have an abysmal record in underage finals and semis outside Leinster in the last 20 years.

Also interesting to see that Luke Swan (who destroyed us twice at minor in 2018) was a no-show for Dubs, so their 20-year seepage of their very best hurlers to football is continuing.
This will greatly mitigate against them making the leap from competitive to top contenders in hurling


I think we are definitely ahead of Dublin though in the 16-21 age group, and are well ahead of Wexford (irrespective of 2019 minor loss).

As for Galway, they seem to have the U17 system nailed but struggle to kick on from that.
While they beat us in 2018 and hammered us in 2019, we beat both Munster finalists in each year, so no questions we were easily best of rest (despite losing back to back Leinster finals, i don't believe Dublin or Wexford would have beaten either of the Munster champions as we did).

Notwithstanding the fact it was an above-average Dubs side last night, it does show that Galway were not great and therefore highlights just how poor an effort we put in against them.

Best of luck to Dubs in the final, they have a dismal finals record but Cork's record in the last 10-15 years is nearly as bad.
Both teams will be ravenous for a rare AI win but I think Dublin will give it a great go, I know a few of the players and they are seriously up for it.

Last night will also act as a wake-up call to Galway seniors that Dublin cannot be viewed as a pushover in two weeks' time at senior.
Way too much hype in my opinion about Galway at moment and I feel they have as many issues at back as we do.
pretty much the same crew that has been there for the last 6-7 years and I don't like the look of Shane Cooney at all, not sure about Fintan Burke even though some Galway lads rave about him.
That Galway backline started to creak semi-final v Clare in 2018 and hasn't got any better.
Any word on KK panel
Hogan, Mullen, Delaney...?

Village87

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

A lad from the Boro is one anyway.

Interested to hear who the second is...

Edited to remove names as they're only 16/17 and they shouldn't be discussed online really

Must be a Gowran or Tullogher/Rosbercon player going by the Kilkenny people

JJs Left Hand

I reckon Tullaroan myself.

The club minor is brilliant this year with the competitions rolling through the full summer. Long may it continue.

dzer2

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I reckon Tullaroan myself.

The club minor is brilliant this year with the competitions rolling through the full summer. Long may it continue.

I wouldn't be holding on to too much hope if the chap who I think you are talking about is one of the 2, he can be managed handy enough. And the same for the lad from Tullogher.

Agree on the under age going through the summer these lads need all the games they can get.

Grats

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

A lad from the Boro is one anyway.

Interested to hear who the second is...

Edited to remove names as they're only 16/17 and they shouldn't be discussed online really

Some posters doing their utmost to disclose their names and have a go at them.

kkclubhurling

Grats wrote: »

Some posters doing their utmost to disclose their names and have a go at them.

The clamour for names is frankly weird. As you said they’re 16/17.. the post above this speculating and saying how easily certain players can be handled is again quite bizarre,

Watch the delayed 2020 minor final next week and make your own minds up..

JJs Left Hand

Will that be on TV?

I think the Wexford game was on a Wexford YouTube channel from memory?

Comerman

Grats wrote: »

Some posters doing their utmost to disclose their names and have a go at them.

Nothing new unfortunately

Alonzo Moseley

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Will that be on TV?

I think the Wexford game was on a Wexford YouTube channel from memory?

It's down for 7.30 in Portlaoise following the senior doubleheader, so it's hard to see how it won't get picked up, even at worse on pay option like GAAGO.

Really looking forward to seeing the 2020 minors again. I thought they looked good versus Wexford, very pacy and confident.
But maybe Wexford were poor, hard to know at that age.
Suspect yet again, Galway will be hard beaten.

therealdonster

Village87 - would you ever give it a rest? You are definitely a glass half empty type of person - actually you are a glass empty completely empty type of person. Are you the same person that was making similar doom and gloom posts on kilkennycats.com back in the day when we were winning minors, U21s and seniors galore?

Regarding the underage thing, too much is made of underage success in my opinion. Granted, sometimes you get exceptional underage teams from time to time which produce more than a few good or great seniors. But that is not always necessary for future senior success as history as shown. In fact there is a case for making a case that too much underage success is maybe not always a guarantee of future success - just ask Galway.

Closer to home Kilkenny won 4 minor All Ireland between 1988 and 1993. I recently watched those games on YouTube (bored during pandemicðŸ˜) and the only players who went on to start and win an all ireland with Kilkenny afterwards were DJ Carey, Charlie Carter, Pat O'Neill from the 88 team; PJ Delaney, Denis Byrne, Andy Comerford, Phillip Larkin and Brian McEvoy from the 90/91 team and not one player from the 1993 team ever started in a winning senior all ireland. I might add that the 93 team was viewed as a vintage team at the time, racking up big scores and impressive performances on the way. Some players that were on those panels had decent inter county careers afterwards which highlights how different people develop at different rates and in different ways.

While that is a substantial enough list of great players you would have thought that we would have gotten even more players from such an era of dominance. Yet counties like Clare, Limerick and Wexford won or contested all irelands in the following years despite having almost no underage success with their teams.

Yet teams from the mid 90s to early 00s probably produced as many if not more All irelands with very little relative underage success (99 U21 was about it). Tommy Walsh, Henry Shefflin, Michael Kavanagh, John Hoyne, JJ Delaney etc are a few to mention.

The recent change to U17 and U20 reduces the importance of underage success even more in my opinion. With the U17 panels made up of sometimes 15 year olds not yet turned 16 it is impossible to tell if these lads will develop into top players down the road. A lot will happen with these lads between that age and their early 20s, some might not even be playing the game by then.

Obviously some players will stand out and make it regardless, that will always be the case. However lot of players who don't necessarily stand out or even make the grade at minor will develop better through determination, interest and sheer hard work. Think Eoin Larkin, Brian Hogan, Derek Lyng, Eddie Brennan etc.

I think the minors of the last few years may produce many of these types of players. The 2018-19 AI finalists played a lot of games on route to their respective finals which was brilliant for their development. Some players shone in some games while others did in other games. A lot of them showed lots of potential which can hopefully develop into top inter county players in the next few years if that is what they want to do.

Part of the problem with player development is I think the U20 inter county system needs an overhaul. Players that are U20 should not play senior inter county. Some form of league system needs to be introduced to guarantee counties a number of games to help develop players. Surely this would benefit all counties?

Grats

Therealdonster - I agree with a lot of your post. Galway have the minor level off to a fine art and Kilkenny aren't alone in losing to them over the last number of years. However, as you say, that seems to change as players mature such as our win at under 20 level against them and Dublin just this week.

Re Village87, again you're correct. The poster continuously degrades players, writes off more than half the senior team/panel but when asked to name replacements for those, NEVER responds.

VelaSupernova

Every GAA message needs a resident troll, in our case it is the one and only....Village87

Rosita

therealdonster wrote: »

Village87 - would you ever give it a rest? You are definitely a glass half empty type of person - actually you are a glass empty completely empty type of person. Are you the same person that was making similar doom and gloom posts on kilkennycats.com back in the day when we were winning minors, U21s and seniors

/QUOTE]

The world is made up of different views. Obviously you are going down the road of attracting support by being 'a glass full and I have a couple of more as well' type of person, which is fine, but it doesn't add any greater weight to your views. The idea that someone should "give it a rest" (i.e. 'shut up and get ready for group-think led by me') is a censorship which is not in your gift I would say.

KK36

Rosita wrote: »

therealdonster wrote: »

Village87 - would you ever give it a rest? You are definitely a glass half empty type of person - actually you are a glass empty completely empty type of person. Are you the same person that was making similar doom and gloom posts on kilkennycats.com back in the day when we were winning minors, U21s and seniors

/QUOTE]

The world is made up of different views. Obviously you are going down the road of attracting support by being 'a glass full and I have a couple of more as well' type of person, which is fine, but it doesn't add any greater weight to your views. The idea that someone should "give it a rest" (i.e. 'shut up and get ready for group-think led by me') is a censorship which is not in your gift I would say.

The "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it" school of thought.

randd1

therealdonster wrote: »

Part of the problem with player development is I think the U20 inter county system needs an overhaul. Players that are U20 should not play senior inter county. Some form of league system needs to be introduced to guarantee counties a number of games to help develop players. Surely this would benefit all counties?

This is actually a very good point. I think it's well passed the time that a proper U-20 competition came on board. My own thoughts on it:


- 16 team competition to begin with.


Phase 1 (all games are knockout, finish on the day, no seeding in the draws). Provincial Championships. Munster (6 teams) & Leinster (10 Teams), straight knockout on a weekly basis (4 weeks in total), home & away arrangements in place.


- Week 1; Two games in Leinster; two teams to Leinster QF's, two teams to Qualifiers.
- Week 2; Two Munster QF's, two teams to Munster SF's, two teams to Qualifiers. Four Leinster QF's, four teams to Leinster QF's, four teams to Qualifiers.
- Week 3; Munster Provincial SF's, winners to Provincial Final, losers to Qualifiers. Leinster Provincial SF's, winners to Provincial Final, losers to Qualifiers. Qualifier Round 1 (eight teams, four games, open draw, 4 winners to Qualifiers Round 2, four losers to AI Shield competition)
- Week 4; Munster Final. Leinster Final. Qualifiers Round 2 (four Provincial SF losers vs four Qualifier Round 1 winners), winners to AI Championship, losers to AI Shield.


Phase 2 - AI Championship and AI Shield. Both competitions run on a weekly basis, with a week between the AISF's and final (6 weeks in total).

AI Championship


- Two groups of four. Group 1 (Munster champions, Leinster Finalists, two Qualifier Round 2 winners) and Group 2 (Leinster champions, Munster Finalists, two Qualifier Round 2 winners)
- Three rounds in each group. Top of each group plays second of other group in the AISF's, with the winners to the final.


AI Shield


- Two groups of four. Top two of each group made up of Qualifier Round 2 losers, bottom two of each group made up of Qualifier Round 1 losers.
- Three rounds in each group. Top of each group plays second of other group in the AISF's, with the winners to the final.
- Bottom of each group plays in relegation final.


Notes


- The competition should start in mid February alongside National League. If ran on a weekly basis (with two weeks between the Provincial and AI Championships), it should be finished by May.
- If finished by May, it would allow some players to concentrate on their exams with hurling interfering.
- It also allows for U-20 players to be called into the senior squads for the summer without overlap.
- More games obviously for players to develop (a minimum of 5 a year).
- In order to get to the AI championship, you would have to make the provincial finals or get through the qualifiers (a minimum of two games either way).
- Developing counties aren't shut out from the top table, and don't have to wait a year for another game.
- A proper, dependable and timely competition structure that has meaningful games and plenty of knockout hurling.

JJs Left Hand

What about their clubs? Or their schools? Or their colleges?

randd1

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

What about their clubs?

There's likely to be a split season coming into play. It would also be played at the same time as the National League. So the clubs won't be affected.

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Or their schools?

Schools competitions could also be condensed and completed beforehand, along with the colleges. And in finishing inter-county hurling before May, it provides them with a chance to focus on their studies for their exams without the serious distraction of inter-county hurling. After all the main purposes of school is education. As for potential time conflicts, they're almost certainly training and playing challenge mactehs at that time of year anyway, so nothing changes there.

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Or their colleges?

The competition would start in mid February. The college competitions are usually finished by then.

Rosita

KK36 wrote: »

Rosita wrote: »

The "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it" school of thought.

Precisely

ShamoBuc

Mod

Closing the thread as we are approaching 10,000 posts.

Link to new thread below.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058196128