Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Orizio

dubcat51 wrote: »

Agree totally kilkenny boy.have felr the suppirters have been milked the past 3 weeks and not fair on players.xtra time should have been played furst day v galway.I for 1 wont be renewinf season ticket next year not the value it was.any team pkaying 3 games in a row are on a hiding to nothing.probably why cody tried to freshen it up bur backfired.bad decision by ref not to give free to donnelly at crucial point.2 point swing and  pribably cost us along with tge liss of wally.

So KK losing had absolutely nothing to do with the opposition?

dastardly00

There has been some embarrassing posts in the GAA forum before, but this has to be right up near the top...

Slieve Gullion wrote: »

Ah well, the tables have turned on these two counties heretofore. KK will be trotting after us for the next forty or so years after yesterday.

Who was your man that fella Jim Farrol, was it? No, Jim Tisels? No, twas Jacky, Jacky Tyrell, that's him. Didn't he write a book last year revealing the lot about the way you guys do ye're business with regard to ye're approach to hurling. Tut tut that was an awful mistake ye made, of course with Cody's stamp of approval into the bargain. Talk about shooying yourself in the foot, own goals etc etc. That was a major miscalculation on ye're part there. Now ye've been relegated to the whipping boys of Leinster and the sympathy cases of the A I series, an awful shame but ye've only ye'reselves to thank. Off to the wilderness now for ye. Good luck and thanks.

Moosey15

People should know by now not to feed trolls.A huge amount of bitterness has built up towards Kilkenny through the years ,but that comes with success ,everyone wants to knock you.Its important the the Kilkenny public stick with it and have patience.I agree one or two team selections recently have been bizarre and a number of players who have seen action this year are not up to it or never will be , but they are our players and they wear our jersey. Ive been saying it for years that James Mcgrath would one day do a number on us in a tight game and lo and behold he did ,but I wouldnt use it as an excuse ,we have struggled for scores all year and for the most part you could'nt see where a goal was coming from. Also we have had a very poor spread of scorers in the forwards.

Comerman

Slieve Gullion wrote: »

no more to be said on the matter.

Please god

Pigeon Chaser

Slieve Gullion. You are a strange individual.

seligehgit

Mod Warning

Slieve Gullion do not post on this thread again or you will face a ban.

citykat

I dont know. Who knows what its like to wait 45 years for a victory. Who knows what its like to come up against a team repeatedly and get sent home with your tail firmly between your legs. Who knows what it's like when the result is apparent after about 10 mins but you have to sit and look at the best hurlers in your county come second best yet again. Who knows what its like when you have no idea how to celebrate a victory. All you can think is, lets go online and act like a fool. Worst of all who knows what its like to feel this is a probably a one-off and come next year that 45 year drought will start all over again.

laneykin

Enough said at this stage I think. On to clubs talk?

Dionysis

The problem with the senior team is the U21 and minor teams, something needs to be done ASAP. Especially with the U21. We need development squads for this level.

I thought I heard yesterday that Galway have 60 players training at minor level. Four teams. They use the surplus for training games and giving other bounties challenge matches. Does anyone know if this is true?

Back to U21 - we need an extraordinary county meeting to deal with this.

Charlie69

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

A grown man typed this.

I'd have my doubts:)

Cornerback1

brookville wrote: »

First off congratulations to limerick it was a great match and either team could of won but infairness to limerick the finished the match the stronger team and responded great to richies goal.
I could not believe what i was hearing when the rumours were going around the match that pat lyng and lennon were starting.
i thought buckley looked to be carrying a injury but james maher has being a great find for us this year.Leahy and donnelly were both brillant when they cane on and thats why id be positive about the future,wally and a fit kevin kelly would of also being a big addition.
I dont know why delaney has slipped so much but hopefully next year we settle on a full back early and release padraig out to the wing maybe cleere will be ready to slot into 6 and have buckley and walsh on the wings.
i wouldnt mind seeing the backroom changed up but overall despite what people might say we're after blooding a lot of youngsters which will hopefully stand to us.I dont imagine there'll be many retirements.
we've had a better year than most expected thanks lads for the year

You always talk sense a chara - no kneejerk reactions 2 hours after the game!!

Cornerback1

Dionysis wrote: »

The problem with the senior team is the U21 and minor teams, something needs to be done ASAP. Especially with the U21. We need development squads for this level.

I thought I heard yesterday that Galway have 60 players training at minor level. Four teams. They use the surplus for training games and giving other bounties challenge matches. Does anyone know if this is true?

Back to U21 - we need an extraordinary county meeting to deal with this.

I think they had 3 teams in the U17 Celtic Challenge - 2 U16 development teams from hurling clubs and 1 U17 team from the 'football clubs'. I could be wrong?

They then had an U17 squad in the Leinster minor championship competition.

I'm not sure how many teams KK had in the Celtic Challenge. Next year they should put 3 U16 teams in and 1 team in the U17 Leinster minor competition. There can't be a crossover over though.

Cornerback1

Eoin Murphy is the best keeper I have ever saw.

brookville

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Eoin Murphy is the best keeper I have ever saw.

we're blessed to have murphy but also very lucky to have darren brennan as our sub goalie his a very good shot stopper snd has plenty of confidence.
I know its hard to get excited about the club so soon after an exit but im looking foward to the club championship you would expect the shamrocks to very close but its a few years since they won now.
ive being very impressed with mullinavat any time i saw them and they pushed the boro hard twice last year and are a balanced hard working team

laneykin

brookville wrote: »

we're blessed to have murphy but also very lucky to have darren brennan as our sub goalie his a very good shot stopper snd has plenty of confidence.
I know its hard to get excited about the club so soon after an exit but im looking foward to the club championship you would expect the shamrocks to very close but its a few years since they won now.
ive being very impressed with mullinavat any time i saw them and they pushed the boro hard twice last year and are a balanced hard working team

Agreed on Brennan, he's shown already this year that he is a great sub goalie to have if we're ever without Murphy. I personally am still in awe at Murphy's performance yesterday though, unbelievable talent. And anyone inside and outside of Kilkenny that I have spoken to about the match yesterday all commented on how outstanding Murphy was.

Looking forward to clubs myself, been supporting Shamrocks the last few years so would be hoping they can do well this year. It'll be interesting to see what the likes of Clara and O'Loughlins are like too, Clara I thought were poor enough last year so surely will want to go further this year.

conor05

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

A grown man typed this.

If my 8 year old typed out a paragraph like that at home, his mother would go through him for a shortcut!

Walter.White

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

Slieve Gullion. You are a strange individual.

I wouldn't listen to what he has to say..the majority of Limerick fans have nothing but respect and admiration for Kilkenny hurling. A few of us might have got carried away with celebrations but it was a massive victory for us to finally win a close game against such a great team. I felt Walter Walsh was a massive loss for Kilkenny and if ye had a fully fit Walsh , hogan and fennelly the last few results could have been much different.
I enjoyed a great game of hurling between two teams who gave it their all yesterday. I'm sure Kilkenny will be back as strong as ever next year,

greenspurs

Orizio wrote: »

You do realise the AI championship doesn't finish when KK are knocked out right?

well, it does finish, for Kilkenny ................. :rolleyes:

greenspurs

Speakerboxx wrote: »

You are making out that KK were just as good Limerick today only for the saves Limerick would have had 5-6 goals to spare . It be a terrible injustice if Limerick lost today. Better scores better talent, better players.

it started out at 3 goals, now the tally is up to 5-6 goals to spare ?! Take it handy there boy. You haven't won anything (for a long time) yet !!

:rolleyes:

Garyp88

What do people think of the season now its finished for us? What do we think needs to change between this season ending and the league starting? Areas we need to improve areas that seem OK? Also will cody stay or go? And if he goes who would we like to see instead? Just general topics and what peoples thoughts are

Noddy33

Garyp88 wrote: »

What do people think of the season now its finished for us? What do we think needs to change between this season ending and the league starting? Areas we need to improve areas that seem OK? Also will cody stay or go? And if he goes who would we like to see instead? Just general topics and what peoples thoughts are

Still lots of reasons to be positive for Kilkenny fans going forward. We have the best goalkeeper of my generation that I have ever witnessed along with two of the games most skillful hurlers in TJ and Richie. As for most teams....success can so often depend on keeping your key players and match winners injury free and fit. I wont use injuries as an excuse as  Brian Cody has never done that but we have had rotten luck the last two years with injuries to crucial personnel.
I think we still need to find a full back to release Padraig back out to his natural position of half back. There are other alternative options out there for FB but lads need to be given plenty of game time in the position before a verdict is concluded. I have always been a fan of Tom Aylward from Mullinavat and Geoff Morrisey at club level but obviously serious step up in standard here to Inter County level.
I for one was delighted for Joey Holden the last few games as thought he was brilliant. I went to all the kk matches from Walsh Cup in the winter to all league Games and bar few mistakes in few games I honestly thought he was one of our consistent and best players throughout the whole season and always looks to mark his man from the front. He gets alot of unjust flak from the stands but he covers alot of positional options so well worth his place.
I think Cody will stay on as I think there only way he plans on going out and thats at the top but i do expect a few changes to freshen up the backroom team perhaps. I think we need to find a few more scoring forwards that are physically able to mix it and win there own ball. Unfortunately this can often take years for players to develop but there is some serious talent in players like Adrian Mullen. I dont think there will be any retirements from this year panel but there may be a serious shake before next year......but I for one am really looking forward to the club action kicking off again. I do think the standard in club hurling has declined of late but lads will know that if they perform well and have ambitions of playing senior hurling for kk there probably wont be a better opportunity to force their way into the reckoning

Garyp88

I agree definitely with tj and Murphy of it wasn't for them it would have been a disaster. I think we need to get some confidence in the lads as it seems every ball is rushed and aimless you look at Galway and most times it's out from the back and then up to the midfield then the forwards we seem to lack composure. I think cody may go it's going to be a few years till we are near winning the all Ireland as I think we have declined yet other counties have got better, also has the game changed? I think it has yet we've failed to adapt and also we have no plan b. Hauling lads off after 20 minutes or so isn't the answer

Realt Dearg Sec

Noddy33 wrote: »

..success can so often depend on keeping your key players and match winners injury free and fit.

I agree with the rest of your post but I'm not sure I can get on board with this. The team that wins the AI in a given year invariably has a very deep squad, it's not just a matter of being lucky with injuries (which will happen) but of having enough depth to absorb them.

From that perspective we are still a good ways off winning an AI, but anyone who thinks we are declining as a power in the sport is probably not paying much attention either, since, undeniably, we have progressed in terms of squad development this year in comparison to last. Look at how many players have developed in the last year. OK some like Keoghan and Deegan might still have some work to do, while others look to be on the verge of taking their place as stalwarts of the team, like Leahy, and Maher. I think we have developed considerably as a squad during the year, as evidenced in the league. The league doesn't translate to summer, as we've just seen, but it is a good indicator of squad depth in my opinion.

The real question of course is whether what's coming through from below is going to be good enough to sustain the improvement. There's a big conversation to be had about the underage issues we have, but the really interesting thing right now is, of course, the club scene. This will be a really important year in terms of the quality of the club hurling that is served up. Most people generally agreed that the quality last year wasn't where it should be, and on a longer timeline there has been a trend where the strongest players in the county championship have often been county veterans like Martin Comerford, which doesn't bode well for the future. To me the club is still where reputations are made and a county's competitiveness is forged. It'll be very interesting to see just how intense the championship itself is, especially the senior. And especially if the younger members of the KK squad can start to stand out for their clubs. Perhaps less important, but still a big thing, will be whether the champions can go out and put it up to the likes of Cuala etc, but the main thing is that there is a good, hard, intense county championship like we have had in years gone by.

It'll be such an interesting club championship this year anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing how it's going from folks on here. Hon the Boro.

lim4ev

I've read a lot of posters viewpoints here for me as a Limerick man i think yed be mad to even think of getting rid of cody he's yer heartbeat i genuinely believe he's the man to bring ye forward there wasnt a puck of the ball in it at the end last sunday i know we butchered goal chanced but ye had many bad wides. For us to get over kk is huge as it was so long since we did for me kk are right up there and most likely always will esp with cody at the helm.

Realt Dearg Sec

lim4ev wrote: »

I've read a lot of posters viewpoints here for me as a Limerick man i think yed be mad to even think of getting rid of cody he's yer heartbeat i genuinely believe he's the man to bring ye forward there wasnt a puck of the ball in it at the end last sunday i know we butchered goal chanced but ye had many bad wides. For us to get over kk is huge as it was so long since we did for me kk are right up there and most likely always will esp with cody at the helm.

There are some people who do want to get rid of Cody, many of them have always wanted to get rid of Cody anyway, such is the nature of things. I think anyone who has watched how we have fought and battled through matches this year will realise that he imparted a drive and resolve to the team that allowed them to play beyond themselves, especially in the first Leinster final. Now we might still have questions about why we tended to start so poorly that we needed to battle in the first place, against Dublin, Wexford, Galway (actually Limerick was the only time against serious opposition that we actually started very strongly but we didn't really put it on the board while we had the chance). We might also question some of the selection decisions this season, which were very hard to get your head around at times. But either way it's not a question of keeping Cody or getting rid of him, it's a question of whether he wants to stay or go. He won't be pushed or pulled. And nobody knows his mind really.

Personally I hope he stays, and continues to build as he has been, I think he is improving the team as time goes by, and I don't think anyone could replicate the heart his teams always show, however it is he does it.

citykat

There is nobody in Kilkenny hurling who has the same drive, passion and above all stubborness as Cody. There is no heir apparent. He has no other interest in life - he never had. I would say from his Village days he had no clue as to when was the time to go. The same applies now. When Quinn was chairman he bowed to Cody. Jimmy Walsh doesnt have the same strength of personality as Quinn. For those angling for change, propose a viable alternative or stfu.

Garyp88

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

lim4ev wrote: »

I've read a lot of posters viewpoints here for me as a Limerick man i think yed be mad to even think of getting rid of cody he's yer heartbeat i genuinely believe he's the man to bring ye forward there wasnt a puck of the ball in it at the end last sunday i know we butchered goal chanced but ye had many bad wides. For us to get over kk is huge as it was so long since we did for me kk are right up there and most likely always will esp with cody at the helm.

There are some people who do want to get rid of Cody, many of them have always wanted to get rid of Cody anyway, such is the nature of things. I think anyone who has watched how we have fought and battled through matches this year will realise that he imparted a drive and resolve to the team that allowed them to play beyond themselves, especially in the first Leinster final. Now we might still have questions about why we tended to start so poorly that we needed to battle in the first place, against Dublin, Wexford, Galway (actually Limerick was the only time against serious opposition that we actually started very strongly but we didn't really put it on the board while we had the chance). We might also question some of the selection decisions this season, which were very hard to get your head around at times. But either way it's not a question of keeping Cody or getting rid of him, it's a question of whether he wants to stay or go. He won't be pushed or pulled. And nobody knows his mind really.

Personally I hope he stays, and continues to build as he has been, I think he is improving the team as time goes by, and I don't think anyone could replicate the heart his teams always show, however it is he does it.

I'm the opposite of you it's a matter of opinions, I totally agree about the work rate and desire but unfortunately that doesn't win games attacking and defending do and we have been very poor at both teams have noticed this and picked us off. For me it's things like the replay final everyone could see the Puck outs were atrocious and was getting cleaned out yet nothing changed, the selection issues like dropping delaney for 4 matches and if cleeres fit for the bench why not have him play. The other is the defence has been a problem for 18 months and everyone knows it yet nothing was done hardly any changes in the league and Walsh Cup wish is where we should be looking. It's not I don't like cody what he has done is magnificent and never likely to happen again a brilliant servant for so many years however the game has evolved yet we've a patched up defence and no plan b sometimes freshening up and new ideas it's not always a bad thing as cody isn't going to be around forever. Would it be wise to have a future face pick the future teams? It's a 50/50 decision the legend or the future?

Pigeon Chaser

We are not far away to be fair ....

Murphy

Murphy
Delaney
Deegan

Walsh
Cleere
Buckley

Maher
Hogan

Leahy
TJ
Kelly

Donnelly
Walter
Keoghan



would be capable of competing with anybody next year. Who knows what or who the club championship will throw up.

The crucial thing is getting the half back line right.

Under that setup I would be deploying Mossy to midfield and playing with a 2 man ff line ..

We are in a significantly better place than we were 12 months ago. Another year of s&c into Deegan, Delaney, Maher, Leahy, Keoghan and Mossy will bring them on a lot.

brookville

we're definitly not far away and are very competitive while blooding alot of players.
I do agree that cody was stubborn with the full back position god forbid something had of happened to padraig during the year.
but our fowards had being the problem up to last sunday and this inconsistency is probably because of inexperience.
Hopefully now next year he'll try delaney there and see how it goes if it works great,at least if we could get padraig and cillian back out to the wings we'd be in a much better position.
ive being delighted with maher this year he has improved his shooting and has a huge appetite for work cody deserves credit for this.
he presisted with deegan corner back and he certaintly couldnt be faulted for efford his learning his trade and is very dogged.
Galway and limericks fowards pulled way out leaving huge space behind our half back line.I always remember tommy and that crop being only dragged so far away from our full back line before coming back i know players were different and larkin and these lads could score aswell as do the hard work.
id be happy with the progress these young lads are making blanchfield has being good coming on hopefully he can tidy up his hurling and nail down a spot he has the size and strenght to kick on.Hopefully lads like ger alyward,kevin kelly,jason cleere can have a good club campaign and stay injury free and the trip to oz will be a nice bounding session for them it done clare no harm this year.
i hope richie reid stays at it i know he wasnt happy not making the squad but i thought he was very solid at cb for the shamrocks and i was hoping he would of being tried in defence maybe if shamrocks go well in the club he might be tried there next year.

tbiggertycome

Anyway it was a frustrating way to go out of the championship after such a positive year expecially when many came in with little or low expectations.

Firstly the match was probably just a bridge too far after the exertions of the previous two weeks. While I'm happy to see a good Limerick team do well I honestly think we would have beat them if we had the two weeks to recover and train coming up to last Sunday. I also think if James McGrath was a bit more even handed in his refereeing we could have won but to be honest it we probably wouldn't have deserved it. Not that we didn't try the lads ran themselves into the ground but some were already wrecked and struggling after 20 mins. They kept going and kept fighting but the ability to bring the kind of intensity we had the previous two Sundays just wasn't there they got close but it wasn't enough. A lot of the striking was poor and tired. Limerick played a nice game were they spread the ball and had the FF line running diagonals which our two corner backs really struggled to deal with. However we allowed our half forward line to be sucked out too far again giving loads of room to their inside line and they were far more economical with their chances and we were very wasteful as we all know.

I thought the Lennon and Lyng call was strange but I thought I could justify it before throw in and I thought I saw some of the logic behind it. Lennon would go FB and release Padraig to the wing as he had done last week, didn't happen and in the slippy conditions Pat Lyng just might thrive. I think the Lennon call was a big mistake and he really brought very little to the side unfortunately for him. Pat Lyng I thought actually tried very hard and was making the wing back uncomfortable. Pat was fouled numerous times just in front of us and every time McGrath gave a free against him for over carrying, which he was forced into given he was being fouled. Anyway I wouldn't be too hard on any lad who pulls on the jersey for Kilkenny as I know the effort and sacrifices they make are huge.

Player ratings
Eoin Murphy 9- 2 of his puck outs led to scores but other than that the perfect game
Paul Murphy 6- this is as I high as I could go Paul misread a lot of the diagonal ball and wasn't in the right place when it landed although Graeme Mulcahy has caused loads of players trouble all year
Padraig Walsh 7- he looked tired from the get go and never controlled the square the way you would like on Sunday
Paddy Deegan 7- not bad but similar to Paul he struggled to read the diagonal ball properly and was out of position when it landed.
Joey Holden 8- hadn't a bad day considering how everything else was going around him but all the HB line played to far out from goal most of the day
Cillian Buckley 6- was very quite and clearly wasn't fit he was hobbling anytime the ball wasn't near him. I've heard he may need a fair bit of treatment to sort out he's knee if it can be sorted.
Rob Lennon 5- I don't like giving anyone that score but I genuinely can't remeber him doing anything other than taking a few balls from the FB line to ease the pressure.
Conor Fogarty 7- I think he was tasked with marking Cian Lynch and he did a very good job of it for 50 odd mins it was only at the end of the match when Conor tired that Lynch made a strong impact.
James Maher 9- was great again today ran until he couldn't run anymore I think he's been our best and most consistent outfield player this year.
Mossy Keoghan 6- had minimal impact but tried hard as always needs S&C training
TJ Reid 7- looked tired after about 15 mins although the dirty shot he got from no 8 didn't help I'm sure, in fairness Limerick targeted TJ and bottled him up anytime he got on the ball
Pat Lyng 6- tried hard and was constantly fouled got no free but he wasn't up to the pitch of the game either, very hard to make your championship debut like that.
Billy Ryan 7- he tried all day but the end product wasn't there today his marker stuck to him like glue in fairness and at times he was marking 4 lads in there
Colin Fennelly 6- worked hard but very little came off for him either he needed to take his man on and make him foul him or let him break past but he never really tried to turn the FB convincingly for me.
Richie Hogan 8- played really well for his first full game back but missed some vital scores that could have dragged us over the line, still a great performance from a lad just getting back into the swing of things.
Liam Blanchfield 7- he worked hard when he came on but nothing really came off for him but he made opportunities for others
John Donnelly 8- made a great impact when he came on would have liked to seen him introduced earlier
Richie Leahy 8- played really well when he came on again would have liked to seen him work a bit more when the opposition win the ball
Ger Aylward N/A- couldn't rate a lad only brough on, on the 67minute why so late?
AN Other - why didn't we use all 5 subs when we'd played 3 weeks in a row??????

I wouldn't be too down hearted about the senior team they'll come back next year and the young lads will be bigger and stronger and have the experience under their belt. For their first year I think we've done well, could we have done more? Yes definietly but any day when your going out with 6 to 7 lads in their debut season playing in a team is always going to be tough.

As a few have said on here the bigger issue is the underage system. Up to now I probably would have disagreed with most who said this but I had my eyes opened when talking to an S&C expert over the weekend. He is familiar with the Kilkenny set up and other counties too. According to him the reason why we've struggled so badly at underage level is not because the lads aren't good enough, this years minors are a prime example they won the Arrabawn last year and I think they were by far the best team in it. Those lad have not become s*** hurlers in a year but they were dominated and made to look poor by two teams (Dublin & Galway) who's county boards have hired a professional S&C coach to look after underage teams physical development. Now this does not mean lads should be down the gym pumping iron at 16 but if the correct regime was put in place, I firmly believe we have the hurlers to keep us eating at the top table for many years to come. The biggest problem though is that KK county board don't pay. That's it, they just don't, all our senior set up is not paid (other than medical staff) I know this is the way it should be and it's a source of pride that we do it right. However I think hiring a professional S&C coach to work with all our underage teams would really redress a lot of the things we've seen from our underage teams over the last few years. Our guys are good up to U16 when none are doing a huge amount of S&C and then we've a big lull until our lads get into the senior set up where it normally takes them a year or sometimes two of working with Dempsey to get to the required level. In the likes of Galway Limerick Dublin the young lads are coming through from minor and their ready to train with seniors and by the time their at U21 their physically more or less ready to play senior. Look at our young lads this year purely from the physical side I'm not talking about ability here.
Scanlon 21-22 not ready
Donnelly 19-20 not ready
Leahy 21-22 not ready
Blanchfield 21-22 ready but on senior panel 3 years
Mossy 19 not ready
Conor Delaney 21-22 probably ready- 2 years senior
Jason Cleere 21-22 probably ready- 2 years senior
Bill Sheehan 19-20 not ready
Billy Ryan 21-22 probably ready just
Pat Lyng 21-22 not ready

I'm fairly certain that if these lads were in Galway or Dublin by this age their conditioning would not be holding them back, maybe Bill Sheehan is the only one that an excuse can be made for as he came from no county underage set up to straight in.
I know there are other issues with development squads but after seeing the performance that we gave in the minor last Sunday it looked like our lads had 15lbs lead weights in each boot compared to the Galway lads it was embarrassing to be honest. That not having a cut at the players like I've said they're a great team but I don't think they're being given the right tools to do the job we're asking of them against lads who have every tool they could every ask for.

Rant over!!