Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Garyp88

I agree the talent is there as I said earlier has the game/system evolved like with strength and conditioning as lads tend to be alot bulkier than say 10 to 20 years ago so we really do need to move with the times as morals don't win trophies. I'd like to have seen browne abit more and someone said earlier Tom aylward and morrissey as they've done well at club level. Does anyone know if jj is involved anywhere in the county? he's been doing some pundit work and has a good hurling brain and speaks alot of sense

The_Ghost

From looking at the players and seeing them play, I do think a few of our players are behind on the S&C and especially the 21s and minors.
I think after the S&C next year I think:
Delaney - will be fully ready for championship, even at FB.
Cleere - will be ready even for CB, also think he's skillfull and coulf deliver better balls into forwards.
Leahy - he's more of an athlete and can't see him bulking up too much but hope he can fill out abit so he can be ready.
Lyng - can't see him being ready next year but once he does fill out his hardworking game will be much better.
Keoghan - he seems like a strong lad and might be more ready than others.
Scanlon - needs to do a lot of work imo but has great hurling which always helps.
Billy Ryan - same as leahy kinda more of an athlete hope he fills out abit but keeps his speed.

All very hard to call but no doubt they'll all be in much better condition that they were this year. For all of the above they really need to stand out for their clubs. Also hopefully the likes of the mullens and John Walsh can be added to the list.

I think the problem with the underage teams is that in the past young lads were having 2/3 years with the seniors where they were filling out then coming into the team but now we need them ready straight away.

JJs Left Hand

There's a process in place from U14 upwards where they're being taught proper movement and flexibility and injury prevention before they are allowed anywhere near a weight. If they can't demonstrate an ability to perform a movement without a weight then they're not allowed near the weights. It's the right way of doing things but it's a long term process. As it's only really being implemented in the last 2 years then we won't see the benefits for a number of years. Sean Kelly is leading it and he's done years of research into injuries in youth hurlers to establish this routine.

tbiggertycome

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

There's a process in place from U14 upwards where they're being taught proper movement and flexibility and injury prevention before they are allowed anywhere near a weight. If they can't demonstrate an ability to perform a movement without a weight then they're not allowed near the weights. It's the right way of doing things but it's a long term process. As it's only really being implemented in the last 2 years then we won't see the benefits for a number of years. Sean Kelly is leading it and he's done years of research into injuries in youth hurlers to establish this routine.

That's great to hear and is the correct kind of approach I would hope for. Is it not also being run out to existing teams above that age rather than waiting for them to progress through?

JJs Left Hand

It's being run at all ages as far as I know - I know it was definitely being done with U15 and U16. Not sure how it works during the summer but throughout the winter and spring there were weekly sessions teaching foam rolling, movement and activation exercises and then bodyweight S&C

Hawkeye6

Finally caught up with a serious amount of posts. How do people write such essays in the immediate aftermath of the match? Surely that time is better spent digesting what just happened, talking and listening to people who were at the match before analysing and making judgments. Lots of opinions out there, some really antagonistic and attention seeking. What county are they from? I can’t make out. Some genuine thoughts there as well though. Firstly, Limerick deserved to win. The response to the goal was massive. They are probably the first team in 20 years of Brian Cody teams to respond to us like that. Well done to them but as this is about Kilkenny GAA, I’ll focus on us.

On the Lyng/Lennon selection. While I agree both turned out to be poor calls, they were not as random as people think. Nearly, every post I read last week mentioned the phrase “freshen it up” or variations. Lyng and Lennon were certainly fresh. Maybe not everyone’s choice, but they were fresh. Were they random, if recovery was the main thing that happened? Turns out that wasn’t fully true. On the Monday following the Galway game all players who were not involved were brought in for a hurling training session in Nowlan Park. Not sure of the numbers, but obviously when it came to hands up for freshness, the two lads were head of the pack. I wouldn’t be a fan of Lennon, but I do believe he is consistently good on the training ground. So I don’t think it’s that big a mystery, if training is key and belief in the ability of the pane. It is no mystery how Lyng got taken off before half time though. It is a bit of a mystery how Lennon survived. I have a theory but it would be pure speculation.

As usual, the initial Kilkenny posters went after Joey Holden. They’ll never tire of that drum. No point in debating with them at this stage. I wonder do they realise Paul Murphy wears a green helmet too… The old chestnut of Padraig Walsh at full back came up. As I have said before initially I thought this was a mad move like everyone else, but I have changed and think he is definitely in the top two inter county full backs in the country at the moment. No doubt in my mind. And full back is an important position. The first day against Galway his direct opponent Conor Cooney only scored one point. The next day Glynn scored 1-1 but I would attribute the goal to a typical Paul Murphy error. On Sunday, Seamus Flanagan only scored one point. I am happy if my full back’s direct opponent over three major championship games only scores 1-3. Over the three games, that was the only goal conceded. People will say what about Eoin Murphy and his contribution. Best keeper in the country by far but that’s what a goalkeeper is for. If he had stopped the three points from going over the bar as well we’d be in an All-Ireland semi-final (says he somewhat tongue in cheek). I hope Kilkenny fans don’t repeat 2016 and blame the full back when the real issue is the corner backs and the space left by the half back line in front of them.

To be fair to Paddy Deegan, Limerick was probably his worst game this year. Kilkenny have played more competitive matches than anyone else and he has been an ever present. On the other hand, I expressed concerns about Paul Murphy last week. I think that came to pass again with poor positioning combined with some awful distribution. I’m not sure of Murphy going forward, but the fans love him and excuse him based on pre 2016 performances. He is getting exposed in the open spaces and has always had issues with over exuberance jumping in when he should be waiting for the break or communicating with a teammate. Another issue for the full back role is the centre back. Cillian Buckley’s best position is wing back. He is too creative to be a centre back. His creativity leaves oceans of space in the middle. To be fair against Limerick, it was flagged here by a poster last week, he was carrying an injury. That is the next position to close off. On the subject of injuries, Colin Fennelly did not look right from an early stage. He looked very stiff. It was not the Colin Fennelly that tracks back and works hard. I would say only for Pat Lyng was struggling, that Blanchfield would have replaced Colin at that early stage. His hand was good and he still managed to score 2 points off his direct opponent, twice as many as Flanagan got off Padraig just to labour my earlier point.

There is the usual talk of making the changes earlier. When a manager makes a substitution it is always in the expectation that it will make things better. No manager puts on a player in a competitive game for the craic. If like Donnelly and Leahy on Sunday it works, you have to feel chuffed about the change and wonder why you didn’t do it a few minutes earlier. There is no guarantee however that if you did it 10 minutes earlier it would work as well as the dynamic might be different. It is easy to criticise the timing based on supposition. Leahy and Donnelly struggled the week before against Galway. By all accounts the players were mentally and physically exhausted after that game, especially the younger lads. They wouldn’t have had the benefit of the Monday session to re-stake their claim. So getting back in was purely down to reputation and past performances other than the previous one.
The referee... Once we mention the referee in Kilkenny it’s considered sour grapes and the referee cannot be blamed for the wides. However, it is still not the referee’s job to keep the opposition in the game. The Sunday Game (highlights version) has become awful due to too many matches to show therefore not enough of the highlights or enough of proper analysis of any game. However, they did show the foul on Billy Ryan, at least a 20m free, if not a penalty, followed by the blatant push in the back on Mossy Keoghan and they passed it off as great Limerick defending. Seriously!! I have no issue with this type of defending been allowed, if it is consistent. To get away with they would certainly suit Paul Murphy and Paddy Deegan. This is not to mention blatant fouls on Donnelly and Blanchfield. Also Hawkeye in Thurles is so slow, yet the time is not being added on in my opinion. There was almost one minute lost for the call to it on Sunday, that means only two minutes was added for all the changes and injuries including for the Limerick goalkeeper who suffered a bad headache when the ball went over the bar. Three minutes 13 second was played. I’m not sure what we have done to Westmeath, but the referees don’t seem to like us. But let’s get our own house in order as regards the playing. We cannot depend on the referee to win the game for us.

The change in game style which was designed to beat the sweeper system has affected our ability or instinct to take long range points like Galway and like Limerick did yesterday. That is an area that has to be addressed now that the young players have bedded in. We have proved this year that there is quality coming through despite the lack of success at Under-21. James Maher to my mind has been the best and most consistent of the new guys. Technically he is in his second year, but that in itself gives great optimism for next year with the others.

Was it a successful year for us? Brian Cody will say the only successful year is when you win everything you compete for. But to be a bit more practical, I think we will look back on not putting away Galway in the Leinster Final with some regret. I think that may become more apparent around the 19th August, if as I expect Galway win the All-Ireland final without another near miss. I think the positives of the year will be more apparent then.

The biggest disappointment on Sunday was the Minor (under-17). I have to admit they were poor. I thought they were very good in Parnell Park against Dublin despite the problems they had against a tough Dublin forward line. Our forwards looked like they could score more than the opposition no matter what. Certainly did not look that way on Sunday. Whether it was knock on effect of conceding so much against Dublin in the Leinster Final and not winning or the loss of the manager through illness a few weeks ago at a vital time of preparation for that final or something else, it was a poor performance. As mad as it is there is still a chance to turn it around but I suspect confidence in the kids is very low. Again it does highlight the myth of Kieran’s College. As someone pointed out they are playing in a competition with a stacked deck, much to the frustration of other secondary schools in the county and beyond. They are still in with a shout, as are the Intermediates and the Camogie teams and the development squad teams in August. Plenty to support.

Finally, the fixtures nonsense. If we had pulled off a draw on Sunday like times past, imagine playing next week followed by a semi-final the week after. I see the word “club” is back being mentioned. The silence of the CPA has been deafening during this intense period of inter county fixtures. I can only see this getting worse next year when lads in HQ realise they need a lot more time to allow for weather events and draws and stretch out the inter county season even more. How well will the county lads go when back with their clubs, will be interesting? Some may not have the hunger to go back to the clubs having done so much hurling since January in conditions from freezing cold to soaking wet to blistering heat. I’m not sure if we will learn much from this year’s club games for a variety of reasons. It’s a new dynamic.

BloodyBill

I know the Limerick set up is well driven. Alot of the underage hurlers grow up beside rugby players and measure themselves off them. They can compare training and power...flexibility and jumping ect with their mates who are potentially going into a pro environment. This rubbish about people slowing down or being too young to lift is old hat and untrue. If supervised properly Kids can be doing weights from the age of 12 like the American kids. I'd want guys having personal info with bench max, 20metre speed ,squat max . There's a minimum requirement and the skillfull player wouldn't miss out either..It's basic stuff.

greenspurs

Superb as always Hawkeye6 !!! Bravo.

dastardly00

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

There's a process in place from U14 upwards where they're being taught proper movement and flexibility and injury prevention before they are allowed anywhere near a weight. If they can't demonstrate an ability to perform a movement without a weight then they're not allowed near the weights. It's the right way of doing things but it's a long term process. As it's only really being implemented in the last 2 years then we won't see the benefits for a number of years. Sean Kelly is leading it and he's done years of research into injuries in youth hurlers to establish this routine.

It is really great to hear that a system like that is in place

JJs Left Hand

BloodyBill wrote: »

I know the Limerick set up is well driven. Alot of the underage hurlers grow up beside rugby players and measure themselves off them. They can compare training and power...flexibility and jumping ect with their mates who are potentially going into a pro environment. This rubbish about people slowing down or being too young to lift is old hat and untrue. If supervised properly Kids can be doing weights from the age of 12 like the American kids. I'd want guys having personal info with bench max, 20metre speed ,squat max . There's a minimum requirement and the skillfull player wouldn't miss out either..It's basic stuff.

You want 12 year olds doing weights?

This stuff isn't easy. Teaching proper movements to adults is difficult enough but to kids who have no idea how their bodies work and really have no interest in how to do a squat or a single leg RDL is a nightmare. It's tedious and boring for them and they HATE IT.

dubcat51

Dublin camogie will have philly mc nahon doing the s&c for all their squads from next year.14s up to senior.

tbiggertycome

From what I've heard the postponed League Round 2 matches will be the ones most likely to be played on the 10th, 11th, 12th of August.
The match ups are here below no times or dates yet.
Group A
Bennettsbridge v Erins Own in Clara
Danesfort v Rower Inistioge in Mullinavat
Ballyhale Shamrocks v O`Loughlin Gaels in Danesfort

Group B
Mullinavat v Carrickshock in Piltown
Dicksboro v James Stephens in Nowlan Park
St. Patrick's v Clara in Jenkinstown

The pick of the bunch should be the replay of the county final with the Village mad for revenge no doubt. The Boro have had the hoodoo over the Village for the last 7 years or so and I'm sure the Village are very keen to restore what they would see as the natural order of things. Obviously I will be going for the Boro anyway.
The Mullinavat & Carrickshock also has potential to be a feisty affair with very little quarter given, I'd fancy the Vat to come out on top though.
The Ballyragget and Clara match should be good too with both teams probably about the same level. Clara are on a bit of a downward trajectory and Ballyragget are on the up after finally getting promoted last year. I just about fancy Ballyragget if they're all fit.

I'd expect Ballyhale to steam roll O'Loughlins. OLG have lost a lot of their veterans from last year and as far as I know they've a very young panel now and they might struggle in their first year out. OLG have some very good players and if they can hold on to them they will definitely cause trouble in the next few years I think this year may be a bit early. I expect Ballyhale to have a lovely mix of old and young and will go far this year.
The Fort and the Rower is hard one to call Danesfort have been so poor in the last few years but with a fit Hogan they might do better. The Rower should be a stronger team but I'm putting this down for a draw.
The Bridge and Comer will be opposites collide. Bennettsbridge should win if they can get their attacking game going but they'll be up against Comers strongest part of their team with Delaney and Fogarty ruling the roost. I just about fancy Bennettsbridge to win but a low scoring loss wouldn't surprise me either.

blackcard

tbiggertycome wrote: »

From what I've heard the postponed League Round 2 matches will be the ones most likely to be played on the 10th, 11th, 12th of August.
The match ups are here below no times or dates yet.
Group A
Bennettsbridge v Erins Own in Clara
Danesfort v Rower Inistioge in Mullinavat
Ballyhale Shamrocks v O`Loughlin Gaels in Danesfort

Group B
Mullinavat v Carrickshock in Piltown
Dicksboro v James Stephens in Nowlan Park
St. Patrick's v Clara in Jenkinstown

The pick of the bunch should be the replay of the county final with the Village mad for revenge no doubt. The Boro have had the hoodoo over the Village for the last 7 years or so and I'm sure the Village are very keen to restore what they would see as the natural order of things. Obviously I will be going for the Boro anyway.
The Mullinavat & Carrickshock also has potential to be a feisty affair with very little quarter given, I'd fancy the Vat to come out on top though.
The Ballyragget and Clara match should be good too with both teams probably about the same level. Clara are on a bit of a downward trajectory and Ballyragget are on the up after finally getting promoted last year. I just about fancy Ballyragget if they're all fit.

I'd expect Ballyhale to steam roll O'Loughlins. OLG have lost a lot of their veterans from last year and as far as I know they've a very young panel now and they might struggle in their first year out. OLG have some very good players and if they can hold on to them they will definitely cause trouble in the next few years I think this year may be a bit early. I expect Ballyhale to have a lovely mix of old and young and will go far this year.
The Fort and the Rower is hard one to call Danesfort have been so poor in the last few years but with a fit Hogan they might do better. The Rower should be a stronger team but I'm putting this down for a draw.
The Bridge and Comer will be opposites collide. Bennettsbridge should win if they can get their attacking game going but they'll be up against Comers strongest part of their team with Delaney and Fogarty ruling the roost. I just about fancy Bennettsbridge to win but a low scoring loss wouldn't surprise me either.

I would agree with most of this but would go for The Rower to beat Danesfort. I think Clara might just beat Ballyragget.
I hope that matches are staggered so that supporters can attend as many games as possible.
I see Kilkenny are playing in the final of the Intermediate Championship. Kilkenny and Cork are the only participants in this championship as far as I know. I really don't see the point of this competition anymore

brookville

i think tom aylward done his knee a few weeks ago he would be a big loss for them if his gone.
Jack langton broke his leg during the summer i dont know how long that recovery is but clara seem to be slipping and have lost alot of experience like keith hogan,Austin murphy,conor phelan and neill pender last year but on their day they would be a match for anyone.
i had the rower as darkhorses last year but was dissapointed with them against bhale although think they were missing sean cummins and joe lyng that day who are very solid for them.Pj delaney is there now and they have some good hurlers hopefully they can go better this year.
ballyhale with henry and tommy involved will be intresting.Mick fennelly has spent the summer hurling abroad while they can call on some good u21s from last year if they get it together they should be hard bet.
the boro have a very young team and last year should stand to them.Shane stapleton was a big addition last year they should be in the shake up at the business end of the season.

phkk

I see Kilkenny are playing in the final of the Intermediate Championship. Kilkenny and Cork are the only participants in this championship as far as I know. I really don't see the point of this competition anymore[/quote]

+1 If that's true, that's some joke if that's causing the hold up of the local club scene!

Realt Dearg Sec

phkk wrote: »

I see Kilkenny are playing in the final of the Intermediate Championship. Kilkenny and Cork are the only participants in this championship as far as I know. I really don't see the point of this competition anymore

+1 If that's true, that's some joke if that's causing the hold up of the local club scene![/QUOTE]

What happened to it at all? I know in latter years Tipp stopped limiting themselves to intermediate players, as others had done for a long time, but it doesn't seem long ago at all that it was still a competition that was taken very seriously, and an important proving ground for players looking to stake a place on the senior team. It seems to have fallen apart very quickly altogether.

brookville

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

phkk wrote: »

I see Kilkenny are playing in the final of the Intermediate Championship. Kilkenny and Cork are the only participants in this championship as far as I know. I really don't see the point of this competition anymore

+1 If that's true, that's some joke if that's causing the hold up of the local club scene!

What happened to it at all? I know in latter years Tipp stopped limiting themselves to intermediate players, as others had done for a long time, but it doesn't seem long ago at all that it was still a competition that was taken very seriously, and an important proving ground for players looking to stake a place on the senior team. It seems to have fallen apart very quickly altogether.[/quote]

when is that being played?its a pity its not taking more seriously

Joe Daly

brookville wrote: »

What happened to it at all? I know in latter years Tipp stopped limiting themselves to intermediate players, as others had done for a long time, but it doesn't seem long ago at all that it was still a competition that was taken very seriously, and an important proving ground for players looking to stake a place on the senior team. It seems to have fallen apart very quickly altogether.

when is that being played?its a pity its not taking more seriously[/QUOTE]

Its down for the twenty eight of this month.

blackcard

brookville wrote: »

What happened to it at all? I know in latter years Tipp stopped limiting themselves to intermediate players, as others had done for a long time, but it doesn't seem long ago at all that it was still a competition that was taken very seriously, and an important proving ground for players looking to stake a place on the senior team. It seems to have fallen apart very quickly altogether.

when is that being played?its a pity its not taking more seriously[/quote]

It is being played on Saturday week 28th of July in Nowlan Park against Cork.

Cornerback1

phkk wrote: »

I see Kilkenny are playing in the final of the Intermediate Championship. Kilkenny and Cork are the only participants in this championship as far as I know. I really don't see the point of this competition anymore

+1 If that's true, that's some joke if that's causing the hold up of the local club scene![/quote]

If this was played earlier in year, could other counties not enter their senior teams in this i.e. teams in the Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard etc.?

Cornerback1

phkk wrote: »

I see Kilkenny are playing in the final of the Intermediate Championship. Kilkenny and Cork are the only participants in this championship as far as I know. I really don't see the point of this competition anymore

+1 If that's true, that's some joke if that's causing the hold up of the local club scene![/quote]

If it was played earlier in the year, could Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard etc. teams not play in this competition?

minty81

Is Mick Fennelly available to play for Shamrocks this year after playing abroad? Not sure how that works these days

Realt Dearg Sec

minty81 wrote: »

Is Mick Fennelly available to play for Shamrocks this year after playing abroad? Not sure how that works these days

Where'd he play? Normally when you play outside of Ireland it requires a sanction, rather than a transfer, so when you go home you're still eligible to play.

JJs Left Hand

Who said he's playing? Thought he was just touring

minty81

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Who said he's playing? Thought he was just touring

The independent mentioned a few weeks ago that he's with a club in San Fran

JJs Left Hand

Oh right didn't know that.

phkk

Think Michael Rice is playing in San Francisco too. Used to be the case that once you played in North America, you couldn't play for 60 days with the club (New York was a different board and you could play a match for the weekend and return to your club in KK). Not sure what stipulations exist now.

Village87

phkk wrote: »

Think Michael Rice is playing in San Francisco too. Used to be the case that once you played in North America, you couldn't play for 60 days with the club (New York was a different board and you could play a match for the weekend and return to your club in KK). Not sure what stipulations exist now.

Could have signed 4 months ago and the 60 days would be well up

Village87

Massive few months for club players to shine. Kilkenny really need 5/6 strong additions for next year. Club championship will be great for the next few weeks

Garyp88

Village87 wrote: »

Massive few months for club players to shine. Kilkenny really need 5/6 strong additions for next year. Club championship will be great for the next few weeks

Totally agree it's also a good opportunity for players who were let go and left out or players who were nearly there to stake a big claim I'd say there's a few places up for grabs