Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Hawkeye6

When Kilkenny were in their prime, a score of 28 points or variations of same, was always considered enough to win any inter county game. Didn’t matter what the opposition got as long as you got to the scoring target, you would not be beaten.

In Kilkenny’s seven championship matches in 2018, on no occasion did Kilkenny reach that target score. However, on the flip side, only on one occasion did Kilkenny concede the target score and that was the 1-27 (30) conceded in Leinster Final replay against Galway and that in a year where high scores were abundant almost everywhere.

Going back to the National League and 8 games involved there. Three times we hit the target score, against Tipperary twice, in the round robin and the final and against Wexford in the semi-final. On no occasion did we concede that target score.

Cold analysis would suggest our defence have been doing their job pretty well in 2018, particularly in a year where everyone was breaking scoring records. Only once in 15 competitive games was the target breached. However, our forwards/midfielders have only hit the target score on about 25% of the time. Obviously this needs to improve either with current players or new players.

It is curious that most on this forum and to be honest, most people in Kilkenny always focus on the perceived defensive problems and who will be the new full back etc. The type of players I think people should be looking for in the local championship should have all the usual Kilkenny traits plus be able to score points from distance or can score goals like DJ Carey or Eddie Brennan. But Goals are drying up in Kilkenny club hurling. I have said on a number occasions on this forum that I do believe the natural goalscorer is being coached out of Kilkenny club hurling with drills being all about cones rather than goal posts. It could be compensated, if the long range points were being picked off, but that doesn’t appear to be happening either. Maybe someone like Tbiggertycome who does a lot of stats might have a record of the top scorers from play in each Senior, Intermediate and maybe junior matches during the league and championship. I think it could make interesting reading at the end of the championships. Might throw up some candidates for debate.

Garyp88

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

When Kilkenny were in their prime, a score of 28 points or variations of same, was always considered enough to win any inter county game. Didn’t matter what the opposition got as long as you got to the scoring target, you would not be beaten.

In Kilkenny’s seven championship matches in 2018, on no occasion did Kilkenny reach that target score. However, on the flip side, only on one occasion did Kilkenny concede the target score and that was the 1-27 (30) conceded in Leinster Final replay against Galway and that in a year where high scores were abundant almost everywhere.

Going back to the National League and 8 games involved there. Three times we hit the target score, against Tipperary twice, in the round robin and the final and against Wexford in the semi-final. On no occasion did we concede that target score.

Cold analysis would suggest our defence have been doing their job pretty well in 2018, particularly in a year where everyone was breaking scoring records. Only once in 15 competitive games was the target breached. However, our forwards/midfielders have only hit the target score on about 25% of the time. Obviously this needs to improve either with current players or new players.

It is curious that most on this forum and to be honest, most people in Kilkenny always focus on the perceived defensive problems and who will be the new full back etc. The type of players I think people should be looking for in the local championship should have all the usual Kilkenny traits plus be able to score points from distance or can score goals like DJ Carey or Eddie Brennan. But Goals are drying up in Kilkenny club hurling. I have said on a number occasions on this forum that I do believe the natural goalscorer is being coached out of Kilkenny club hurling with drills being all about cones rather than goal posts. It could be compensated, if the long range points were being picked off, but that doesn’t appear to be happening either. Maybe someone like Tbiggertycome who does a lot of stats might have a record of the top scorers from play in each Senior, Intermediate and maybe junior matches during the league and championship. I think it could make interesting reading at the end of the championships. Might throw up some candidates for debate.

Quite interesting when you look at it like that from a scoring point of view and totally agree with long range scoring backs, they seem to really get the crowd going when you look at the likes of P. Mannion, R. Maher and byrnes they also take a bit of pressure off the forwards and given the amount from play this year we were very poor. They only one we seem to have any composure to score long range is Walsh yet he's played to far back

sportsmaddad

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Did the U15s qualify for the Arrabawn proper? You had to qualify this year and they lost to Cork at one stage.

Was anyone here at that Cork game? Heard from one parent it was a complete farce. It was sprung on KK at few days notice, as a result 2 of KK coaches couldn't make it. Played in Ballyhea Cork with Cork ref, umpires and no scoreboard. At HT the ref had docked a KK point by everyone else's count. Even allowing for that everyone had KK up by a point at FT but ref had it as a draw. Bit of a row over whether it should go to a replay but extra time was played. KK played kind of under protest and got well beaten. It puts them in Arrabawn B tournament.
Doesn't sound like 'elite' treatment and maybe these boys aren't too far off the pace.
Best of luck to the various squads & management teams this weekend.

SpinMaster21

The 16s will have 3 minor lads in the set up great to have a few young players involved with the minors which will bode well for next year with a bit of experience

Will be looking out for results over the weekend and best of luck to all teams

For anyone wondering the the teams are listed in the Kilkenny people and on the website

Anyone that is attending games over the weekend throw up any results ye have

greenspurs

sportsmaddad wrote: »

Was anyone here at that Cork game? Heard from one parent it was a complete farce. It was sprung on KK at few days notice, as a result 2 of KK coaches couldn't make it. Played in Ballyhea Cork with Cork ref, umpires and no scoreboard. At HT the ref had docked a KK point by everyone else's count. Even allowing for that everyone had KK up by a point at FT but ref had it as a draw. Bit of a row over whether it should go to a replay but extra time was played. KK played kind of under protest and got well beaten. It puts them in Arrabawn B tournament.
Doesn't sound like 'elite' treatment and maybe these boys aren't too far off the pace.
Best of luck to the various squads & management teams this weekend.

I thought that kind of sh1t only happened at under age Club games !!! :eek: :rolleyes:

Hawkeye6

sportsmaddad wrote: »

Was anyone here at that Cork game? Heard from one parent it was a complete farce. It was sprung on KK at few days notice, as a result 2 of KK coaches couldn't make it. Played in Ballyhea Cork with Cork ref, umpires and no scoreboard. At HT the ref had docked a KK point by everyone else's count. Even allowing for that everyone had KK up by a point at FT but ref had it as a draw. Bit of a row over whether it should go to a replay but extra time was played. KK played kind of under protest and got well beaten. It puts them in Arrabawn B tournament.
Doesn't sound like 'elite' treatment and maybe these boys aren't too far off the pace.
Best of luck to the various squads & management teams this weekend.

That is correct.
The same bunch of lads were only put together 3 or 4 weeks before last years Tony Forristal. Beat Limerick and then soon after lost to Laois by a point thanks to some controversial decisions too. These lads could be dark horses for minor.

Village87

SpinMaster21 wrote: »

The 16s will have 3 minor lads in the set up great to have a few young players involved with the minors which will bode well for next year with a bit of experience

Will be looking out for results over the weekend and best of luck to all teams

For anyone wondering the the teams are listed in the Kilkenny people and on the website

Anyone that is attending games over the weekend throw up any results ye have

What players were u16 on the minor and where are they from ?

greenspurs

I usually have a snoop/trawl on other counties Gaa threads ie Waterford and Tipp.
and boy god those poor Waterford lads are in a complete tizzy!! Between the state of Walsh pk, their county board in fear of change , and the people that are being rumoured to be in line for the senior managers job .......
We think we have it bad !!!

Pogue eile

greenspurs wrote: »

I usually have a snoop/trawl on other counties Gaa threads ie Waterford and Tipp.
and boy god those poor Waterford lads are in a complete tizzy!!  Between the state of Walsh pk, their county board in fear of change , and the people that are being rumoured to be in line for the senior managers job .......  
We think we have it bad !!!  

The Tipp one is an awful embarrassment, such childish muck and absolutely zero moderating and the anti Rugby stufff is absolute cringe enducing stuff and I say all that as a Tipp man.

SpinMaster21

Village87 wrote: »

What players were u16 on the minor and where are they from ?

Hickey, Doyle, McDonald

northern lad

SpinMaster21 wrote: »

Hickey, Doyle, McDonald

Are the U16 group not great?

Heard they took some hammerings lately and that our next good group are the U14 and U13

kilkennyboy

northern lad wrote: »

Are the U16 group not great?

Heard they took some hammerings lately and that our next good group are the U14 and U13

I believe they are working without 9 lads that were part of minor squad .and they are back on board for a blitz at the weekend. So should be a good indication were they stand.

SpinMaster21

northern lad wrote: »

Are the U16 group not great?

Heard they took some hammerings lately and that our next good group are the U14 and U13

16s are split this weekend so hard to tell, they’ll be lads on both teams pushing hard for next year at Minor.

The 14s and 15s will be interesting

northern lad

SpinMaster21 wrote: »

16s are split this weekend so hard to tell, they’ll be lads on both teams pushing hard for next year at Minor.

The 14s and 15s will be interesting

Looking at KK People the U16 are not split. The lads who were on the minor are all on the same panel heading to Wexford

SpinMaster21

northern lad wrote: »

Looking at KK People the U16 are not split. The lads who were on the minor are all on the same panel heading to Wexford

Kilkenny U16 Amber and Kilkenny U16 Black there are two teams for every grade entered by Kiclkenny. Albeit in different competitions

Re hammerings care to share your knowledge? Of course they were depleted due to players involvement with County minor set up but I’m sure the Black and Amber will be flying this weekend

Anyone with a keen knowledge knows not all the players on one squad will be the same ones next year. At this age it’s about representing your county and wearing the jersey

Good luck to all

northern lad

SpinMaster21 wrote: »

Kilkenny U16 Amber and Kilkenny U16 Black there are two teams for every grade entered by Kiclkenny. Albeit in different competitions

Re hammerings care to share your knowledge? Of course they were depleted due to players involvement with County minor set up but I’m sure the Black and Amber will be flying this weekend

Anyone with a keen knowledge knows not all the players on one squad will be the same ones next year. At this age it’s about representing your county and wearing the jersey

Good luck to all

Agree fully about changes to squads but the youngsters in the squads from 14 to 16 know whether they are on the Amber or the Black

Twiceasnice97

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

When Kilkenny were in their prime, a score of 28 points or variations of same, was always considered enough to win any inter county game. Didn’t matter what the opposition got as long as you got to the scoring target, you would not be beaten.

In Kilkenny’s seven championship matches in 2018, on no occasion did Kilkenny reach that target score. However, on the flip side, only on one occasion did Kilkenny concede the target score and that was the 1-27 (30) conceded in Leinster Final replay against Galway and that in a year where high scores were abundant almost everywhere.

Going back to the National League and 8 games involved there. Three times we hit the target score, against Tipperary twice, in the round robin and the final and against Wexford in the semi-final. On no occasion did we concede that target score.

Cold analysis would suggest our defence have been doing their job pretty well in 2018, particularly in a year where everyone was breaking scoring records. Only once in 15 competitive games was the target breached. However, our forwards/midfielders have only hit the target score on about 25% of the time. Obviously this needs to improve either with current players or new players.

It is curious that most on this forum and to be honest, most people in Kilkenny always focus on the perceived defensive problems and who will be the new full back etc. The type of players I think people should be looking for in the local championship should have all the usual Kilkenny traits plus be able to score points from distance or can score goals like DJ Carey or Eddie Brennan. But Goals are drying up in Kilkenny club hurling. I have said on a number occasions on this forum that I do believe the natural goalscorer is being coached out of Kilkenny club hurling with drills being all about cones rather than goal posts. It could be compensated, if the long range points were being picked off, but that doesn’t appear to be happening either. Maybe someone like Tbiggertycome who does a lot of stats might have a record of the top scorers from play in each Senior, Intermediate and maybe junior matches during the league and championship. I think it could make interesting reading at the end of the championships. Might throw up some candidates for debate.

was listening to a podcast recently discussing some stats. The average number of different scorers per match this year was 8 per team per game.
Kilkenny were well below that. The only team that had less scorers was wexford incidentally
That's the core problem for kilkenny

corner back 2

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

was listening to a podcast recently discussing some stats. The average number of different scorers per match this year was 8 per team per game.
Kilkenny were well below that. The only team that had less scorers was wexford incidentally
That's the core problem for kilkenny

Interesting analysis and would like to know how many forward substitutions KK had in each match. I would hope that if some of the younger players get more consistency that we could get closer to this average. Alot of the talk all year was about the weakness of the full back line and if you look at it this way then maybe the backs are not too far off the mark at all.

Cornerback1

Sportsjoe.ie has picked 2 KK lads on their best 15: Eoin Murphy and T.J. Reid.

I think Cheddar was one of the 'judges'.

dubcat51

SpinMaster21 wrote: »

The 16s will have 3 minor lads in the set up great to have a few young players involved with the minors which will bode well for next year with a bit of experience

Will be looking out for results over the weekend and best of luck to all teams

For anyone wondering the the teams are listed in the Kilkenny people and on the website

Anyone that is attending games over the weekend throw up any results ye have

Dublin have 6 players from this years minors still minor next year.their main 2 scoring forwards this year underage again.

northern lad

Looking at KK GAA website. Good to see Richie Manogue U14, Pat Hoban U15, Brian Ryan U16 working in the squads

Joe Daly

northern lad wrote: »

Looking at KK GAA website. Good to see Richie Manogue U14, Pat Hoban U15, Brian Ryan U16 working in the squads

The best of luck to all .

dzer2

northern lad wrote: »

Looking at KK GAA website. Good to see Richie Manogue U14, Pat Hoban U15, Brian Ryan U16 working in the squads

Why

ttowncat

U16 A team lost out to wexford in the semi of the foley tournament in ferns today. Team beat Waterford and offaly in round robin group earlier in the day. Tipp wexford and kildare in other group. The team were missing 2/3 off the minor squad through injury. There was a prevailing wind which made most matches a game of two halves. Dunno about this Kk team- they were lucky against waterford for an easy goal and barely held out against offaly in the end. All that without other big teams like Dublin, Cork, galway, limerick and clare at the competition in Ferns.

Re the Wexford match. Absolutely disgraceful carry on again with Wexford referee. I've never seen such biased refereeing and would never be one to blame a ref for a result but this guy took the biscuit. Wex were a much better team but missed 5 golden goal chances. This made a game of it and kk were threatening to win the game with the breeze until wex got a goal 90 secs from time. I'd love to know how the appointment of that ref worked- did wexford gaa/folk organise the entire blitz and refs? Were there other neutral refs at the venue who could have been given that game?(i saw at least 3 different refs at venue)

Don't get me wrong- there was SOME fouling by kk players as they tried to deal with very good skilful, fast and strong players but even the wex supporters around me were saying it was totally biased. In truth it wld have been smash and grab robbery by kk but the ref made sure that didn't happen.

Anyone know how it was organised?

dubcat51

ttowncat wrote: »

U16 A team lost out to wexford in the semi of the foley tournament in ferns today. Team beat Waterford and offaly in round robin group earlier in the day. Tipp wexford and kildare in other group. The team were missing 2/3 off the minor squad through injury. There was a prevailing wind which made most matches a game of two halves. Dunno about this Kk team- they were lucky against waterford for an easy goal and barely held out against offaly in the end. All that without other big teams like Dublin, Cork, galway, limerick and clare at the competition in Ferns.

Re the Wexford match. Absolutely disgraceful carry on again with Wexford referee. I've never seen such biased refereeing and would never be one to blame a ref for a result but this guy took the biscuit. Wex were a much better team but missed 5 golden goal chances. This made a game of it and kk were threatening to win the game with the breeze until wex got a goal 90 secs from time. I'd love to know how the appointment of that ref worked- did wexford gaa/folk organise the entire blitz and refs? Were there other neutral refs at the venue who could have been given that game?(i saw at least 3 different refs at venue)

Don't get me wrong- there was SOME fouling by kk players as they tried to deal with very good skilful, fast and strong players but even the wex supporters around me were saying it was totally biased. In truth it wld have been smash and grab robbery by kk but the ref made sure that didn't happen.

Anyone know how it was organised?

Played in a u14 camogie blitz about a minth back and the wexford refs were a disgrace.must have been paid before a ball was thrown in.

JJs Left Hand

Cork after beating the U14s in the Tony Forristal final 2-15 to 3-6. Disappointing but they beat Tipperary, Waterford and Dublin on the way. Cork B team won the Sonny Walsh as well so serious depth there. Kilkenny B team lost to Offaly in the Sonny Walsh.

dubcat51

Believe galway won the u16 tournament in.mallow.galway seem to have strenght in depth with juvenile hurling up to minor.

brookville

i went out to the local derby out in Palmerstown like alot of others because a very big crowd at it.
the scoreboard didnt work for the first half but thankfully it was resolved at half time.Tommy was ff and caused lots of trouble especially in the first half he got a goal and padraig got the other.gbc chipped away a few points before ht with conor murphy and billy ryan lively.mossy got two great points in the first half and young tommy was strong at 6.
the goal that gbc craved never came in the 2nd half or didnt look like coming and tullaron pulled away in the end to win by ten.
this is a very good tullaron team padraig,mossy shane and old tommy in attack with loads of movement and smart hurling will be hard beat but maybe when the ground starts getting soft and wet it could level out a bit.

BoroMan32

It was a poor enough game for a neutral. Tullaroan well on top and quite accurate with their striking especially in the first half. GBC had some very poor players and weren't on Tullaroan's level in any department really.

Not sure whether the break in the season has contributed but most of the senior/intermediate games since the resumption seem to be fairly poor games as a spectacle.

phkk

BoroMan32 wrote: »

It was a poor enough game for a neutral. Tullaroan well on top and quite accurate with their striking especially in the first half. GBC had some very poor players and weren't on Tullaroan's level in any department really.

Not sure whether the break in the season has contributed but most of the senior/intermediate games since the resumption seem to be fairly poor games as a spectacle.

Palmerstown should never hold a big derby game again. Parking was atrocious, I missed at least 15 mins of the first half as traffic was at a standstill and there was literally nowhere to park.
The match itself was a let down, Tullaroan with the upper hand in all departments. I thought the 2 Tommy Walshs were excellent. Tullaroan should win intermediate this year