France vs Ireland, International Friendly, Live on RTE 2 (k.o. 8pm)

Dempsey

The strawman arguments presented when you think a team of professional footballers should try to pass the football 4 or 5 times...to each other are nothing short of baffling tbh

Ferris_Bueller

MON has been far from our worst manager in recent times, in fact he would be closer to the other end in reality. In my lifetime you would have to say McCarthy, O'Neill, Trap, Kerr, Stan in that order, presumably for most of you who are a bit older Charlton will be ahead of McCarthy in the pecking order as well. I think under O'Neill we have had some really good performances and he had installed a certain feeling watching Ireland again that we could beat anyone, some very memorable performances off hand are Italy, Germany x 2, France, Sweden, Austria, Wales, Bosnia.. Obviously we have had some stinkers too in fairness but other than the hammering by Denmark (and arguably the loss to Scotland) there haven't been any disastrous results.

My worry now is that we are on the decline and we have not played well under him for almost 2 years now apart from Wales away, the tactics seem to be getting worse as are the performances and the results and it doesn't look like it will change. At least he is trying out new players, despite it being a friendly (which I bleeding detest) the game on Saturday is quite important, last game before the competitive fixtures start and if we go out with 10 men behind the ball at home to USA in a friendly I think it could be a sign of a long Nations League & Euro qualifying campaign. He has has the squad together for almost two weeks now and has played 2 games already, surely if there is ever a time to try and implement a slight improvement in tactics it's this Saturday.

Rikand

I always think Kerr gets a harsh runout in best of lists. Has a great win percentage and at least you can say when up against weaker teams, he put them to bed. Faulted for taking the foot of the gas in some games but played a much better style of football with more consistency than what we've had under O'Neill.

LuckyLloyd

Rikand wrote: »

I always think Kerr gets a harsh runout in best of lists. Has a great win percentage and at least you can say when up against weaker teams, he put them to bed. Faulted for taking the foot of the gas in some games but played a much better style of football with more consistency than what we've had under O'Neill.

I liked Kerr and felt he deserved another campaign at least, his sacking was disgraceful. But his squad was so much better than what we have now. Light years ahead.

He had Roy Keane for his second campaign; Keane and Duff in their primes; Dunne and O'Shea in their best periods; Shay Given; stalwarts like Kilbane and Holland; a great selection of fullbacks. That was a strong Irish team, and it was disappointing that we didn't qualify for 04 and 06, even though I think we got genuinely unlucky.

The current squad is ****ing abysmal in comparison.

MD1990

Results wise O'Neill is doing fine with the squad we have.

FAI just want to get to the Euro's whatever way possible for money.

Not thinking long term about how getting in a coach that would encourage players to pass the ball.
No one is expecting us to pass like Spain but we are probably one of the worst footballing sides in Europe.

I wouldn't put all the blame on O'Neill despite being a dinosaur.

Irish players have been described for many years as brave & never say die attitude etc. But they have no bravery on the ball.

GreeBo

MD1990 wrote: »

But they have no bravery on the ball.

Is it this or do we just need a braver management team?

Dots1982

A few points:

There’s is no point having 5 passes in a row if you are no closer to scoring at the end of the 5 passes than you were at the start. You don’t get awarded goals for consecutive passes. I don’t believe these players are capable of making progress and scoring goals by passing the ball. We don’t have passing midfielders.

Ireland have not always played long ball O’Neill. It’s a tactic they use and especially recently. But for the most part our style of play was the midfield pass it to the wing and the wingers cross to the middle. Seamus coleman’s Injury killed our best attacking threat and with wes getting older and Robbie brady’s Poor form we ran out of ways to score a goal.

Posters here are paying lip service to ireland’s Squad not being great but they really need to look at the squad for these games and take stock and breathe in just how poor this collection of players are.

Judging the management’s performance by a two nil defeat against an imperious French team is complete idiocy.

O’Neill should probably have taken the stoke job. He’s getting well paid but he’s onto a loser with this lack of talent and a lack of understanding of our deficiencies from media and fans.

Dempsey

Dots1982 wrote: »

A few points:

There’s is no point having 5 passes in a row if you are no closer to scoring at the end of the 5 passes than you were at the start. You don’t get awarded goals for consecutive passes. I don’t believe these players are capable of making progress and scoring goals by passing the ball. We don’t have passing midfielders

If you hold onto the ball, you cant concede, you dictate the tempo of the game, you can make the opposition chase the ball, draw them out of position.

If they stand off you, you can hold onto the ball abit more and work it up the field on your terms.

Anyone that has ever done a possession based fitness drill will tell you that holding onto the ball for even 5 passes is better than what happened the other night.

If you bypass midfield, they will stop looking for it

If you dont encourage midfielders into the game by giving them the ball, then you handicapping yourself.

Its not rocket science and you dont need a team built by Guardiola to execute it

The lack of bravery on the ball comes from poor management

Dots1982

Dempsey wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

A few points:

There’s is no point having 5 passes in a row if you are no closer to scoring at the end of the 5 passes than you were at the start. You don’t get awarded goals for consecutive passes. I don’t believe these players are capable of making progress and scoring goals by passing the ball. We don’t have passing midfielders

If you hold onto the ball, you cant concede, you dictate the tempo of the game, you can make the opposition chase the ball, draw them out of position.

If they stand off you, you can hold onto the ball abit more and work it up the field on your terms.

Anyone that has ever done a possession based fitness drill will tell you that holding onto the ball for even 5 passes is better than what happened the other night.

If you bypass midfield, they will stop looking for it

If you dont encourage midfielders into the game by giving them the ball, then you handicapping yourself.

Its not rocket science and you dont need a team built by Guardiola to execute it

The lack of bravery on the ball comes from poor management

What about the risk of losing the ball you take on when you try to play midfield passing progressive football with players who are technically poor?

What about leaving yourself open to pressing and the counter attack through the center of midfield?

GreeBo

Dots1982 wrote: »

A few points:

There’s is no point having 5 passes in a row if you are no closer to scoring at the end of the 5 passes than you were at the start. You don’t get awarded goals for consecutive passes. I don’t believe these players are capable of making progress and scoring goals by passing the ball. We don’t have passing midfielders.

Completely disagree, holding onto the ball is the best way to defend. You dont need to cut people open with every pass, just find someone on your team!

Dots1982 wrote: »

Posters here are paying lip service to ireland’s Squad not being great but they really need to look at the squad for these games and take stock and breathe in just how poor this collection of players are.

Do you seriously believe that this group of players are not able to play simple, short passes to each other?
Again, we are not looking for Beckham specials from one side of the pitch to the other, just feckin side foot it along the ground for 10 yards. Take a breather.

Dots1982 wrote: »

Judging the management’s performance by a two nil defeat against an imperious French team is complete idiocy.

You cant judge how the team played against France because they didnt try to play against France.

Dempsey

Dots1982 wrote: »

What about the risk of losing the ball you take on when you try to play midfield passing progressive football with players who are technically poor?

What about leaving yourself open to pressing and the counter attack through the center of midfield?

When did making a few passes become 'midfield passing progressive football'? :rolleyes: Asking players to hold onto the ball for 5 or 6 passes is stuff you ask schoolboys to do...

These are mainly premier league & championship footballers, they aren't that technically poor, just made look very poor by no game plan. They showed that the could pass the ball abit when encouraged in the 2nd half, even in terrible conditions.

You can still go direct when they press, we'd have a better chance of supporting that type of ball if we had passed the ball until our players were in a position that do so. We are making it so hard for ourselves to transition from defense into attack by hoofing it long in our own 3rd of the field when we have 10 behind ball. Its brain dead stuff that MON hasnt dealt with.

GreeBo

Dempsey wrote: »

When did making a few passes become 'midfield passing progressive football'? :rolleyes: Asking players to hold onto the ball for 5 or 6 passes is stuff you ask schoolboys to do...

These are mainly premier league & championship footballers, they aren't that technically poor, just made look very poor by no game plan. They showed that the could pass the ball abit when encouraged in the 2nd half, even in terrible conditions.

You can still go direct when they press, we'd have a better chance of supporting that type of ball if we had passed the ball until our players were in a position that do so. We are making it so hard for ourselves to transition from defense into attack by hoofing it Long in our own 3rd of the field when we have 10 behind ball. Its brain dead stuff that MON hasnt dealt with.

Feck it, if they press, pass back to the keeper and start again. There will always be one man in green free for the keeper* to find and if in doubt let him hoof it up the pitch if needs be!



*Advice is rendered null & void if your keeper is Karius.

tayto lover

Dots1982 wrote: »

What about the risk of losing the ball you take on when you try to play midfield passing progressive football with players who are technically poor?

What about leaving yourself open to pressing and the counter attack through the center of midfield?

So you'd rather see them hoof it into the opponents half again and let them attack us again.
We'll win feck all games playing that way and hoping they'll keep missing chances.

Dots1982

There is no evidence in the 2nd half I saw that we could hold our own keeping the ball on the ground.

There was little evidence that we could string two passes together in midfield nevermind 5.

If passing helps us scoring goals I’m in favour of it but I haven’t seen any evidence we can pass our way into attacking positions through midfield.

Dots1982

I would rather see us attack’s from the wings with midfield basically asked to 1- defend the back 4, 2- pass it to the wing 3- be an out ball. Coleman overlapping and Brady in crossing positions and hopefully McGuire getting on the end of things.

If we could add some goals from midfield that would be great but darron Gibson was the only midfielder we’ve had recently with a good shot and he was a headcase.

Banjaxed82

Long ball (direct) is nothing to be ashamed of, assuming it's done right. If the midfield are not getting forward to support the attack for the 2nd balls, then you're pissing in the wind.

For Ireland O'Neill has never played long ball how it should be executed. It's not even hit and hope. It's literally hoofing the ball...back to the opposition. The longer this continues, there's only one way we're heading.

GreeBo

Indeed nothing wrong with a bit of long ball to mix things up.
Problems arise when its your only plan for attacking....and defending....and slowing the game down....and adding pressure.

Basically its all we have, we no longer really have someone who can run in behind, so a high defensive line kinda nullifies it as an attack.

Zico !

This is the worst Ireland team I have ever seen complete with a crap manager to make it even worse.