Wedge Loft and bounce

Euphoriasean

Ok so first year playing competition golf and playing off 16(should be higher).

I know it's not the most important aspect of my game right now but in need of new wedges, current ones are fairly rusty and who doesn't like nice shiny clubs.

Currently have 2 vokeys, 60 with 10 degrees of bounce for lob/sand wedge and 50 with 8 degrees of bounce as a gap wedge. Possibly looking at getting 3 wedges. It's probably a personal thing but what loft/bounce combos would you recommend?

Used mack daddy's for a few shots last week and like the feel of them. Would be looking at the MD3 model.

Thanks.

mike12

Find out the loft of your PW.
Then fill in the gaps.
I don't really think u need 3 I use 2 a 52 and a 58.
U would need at least 10 degrees of bounce on the one u are using as a SW.
Less than 8 for the other wedges.

Bottle

Some of the most important things to consider is the distance gapping between PW, GW, SW and LW and what shots you can play or want to play with each. It is also important to consider what ground conditions you will be playing on e.g. parkland or links. I carry a Titleist AP3 PW, Callaway X tour (forged and the feel is class) 50 deg 15 deg bounce, Cleveland RTX 56 deg 14 bounce and a Titleist Vokey 60 deg 4 bounce. I have other ones that I swap in depending on the courses I play, but I tend to take a divot so hence the high bounce, but the vokey gives me great playability from around the green.

There was a Titleist guy doing some wedge fittings a couple of years back, heard great reports then but haven’t heard anything since.

backspin.

In this wet country between 10 and 12 is a good bounce for all wedges imo. Unless you are dealing with very tight lies and you are a good clean chipper of the ball i'd try and stay above 10.

Euphoriasean

Thanks for all the replies. My PW is 45 degrees so gapping wise I could opt for a 52/58 or 50/54/60. I'm much more consistent(well as consistent as a high handicapper can be) with a full shot so I think I would opt for the 3 wedges.

Still a bit confused on the bounce. I play a parkland course so would I be better to opt with 10 degree bounce all around save for the SW at 11/12 degree.

Euphoriasean

backspin. wrote: »

In this wet country between 10 and 12 is a good bounce for all wedges imo. Unless you are dealing with very tight lies and you are a good clean chipper of the ball i'd try and stay above 10.

Sure we haven't seen rain in a week. Costa del Ireland.

Seems like sound advice.

GreeBo

When chipping or pitching do you use the bounce or take a divot?

If you are used to taking a divot then increasing the bounce is gong to take adjustment, likewise if you normally actively use the bounce and you switch to a lower bounce.

I'd worry more about correct gapping tbh.

ShivasIrons

Bounce is your friend

Ronney

Have a gander at this

https://www.vokey.com/tools/wedge-selector-tool.aspx

Have a 47 CB and 52.08, 56.12, 60.04 Vokey set up myself

Never use the 56/60 for full shots.

52 would be my go to for round the Green.
Use the 56 with the Higher bounce out of heavy lies round Green and 60 for most short to medium green side bunkers.


Like having the option of the High and low bounce 56/60 for a range of shots from lies green side

SEORG

My PW is 46
Wedges
50 bounce 10
54 bounce 11
58 bounce 12

My home club is parkland.
Unless you're playing links golf or off of really hard ground off & tight lies I don't see the need for a low bounce wedge, but that's my preference.

As already said, bounce is your friend.

Russman

Op, I’d worry more about the grind on the sole than the actual number for bounce. With the right grind you can still open the face on a relatively high bounce wedge. Likewise a low bounce one can be hard to open if there’s a full sole on it.
Also, even gapping in terms of loft doesn’t necesssrily mean it will translate into even yardage gaps - the only way to know is testing & trial and error.

Now, the controversial bit, purely imho, a 60 degree will cost you more shots than it saves you. It’s such a hard to club to play correctly or “well”, and really should be viewed as only for emergencies. If you have a space in the bag for one, fire away, but be careful not to overuse it.

Euphoriasean

GreeBo wrote: »

When chipping or pitching do you use the bounce or take a divot?

If you are used to taking a divot then increasing the bounce is gong to take adjustment, likewise if you normally actively use the bounce and you switch to a lower bounce.

I'd worry more about correct gapping tbh.

I would normally take a divot when pitching. TBH I don't use the bounce correctly when chipping. Understand the mechanics of it but don't put it into practice.

Think as most people have said I will go for more bounce to begin with. If my game improves to a stage where bounce would make a material impact I could look at changing again.

I suppose I really wanted to confirm the more bounce is required for bunker shots and generally people would use higher bounce on Parkland courses.


Appreciate the replies.

Euphoriasean

Ronney wrote: »

Have a gander at this

https://www.vokey.com/tools/wedge-selector-tool.aspx

Have a 47 CB and 52.08, 56.12, 60.04 Vokey set up myself

Never use the 56/60 for full shots.

52 would be my go to for round the Green.
Use the 56 with the Higher bounce out of heavy lies round Green and 60 for most short to medium green side bunkers.


Like having the option of the High and low bounce 56/60 for a range of shots from lies green side

Thanks. Will definitely take a look.

Euphoriasean

Russman wrote: »

Op, I’d worry more about the grind on the sole than the actual number for bounce. With the right grind you can still open the face on a relatively high bounce wedge. Likewise a low bounce one can be hard to open if there’s a full sole on it.
Also, even gapping in terms of loft doesn’t necesssrily mean it will translate into even yardage gaps - the only way to know is testing & trial and error.

Now, the controversial bit, purely imho, a 60 degree will cost you more shots than it saves you. It’s such a hard to club to play correctly or “well”, and really should be viewed as only for emergencies. If you have a space in the bag for one, fire away, but be careful not to overuse it.

Yeah was looking at grinds. C grind on Callaways would seem to give this variety.

I understand what you mean re the 60 degree. Given I only have a 50 and 60 I would tend to use the 60 quite a bit whereas I could use a 56/58 for the same shot.

I did use it for a miracle shot which crept just over a tree between me and the green and landed within 4 feet. That being said I can't remember the last time I needed to play this shot.

GreeBo

Euphoriasean wrote: »

I would normally take a divot when pitching. TBH I don't use the bounce correctly when chipping. Understand the mechanics of it but don't put it into practice.

Think as most people have said I will go for more bounce to begin with. If my game improves to a stage where bounce would make a material impact I could look at changing again.

I suppose I really wanted to confirm the more bounce is required for bunker shots and generally people would use higher bounce on Parkland courses.


Appreciate the replies.

I wouldn't say more bounce is "required" for bunker shots, but it can certainly help.
I have a mixture of bounces on my wedges, as long as you know what they are and they impact they have, having a mixture is great as you pick the one for the situation.

High bounce on parkland is fine, but there will be a few weeks a year that it could badly (blady? ) catch you out.

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

I wouldn't say more bounce is "required" for bunker shots, but it can certainly help.
I have a mixture of bounces on my wedges, as long as you know what they are and they impact they have, having a mixture is great as you pick the one for the situation.

High bounce on parkland is fine, but there will be a few weeks a year that it could badly (blady? ) catch you out.

i don't really understand bounce and what it does. can you explain it a bit please greebo

GreeBo

Seve OB wrote: »

i don't really understand bounce and what it does. can you explain it a bit please greebo

It raises the leading edge of the club and helps to stop it digging in.

For a bunker shot this means you can hit down without having to worry too much about burying the club in the sand. For the soft ground conditions that we normally play in, it servers the same effect. Less likely to dig in and chunk the shot.

For a tight lie it can mean that you blade the ball if you don't attack the ball with a descending blow.
(Don't stand near a scouper hitting from a tight lie with a lot of bounce)

Its why game improver irons have such wide soles too.

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

It raises the leading edge of the club and helps to stop it digging in.

For a bunker shot this means you can hit down without having to worry too much about burying the club in the sand. For the soft ground conditions that we normally play in, it servers the same effect. Less likely to dig in and chunk the shot.

For a tight lie it can mean that you blade the ball if you don't attack the ball with a descending blow.
(Don't stand near a scouper hitting from a tight lie with a lot of bounce)

Its why game improver irons have such wide soles too.

ok thanks. that makes a bit of sense
ive 3 wedges, but only 2 in my bag atm
52, 56 & 58. all 10 bounce, which would be medium i think.

for gettng spin (don't mean like the pros spinning back yards) but rather to just get the ball to stop reasonably quickly, would more or less bounce be optimal?

GreeBo

Seve OB wrote: »

ok thanks. that makes a bit of sense
ive 3 wedges, but only 2 in my bag atm
52, 56 & 58. all 10 bounce, which would be medium i think.

for gettng spin (don't mean like the pros spinning back yards) but rather to just get the ball to stop reasonably quickly, would more or less bounce be optimal?

Its kinda not related, spin is a function of speed, loft and AoA.

You'll likely get more spin from a bunker with more bounce because you will be less likely to dig deep behind the ball and lose speed. But bounce on its own wont give you more spin.

Are you talking about pitches/chips or full shots btw?

You will see much more spin on short shots if you swing flatter and hit down on the ball *less*. A descending, delofted blow makes it very difficult to get the correct spin loft/compression and produce spin.

Andrew Rice has a nice video on it.
https://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2013/02/compress-the-golf-ball

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

Its kinda not related, spin is a function of speed, loft and AoA.

You'll likely get more spin from a bunker with more bounce because you will be less likely to dig deep behind the ball and lose speed. But bounce on its own wont give you more spin.

Are you talking about pitches/chips or full shots btw?

You will see much more spin on short shots if you swing flatter and hit down on the ball *less*. A descending, delofted blow makes it very difficult to get the correct spin loft/compression and produce spin.

Andrew Rice has a nice video on it.
https://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2013/02/compress-the-golf-ball

i've been struggling lately with shots from 100yards in to say about 60. distance control is not to bad (not perfect - why i'm not pro ) but the bal just seems to roll out an awful lot on me, lots of times right through the green. I know the easy answer is to play it shorter and let it roll ou to the hole, but not always possible if you are playing in over a hazard or a shallow green.
i've had a lesson on it and am working on it, definately improving, but i just though that it might be related to the bounce so figured i'd ask.

AhHaor

https://twitter.com/ClubProGuy/status/988911837419798530

All you need to know about bounce

GreeBo

Seve OB wrote: »

i've been struggling lately with shots from 100yards in to say about 60. distance control is not to bad (not perfect - why i'm not pro ) but the bal just seems to roll out an awful lot on me, lots of times right through the green. I know the easy answer is to play it shorter and let it roll ou to the hole, but not always possible if you are playing in over a hazard or a shallow green.
i've had a lesson on it and am working on it, definately improving, but i just though that it might be related to the bounce so figured i'd ask.

Wandering off topic, but more loft and faster/accelerating swing should help.

Even for a half swing you need to make sure you are accelerating into the ball, a decelerating, scoupy swing will have little spin on the ball.

Though at this time of year with dry, hard greens the ball is going to roll just roll out

Roger_007

Seve OB wrote: »

i've been struggling lately with shots from 100yards in to say about 60. distance control is not to bad (not perfect - why i'm not pro ) but the bal just seems to roll out an awful lot on me, lots of times right through the green. I know the easy answer is to play it shorter and let it roll ou to the hole, but not always possible if you are playing in over a hazard or a shallow green.
i've had a lesson on it and am working on it, definately improving, but i just though that it might be related to the bounce so figured i'd ask.

I've found that the wider the swing arc with my wedges the more spin, or stop, I get. I try to keep my left arm as straight and 'stretched' as possible throughout the swing and aim for contact with the ground about 1 inch beyond the ball. This takes the bounce out of the equation. Also I try to grip the club as loosely as I can so that it can swing naturally through the ball rather than being 'pushed' or forced.

ShivasIrons

GreeBo wrote: »

Its kinda not related, spin is a function of speed, loft and AoA.

You'll likely get more spin from a bunker with more bounce because you will be less likely to dig deep behind the ball and lose speed. But bounce on its own wont give you more spin.

Are you talking about pitches/chips or full shots btw?

You will see much more spin on short shots if you swing flatter and hit down on the ball *less*. A descending, delofted blow makes it very difficult to get the correct spin loft/compression and produce spin.

Andrew Rice has a nice video on it.
https://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2013/02/compress-the-golf-ball

Friction is also a factor in spin, more spin comes from a bunker due to the friction from the sand, digging deep and losing speed is not why it spins less, it's because there's less friction.


Also angle of attack has no effect on spin, hitting down on the ball less or more doesn't increase spin. It's the spin loft you mention which effects spin, spin loft is mostly the difference between the attack angle and the dynamic loft of the club so hitting down on the ball more while increasing the dynamic loft will mean more spin.

Seve OB

Roger_007 wrote: »

I've found that the wider the swing arc with my wedges the more spin, or stop, I get. I try to keep my left arm as straight and 'stretched' as possible throughout the swing and aim for contact with the ground about 1 inch beyond the ball. This takes the bounce out of the equation. Also I try to grip the club as loosely as I can so that it can swing naturally through the ball rather than being 'pushed' or forced.

prety close to what i'm working on

that flat out at bottom of the swing, as mentioned in the video greebo linked to

dan_ep82

Don't forget ball, you won't see much spin from a Pinnacale Gold unless you knife it

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Also angle of attack has no effect on spin, hitting down on the ball less or more doesn't increase spin. It's the spin loft you mention which effects spin, spin loft is mostly the difference between the attack angle and the dynamic loft of the club so hitting down on the ball more while increasing the dynamic loft will mean more spin.

If spin loft is a function of angle of attack and dynamic loft, and spin loft controls spin, how can you say angle of attack has no effect on spin?!

The more you hit down on the ball the harder it is to increase spin loft.
Its very hard to hit down without delofting the club.

spacecoyote

Couple of good videos on the topic of spin Seve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9HZ79OLx7E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDJCxgKyLBM

ShivasIrons

GreeBo wrote: »

If spin loft is a function of angle of attack and dynamic loft, and spin loft controls spin, how can you say angle of attack has no effect on spin?!

The more you hit down on the ball the harder it is to increase spin loft.
Its very hard to hit down without delofting the club.

Spin loft is the primarily the difference between the angle of attack and dynamic loft. Hitting up or down on the ball won't change the amount a ball spins. It is possible and not that difficult to hit down and add loft.

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Spin loft is the primarily the difference between the angle of attack and dynamic loft. Hitting up or down on the ball won't change the amount a ball spins. It is possible and not that difficult to hit down and add loft.

So angle of attack is different than hitting down on the ball?

ShivasIrons

GreeBo wrote: »

So angle of attack is different than hitting down on the ball?

Angle of attack is a measure of how the club is approaching the ball it can be downward or upward.