Dublin Bus issues

_Kaiser_

thomasj wrote: »

I'm surprised there isn't a superthread where people vent their fury over service issues.

There was an issue where I went on twitter to vent my fury over a 39a no-show . It wasn't the first time either last Saturday there was a gap of 45 minutes inbound for a 15 minute frequency .

While I was on twitter I was surprised to see the amount of "apologies that service didn't run due to operational difficulties " in the past week there were a large number.

Anyone else having these issues with their route?

Nothing much has changed with the 39 then I see.

Back in the days when I was living in that area and using buses daily, I stood waiting for almost an hour one evening while 14 buses went by in the other direction.

As for the leave entitlement questions... yes, people should certainly use their annual leave, but the manager is responsible for ensuing that the rest of the team/business doesn't suffer as a result (which may mean saying "No" sometimes).

A good manager will be able to schedule things so that he/she can be flexible with staff asks when possible, but with the "deal" being that sometimes it's not and the needs of the business/customer must come first. Good staff will similarly recognize this.

Tickityboo

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Nothing much has changed with the 39 then I see.

Back in the days when I was living in that area and using buses daily, I stood waiting for almost an hour one evening while 14 buses went by in the other direction.

As for the leave entitlement questions... yes, people should certainly use their annual leave, but the manager is responsible for ensuing that the rest of the team/business doesn't suffer as a result (which may mean saying "No" sometimes).

A good manager will be able to schedule things so that he/she can be flexible with staff asks when possible, but with the "deal" being that sometimes it's not and the needs of the business/customer must come first. Good staff will similarly recognize this.

Drivers in Dublin Bus are refused leave all the time.

Bass Reeves

Tickityboo wrote: »

There is no pick of holidays in Dublin Bus.
Everybody is allocated a 3 week slot between May and September.
If you are allocated May this year it skips to a different month the following year.
Drivers have to try and swap amongst each other to get the weeks they need.

Looking at it from the outside with staff having an average of approximately 23 days leave it seems in DB staff are allowed to take over 65% of it in a 5 month period. Companies that run all year round service only allow 2 weeks during the summer holiday season with maybe 1-2 flexi days depending on service requirements. Allowing 65% of holiday time to be taken during a 45% time window will always effect service especially nowadays with tourism demands, concerts etc.

Senior staff with less all year round demand on there time will always benefit from this system. Reducing theater slot to 2 weeks would have With a few flexi day would bring equilibrium to the holiday season.

Del2005

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Looking at it from the outside with staff having an average of approximately 23 days leave it seems in DB staff are allowed to take over 65% of it in a 5 month period. Companies that run all year round service only allow 2 weeks during the summer holiday season with maybe 1-2 flexi days depending on service requirements. Allowing 65% of holiday time to be taken during a 45% time window will always effect service especially nowadays with tourism demands, concerts etc.

Senior staff with less all year round demand on there time will always benefit from this system. Reducing theater slot to 2 weeks would have With a few flexi day would bring equilibrium to the holiday season.

Why would they have a balanced holiday schedule when they have highly seasonal loading? Forcing employees, especially with children, to take 2 weeks in February when you have full loading doesn't make sense. The loadings will drop hugely in the next few weeks so they should concentrate the holidays now.

brokenarms

Even to get a Saturday off now in Dublin Bus is like pulling teeth.

A company that does not allow you to take hols off the same time your kids are off school is a bad place to work.

Stephen15

Summer timetables being introduced from the 18th June only on the 9, 46a, 122 and 123 this year.

Bass Reeves

Del2005 wrote: »

Why would they have a balanced holiday schedule when they have highly seasonal loading? Forcing employees, especially with children, to take 2 weeks in February when you have full loading doesn't make sense. The loadings will drop hugely in the next few weeks so they should concentrate the holidays now.

I am not necessarily saying that you balance completely throughout the year but allowing 65% of holidays to be taken in a 45% window is crazy. More than likely even at that June, July and August are probably even more overloaded. Most service companies only allow 2 weeks during the summer with a few flexi days. Yes it means that people have to take holidays during g off season but even with kids there is Easter and mid term. As well in other area it is not unheard of for staff to swop shifts around during to accommodate a fellow workers to have a few day together to do something.

punisher5112

I actually can't wait till robots drive buses.

thomasj

Had the same problem last night , went for a bus at 20.20, 39a came at 21.00

Also saw complaints on twitter about outbound on Friday evening .

More and more of these problems seem to be occuring after 7pm , so when these problems occur and people contact Dublin bus twitter they don't get a reply until the next morning and it's a "sorry we we're offline last night when you tweeted, did you catch your bus?"

Just to be clear on this, I do not blame drivers or admin on these problems. They have a contract to do a specific job and they do a great job, given the circumstances.

But the onus is on management to check how some of this can be resolved with the available resources. I do understand the shortage of drivers fair enough, but there is a need for someone to be posting this information on a webpage at the earliest possible time during operational hours (not just 7-7) We've seen rtpis limitations when circumstances occur .

It's not fair for people to be standing at a busstop waiting for a bus that Dublin bus know is not going to come

Irish rail and bus eireann have done this , i don't see why Dublin bus can't

Zebra3

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

That's a typical public sector issue. In every company I worked in its been first come first served because it's fair to everyone. .

I can't see how 'first come first served' could be fair. An employye with 40 weeks service can sign before an employee with 40 years service? And what determines who's first to come? What if an employee was on annual leave, maternity leave etc. when the leave is being allocated? I've never worked for any employer where the leave was done that way.

At least seniority in service is very black and white. There's no grey (employees who began on the same day are done alphabetically). I've never known anyone to dispute where they stand and it provides something to give back to staff with long service.

Absolutely staggering attitude.

The thoughts of working in a job that discriminates between its’ employees like that....

dublinbuster

There is no such thing as senior or junior when it comes to holiday allocation.
All drivers are treated the same.
Drivers get turned down for holidays all the time.

Missing buses is due to the weather, who the hell would want to spend any extra time on a hot sweaty smelly bus?
Drivers have a life outside of work, the sun is shining they want to do other things beside work, so don't do OT.
There is no conspiracy, no Union disruption, no mismanagement, drivers are just doing their shift, not doing OT and going home to enjoying the sun and having a social life

Caranica

If you guys have issues on the 39 routes,you should try slumming it over this side of Blanchardstown on the 38 routes. The 38bs in the morning run when and if they want to, so unreliable. Ditto any type of 38 in the evenings from the city centre, last Tuesday there was a 39 minute wait on O'Connell Street at 6.20pm. Not the nicest place to be waiting. And don't get me started on the weekend services.

punisher5112

I can tell you for a fact number one issue is traffic congestion, dwell times at stopsand so much more.

devnull

Caranica wrote: »

If you guys have issues on the 39 routes,you should try slumming it over this side of Blanchardstown on the 38 routes. The 38bs in the morning run when and if they want to, so unreliable. Ditto any type of 38 in the evenings from the city centre, last Tuesday there was a 39 minute wait on O'Connell Street at 6.20pm. Not the nicest place to be waiting. And don't get me started on the weekend services.

I regularly used to commute on the 38 in the past and it was always an unpredictable bus even when there wasn't traffic, it was first thing in the morning where a bus should never have problems, even on the first departures of the day from near the terminus

It was very miserable and the most annoying thing was seeing your bus drive out of service roughly the same time it was due and you knew that it was your bus since it was the same bus and the same driver that turned up the day before but it seemed to be a lottery if it would run in or out of service.

punisher5112

Complain directly to Anne Graham nta, Ray Coyne db CEO, tds in area as much as can.

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

Complain directly to Anne Graham nta, Ray Coyne db CEO, tds in area as much as can.

And the head of CIE aswell.

LeinsterDub

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Needs to be an independent survey carried out on each and every dublin bus route and cross referenced for a full quality assessment some of the bus routes are downright mayhem 5 buses in quick succession then none for 45 minutes.

Services need to be split in two directions over parts of the day make the city centre the terminus and send the buses in the opposite directions to say on the number 16 the airport northbound and Ballinter south bound rather than having the bus go cross city send them from an origin point in each direction it would increase productivity and reduce journey times anyone that needs to travel cross city offer a cross city fare.

We need less routes not more . No wonder DB are struggling to allocate staff they've 143 routes listed on their web site!

LeinsterDub

Del2005 wrote: »

By law staff have to get 2 weeks holidays in a row every year. If you have to give holidays and there is no other staff to cover the shift how is the person supposed to get their legally required holiday that you told them they have to take at a certain date? In a company with staffing shortages and bad conditions for new entrants you don't want to be loosing the staff you already have by forcing them to cancel holidays they've already paid for.

In the private sector sone companies close for 2 weeks in the summer and a week over Christmas so their customers aren't coming first.

I've never heard of this is Ireland . What law?

GM228

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I've never heard of this is Ireland . What law?

This is true, but is not absolute, it is subject to at least 8 months work per leave year and also collective agreements etc.

S19 (3) of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997:-

(3) The annual leave of an employee who works 8 or more months in a leave year shall, subject to the provisions of any employment regulation order, registered employment agreement, collective agreement or any agreement between the employee and his or her employer, include an unbroken period of 2 weeks.

howiya

42 minute wait for a 14 at Eden Quay. Got to love public transport. Hails taxi

KD345

LeinsterDub wrote: »

We need less routes not more . No wonder DB are struggling to allocate staff they've 143 routes listed on their web site!

The number of routes does not mean each route has the same number of drivers allocated to it. You could have 50 routes and still need the same level of buses and drivers.

Some Dublin Bus routes only require one driver and bus, others have over 60. Also, some routes have drivers which would cover multiple routes, for example, some driver shifts on the 46A would also cover the 46E, 47, 63, 118 and 142.
Some drivers also work universal shifts which means they could be driving one route in the morning and another in the evening.

It’s easy to say, “they have 143 routes, no wonder they are struggling to find staff”, but the fact is that each of those routes are required across the network. There are plans to improve routes with Bus Connects which might see less route variations but actually result in more busies and more drivers required.

Stephen15

Out of all DB drivers what percentage would be marked in on a route. If drivers are waiting 11+ years to be marked in I'd imagine it would be a small number. I do think the marking in system sounds a bit riddiculous spare drivers should in my opinion at least be given a weeks schedule of what shifts they will be doing and perhaps be given an extra allowance if there is any changes to it to fill in for any drivers out sick at short notice etc.

Stephen15

KD345 wrote: »

The number of routes does not mean each route has the same number of drivers allocated to it. You could have 50 routes and still need the same level of buses and drivers.

Some Dublin Bus routes only require one driver and bus, others have over 60. Also, some routes have drivers which would cover multiple routes, for example, some driver shifts on the 46A would also cover the 46E, 47, 63, 118 and 142.
Some drivers also work universal shifts which means they could be driving one route in the morning and another in the evening.

It’s easy to say, “they have 143 routes, no wonder they are struggling to find staff”, but the fact is that each of those routes are required across the network. There are plans to improve routes with Bus Connects which might see less route variations but actually result in more busies and more drivers required.

The one or two a day buses such as the the 46e should really be done away. They should be replaced by extra departures on more frequent routes.

KD345

Stephen15 wrote: »

The one or two a day buses such as the the 46e should really be done away. They should be replaced by extra departures on more frequent routes.

Why? It carries good numbers and adds much needed capacity at peak times on the Stillorgan Road. No matter what you send down the the N11 at peak will be full, whether it’s a 46a or 46e.

Don’t judge a route by its timetable. I’d suggest taking the 116 some morning from Whitechurch and see how quickly a VT fills up.

The once a day services are there for a reason and usually carry regular passengers from local areas before joining main corridors to add capacity. If they were not picking up numbers they’d have been cancelled during Network Direct. Stand on Leeson Street bridge and observe the 46e. It is full every morning.

Stephen15

KD345 wrote: »

Why? It carries good numbers and adds much needed capacity at peak times on the Stillorgan Road. No matter what you send down the the N11 at peak will be full, whether it’s a 46a or 46e.

Don’t judge a route by its timetable. I’d suggest taking the 116 some morning from Whitechurch and see how quickly a VT fills up.

The once a day services are there for a reason and usually carry regular passengers from local areas before joining main corridors to add capacity. If they were not picking up numbers they’d have been cancelled during Network Direct. Stand on Leeson Street bridge and observe the 46e. It is full every morning.

I know it gets a good loading but surely it would make more sense to run the two departures as a 46a from DL to the Phoenix Park as it would serve more people. I would say most of it's users are from Whites Cross onwards and more people would use it coming from DL. People at the bottom of Newtownpark Avenue can use the 4 and people at the top can use the 46a or 145.

The 116 is more of a schools service than anything else. It should be term time only. Waste of resources running it in the summer months especially with the shortage of drivers.

dublinbuster

howiya wrote: »

42 minute wait for a 14 at Eden Quay. Got to love public transport. Hails taxi

where is nearest toilet to terminus on south and north side?
what time do pubs open at?
do you expect female drivers to squat and piss on side of road?
simple little thing like needing to piss can cause a bus to be delayed, zero consideration given to this when choosing terminus of route

dublinbuster

Stephen15 wrote: »

Out of all DB drivers what percentage would be marked in on a route. .

heard 60/40 split

Stephen15

dublinbuster wrote: »

heard 60/40 split

In favour of?

dublinbuster

Stephen15 wrote: »

In favour of?

marked in/spare

Stephen15

dublinbuster wrote: »

marked in/spare

Surprised so 60% of drivers are marked in meaning they've served for around 15 years. How come if drivers are leaving their droves how come DB have such a high staff retention rate?

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

Surprised so 60% of drivers are marked in meaning they've served for around 15 years. How come if drivers are leaving their droves how come DB have such a high staff retention rate?

The staff leaving in their droves I would suspect would be those who are newer to the company. When any kind of seniority system is in place, the biggest problem you will have is being able to retain recently hired staff as they get disillusioned easily as everything is stacked against them.

lucernarian

devnull wrote: »

The staff leaving in their droves I would suspect would be those who are newer to the company. When any kind of seniority system is in place, the biggest problem you will have is being able to retain recently hired staff as they get disillusioned easily as everything is stacked against them.

Yeah, the only drivers I met who left Dublin Bus, had been in the company for less than 3 years. Not that I know many ex-DB drivers who weren't retired, but it matches my limited observations.

Drivers *can* get marked in a fair bit sooner if they go for more unpopular routes, I've heard of drivers being marked in after 5 years service. What those routes are? I don't know.

punisher5112

lucernarian wrote: »

Yeah, the only drivers I met who left Dublin Bus, had been in the company for less than 3 years. Not that I know many ex-DB drivers who weren't retired, but it matches my limited observations.

Drivers *can* get marked in a fair bit sooner if they go for more unpopular routes, I've heard of drivers being marked in after 5 years service. What those routes are? I don't know.

It use to be 5 years or less over 12 years ago but no longer like that.

LeinsterDub

KD345 wrote: »

The number of routes does not mean each route has the same number of drivers allocated to it. You could have 50 routes and still need the same level of buses and drivers.

Some Dublin Bus routes only require one driver and bus, others have over 60. Also, some routes have drivers which would cover multiple routes, for example, some driver shifts on the 46A would also cover the 46E, 47, 63, 118 and 142.
Some drivers also work universal shifts which means they could be driving one route in the morning and another in the evening.

It’s easy to say, “they have 143 routes, no wonder they are struggling to find staff”, but the fact is that each of those routes are required across the network. There are plans to improve routes with Bus Connects which might see less route variations but actually result in more busies and more drivers required.

I never equated the number of routes with the difficulty finding staff .

My point was . While in theory you could have 1 route with 50 drivers or 50 routes with 1 driver. Each route you add increases the HR overhead , increases the impact of holidays or sickness. If you've 1 route with 50 drivers you can have 60 drivers hired , allow 5 to be on holiday and 5 a spares. If you've 50 routes with 1 driver , each route needs a driver to cover it , this could be a pool of spares but it's a bit much to expect the spares to know every route so maybe you need 20 spares. What happens when 1 drives is on holiday and the spare is sick etc.

KD345

Every Dublin Bus depot has a large pool of spare drivers who are trained on all routes, and most other drivers from each depot would have good knowledge of them too. Staff training is not the problem here, neither are the route variations.

While you quote 143 routes, there are realistically less than 70 ‘routes’ for drivers in Dublin Bus, with multiple routes treated as one duty. For example, a driver on the 42 would also work some of their shift on the 43, similar with the 7/7a, and routes like the 26, 66/a/b are all under the one duty. To the passenger they are all different but internally it’s a lot more simple.

LeinsterDub

KD345 wrote: »

Every Dublin Bus depot has a large pool of spare drivers who are trained on all routes, and most other drivers from each depot would have good knowledge of them too. Staff training is not the problem here, neither are the route variations.

While you quote 143 routes, there are realistically less than 70 ‘routes’ for drivers in Dublin Bus, with multiple routes treated as one duty. For example, a driver on the 42 would also work some of their shift on the 43, similar with the 7/7a, and routes like the 26, 66/a/b are all under the one duty. To the passenger they are all different but internally it’s a lot more simple.

Fair enough. It would appear it's not so much of an issue as I'd guessed.

dublinman1990

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I never equated the number of routes with the difficulty finding staff .

My point was . While in theory you could have 1 route with 50 drivers or 50 routes with 1 driver. Each route you add increases the HR overhead , increases the impact of holidays or sickness. If you've 1 route with 50 drivers you can have 60 drivers hired , allow 5 to be on holiday and 5 a spares. If you've 50 routes with 1 driver , each route needs a driver to cover it , this could be a pool of spares but it's a bit much to expect the spares to know every route so maybe you need 20 spares. What happens when 1 drives is on holiday and the spare is sick etc.

I suspect the passengers would be screwed either way as their scheduled bus will not be showing up at their stop.

Then these passengers would have a choice to make afterwards.

If they wait for another bus at their stop; they will take it.

If they have a train service near to them; they will take it.

If they have a LUAS near to them; they will take it.

They could ring up their loved one or friend for a lift.

If all the above options fail; they will probably walk if they are able for it.

LeinsterDub

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I suspect the passengers would be screwed either way as their scheduled bus will not be showing up at their stop.

Then these passengers would have a choice to make afterwards.

If they wait for another bus at their stop; they will take it.

If they have a train service near to them; they will take it.

If they have a LUAS near to them; they will take it.

They could ring up their loved one or friend for a lift.

If all the above options fail; they will probably walk if they are able for it.

I'm not sure how this relates to my post or what you're even trying to say?

dublinbuster

lucernarian wrote: »

Drivers *can* get marked in a fair bit sooner if they go for more unpopular routes, I've heard of drivers being marked in after 5 years service. What those routes are? I don't know.

you heard wrong
nothing in the sentence you posted is true

howiya

dublinbuster wrote: »

where is nearest toilet to terminus on south and north side?
what time do pubs open at?
do you expect female drivers to squat and piss on side of road?
simple little thing like needing to piss can cause a bus to be delayed, zero consideration given to this when choosing terminus of route

When I started waiting the wait was 51 minutes. I gave it a few minutes thinking a 14C might start at Eden Quay. I gave up at 42 minutes.

A gap of 51 minutes is not one driver needing a toilet break when there should be a bus every 20 minutes.

And no I do not expect female or male drivers to go to the toilet on the side of the road.

Stephen15

I was on a bus today and some pigs left the bus in an absolute mess. Someone left a rotting away disgusting half eaten sandwich on the ground, a load of chicken bones the smell was disgusting and bag full of household waste must be people using buses to fly tip.

I'm not blaming DB for this but people should have more respect for others than to treat public transport a dumping ground. I don't neessecarily mind food and drink on buses a can of coke or a packet sweets is ok if you take the empty wrappers with you but people should have more respect than to eat anything that smells, crumbs or leave they're empties behind.

Lord Glentoran

Stephen15 wrote: »

I was on a bus today and some pigs left the bus in an absolute mess. Someone left a rotting away disgusting half eaten sandwich on the ground, a load of chicken bones the smell was disgusting and bag full of household waste must be people using buses to fly tip.

I'm not blaming DB for this but people should have more respect for others than to treat public transport a dumping ground. I don't neessecarily mind food and drink on buses a can of coke or a packet sweets is ok if you take the empty wrappers with you but people should have more respect than to eat anything that smells, crumbs or leave they're empties behind.

The problem is enforcement. How in the name of God would anyone, let alone the Guards or any transport police, want to confront the feral lowlifes that do this?