Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2018

Irishmale0399

ricero wrote: »

If Dembele does want out we should be all over him. I think hes a superstar in the making.

Cant see Klopp touching him with a barge pole. Not only did he get first hand accounts of what Dembele did at BVB, he also left Klopps house in a right state as part of the protest.

Turtyturd

Milner seems to be training Robertson well, maybe he should give Karius some advice...

rob316

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Cant see Klopp touching him with a barge pole. Not only did he get first hand accounts of what Dembele did at BVB, he also left Klopps house in a right state as part of the protest.

Klopp also said recently if he's on the market he is interested.

Gbear

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Cant see Klopp touching him with a barge pole. Not only did he get first hand accounts of what Dembele did at BVB, he also left Klopps house in a right state as part of the protest.

A loan might make sense, unless they really need the money, but he'll probably not lose too much more of his value.

What was he? €115m or something mad?

Not sure anyone would pay even half that at the moment. For one, there's a lack of clubs who'd fancy taking the punt in general, but for Clubs like maybe Chelsea if Hazard goes, they'll be looking for more experienced options.

Could be a chance to do something clever.

A 2 year loan with a 100m buyout clause at the end might make sense.

SuperTortoise

Would'nt be gone on that Dembele lad, first of all i think he has an attitude, let's not forget the way he left Dortmund.
Secondly it would be well over 100M, you'd want to be buying the finished article or very close to it at that sort of money.
Thirdly, we've spent a lot of money already, despite what people think, the Coutinho money is lone gone!!

SuperTortoise

rob316 wrote: »

Klopp also said recently if he's on the market he is interested.

Was'nt that Pulisic he was talking about?

Talisman

Besiktas have sold their goalkeeper to Fulham. They were linked with a move for Mignolet in February and before the World Cup so we could be seeing his departure from the club in the next few days.

Harry Palmr

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Would'nt be gone on that Dembele lad, first of all i think he has an attitude, let's not forget the way he left Dortmund.
Secondly it would be well over 100M, you'd want to be buying the finished article or very close to it at that sort of money.
Thirdly, we've spent a lot of money already, despite what people think, the Coutinho money is lone gone!!

LIES! :mad: :pac:

Sure, the big clean out is being talked of as raising about 100m, obviously it may well not - but they'll clear 60-70 million I expect and that'll be enough to make an offer viable.

~Rebel~

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Was'nt that Pulisic he was talking about?

Both. He said the Dembele thing a good while back. It was a tongue in cheek response to shut down the question really, sarcastic fake-surprise at Dembele supposedly being for sale (which he obviously wasn't). But equally, as sarcastic and jokey as it was, it still had the tone of "obviously he's a great player.."

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Would'nt be gone on that Dembele lad, first of all i think he has an attitude, let's not forget the way he left Dortmund.
Secondly it would be well over 100M, you'd want to be buying the finished article or very close to it at that sort of money.
Thirdly, we've spent a lot of money already, despite what people think, the Coutinho money is lone gone!!

Attitude I wouldn't worry about too much, he actually seems quite a quiet chap in everything i've seen of him. As for how he left Dortmund, well, look how VVD left Southampton or how Coutinho left us... **** enough behaviour in both cases, but we know both are decent guys to have in your squad... what players do to make sure their big moves happen has to be overlooked to some extent (within reason of course), it's just a reality of the business.

ERG89

Fekir, Dembele, Pulisic ain't coming. We've spent a fair bit already, we'll trim the squad down & that's it. Sturridge & Shakiri will be our backups in attack. Plans changed when signing Alisson became a priority over Fekir.

~Rebel~

ERG89 wrote: »

Fekir, Dembele, Pulisic ain't coming. We've spent a fair bit already, we'll trim the squad down & that's it. Sturridge & Shakiri will be our backups in attack. Plans changed when signing Alisson became a priority over Fekir.

Not really sure this is a thing that happened to be honest... doesn't sound like it from all the information available.

Harry Palmr

If Liverpool don;t buy anyone it won't be because of money, Liverpool are rolling in it.

Coutinho (cash part) 105m
Champions League UEFA income 67.8m + match day income + commercial partner triggered bonuses - 20m?
PL money pot 145m
Danny Ward - 12m

So roughly in the last 12 months without trying to estimate match day PL income and commercial partner income

Total 350m

Expenditure

VVD 75m
Fabinho 40m
Alisson 56m
Shaqiri 13m
(Keita was bought last summer so I'm not including him)

Total 194m

~Rebel~

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If Liverpool don;t buy anyone it won't be because of money, Liverpool are rolling in it.

Coutinho (cash part) 105m
Champions League UEFA income 67.8m + match day income + commercial partner triggered bonuses - 20m?
PL money pot 145m
Danny Ward - 12m

So roughly in the last 12 months without trying to estimate match day PL income and commercial partner income

Total 350m

Expenditure

VVD 75m
Fabinho 40m
Alisson 56m
Shaqiri 13m
(Keita was bought last summer so I'm not including him)

Total 194m

If you're counting the bulk of the various income streams, then it seems only fair to include the ~200m annual wage bill... I agree with your point though, I really don't think there was any sort of Alisson OR Fekir decision, and if the right player appears for a price they're happy with, 'Pool will go for it.

ERG89

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Not really sure this is a thing that happened to be honest... doesn't sound like it from all the information available.

Our interest has cooled on him since we bought a goalie for around the same price. People are only setting themselves up talking about Dembele or Pulisic when we have 2 wingers who are already better than them. Fekir, I feel Keita will play in his role anyway as he offers more what is required in our midfield.
We're Liverpool so spending over 100 million in a window ain't normal without a major sale and thankfully we haven't done that. We'll sell a few now as our squad is bloated with players who won't get game time when the windows close.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If Liverpool don;t buy anyone it won't be because of money, Liverpool are rolling in it.

Coutinho (cash part) 105m
Champions League UEFA income 67.8m + match day income + commercial partner triggered bonuses - 20m?
PL money pot 145m
Danny Ward - 12m

So roughly in the last 12 months without trying to estimate match day PL income and commercial partner income

Total 350m

Expenditure

VVD 75m
Fabinho 40m
Alisson 56m
Shaqiri 13m
(Keita was bought last summer so I'm not including him)

Total 194m

Those players & our squad will require wages, other fees/bonuses & we've handed out a new contract or 2 lately as well. We're not penny pinching if we don't spend as spending over 300 million in the last 3 windows is a lot

~Rebel~

ERG89 wrote: »

Our interest has cooled on him since we bought a goalie for around the same price. People are only setting themselves up talking about Dembele or Pulisic when we have 2 wingers who are already better than them. Fekir, I feel Keita will play in his role anyway as he offers more what is required in our midfield.
We're Liverpool so spending over 100 million in a window ain't normal without a major sale and thankfully we haven't done that. We'll sell a few now as our squad is bloated with players who won't get game time when the windows close.

Our interest in him cooled around 7 weeks before we bought a goalie, on the back of a medical, after terms had been agreed.

I agree that we likely won't be moving for another top top quality winger, but it's not because we bought Alisson.

I think what is and isn't normal is out the window now, as 100m very much is not what 100m was even a year ago. Just as our income streams are several multiples larger than they ever were before. Breaking the world record for a keeper, and for a CB were also not very Liverpool things to do, but here we are.

rob316

I think Klopp will be weary adding too many new faces anyway, while culling the squad. We can always revisit in January anyway.

Harry Palmr

You can play a Salah as a faux striker with Dembele on the right.































Or you can play Daniel Sturridge as a faux striker for that matter

ballyargus

I really like Sturridge but he has become something of a Carlos Kaiser. I really hope that he shows even flashed of what he could once do. Brilliant with the ball at his feet he could just ghost through defences.

ERG89

ballyargus wrote:

I really like Sturridge but he has become something of a Carlos Kaiser.

A footballer who never in his career played a league game much less scored??
Don't see the correlation at all. He still has nearly a 1 in 2 record for us.
It's pretty obvious his career has went a different trajectory with injuries reducing his pace, belief in himself & has seemed incapable to fully adjust to Klopp's style for some time even when he was fit.

Harry, pointed out out already but you missed the biggest drain on cash.

Read somewhere recently that we have a roughly £200m per year salary bill.

garra

ballyargus wrote: »

I really like Sturridge but he has become something of a Carlos Kaiser. I really hope that he shows even flashed of what he could once do. Brilliant with the ball at his feet he could just ghost through defences.

Did you mean Kaiser Soze?

Turtyturd

The ‘1 in 2’ statistic is back, now with added ‘almost’.

Ignoring the Suarez days he’s almost 1 in 3, and probably most relevant, in his last two seasons he’s 1 in 7.

Talisman

Gbear wrote: »

A loan might make sense, unless they really need the money, but he'll probably not lose too much more of his value.

What was he? €115m or something mad?

Not sure anyone would pay even half that at the moment. For one, there's a lack of clubs who'd fancy taking the punt in general, but for Clubs like maybe Chelsea if Hazard goes, they'll be looking for more experienced options.

Could be a chance to do something clever.

A 2 year loan with a 100m buyout clause at the end might make sense.

A €100M buyout clause would be madness. Last year Barcelona paid Dortmund €105M and gave the player a 5 year contract. For accounting purposes the cost is written off over the duration of his contract: 105 / 5 = 21. So his value depreciates by €21M a season, at present its value is €84M.

In 2014, Real Madrid paid Monaco €90M for James Rodriguez and gave him a 6 year contract. In 2017, Bayern Munich took him on a 2 year loan deal (€6.5M per year fee) with the option to buy for €32M. Rodriguez was a €45M asset on Real's books when he went on loan. If Bayern exercise their option to sign him that is exactly what they will have paid for the player in addition to paying his wages during the loan period. At the end of the loan Rodriguez will be a €15M asset but Bayern will pay them more than twice that.

€6.5M + €6.5M + €32M = €45M

If a club were to take Ousame Dembele on a 2 year loan and pay his wages for the duration of the loan then the deal would need to be structured similar to that of the Rodriguez loan, e.g. a €9M a year loan fee with the option to buy for €66M would make sense to both parties.

€9M + €9M + €66M = €84M

In 2020, Barcelona would receive €66M for an asset valued at €42M. That would make sense to the money men at the club, but probably not to the Barcelona hierarchy.

elbyrneo

Talisman wrote: »

A €100M buyout clause would be madness. Last year Barcelona paid Dortmund €105M and gave the player a 5 year contract. For accounting purposes the cost is written off over the duration of his contract: 105 / 5 = 21. So his value depreciates by €21M a season, at present its value is €84M.

In 2014, Real Madrid paid Monaco €90M for James Rodriguez and gave him a 6 year contract. In 2017, Bayern Munich took him on a 2 year loan deal (€6.5M per year fee) with the option to buy for €32M. Rodriguez was a €45M asset on Real's books when he went on loan. If Bayern exercise their option to sign him that is exactly what they will have paid for the player in addition to paying his wages during the loan period. At the end of the loan Rodriguez will be a €15M asset but Bayern will pay them more than twice that.

€6.5M + €6.5M + €32M = €45M

If a club were to take Ousame Dembele on a 2 year loan and pay his wages for the duration of the loan then the deal would need to be structured similar to that of the Rodriguez loan, e.g. a €9M a year loan fee with the option to buy for €66M would make sense to both parties.

€9M + €9M + €66M = €84M

In 2020, Barcelona would receive €66M for an asset valued at €42M. That would make sense to the money men at the club, but probably not to the Barcelona hierarchy.

Makes it sound like he's a car lol.

He's only 21. If anything he could appreciate in value as talent progresses and transfer market itself continues to inflate - he could be worth more in 2020 no?

~Rebel~

elbyrneo wrote: »

Makes it sound like he's a car lol.

He's only 21. If anything he could appreciate in value as talent progresses and transfer market itself continues to inflate - he could be worth more in 2020 no?

This is where it comes down to their judgement of the player. If they thought he was going to improve and flourish and grow in value, they wouldn't be willing to offload him, and wouldn't have moved for Malcom to fit in ahead of him in the pecking order.

All of this is under the assumption that they don't rate him as highly as they did a year ago and want to cut their losses.

ballyargus

ERG89 wrote: »

A footballer who never in his career played a league game much less scored??
Don't see the correlation at all. He still has nearly a 1 in 2 record for us.
It's pretty obvious his career has went a different trajectory with injuries reducing his pace, belief in himself & has seemed incapable to fully adjust to Klopp's style for some time even when he was fit.

More the litany of injuries, which can seem suspect at times

RoboKlopp

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Harry, pointed out out already but you missed the biggest drain on cash.

Read somewhere recently that we have a roughly £200m per year salary bill.

Surely we still have the expansion to pay for too, some of it anyway?

Turtyturd

Turtyturd wrote: »

The ‘1 in 2’ statistic is back, now with added ‘almost’.
Ignoring the Suarez days he’s almost 1 in 3.............

Bobbyesque in that dept so ............can we ignore the Salah days for Sturridge too. that knocks out last season

5starpool

Ignoring the Suarez days, Suarez has never played a game of football. Sham of a man calling himself a footballer.

murpho999

Augeo wrote: »

Surely we still have the expansion to pay for too, some of it anyway?

That's most likely mortgaged and budgeted for over a long period of time. No problems there.

Talisman

elbyrneo wrote: »

Makes it sound like he's a car lol.

He's only 21. If anything he could appreciate in value as talent progresses and transfer market itself continues to inflate - he could be worth more in 2020 no?

The contract is just a depreciating asset on a spreadsheet - much like a car.

If he isn't getting playing time at Barcelona then nobody is going to pay more than he is worth. Liverpool have experienced that issue with Lazar Markovic, last season his book value was €10M and Liverpool were looking for €15-20M. Unsurprisingly there were no takers at that price, his contract expires in 2019 so there is some hope that he will leave this summer.

If Barcelona want to cover themselves they could negotiate a buy back price so that if Dembele develops into a €100M+ player they could buy him relatively cheaply and sell him to a third party if they chose to. Much like how Real exercised the option to buy Morata back from Juventus for £27M (€30M) and sold him to Chelsea for £58M. I would imagine that negotiating such a deal with Liverpool would be quite tough though.

Potential Underachiever

If we ignore all the goals Sturridge scored then he's never even scored a goal, what a waster.

It seems to annoy some folk that Klopp is keeping Daniel around this season. Folk seem angry at the keyboards, bringing out various stats to undermine Klopp's decision.........strange carry on for "fans"

ERG89

Turtyturd wrote:

The ‘1 in 2’ statistic is back, now with added ‘almost’.

63 in 133, I'd say that's almost. Far better record than Origi, Ings and Solanke. Solanke will have to play a another 1600 games to get to that many goals at his current rate.
Sturridge's record is better than Firmino too but I'm not going to say Roberto is living off last season where he scored more than the previous 2 seasons combined.

yourdeadwright

Augeo wrote: »

It seems to annoy some folk that Klopp is keeping Daniel around this season. Folk seem angry at the keyboards, bringing out various stats to undermine Klopp's decision.........strange carry on for "fans"

I think its people are worried that when Bobby needs a break or gets injured,  The likely hood of Studg being available are slim ,
This will be his 5th season since the last one we seen him play often and well, Think about that for a minute 4 season have past of hoping he rediscovers his old self,

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think its people are worried that when Bobby needs a break or gets injured,  The likely hood of Studg being available are slim ,
This will be his 5th season since the last one we seen him play often and well, Think about that for a minute 4 season have past of hoping he rediscovers his old self,

I'd be worried about Sturridge's fitness myself but I wouldn't be trying to discredit his past achievements in front of goal or credit Suarez for them

We have to trust Klopp's judgement on this, as we do with all squad matters

5starpool

I think part of the problem with Sturridge over the last couple of years was that his attitude was wrong when he played, possibly due to not feeling like he was getting enough games, not feeling trusted, or maybe it was just that he wasn't suited to the style rather than just an attitude thing.

He is making the right noises now, but how long that lasts is a different matter. I hope he can play an effective part this season, whether as rotation or in case of injury, but I have my doubts. As said though, Klopp deserves our full trust in this regard anyhow, so if Sturridge plays 20 games and contributes very little it'll be on Klopp mostly. Hopefully we'll be debating other things throughout the season though other than Sturridge.

yourdeadwright

Augeo wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think its people are worried that when Bobby needs a break or gets injured,  The likely hood of Studg being available are slim ,
This will be his 5th season since the last one we seen him play often and well, Think about that for a minute 4 season have past of hoping he rediscovers his old self,

I'd be worried about Sturridge's fitness myself but I wouldn't be trying to discredit his past achievements in front of goal or credit Suarez for them

We have to trust Klopp's judgement on this, as we do with all squad matters

If we went and signed a player who hasn't preformed in the last 4 season would you be happy , " oh its ok he was good 5 years ago so nothing to worry about "
Iv no idea how people can be happy to have Studge as our back up striker, but then again in think Jürgen will use Mo or Sadio as a 9 if Bobby gets hurt, Studge will be cup games and injury crisis that's it

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If we went and signed a player who hasn't preformed in the last 4 season would you be happy , " oh its ok he was good 5 years ago so nothing to worry about "
Iv no idea how people can be happy to have Studge as our back up striker, but then again in think Jürgen will use Mo or Sadio as a 9 if Bobby gets hurt, Studge will be cup games and injury crisis that's it

Well you have mentioned further mitigation there

& also


did you miss the bit where I said

Augeo wrote: »

I'd be worried about Sturridge's fitness myself..........

Sturridge seems to be playing in a different role than striker in preseason. Perhaps Klopp plans to use him in games where we aren't going 4 3 3 .
Who knows what the plan is, in Klopp we trust etc.

yourdeadwright

In klopp we trust in Sturridge I don't  
The reason he's there is we can't get rid of him and possible he won't leave as its his last season and has more freedom to go where he wants next year on a free,
We probably can't afford another striker so we will keep him around for his last year and hope for the best,

Agent Coulson

If a club came in tomorrow and offered £20m for England's most natural goalscorer the club would snap their hand off for it and Sturridge would be gone.



If clubs are willing to pay that for Ings and Origi you would have to ask why aren't they willing to offer that for England's most natural goalscorer with a stunning 1 in 2 record?

yourdeadwright

Agent Coulson wrote: »

If a club came in tomorrow and offered £20m for England's most natural goalscorer the club would snap their hand off for it and Sturridge would be gone.



If clubs are willing to pay that for Ings and Origi you would have to ask why aren't they willing to offer that for England's most natural goalscorer?

Because he is past it 5 years , You seem to forget in January we decided to loan out England's most natural goal scorer and keep Ings and Solanki who hadn't scored a goal at the time , because our back room staff could see he can't run and is this generation Darren Anderton ,

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

In klopp we trust in Sturridge I don't  
The reason he's there is we can't get rid of him and possible he won't leave as its his last season and has more freedom to go where he wants next year on a free,
We probably can't afford another striker so we will keep him around for his last year and hope for the best,

He's on £120k/week.
If the club wanted to they can pay him off and release him now
Sturridge isn't financially preventing any striker purchases.
If we can't afford another striker it's nothing to do with Sturridge's wages. You wouldn't need to be a business analyst to figure that out surely.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Because he is past it 5 years , You seem to forget in January we decided to loan out England's most natural goal scorer and keep Ings and Solanki who hadn't scored a goal at the time , because our back room staff could see he can't run and is this generation Darren Anderton ,

I'd think it was more the club allowed him to leave as he was hoping to get a place in the WC squad

54and56

Talisman wrote: »

A €100M buyout clause would be madness. Last year Barcelona paid Dortmund €105M and gave the player a 5 year contract. For accounting purposes the cost is written off over the duration of his contract: 105 / 5 = 21. So his value depreciates by €21M a season, at present its value is €84M.

In 2014, Real Madrid paid Monaco €90M for James Rodriguez and gave him a 6 year contract. In 2017, Bayern Munich took him on a 2 year loan deal (€6.5M per year fee) with the option to buy for €32M. Rodriguez was a €45M asset on Real's books when he went on loan. If Bayern exercise their option to sign him that is exactly what they will have paid for the player in addition to paying his wages during the loan period. At the end of the loan Rodriguez will be a €15M asset but Bayern will pay them more than twice that.

€6.5M + €6.5M + €32M = €45M

If a club were to take Ousame Dembele on a 2 year loan and pay his wages for the duration of the loan then the deal would need to be structured similar to that of the Rodriguez loan, e.g. a €9M a year loan fee with the option to buy for €66M would make sense to both parties.

€9M + €9M + €66M = €84M

In 2020, Barcelona would receive €66M for an asset valued at €42M. That would make sense to the money men at the club, but probably not to the Barcelona hierarchy.

You are conflating book value and market value. Barca can amortise (write off) the cost of acquiring the player over the duration of his contract ONLY if the estimated value of the asset (player) at the end of that contract would be €0 but the value they hold for the asset on their Balance Sheet cannot ignore the market value of the asset hence they must undertake what's called an impairment test which essentially asks the question "does the amortised value of this asset on our Balance Sheet reflect it's disposal/market value?" and if the answer is "No" then the proposed amortisation adjustment must be amended so the value of assets recorded on the Balance Sheet doesn't under (or over) state their true value.

MarkY91

Turtyturd wrote: »

The ‘1 in 2’ statistic is back, now with added ‘almost’.

Ignoring the Suarez days he’s almost 1 in 3, and probably most relevant, in his last two seasons he’s 1 in 7.

Should we also ignore the Salah days for mane and firmino too?

Boom_Bap

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Because he is past it 5 years , You seem to forget in January we decided to loan out England's most natural goal scorer and keep Ings and Solanki who hadn't scored a goal at the time , because our back room staff could see he can't run and is this generation Darren Anderton ,

But you realise that can change. The extended break may have given Sturridge's body the rest it needed. Klopp has said he's in every training session now which has never been the case previously.

yourdeadwright

Boom_Bap wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Because he is past it 5 years , You seem to forget in January we decided to loan out England's most natural goal scorer and keep Ings and Solanki who hadn't scored a goal at the time , because our back room staff could see he can't run and is this generation Darren Anderton ,

But you realise that can change. The extended break may have given Sturridge's body the rest it needed. Klopp has said he's in every training session now which has never been the case previously.

Sturridge could have the same season over and over again till he's 32 and fans every summer will say " keep him looks like old Sturridge is back"
People need to let go .

yourdeadwright

Augeo wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

In klopp we trust in Sturridge I don't  
The reason he's there is we can't get rid of him and possible he won't leave as its his last season and has more freedom to go where he wants next year on a free,
We probably can't afford another striker so we will keep him around for his last year and hope for the best,

He's on £120k/week.
If the club wanted to they can pay him off and release him now
Sturridge isn't financially preventing any striker purchases.
If we can't afford another striker it's nothing to do with Sturridge's wages. You wouldn't need to be a business analyst to figure that out surely.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Because he is past it 5 years , You seem to forget in January we decided to loan out England's most natural goal scorer and keep Ings and Solanki who hadn't scored a goal at the time , because our back room staff could see he can't run and is this generation Darren Anderton ,

I'd think it was more the club allowed him to leave as he was hoping to get a place in the WC squad

When's the last time the club paid someone off to leave who wasn't a manger,  
Markovic is still knocking around for god sake,
Its not Sturridge preventing a new striker its the rest of the money weve spent this summer , He's only one year left so he'll be kept till next summer and then let go on his way ,

Boom_Bap

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Sturridge could have the same season over and over again till he's 32 and fans every summer will say " keep him looks like old Sturridge is back"
People need to let go .

I'm not expecting him to be a starter, but a fit option of Sturridge from the bench could be extremely beneficial. Compared to Ings or Solanke or Origi who essentially couldn't buy a goal, I'd have more faith in Sturridge off the bench.

noodler

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

If we ignore all the goals Sturridge scored then he's never even scored a goal, what a waster.

God, it makes perfect sense to check what he's done more recently.