Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2018

Benimar

liam7831 wrote: »

I think they are all better than Karius in fairness

I think you seriously over estimate the standard of goalkeeping in the PL to be honest!

Karius needs to be replaced, but he is absolutely no worse than the majority of goalkeepers in the league.

Outside of DeGea and Courtois there aren’t any stand out keepers in England.

TitianGerm

Bowlardo wrote: »

I demand we spend 60 million plus on said keeper.

Well we better spend the 60m on a keeper... Don't want you throwing your toys around if we don't :pac:

Turtyturd

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Am I missing something???? Forster is sh1te, he's worse than karius.

Tbf he’s better than him in the same way Rashford is better than Firmino.

Moist Bread

Turtyturd wrote: »

Tbf he’s better than him in the same way Rashford is better than Firmino.

How do you mean?

Riesen_Meal

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I wonder id Klopp off on holiday or is he still around Liverpool at the moment.


If he is a round it would be a nice time to accidentally bump into Alisson at Anfield and suss things out with a nice friendly chat and hug.

I'm sure Jurgen is already in Ibiza or Formentera with the missus, deservedly so also...

mosstin

Moist Bread wrote: »

How do you mean?

So, you think that Gini and Bobby aren't good enough for Liverpool.



And yet you think that Fraser fucking Forster is.



You're on the wind up, and you're not very good at it.

Moist Bread

mosstin wrote: »

So, you think that Gini and Bobby aren't good enough for Liverpool.



And yet you think that Fraser fucking Forster is.



You're on the wind up, and you're not very good at it.

I think that Forster is better than what we have now.

Look, can you leave out the mud slinging please. I am not on the wind up, so no, I'm not very good at it, seeing as it's not something I want to do.

mosstin

Moist Bread wrote: »

I think that Forster is better than what we have now.

Look, can you leave out the mud slinging please. I am not on the wind up, so no, I'm not very good at it, seeing as it's not something I want to do.

You're sensitive too.



I've seen your posts over the past few days and you're absolutely on the wind up. I'm just telling you what I see.

Moist Bread

mosstin wrote: »

You're sensitive too.



I've seen your posts over the past few days and you're absolutely on the wind up. I'm just telling you what I see.

Well, I could level the same at your door. You are having a go at me for nothing.

I feel like you are trying to make an issue out of thin air. Can we just move on and stop derailing the thread?

Talisman

corwill wrote: »

He's gone a long way back from his first season or so at Southampton, when he seemed very promising.

He hasn't been the same keeper since he returned from injury. He has done well to come back, but the rigours of the Premier League might be too much for him. The same injury finished Craig Gordon's career at Sunderland and the only club that was willing to take a risk on him afterwards was Celtic.

Moist Bread

I just don't understand what's so annoying about saying Fraser Forster is better than Karius?

I believe that it's true. Am I a bad person for thinking this or something?

.red.

People saying that the EPL has 2 good keepers are forgetting about Ederson who, imo would be the ideal keeper for Liverpool.
Obviously he's not a viable target for us but I'd have him over Oblak and Allison.
Courtois isn't viable either as he wants to go back to Madrid as his family are there.

mosstin

Moist Bread wrote: »

I just don't understand what's so annoying about saying Fraser Forster is better than Karius?

I believe that it's true. Am I a bad person for thinking this or something?

You're arguing with yourself now.

Neither Karius or mignolet are the stand out 4th best GK in the PL.... on their day either or might be but over the course of a season they'll both reach incredible lows in performance .... neither are acceptable long term for LFC imo.

And given karius's apparent improvement coincided with both Robertson & Virgil featuring in the back 4 consistently & to great effect I'd struggle to allocate how much of the seeming improvement in Karius was actually down to him.

Talisman

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I really Like Alisson and would have no problem with the club breaking the world record fee for a keeper to get him same goes for Olbak.


Or we could go for Hart, Butland, Forster, Pope proven PL players.

Nick Pope was second to De Gea for the number of saves per goal conceded in the Premier League.

Statistically, Hart and Forster were between Mignolet and Karius's performance levels this season. Neither should seriously be considered as improvements.

Benimar

.red. wrote: »

People saying that the EPL has 2 good keepers are forgetting about Ederson who, imo would be the ideal keeper for Liverpool.
Obviously he's not a viable target for us but I'd have him over Oblak and Allison.
Courtois isn't viable either as he wants to go back to Madrid as his family are there.

Fair point about Ederson. Had totally forgotten about him.

Muahahaha

What is Manuel Neuers situation at Munich? He has been injured all season but just getting back to fitness now for the WC, not sure will he start though? He has played in the Bundesliga for almost 15 years now and with another new manager arriving to Munich shortly you would wonder would he now consider a move to the Prem? If we are gonna spend big on a keeper I would rather try for Neuer first over Oblak or Allison. I would imagine any of the three of them would cost 60-70 mill but with Neuer you are not buying the next potential big thing, youd be buying someone who has done it all and has captained both Germany & Munich to a wad of silverware. There is a lot to be said for his experience and Neuer in goal in the Prem would hit the ground running and be instantly up there with DDG imo.

chicorytip

He's a Brazilian goalkeeper who, generally speaking, tend not to be the most capable of custodians. He has a girl's name. Nick Pope would be a better option.

Big transfer fee, big wages and he's well into his 30s. I can't see it happening TBH.

Iused2likebusts

chicorytip wrote: »

He's a Brazilian goalkeeper who, generally speaking, tend not to be the most capable of custodians. He has a girl's name. Nick Pope would be a better option.

Heaton is a better goalkeeper than nick pope and if he didn't get injured I reckon he would be England's no 1 this summer. We would be crazy to take a chance on Pope even though he had a great season. His distribution particularly his kicking is really poor which would only be emphasised even more playing with Liverpool.

Muahahaha

Augeo wrote: »

Big transfer fee, big wages and he's well into his 30s. I can't see it happening TBH.

At 32 he is still in his prime as a keeper. Whoever we get is going to be a big fee and wages. Perhaps Neuer is a homebird who wont ever leave Germany but if he could be got Id be far happier with him than Allison or Oblak. I just think that he would be a guaranteed top keeper in the Prem from day one which makes him much less of a risk than the other candidates IMO. The downside might be his age but I would overlook that in the context of how many points a world class keeper is worth over the course of a season in the EPL.

Potential Underachiever

No thanks to Forster!

He was mentioned a couple of years ago as a potential top keeper but has regressed badly and as someone pointed out was actually dropped last season, so if he can't hold a place at Southampton he sure isn't the answer to our problems. His distribution is pretty poor also never mind the clangers he has been throwing in!

Talisman

Muahahaha wrote: »

What is Manuel Neuers situation at Munich?

Neuer needs to have his foot replaced. He has been suffering from metatarsal injuries/ailments for the past two years - never completely heals itself. The latest is a bone marrow edema.

HandsomeBob

I trust Klopp either way re Oblak or Allison. Seen some rag link us with a Karius clone that apparently plays for Barca that would be a cheap option. **** that. Let him go and get what he wants regardless of price....hasn't worked out too badly in the past.

chicorytip

Iused2likebusts wrote:

Heaton is a better goalkeeper than nick pope and if he didn't get injured I reckon he would be England's no 1 this summer. We would be crazy to take a chance on Pope even though he had a great season. His distribution particularly his kicking is really poor which would only be emphasised even more playing with Liverpool.

I think shot stopping ability is of greater importance. A goalkeeper's primary duty is to netmind, not to act as an additional outfield player. Ederson is a pretty impressive ball player but much less impressive as a netminder.

LiamoSail

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

No thanks to Forster!

He was mentioned a couple of years ago as a potential top keeper but has regressed badly and as someone pointed out was actually dropped last season, so if he can't hold a place at Southampton he sure isn't the answer to our problems. His distribution is pretty poor also never mind the clangers he has been throwing in!

He's been a different keeper since the injury. The FF of 2014 was a far better keeper than the FF last season

Iused2likebusts

chicorytip wrote: »

I think shot stopping ability is of greater importance. A goalkeeper's primary duty is to netmind, not to act as an additional outfield player. Ederson is a pretty impressive ball player but much less impressive as a netminder.

I 100% agree with you that the main thing is keeping the ball out of the net and people have got overly caught up with what a keeper is like on the ball. I was just pointing out that Pope is poor at that side of the game . I would be more comfortable with either heaton or pope in goal for us over the two we have but I think we need a bigger upgrade then heaton/pope etc to move to the next level. A top class keeper and back up for the front 3 and I think we are a serious side.

LiamoSail

What could Liverpool offer Neuer that other likely interested clubs couldn't?

Presumably Real, Juve, PSG would all be interested were he available.

LiamoSail

chicorytip wrote: »

I think shot stopping ability is of greater importance. A goalkeeper's primary duty is to netmind, not to act as an additional outfield player. Ederson is a pretty impressive ball player but much less impressive as a netminder.

It's a false economy in a sense. Shay Given was an excellent shot stopper, but often the reason he faced so many shots was because of shortfalls in other areas of his game. A lesser shot stopper may have conceded less.

There was an article in the Economist about GK values in relation to outfield players. They calculated the additional points gained as a result of having a superior GK and found that actually relative to outfield players, GKs are correctly valued. Hence it may be of more value to have a lesser shot stopper who contributes to the play than a better shot stopper who doesn't

Edit: https://www.economist.com/game-theory/2018/02/09/why-footballs-goalkeepers-are-cheap-and-unheralded

That's the article. The statistics apparently suggest that for a top team, having a Buffon, Neuer or DDG compared to a league average keeper means they concede between 4 and 6 less goals per season. Not much, unless of course two of those happen to be CL final goals

Pay whatever it takes to get a top class keeper in.

Long overdue.

Damien360

LiamoSail wrote: »

chicorytip wrote: »

I think shot stopping ability is of greater importance. A goalkeeper's primary duty is to netmind, not to act as an additional outfield player. Ederson is a pretty impressive ball player but much less impressive as a netminder.

It's a false economy in a sense. Shay Given was an excellent shot stopper, but often the reason he faced so many shots was because of shortfalls in other areas of his game. A lesser shot stopper may have conceded less.

There was an article in the Economist about GK values in relation to outfield players. They calculated the additional points gained as a result of having a superior GK and found that actually relative to outfield players, GKs are correctly valued. Hence it may be of more value to have a lesser shot stopper who contributes to the play than a better shot stopper who doesn't

Edit: https://www.economist.com/game-theory/2018/02/09/why-footballs-goalkeepers-are-cheap-and-unheralded

That's the article. The statistics apparently suggest that for a top team, having a Buffon, Neuer or DDG compared to a league average keeper means they concede between 4 and 6 less goals per season. Not much, unless of course two of those happen to be CL final goals

Interesting stuff but I would have put it higher value than 4 to 6 goals. How many points has DeGea been worth to yourselves this season ? From memory and I have to go on match of the day highlights, he must be worth 10 points (pie in the sky figures from me). I can think of a few wins that realistically should have been draws. Stunning keeper that all others should be measured against. With current values, that puts him in good midfielder values of £80m. Someone like that is worth every penny.

charolais0153

If courtois goes to real. What about keylor navas?

LiamoSail

Damien360 wrote: »

Interesting stuff but I would have put it higher value than 4 to 6 goals. How many points has DeGea been worth to yourselves this season ? From memory and I have to go on match of the day highlights, he must be worth 10 points (pie in the sky figures from me). I can think of a few wins that realistically should have been draws. Stunning keeper that all others should be measured against. With current values, that puts him in good midfielder values of £80m. Someone like that is worth every penny.

I'm no a Utd fan, so can't really say. I agree though that I would have expected a top keeper to be worth more.

Four to six goals is impossible to quantify with regard to points. It could be the difference between six draws and six wins (12pts), or six 2 goal wins and six 3 goals wins (0 points). The likelihood is somewhere inbetween

It would be interesting to analysis the season gone and look at results had all clangers from Mig/Karius been omitted. League only, I'm not sure how many points more would have been gained

MD1990

charolais0153 wrote: »

If courtois goes to real. What about keylor navas?

Has made some bad errors at Madrid.

But a very good keeper.

Benimar

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm no a Utd fan, so can't really say. I agree though that I would have expected a top keeper to be worth more.

Four to six goals is impossible to quantify with regard to points. It could be the difference between six draws and six wins (12pts), or six 2 goal wins and six 3 goals wins (0 points). The likelihood is somewhere inbetween

It would be interesting to analysis the season gone and look at results had all clangers from Mig/Karius been omitted. League only, I'm not sure how many points more would have been gained

It’s not just clangers though.

It can also be about saving the one that isn’t expected. Think of Roma’s 1st goal at Anfield. It’s never going to go down as a Karius error, but it’s the sort of shot you could see someone like DeGea saving.

Agent Coulson

We didn’t beat around the bush Breaking the world record transfer fee for a Center Back or paying huge money the two midfield positions in Fab and Keita or the front three or buying Ox and Gini as squad players.


I really don’t see the problem in breaking the world record fee for the right keeper either.


No point in strengthening everywhere except the goalkeeper.

charolais0153

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We didn’t beat around the bush Breaking the world record transfer fee for a Center Back or paying huge money the two midfield positions in Fab and Keita or the front three or buying Ox and Gini as squad players.


I really don’t see the problem in breaking the world record fee for the right keeper either.


No point in strengthening everywhere except the goalkeeper.

30- 40 million is small cash nowadays.
Even arsenal are paying upwards of 50 million for players

LiamoSail

Benimar wrote: »

It’s not just clangers though.

It can also be about saving the one that isn’t expected. Think of Roma’s 1st goal at Anfield. It’s never going to go down as a Karius error, but it’s the sort of shot you could see someone like DeGea saving.

Good example actually, as even if it had been saved it wouldn't have effected the outcome of the game, hence it could be argued that in that instance, a better keeper wouldn't have been worth any more points (I know it was a cup game).

But expand my previous point to include anything DDG would have saved that Karius/Mig didn't. How many points better off would we have been? I doubt it'd be significant

Obviously no one has the answer to hand, and of course it opens up the "X would have played differently had they not scored at that point" etc arguments

LiamoSail

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We didn’t beat around the bush Breaking the world record transfer fee for a Center Back or paying huge money the two midfield positions in Fab and Keita or the front three or buying Ox and Gini as squad players.


I really don’t see the problem in breaking the world record fee for the right keeper either.


No point in strengthening everywhere except the goalkeeper.

We all know FSG are into their stats. Maybe they've determined, as the Economist did, that a world class GK isn't worth the money?

theoneeyedman

LiamoSail wrote: »

He's been a different keeper since the injury. The FF of 2014 was a far better keeper than the FF last season

The problem with this theory is that it's not 2014, it's 2018. The Forster of 2018 is a big slow lump, who was dropped by the fourth worse team in the EPL, so 'no thank you'. He is one of the few starting goalies last season who is not better than Karius. Most would be a slight upgrade at least, but given the EPL transfer premium, I'd be shopping elsewhere, there is nobody that is far enough better than karius (apart from the top men who are unattainable) that would be worth the money.

LiamoSail

theoneeyedman wrote: »

The problem with this theory is that it's not 2014, it's 2018. The Forster of 2018 is a big slow lump, who was dropped by the fourth worse team in the EPL, so 'no thank you'. He is one of the few starting goalies last season who is not better than Karius. Most would be a slight upgrade at least, but given the EPL transfer premium, I'd be shopping elsewhere, there is nobody that is far enough better than karius (apart from the top men who are unattainable) that would be worth the money.

I think you're reading something that's not there. I wouldn't advocate signing FF. In 2014 yes, but not today

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We didn’t beat around the bush Breaking the world record transfer fee for a Center Back or paying huge money the two midfield positions in Fab and Keita or the front three or buying Ox and Gini as squad players.


I really don’t see the problem in breaking the world record fee for the right keeper either.


No point in strengthening everywhere except the goalkeeper.

Yep.

A strong keeper and we'd have a strong spine for the first time since Rafa.

It needs to happen asap.

Iused2likebusts

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm no a Utd fan, so can't really say. I agree though that I would have expected a top keeper to be worth more.

Four to six goals is impossible to quantify with regard to points. It could be the difference between six draws and six wins (12pts), or six 2 goal wins and six 3 goals wins (0 points). The likelihood is somewhere inbetween

It would be interesting to analysis the season gone and look at results had all clangers from Mig/Karius been omitted. League only, I'm not sure how many points more would have been gained

Watford 1st game, Chelsea at home and arsenal away are 3 draws that all should have been wins with a proper keeper in goal and that's just off the top of my head. Mignolet was shocking at leicester away but we got the win. He was also culpable at spurs but probably would have lost that anyway.As benimar stated aswell its not just errors there are good goals that are scored against you that aren't goalkeeper errors but the really good goalkeepers may have saved them.

MD1990

Forster relies far too much on his frame.

Always been uncoordinated when I saw him. Nowhere near good enough for us. Was dropped for Southampton. Unsure why he is being discussed.

Need to look outside the PL even if Allison doesn't join.

Rui Patricio linked to Wolves. He would be a good option.

Agent Coulson

BVB have put Nuri up for sale I wonder would Klopp bring him in as a squad player.

Irishmale0399

Agent Coulson wrote: »

BVB have put Nuri up for sale I wonder would Klopp bring him in as a squad player.

No BVB first team player is for sale (unless they have asked to leave) until Favre says so and he has said he wants to see what he has first....;);)


As for Klopp moving for him....doubt it. His legs are gone. Never really recovered from the knee injury at Madrid.

Dcully

Rumours starting to appear on twitter about fekir and his agent will be in liverpool tomorrow.Hope it's true.

Harry Palmr

https://twitter.com/RomainCG75/status/1003019043903819776

This fella is well connected journo so hopefully it's bisto

Fekir and his agent Jean-Pierre # Bernès should be this Sunday 03/06/2018 at #Liverpool to settle the last details of the transfer of the French international. If all goes well, medical visit in the wake!

GotTheTshirt

Lucas wins Lazio player of the season, delighted for him!

Harry Palmr

GotTheTshirt wrote: »

Lucas wins Lazio player of the season, delighted for him!

That poll was hijacked by Liverpool fans.