Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2018

Agent Coulson

Keita and Sturridge return to full training today after missing the last few with niggles.

Gomez, Lallana & Grujic having tailored training sessions.

The keepers are doing extra work after the team training session with John Achterberg. If Allison turns out to be not great will it be deemed to be John's fault :pac:

Harry Palmr

No one interested in buying Mig is pretty damning. Might as well keep him rather than loan.

Mig is on £80k/week at least iirc and has 4 years left on his recent enough deal. He'll be tough to get off the books unless LFC are willing to sell him for a very small fee.

Agent Coulson

It does say a lot that no club will spend £10/12m on Mignolet a proven midtable PL keeper.

J Mysterio

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Ok

Thanks for the second 'ok' in as many pages. You dont need to add the comment if you dont have a developed opinion. Even if you are just showing your disdain, its not worth much presented like that and just comes across really shıt.

The poster has made some valid points. Either address them or keep schtum.

Agent Coulson

J Mysterio wrote: »

Thanks for the second 'ok' in as many pages. You dont need to add the comment if you dont have a developed opinion. Even if you are just showing your disdain, its not worth much presented like that and just comes across really shıt.

The poster has made some valid points. Either address them or keep schtum.

Ok

yourdeadwright

8-10 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Dom played for at of our rivals you wouldn't be worried about him at all turning into a top 4 striker,
Need to take the rose tinted glasses off , he's been pretty awful since he joined us,
Think of it like this at his age Ngog had more goals for us,

A week ago you were saying he should get a loan to play every week because he's got a higher ceiling than Origi....

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Makes sense to sell Origi,
He will fetch the most money , isn't as good as Studge and Solanke has possible a higher ceiling than him,
I really think Solanke needs a loan move just to play every week,

Why would you say he needs a loan deal if you're saying it's clear he will never make it here?

I'm not arguing that he's not been poor for us to date, I'm just stating that I don't think it's clear that he's not going to make it, as you say we don't know his ceiling.

I caught up with the pre-season games and he just hasn't improved at all,

~Rebel~

Knex. wrote: »

It's way too early to tell.

Lewandowski was dog crap for Dortmund his first year there. Missed everything and he was starting every game and came from Poland where he was playing every game there too.

Solanke needs minutes, but Klopp seemingly wants him around the squad. He turns 21 in September, so ideally this is the year he'd be on loan, but there's always next year, or even January, if he doesn't kick on and make an impact between now and then.

I wouldn't be completely writing him off yet. Bigger strikers who don't rely on pace often take a while to adjust to the top level.

True... there's loads of examples of physically bigger players who took a bit of time to kick on. Lewandowski, Drogba, Llorente, Mandzukic. All in their mid 20's when they really started scoring goals.

I'd guess it takes a little while to adjust for some players who relied too heavily on their size at youth level or lower leagues? They obviously all had great finishing to put away their chances regard;ess, but took a few years to do the same with that bit more pressure on at a higher level?

Most of the strikers that burst onto the scene young are fast guys, while it seems some of the bigger, less mobile guys take a bit longer. Wouldn't write off Solanke by any means just yet. A loan move to the championship seems the best thing I think.

~Rebel~

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I caught up with the pre-season games and he just hasn't improved at all,

Judging off preseason is fairly pointless, just as it was pointless all the people saying he should be starting ahead of Origi based on last seasons preseason when he was banging in the goals. Had he had exactly the same preseason this year as last, would you be saying he was coming along nicely?

The only judgement thats worthwhile for a young player is against proper opposition, in a properly competitive game, with competitive teammates, over a decent sample size of a few years. That's just the way it is. Maybe he'll never make it, maybe he'll be great, but at 20 you just don't know. And if they club haven't already tossed him aside (having seen whatever he does in training), it's probably for a reason.

gimli2112

If y'er old enough to remember Fowler or Owen at 18-19 you'd be ready to fire Solanke out the door.
It's not fair to be comparing to other players but there is a feeling if a striker is really special you would know it by now.

Sofa Spud

Augeo wrote: »

Mig is on £80k/week at least iirc and has 4 years left on his recent enough deal. He'll be tough to get off the books unless LFC are willing to sell him for a very small fee.

He's actually on £60k and 3 yrs left but agree with your point. Apparently the Turks only wanted him on loan with an option to buy (Redmen reported it based on, iirc, Turkish press). Considering the drop in experience with the two young lads and Karius needing to rebuild after all that has passed, it makes sense to keep him as the best option for no.2 unless the club are willing to bring in another keeper as back up for Big Al.

yourdeadwright

gimli2112 wrote: »

If y'er old enough to remember Fowler or Owen at 18-19 you'd be ready to fire Solanke out the door.
It's not fair to be comparing to other players but there is a feeling if a striker is really special you would know it by now.

Well that's it isn't it people say he could come good,
I don't think he show anything of yet and how many players have show nothing by 20 and gone on to make it,

redzerdrog

Sofa Spud wrote: »

He's actually on £60k and 3 yrs left but agree with your point. Apparently the Turks only wanted him on loan with an option to buy (Redmen reported it based on, iirc, Turkish press). Considering the drop in experience with the two young lads and Karius needing to rebuild after all that has passed, it makes sense to keep him as the best option for no.2 unless the club are willing to bring in another keeper as back up for Big Al.

I would rather anyone but Mignolet, It's time for him to move on. He is a very poor keeper

~Rebel~

gimli2112 wrote: »

If y'er old enough to remember Fowler or Owen at 18-19 you'd be ready to fire Solanke out the door.
It's not fair to be comparing to other players but there is a feeling if a striker is really special you would know it by now.

I mentioned it in the other post, but I think how you play underage is a huge indicator of how you'll adapt. Both Fowler and Owen (and most strikers that break onto the scene young) were quick footed smaller guys who were outsized by their opposition at every level of their careers, from U12 upwards. So there isn't a real change in dynamic when they move up through the ranks... they're always using quick thought and quick feet to beat players. For bigger lads like Solanke (and Lewandowski, Mandzukic, Llorente, Drogba etc) when they get to the top level, it's probably the first time in their career they're not as strong, or stronger, than their opposition, so it takes time to adapt.

Also he doesn't need to be 'special' to be good enough for us. Owen and Fowler are two of the best strikers to ever play in England.

yourdeadwright

~Rebel~ wrote: »

gimli2112 wrote: »

If y'er old enough to remember Fowler or Owen at 18-19 you'd be ready to fire Solanke out the door.
It's not fair to be comparing to other players but there is a feeling if a striker is really special you would know it by now.

I mentioned it in the other post, but I think how you play underage is a huge indicator of how you'll adapt. Both Fowler and Owen (and most strikers that break onto the scene young) were quick footed smaller guys who were outsized by their opposition at every level of their careers, from U12 upwards. So there isn't a real change in dynamic when they move up through the ranks... they're always using quick thought and quick feet to beat players. For bigger lads like Solanke (and Lewandowski, Mandzukic, Llorente, Drogba etc) when they get to the top level, it's probably the first time in their career they're not as strong, or stronger, than their opposition, so it takes time to adapt.

That's a fair assessment

yourdeadwright

I see its the first season ever as coach's for Jurgen ,Jose and Pep without there normal assistant ,
Be interested to see who is effected and who isn't

dogbert27

Augeo wrote: »

The keepers are doing extra work after the team training session with John Achterberg. If Allison turns out to be not great will it be deemed to be John's fault :pac:

If another keeper becomes sxxt at Liverpool after 6 years then yeah it is Achterberg's fault! Reina, Bogden, Jones, Mignolet, Karius......

dogbert27

dogbert27 wrote: »

If another keeper becomes sxxt at Liverpool after 6 years then yeah it is Achterberg's fault! Reina, Bogden, Jones, Mignolet, Karius......

Surely if he's responsible for the 5 you name becoming s*** then somoene at LFC shouldn't be giving him the opportunity to "work" with Allison?

Sofa Spud

redzerdrog wrote: »

I would rather anyone but Mignolet, It's time for him to move on. He is a very poor keeper

Yeah, agreed, but that's kinda the point - feel for Karius but it's clear now that he's not gonna bounce back anytime soon to a level we need, the youngsters can't be expected to step up, so there's not much we can do other than get in another keeper, and if they're not gonna do that, then let Mig be no.2 until they can get a better option.
My question would be what do they do now if Mig does move on? Karius and the kids are not an option for now, so if they were already at the stage of discussing Mig with other teams, do they have a plan to bring in another option, considering how preseason went for Karius?

dogbert27

Augeo wrote: »

Surely if he's responsible for the 5 you name becoming s*** then somoene at LFC shouldn't be giving him the opportunity to "work" with Allison?

He shouldn't be given the bloody opportunity!

As much as we need a world class goalkeeper we also need a top class goalkeeping coach!

dogbert27

dogbert27 wrote: »

He shouldn't be given the bloody opportunity!

............

I really don't think he is the problem. But if he is surely someone at LFC would come to the conclusion he is?

BullBlackNova

I mean, the thing, is were any of our goalkeepers actually good enough to begin with, though?

Reina was excellent early on for us but he had a minor enough decline before Achterberg came in.

Mignolet was a solid shot stopper playing in a defensive side, change of style exposed his flaws. Karius? One good season at Mainz but is that enough to determine that he is good and that his issue is coaching? Or was it just too much too quickly?

Bogdan and Jones... I feel that speaks for itself.

Thing is, our fans love to point the finger at the goalkeeping coach eventhough our keepers all had underlying issues, confidence issues, etc anyway. None of us have ever seen Achterberg in action, how can we possibly have this much insight into his work?!

He's worked as a coach at Liverpool since 2009 and we're saying that none of Benitez, Hodgson, Dalglish, Rodgers or Klopp saw fit to cut him loose? The way we talk, his deficiencies must be obvious; what are they missing?!

Either that or we just kept buying bad goalkeepers who didn't improve.

MD1990

Reina's biggest problem was he let himself go.

He put on weight which reduced his reactions etc.

He got himself back in shape at Napoli & was good for them.

ERG89

MD1990 wrote:

He got himself back in shape at Napoli & was good for them.

Selling him and buying Mignolet for the same amount is definitely one of the dumbest moves we inflicted on ourselves. Reina was the best goalie we had the last 20 years, whuch isn't saying much tbh.

klose

Bogdan and Jones, jaysis had them repressed at the back of my mind.

~Rebel~

ERG89 wrote: »

Selling him and buying Mignolet for the same amount is definitely one of the dumbest moves we inflicted on ourselves. Reina was the best goalie we had the last 20 years, whuch isn't saying much tbh.

You do have to remember the context though to be fair... Pepe had been actively trying to force a move to Barcelona for a while (under the assumption Valdes was about to leave), and being kind of a dick, so the club felt they had to act (and he was also coming off the back of a below average season by his standards). Pepe's move was scuppered by Valdes deciding to stay another season, but Pepe was said to have already privately agreed terms with Barca.

Mignolet as the choice of replacement wasn't a good one obviously, and there were plenty of doubts about it at the time, though i suppose that exists regardless who you look at. Funnily enough people were hugely split over him or Begovic, both of whom went on to be pretty much the same average level. Neither were good enough.

Hopefully Alisson can finally be the one that's a genuine cut above.

J Mysterio

klose wrote: »

Bogdan and Jones, jaysis had them repressed at the back of my mind.

Jones was a real low. That Man U match where you knew we had lost before kickoff and then Jones dives the wrong way for a shot.

redzerdrog

J Mysterio wrote: »

Jones was a real low. That Man U match where you knew we had lost before kickoff and then Jones dives the wrong way for a shot.

Shows how bad mignolet is/was when Jones nearly actually challenged him for the Jersey at one point

Agent Coulson

Renia mixing up a bloody beach ball with a football was the lowest point.


No concussion there.

Charlie19

Reina also had a howler on a Saturday afternoon against Everton.

That said he was still a solid goalie.

Sofa Spud

Any love for Ray Clemence?

Demosthenese

A good keeper can save you 9-12 points a season single handedly. We've not had that in such a long time. It's amazing that when you look back as far as the 90's we've very few keepers that are thought of more than just fondly. We've had some very able keepers no doubt but rarely one that stands out among his peers.

Lets hope that this money is as well spent as it was on Big Virg!

Instead of listening to Sky Sports and the lazy armchair brigade talking about our weakness at every opportunity this year - we'll hopefully be listening to many accolades about Allison.

Riesen_Meal

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Renia mixing up a bloody beach ball with a football was the lowest point.


No concussion there.

Oh god....

I was so angry watching that at the time...

*Shudders*

TitianGerm

Can't wait for Alisson to make a mistake and the armchair pundits to say he was a waste of money.

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

Can't wait for Alisson to make a mistake and the armchair pundits to say he was a waste of money.

I can definitely wait!!

TitianGerm

RoboKlopp wrote: »

I can definitely wait!!

He's going to make a mistake at some stage. Just because he makes one doesn't mean he'll be a poor signing.

Having him in goal will add a bit of confidence to the back four because they won't be worrying if they allow a shot there's a good chance of it going in.

jbt123

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Renia mixing up a bloody beach ball with a football was the lowest point.


No concussion there.

If the referee had known the basic rules of the game then the goal would have been disallowed.

Agent Coulson

Sofa Spud wrote: »

Any love for Ray Clemence?

Probably the best the club has had in living memory anyway.

.red.

ERG89 wrote: »

Selling him and buying Mignolet for the same amount is definitely one of the dumbest moves we inflicted on ourselves. Reina was the best goalie we had the last 20 years, whuch isn't saying much tbh.

Selling Arbeloa for £5m and replacing him with Glen Johnson for £17m has to be the dumbest move the club has made in the last 20 years. Nothing comes close.

ballyargus

.red. wrote: »

Selling Arbeloa for £5m and replacing him with Glen Johnson for £17m has to be the dumbest move the club has made in the last 20 years. Nothing comes close.

Does pulping Suarez into Balotelli and Rickie Lambert not come close?

Knex*

The players are doing Karaoke at the moment.

Not joking.

Rake of videos flying around, such as Shaqiri screeching out Three Little Birds. Alisson doing Don't Look Back In Anger, and then belting a song out on guitar afterwards. Keita had a song and dance too.

It's like an American rookie initiation or something.

Edit: here's Keita's https://streamable.com/8mjw0

~Rebel~

Knex. wrote: »

The players are all doing Karaoke at the moment.

Not joking.

Rake of videos flying around, such as Shaqiri screeching out Three Little Birds. Alisson doing Don't Look Back In Anger, and then belting a song out on guitar afterwards. Keita had a song and dance too.

It's like an American rookie initiation or something.

That fuckin' Maroon 5 ad has a lot to answer for!

Agent Coulson

Don’t new players joining the Irish squad have to do that since the Big Jack days.

Gbear

.red. wrote: »

Selling Arbeloa for £5m and replacing him with Glen Johnson for £17m has to be the dumbest move the club has made in the last 20 years. Nothing comes close.

Arbeloa's contract was running out and Portsmouth were skint and still owed us money for Crouch, so we could write some of that off rather than see it disappear, at a time when we were skint as well.

Johnson was a good full back, although probably overrated as an attacker and underrated as a defender.

MarkY91

Demosthenese wrote: »

A good keeper can save you 9-12 points a season single handedly. We've not had that in such a long time. It's amazing that when you look back as far as the 90's we've very few keepers that are thought of more than just fondly. We've had some very able keepers no doubt but rarely one that stands out among his peers.

Lets hope that this money is as well spent as it was on Big Virg!

Instead of listening to Sky Sports and the lazy armchair brigade talking about our weakness at every opportunity this year - we'll hopefully be listening to many accolades about Allison.

Just look at united. They're the perfect example what a great keeper does for a team. De Gea win them dozens of points over the years. He is so often their best player in any given game.

If Alisson can be even half as influencal as De Gea then we are in for one hell of a season.

Riesen_Meal

Knex. wrote: »

The players are doing Karaoke at the moment.

Not joking.

Rake of videos flying around, such as Shaqiri screeching out Three Little Birds. Alisson doing Don't Look Back In Anger, and then belting a song out on guitar afterwards. Keita had a song and dance too.

It's like an American rookie initiation or something.

Edit: here's Keita's https://streamable.com/8mjw0

This is brilliant,

Bonding with the lads and hopefully having a few bevs...

Alisson rocking out with the guitar :

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/942g5x/what_cant_this_man_do/

~Rebel~

Gbear wrote: »

Arbeloa's contract was running out and Portsmouth were skint and still owed us money for Crouch, so we could write some of that off rather than see it disappear, at a time when we were skint as well.

Johnson was a good full back, although probably overrated as an attacker and underrated as a defender.

Yeah, that really wasn't a bad deal. Most of the clubs that Portsmouth owed money to at the time simply never saw a penny of it. And as you said, Johnson was quality for a while.

At the time Liverpool were doing a lot of buying from clubs that owed them money, to offset costs.. was the same story with Aquaman coming from Roma.

~Rebel~

Fieldog wrote: »

This is brilliant,

Bonding with the lads and hopefully having a few bevs...

Alisson rocking out with the guitar :

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/942g5x/what_cant_this_man_do/

Seems our Cork lad was at it as well;

https://twitter.com/GavanCasey/status/1025105636718256128/video/1

Good choice Caoimhín kid!

Iused2likebusts

TitianGerm wrote: »

Can't wait for Alisson to make a mistake and the armchair pundits to say he was a waste of money.

A fair few of the other threads regulars said the same about VVD when we conceded a goal against Swansea a few games after he signed.