2018-19 UEFA Champions League

ShamoBuc

monkey9 wrote: »

Payback for what though? It's mistimed because he's off balance and is not intentional. Yeah, it should have been a red, but i hardly think the Porto players are in the dressing room now raging about the tackle, it's probably hardly am afterthought apart from wishing he was suspended for the second leg.

Just you wait till they see all the posts with the picture of the challenge in this thread......

8-10

Berserker wrote: »

I've no time for it. Interrupts the flow of the game also. Showing the decision on the screen is a must if they want to make it work.

For the Trent handball they had a “VAR Penalty Check” notice on the screen when it was happening but didn’t display the result of it. Only time in the game it happened though there were clearly other checks.

Gotta say I think it’s inevitable but I don’t like the way it’s being rolled out in big games

yourdeadwright

Var os so flawed , the will not over turn a decision if its not clear and obvious ,

Sooo Mane is called offside by Lino on Var it looks level but not clear and obvouis mistake by Lino so no goal but if the Lino leaves his flag down it goes to Var because its close and its given as a goal because the Lino hasn't made a clear and obvious mistake ,

So the same incident but Var can give two opposite decision's depending on the Lino's action how is that right

Its suppose to clear it up not make it more unclear

monkey9

That looked a bad one on Kane.

SharpshooterTom

Messi's the best player in the world, but the cult that surrounds him now is getting so silly that even opposition fans want him to score against them. I've even heard some United fans going to game say "I want United win but I hope Messi scores".

Players want to swap his shirt, all rush over to pick him up when he falls over. Its to the point where some of them are gazed in amazement at him that they forget he's an opposition player.

Perhaps Messi is unstoppable tomorrow but I hope United aren't star struck and least make life as awkward as possible for him. Look how Iceland played him at the WC.

citytillidie

.G. wrote: »

Yup, it's needs to be done entirely like the rugby.

Works again in rugby here as it is all in English, will you understand refs if they are speaking in German or a any Eastern European language

Father Hernandez

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Messi's the best player in the world, but the cult that surrounds him now is getting so silly that even opposition fans want him to score against them. I've even heard some United fans going to game say "I want United win but I hope Messi scores".

Players want to swap his shirt, all rush over to pick him up when he falls over. Its to the point where some of them are gazed in amazement at him that they forget he's an opposition player.

Perhaps Messi is unstoppable tomorrow but I hope United aren't star struck and least make life as awkward as possible for him. Look how Iceland played him at the WC.

Jesus

Quazzie

Agent Coulson wrote: »

If Delph was foreign I wonder how much time BT would be putting on that tackle.


They are saying Fernandinho should have seen red for his on Kane.

Delph did nothing wrong. He kicked the ball, and Kane slid in under the swing of his foot. Absolutely nothing he done wrong.

If they were saying Fernandinho should've seen red, then so should Kane as he came back with an elbow of his own

rgace

Is Mendy injured again?

I can't see City winning the CL with Delph in the back four and he would possibly cost them the PL also.

Father Hernandez

rgace wrote: »

Is Mendy injured again?

I can't see City winning the CL with Delph in the back four and he would possibly cost them the PL also.

Out of favour with Pep, off the field shenanigans might cost him life at City. Was caught on camera in a nightclub 9 hours before City bet Fulham,

super_furry

Quazzie wrote: »

Delph did nothing wrong. He kicked the ball, and Kane slid in under the swing of his foot. Absolutely nothing he done wrong.

Look at it in real time and you'll almost struggle to see where the connection is. Definitely not intentional, but if you slow it down enough and run it frame by frame you can make it look as if it is.

yourdeadwright

Father Hernandez wrote: »

rgace wrote: »

Is Mendy injured again?

I can't see City winning the CL with Delph in the back four and he would possibly cost them the PL also.

Out of favour with Pep, off the field shenanigans might cost him life at City. Was caught on camera in a nightclub 9 hours before City bet Fulham,

He played the weekend

citytillidie

super_furry wrote: »

Look at it in real time and you'll almost struggle to see where the connection is. Definitely not intentional, but if you slow it down enough and run it frame by frame you can make it look as if it is.

As I said the other day a still picture can make anything look bad

Strumms

VAR as a concept and as a technological advancement to the game of football is A1. Where we are seeing failure with it is at the level of human interaction. Supposedly highly trained and experienced officials who having multiple opportunities to view the replay at varying angles etc.. cannot conclusively make their minds up as to what decision should be applied whereby to most football people like ourselves it was obvious.

It’s shocking that this level of incompetence should exist at this level of football, where the stakes are so high for both sides, supporters and indeed the wider game itself.

What ultimately should be adding to the game of football and the fairness thereof has only detracted from the experience. The team affected feel ripped off, their supporters too but also every fair minded neutral tuning in simply who has a love of this sport and the fairness thereof.

Potential Underachiever

I just saw the City pen there, is it just me that thought that was a stonewaller? From what I've been reading on here looks like most people think it shouldn't have been given.

Loafing Oaf

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

I just saw the City pen there, is it just me that thought that was a stonewaller? From what I've been reading on here looks like most people think it shouldn't have been given.

Seemed like a definite penalty to me too under the current 'interpretation' of the handball rule...

Strumms

lawred2 wrote: »

And the discussion should be listened to. Too secretive.

I wouldn’t be interested in listening to the officials discussing it during the game. We don’t get to hear the officials and the players in conversation or the officials with each other. It would be getting a bit ‘reality TV’ for my liking. What I wouldn’t mind though is during a highlights package in the evening maybe if then VAR was to be used that day we could retrospectively listen in but that would be at the discretion of the officials I guess and either way I’d rather the focus was in the pitch as opposed to off it.

monkey9

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

I just saw the City pen there, is it just me that thought that was a stonewaller? From what I've been reading on here looks like most people think it shouldn't have been given.

Yeah, definitely a penalty.

dundalkfc10

Father Hernandez wrote: »

rgace wrote: »

Is Mendy injured again?

I can't see City winning the CL with Delph in the back four and he would possibly cost them the PL also.

Out of favour with Pep, off the field shenanigans might cost him life at City. Was caught on camera in a nightclub 9 hours before City bet Fulham,

Is only back from Injury and started Semi Final

Strumms

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I've even heard some United fans going to game say "I want United win but I hope Messi scores”

Anyone saying that should be strangled to death with their own intestines. Personally I hope he taken off the pitch on a stretcher after coming down with a bad case of a transient ischemic attack... well not really but I do hope he has an off night.

Trigger

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

I just saw the City pen there, is it just me that thought that was a stonewaller? From what I've been reading on here looks like most people think it shouldn't have been given.

His arm is raised in a blocking motion. It's a definite penalty for me anyways, it's not like he is protecting himself with his arm or anything.

Dickerty

astradave wrote: »

His arm is raised in a blocking motion. It's a definite penalty for me anyways, it's not like he is protecting himself with his arm or anything.

It's very difficult to throw yourself into blocking a shot and keep your arms in front of your body completely. Probably impossible actually.
Same applies to jumping, you use your arms and can't 100% control where they end up.

You could still argue that the arm stopped the shot, but if it's not deliberate and part of the normal action of bloking a shot, should they really be giving penalties for it?

NIMAN

To be honest I think the new rules they are chatting around penalties are going to be a bugbear for the coming years.

All this talk of shadows, making yourself bigger, arms behind your back etc are hard to listen to.
Some of the penalties are shocking now, and thats going to get worse with VAR, because some very harsh penalties are going to be given, as things often look a lot worse when you slow them down and look at them from 10 different angles.

I personally don't think the Rose penalty last night was a penalty. It is nigh on impossible for a player to try to block a shot like Rose did last night with his arms behind his back. And the Utd one v PSG was totally crazy imho.

But of course people will disagree and say both were clear penalties, thats the way the game has gone now. I live by the old rule that there has to be intent, a deliberate use of the arm, which a lot of these now aren't.

But anyway, it ain't going to change, but we are going to see a lot of very contentious penalties given over the coming years.

GavRedKing

Utd got a very similar penalty against PSG.

You could argue that Citys penalty last night was even more stone wall as Sterlings shot looked like it was at least on target, Utds one, the shot was going hide and wide.

If UEFA are going to insist on punishing every hand ball or ball to hand in the box, they're going have to be consistent and make sure they actually apply it.

8-10

There’s been much worse penalties given, eg World Cup final handball.

Shot could have gone in if not for the block. Trent’s one for Liverpool would have been harsher as the ball looked to be very close to being out of play for a corner already.

I don’t think either were penalties but I can see the case for giving the Rose one. I just don’t like the way decisions are now being made on slow motion replays and still images. Doesn’t seem fair.

It was missed anyway, had it gone in there’d be much more to debate. I still think City turn them over at the Ethiad.

NIMAN

did City appeal much for the Rose one?

Loafing Oaf

NIMAN wrote: »

I personally don't think the Rose penalty last night was a penalty. It is nigh on impossible for a player to try to block a shot like Rose did last night with his arms behind his back./QUOTE]

But he could have got his arm out of the way of the ball if he had really wanted to IMO. Maybe that should be the criterion: handball unless it's effectively impossible for the player to prevent the ball hitting his arm...

GavRedKing

The stat that Guardiola has not won away in the QF or SF of the CL since 2011 is mad, considering hes managed 2 of the biggest sides on the planet.

City were chasing the 2nd leg last year too against Pool and got picked off, granted they were 3-0 down at the time but they'll need to be ruthless up top and cut out silly mistakes at the back.

spurs have a great chance of getting to the semi final now.

8-10

NIMAN wrote: »

did City appeal much for the Rose one?

Didn’t look like any appeal from the highlights

Berserker

If Man City get knocked out by Spurs, where will that leave Pep? That'll be another failed CL campaign. He'll win the FA Cup, in addition to the League Cup but is that good enough? Spurs need to put in the performance of their lives in the next leg to get through but I've got a feeling that they'll get the job done. Juventus will knock them out in the semis, though. You just know that Ronaldo will come up with the goods.

8-10

Berserker wrote: »

If Man City get knocked out by Spurs, where will that leave Pep? That'll be another failed CL campaign. He'll win the FA Cup, in addition to the League Cup but is that good enough? Spurs need to put in the performance of their lives in the next leg to get through but I've got a feeling that they'll get the job done. Juventus will knock them out in the semis, though. You just know that Ronaldo will come up with the goods.

Juventus aren’t guaranteed to be in the Semi. Give Ajax a chance, a ball hasn’t been kicked in that tie yet!

yourdeadwright

As a Liverpool fan im hoping United can beat Barca ,

Although it would be a tuff game as they always are i'd fancy there chances against United more than Barca, if Liverpool do get through ,

Berserker

8-10 wrote: »

Juventus aren’t guaranteed to be in the Semi. Give Ajax a chance, a ball hasn’t been kicked in that tie yet!

I expect Juventus to go through but Ajax will give them one hell of a game without doubt. Just think Juventus have that bit more in terms of quality and having the second leg at home is a big plus.

GLaDOS

United have a similar air about them as Chelsea under Di Matteo. Wouldn't surprise me if they somehow get through.

TheCitizen

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Why use it in massive games then?

Keep testing it until it works, then deploy it.

Well I was watching the Spurs City game and they used it perfectly up to a point. They should have used it more in fact is the point I'd make.

When they did use it they got it spot on. The City penalty was a definite penalty and then VAR reviewed the Spurs goal and they got that 100 percent correct as well.

It should also have been deployed against Rose a second time when he pushed over (Mahrez I think it was) in the penalty box. Should've been another penalty there.

Rose looked totally out of his depth and City let Spurs off the hook last night. They'll put them out next week.

Berserker

TheCitizen wrote: »

Well I was watching the Spurs City game and they used it perfectly up to a point. They should have used it more in fact is the point I'd make.

When they did use it they got it spot on. The City penalty was a definite penalty and then VAR reviewed the Spurs goal and they got that 100 percent correct as well.

Did you not think that waiting around for confirmation after the goal was a bit odd? If you were at the game, you wouldn't have a clue what was going on. They need screens at the games to show what the officials are looking at.

BullBlackNova

Berserker wrote: »

If Man City get knocked out by Spurs, where will that leave Pep? That'll be another failed CL campaign. He'll win the FA Cup, in addition to the League Cup but is that good enough? Spurs need to put in the performance of their lives in the next leg to get through but I've got a feeling that they'll get the job done. Juventus will knock them out in the semis, though. You just know that Ronaldo will come up with the goods.

Pep will be fine - let's not forget that he is potentially just a handful of games away from being the first manager ever to win the domestic treble in England.

No doubt City, Pep and the fans will be angry and disappointed if they exit at QF stage again (especially as you'd have had them favourites vs Spurs and Liverpool, and Monaco in the round of 16 the previous year again) but the entire club is built around the structure of maximising what Guardiola can do (eg, hiring Txiki Begiristain as DoF before Pep arrived). They're not about to tear that up and start again when the domestic success is so clear.

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

Did you not think that waiting around for confirmation after the goal was a bit odd?

We'll get used to it.

Berserker wrote: »

If you were at the game, you wouldn't have a clue what was going on. They need screens at the games to show what the officials are looking at.

Again fans will get used to it. They are being told that VAR are reviewing something I think. As it evolves they should get better at announcing and clarifying decisions.

8-10

TheCitizen wrote: »

Again fans will get used to it. They are being told that VAR are reviewing something I think. As it evolves they should get better at announcing and clarifying decisions.

They definitely need to. In the Liverpool game they announced "VAR penalty check in progress" after it had already happened and play had resumed. The whole thing is very confusing unless it's made a lot clearer. It's inevitable that it's going to come in but I don't get why you fasttrack it's use in the Champions League knockouts, arguably the biggest games you can be in at club level, without at least trying it out in group stage games first

gimli2112

yourdeadwright wrote: »

As a Liverpool fan im hoping United can beat Barca ,

Although it would be a tuff game as they always are i'd fancy there chances against United more than Barca, if Liverpool do get through ,

nope but primarily because I'd prefer to get knocked out by Barce than Utd, the whole build up to a Utd semi-final would be awful. Once we get past Porto though I'll take whomever.

ArmaniJeanss

8-10 wrote: »

They definitely need to. In the Liverpool game they announced "VAR penalty check in progress" after it had already happened and play had resumed. The whole thing is very confusing unless it's made a lot clearer. It's inevitable that it's going to come in but I don't get why you fasttrack it's use in the Champions League knockouts, arguably the biggest games you can be in at club level, without at least trying it out in group stage games first

It's technically much easier to do in the knockouts I'd say.
You've a lesser amount of games, which will generally be in bigger grounds that have the facility for the multiple camera set-up needed to be able to view all angles.

8-10

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

It's technically much easier to do in the knockouts I'd say.
You've a lesser amount of games, which will generally be in bigger grounds that have the facility for the multiple camera set-up needed to be able to view all angles.

Right but that wasn't said at that start of the season. They changed the rules halfway through. If that was what was going to happen they should have informed clubs last summer that there would be no VAR until the knockouts. Going through the group stage and then in December announcing the next round will be different is unfair. I'm against any competition changing rules halfway through

dr.kenneth noisewater

great stat here, outrageous stuff from Messi, would love to see Mbappe in EPL or La Liga soon 
https://twitter.com/HLNinEngeland/status/1115928516749557762?s=20

AdamD

Unfortunately I think Mbappe signing a big contract with PSG means he'll be there for another 2 or 3 seasons. I just can't see them allowing him to leave

charolais0153

AdamD wrote: »

Unfortunately I think Mbappe signing a big contract with PSG means he'll be there for another 2 or 3 seasons. I just can't see them allowing him to leave

Hed be the perfect player for madrid in my opinion.

NIMAN

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Pep will be fine - let's not forget that he is potentially just a handful of games away from being the first manager ever to win the domestic treble in England.

... and having done it on a shoestring budget......man's a genius.

ebbsy

NIMAN wrote: »

... and having done it on a shoestring budget......man's a genius.

+1

City probably will not go any further. They are the English PSG.

As a Liverpool fan I would rather see us face Barcelona than United, it would be some game.

Possibly a narrow win for Barcelona tonight, followed by a thumping over there for United.

citytillidie

NIMAN wrote: »

To be honest I think the new rules they are chatting around penalties are going to be a bugbear for the coming years.

All this talk of shadows, making yourself bigger, arms behind your back etc are hard to listen to.
Some of the penalties are shocking now, and thats going to get worse with VAR, because some very harsh penalties are going to be given, as things often look a lot worse when you slow them down and look at them from 10 different angles.

I personally don't think the Rose penalty last night was a penalty. It is nigh on impossible for a player to try to block a shot like Rose did last night with his arms behind his back. And the Utd one v PSG was totally crazy imho.

But of course people will disagree and say both were clear penalties, thats the way the game has gone now. I live by the old rule that there has to be intent, a deliberate use of the arm, which a lot of these now aren't.

But anyway, it ain't going to change, but we are going to see a lot of very contentious penalties given over the coming years.

What they bring in next year is going to lead to situations like you see in hockey. Next season if the ball hits a hand it is a penalty so you will see players flick the ball onto hands and such like you see players in hockey when it a tight squeeze will look for a defenders foot to get a penalty corner

ArmaniJeanss

citytillidie wrote: »

What they bring in next year is going to lead to situations like you see in hockey. Next season if the ball hits a hand it is a penalty so you will see players flick the ball onto hands and such like you see players in hockey when it a tight squeeze will look for a defenders foot to get a penalty corner

Are you sure about this? I know they Beglin and Hamilton said it repeatedly on RTE last night but I haven't heard it said anywhere else.

My understanding of the rule change is that 'intentional' is only being taken out of the rules for attacking situations. So if the ball touches a forwards arm and goes in the net it will be disallowed regardless of intent.

But if touches a defenders arm then intent or not is still an issue to be decided by the Ref/VAR. So we wouldn't get the hockey situation.

Subtle distinction.

BullBlackNova

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Are you sure about this? I know they Beglin and Hamilton said it repeatedly on RTE last night but I haven't heard it said anywhere else.

My understanding of the rule change is that 'intentional' is only being taken out of the rules for attacking situations. So if the ball touches a forwards arm and goes in the net it will be disallowed regardless of intent.

But if touches a defenders arm then intent or not is still an issue to be decided by the Ref/VAR. So we wouldn't get the hockey situation.

Subtle distinction.

From the IFAB website: http://www.theifab.com/news/133rd_annual_general_meeting

On the topic of defining handball, a decision was taken by The IFAB to provide a more precise and detailed definition for what constitutes handball, in particular with regard to the occasions when a non-deliberate/accidental handball will be penalised. For example a goal scored directly from the hand/arm (even if accidental) and a player scoring or creating a goal-scoring opportunity after having gained possession/control of the ball from their hand/arm (even if accidental) will no longer be allowed.