Feedback Thread 2018

Adamocovic

I remember when I first applied for permission to post on the Soccer Forum. Felt like I was waiting approval for an elite club. One of my first posts was a disaster. No paragraphs just a big block of rambling text (hopefully this isn't a flashback). A mod I think it was picked me up on this and told me in future to break it up into different parts to keep the forum clean, easy to read, and follow it's structure. Immediately I felt it was well ran and somewhat was on eggshells.

Due to how organised and moderated it was I found myself choosing words carefully in hope of not picking up a card, still card-less so far I think, but my posts generally follow a tone of ranting about my love of Phil Jones, so difficult to pick one up.

Now I'm not suggesting an overly sensitive, harsh rule by the mods, but I would echo the views of others that in recent times it has all gotten a bit chaotic at times. Normally it was the Pool v United derby that was the moment of the year where things got messy but now it seems to be every second week. This is mainly to inconsistencies to how it is moderated I think. There was a time where I wouldn't even go near rival fan threads in fear of being carded.

Sometimes moderators seemed more focused on charter rules that have little impact, and then overlook more serious ones. People aren't really clear what will be acceptable and what won't be. Due to this it began to get a bit lawless, especially the match threads which I have stopped using. I used to contribute to them quite a bit, but stay away now apart from a rare sporadic post.

What caused me to throw my hands in the air and tipped it over the edge was when Mods tried to implement their rule of no match-talk in the team threads by locking the team threads. Doing so without even running it by users. The worsening state had pushed people out of the match threads and then the mods for some reason chose to try throw everyone together in the same thread, I didn't understand the reasoning for this.

I must state that some mods are great and they aren't helped by a lot of the carry on by users, but they are also guilty of poorly handling situations. Some users seem like they enjoy the thrill of trying to get a card. But I really believe they might need to start fresh charter wise and then actually follow the agreed upon rules. No wiggle room. It's not the first time . The whole thing needs a restructuring, which I imagine the mods would deem as too time consuming.

This isn't the first time I have given feedback regarding the Soccer forum, but despite all the feedback threads we have I can't honestly say much ground is ever made. I understand it's a difficult process but I would be holding my breath on any significant improvement.

Beasty

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

So no rule on thread title length in SF?

Perhaps the mods might explain

There is no such rule in the SF and never was. There is simply a limit on the number of characters in any thread title across the site

Try it out in the Test Forum if you want to work out what the limit is

Oh, and BTW - I saw your ninja edit - anything like that again and you will get yourself banned from the forum.

Any further questions please PM me

robarmstrong

• ABUSE & TROLLING: Prejudice will not be tolerated, in any form. Outbursts of personal abuse be it directed at other board members or at non-boards persons, famous or otherwise, is strictly prohibited. We reserve the right to edit/move/delete such posts as we see fit and issue bans to the poster of such. The basic rule is keeping it civil; you can have friendly banter without resorting to personal abuse. Posting provocative or controversial opinions with the intention of winding up other posters will also not be tolerated. The moderators reserve the right to make a judgement call on a poster's intent, and issue red cards/bans as necessary. Breaking of this rule will result in heavy punishment in the form of red cards and temporary forum bans. It’s a boards sitewide rule that none of the above is tolerated.

– I combined abuse & trolling together as they are so closely linked, some people use trolling to abuse, some people use abuse as a methods of trolling. I also reworded it and added some more rules in. Abusive PM’s are a sitewide 2 week ban, why not have abusive posts lead to 2 week bans? I know it's harsh maybe, but I think someone throwing abuse out publicly is a bit worse than someone dishing it to you privately, people can see the abuse you're receiving and some may see it as justified, warranted, may agree with the abuse. Open to criticism here guys point out anything you see wrong with this!

• MODERATOR WARNINGS: On occasion, a mod may choose to remind users of forum rules with a general post on-thread. We will endeavour to highlight these warnings by amending thread titles to include reference to the warning, but please remember: warnings are based on the forum charter, which all users should be aware of.

– nobody gets a free pass, if you ignore a mod warning you’re threadbanned immediately from that particular thread or depending on the nature of your post, banned from the forum for a day.

Personally I think maybe these two in particular are a tad harsh and might be seen as overbearing but there are cliques in this forum that need to go, from all sides. No poster or group of posters in here is in any way shape or form bigger than the Soccer forum itself and that needs to be stamped out quickly.

This forum should be like pub chats with your mates, bit of back and forth banter, bit of craic, some good discussion, constructive criticism of teams, acceptance of own team shortcomings and overall general camaraderie. We all might support different teams and have different views but at the end of the day, we're all football fans.

Trigger

Beasty wrote: »

There is no such rule in the SF and never was. There is simply a limit on the number of characters in any thread title across the site

Try it out in the Test Forum if you want to work out what the limit is

Oh, and BTW - I saw your ninja edit - anything like that again and you will get yourself banned from the forum.

Any further questions please PM me

That’s all great but the suggestion that we agree upon was actually smaller than the current one.

Anyways I’m just clarifying Tom’s post, I actually agree with the mods over it. We would then have threads taking pops at other threads just by using the thread title. The rugby forum does have a few good ones and think they are respectful enough to other teams but I don’t think the rivalries match this forum at all.

TheDoc

Having some more unique superthread titles that are not goading to rivals, but may be an inside joke or just something fresher than the normal is something I'd put forward in terms of feedback, as I know its something there is a group of people would like to see.

I believe there was some contention earlier in the year when a superthread was named differently, or looked to be named differently, when there was no real reason or breach of charter or guidelines, and its available in other forums operating superthreads.

Might be something to trial run, see how it works?

In terms of how the title gets generated, not entirely sure, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be overly difficult to figure out and then relay to mods in terms of the requesting title to be implemented during the next cutover.

Shanotheslayer

I only wanted to post about the Everton thread initially, and the abomination it became after a couple of notable individuals who aren't supporters of the club, one whom said he'd never post in the soccer forum again a few years ago under this account anyway, both these individuals nonchalantly and incessantly stick their 2c in non-stop, a mega love-in for the Everton manager last season full well knowing us Everton fans were not happy with the manager then, and wanted a change to something progressive and more watchable than the tripe served up.

While quite obviously, outsiders are more than welcome to weigh in and share their opinion about our club. To do so in such an arrogant manner, constantly hammering their point, all the while one regularly belittled our football knowledge, dismissing our opinion about our own club, us who watch EVERY single Everton game while nothing was done for the longest of time is incredible. I can handle arrogant people myself, but when knowing these people are doing it and doing it knowing full well they're antagonising my fellow supporters to get a reaction they clearly crave it's infuriating.

The Everton fanbase is small enough as is it is here without the need of a few people trying to kill off the thread. Some have threatened they are done with our thread and/or forum, others have I think been carded for at this stage, taking the bait and are growing weary of this place.

I feel like I'm almost derailing this thread with my words above given the embarrassing nature of Mac's situation, but the soccer forum continues to embarrass itself regularly through a combination of dreadfully biased driven, hypocritical posters and likewise some moderators. I'm no fan of Liverpool FC nor fond of many of the supporters here, but he got the action he, and those egging him on craved. Unfortunately for him especially. He didn't expect a backlash in the way he got. And had I been a Liverpool fan posting here on Saturday night, I'd probably have acted the same myself. So for once, I applaud admin for acting swiftly, as I don't think the soccer moderation team would have done anything of note.

And that brings me to Mac not really being the only one who is culpable from the top. There are others here who have shown to be biased in the past as well, some have demodded this year I believe, and this abuse of power will continue to happen in their sly, secretive (deleting posts) or more clear cut ways . When there is someone the mods want to card or ban, they will lock-in on them, that has been evident for a few years now. For the same action, we can easily see two different outcomes. Unfortunately I don't think Mac's situation will really set any precedence other than for perhaps the latest moderator to join the team who the surface under him may not be safe until a certain period of time has passed. I think had Mac been more rooted in the system when it came to the soccer forum, the action taken on him would have been different, which to me concretes the sad state of affairs of the soccer forum. Every year we lose significant posters through petty agenda based posters and moderators, and that will not stop. And every year, we'll be back here bemoaning the same issues without much if any progress, while the same people who are in the thick of the ****, throwing it around without little to no consequence run this forum as much of moderators do. The circle of life of the soccer forum. I'd be of the opinion for the last year a clean house across the board is in order regarding this forum, but know full well that will never happen.

A quick look at this thread specifically, but the sheer lunacy and hypocrisy radiating from some sets of fans especially is off the charts, it is sad as it is funny. Mac deserved what happened to him. Then there is someone who has admitted elsewhere, gleefully taking delight in getting rival fans wound up. Crocodile tears and having others swing for him, some blissfully unaware of what he's like and others not so much.

Soups123

RoboKlopp wrote: »

There's clearly very obvious trolls in the forum. I'm sure the mods know them too, and the Cmods.

Why not get rid of them?

This really, it's the foundation to almost all the issues.

Same trolls allowed do there thing disrupting any hope of normal discussion. Just have some balls and remove the 10 or so of them from the forum. These lads do more damage than the lads who lose the rag on an emotional night of soccer and call some a nounce.

duffman13

So Feedback,

Thread Bans
A really simple one and something Mods can implement on a sliding scale. As has been mentioned banning someone from a specific thread works on other sides across Boards and would work well. Instances of trolling in a thread gets a yellow card as per charter but a ban for a month for said card. 6 months for a 2nd offence, 12 for a third and permaban anyone who accumalates three thread bans from the same thread over a two year period or something. Im spit balling but I think a thread ban deserves discussion.

Preplanned Trolling
This is something Ive seen from both United and Liverpool fans and I find very annoying. Poster A says oh Im gonna go and wind up a few United/Liverpool fans, pops in collects yellow card as per expected. If someone preplans to antagonise a superthread this needs a harsher punisment if im honest. Posting and getting mired in debate with different views is fine but the above is becoming more prevalant on the forum.

Communitcation from Mods
One of my main gripes recently is there feels like a lack of communication from mods on the board before decisions are taken. Naming of match threads is one, the decision mid season to try and stop posting about matches in superthread is another, Saturday night is a third. Im not suggesting a feedback thread every week but of any of the first two instances is being questioned on a match or discussed, why not open a quick thread for a few days and allow people to express an opinion. God forbid we could even put in a poll and allow the userbase to live and die by the decisions they make as opposed to blaming mods for every decision made.

Attitudes in Superthread
One of the reason why I read boards ahead of busier forums is two fold. Knowledgable posters along with interaction across fan bases. There is too much fluff at the moment when you post in an opposition thread of "Oh look, their coming in peace etc" I feel its definitely something that has become more obvious in the past year.

Saturday
I just want to say that i found the hanging out of a mod in a sticky was particularly poor form. I seen some of the posts and its been spoken about at length but for someone to volunteer their time to be treated in such a way by the admin team is shocking really. I respect hugely the work by all mods and admins. I really enjoy boards and get a lot of laughs and info from it. Was MrMac right as a mod? Possibly not, although its not my call and if some people have a problem with it then fine. There is ways of doing things and I felt what happened the weekend was an awful way of handling things.

World Cup
Not sure on this one, if the option to have a major championship forum for the Euros and the World Cup then id be in favour. On the basis of the state of the current forum id be advocating not opening it up unless there is a beefing up of moderators for this period specifically to deal with the number of reregs and potential Russian bots.

Overall
I would say last year I thought everything was ruining smoothly and wouldnt have had much to feedback at all. This year I have found myself wanting to post less and less on the forum for numerous reasons as per above. I dont expect any volunteers to be at anyones beck and call however better communication from top to bottom and bottom to top would lead to a huge improvement in this forum.

thebaz

The modding of the everton fans forum has been terrible since Christmas - one and possibly 2 particular posters have been continually allowed come on the forum and goad us about our old manager , who no Evertonians really liked - no problem with other fans offering different contributions in a respecful way - but continuous repitition became tiresome turning the forum into pure rubbish - if we called it out as trolling we the fans got yellows . Has got better since Sam's departure.

Talisman

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I only wanted to post about the Everton thread initially, and the abomination it became after a couple of notable individuals who aren't supporters of the club, one whom said he'd never post in the soccer forum again a few years ago under this account anyway, both these individuals nonchalantly and incessantly stick their 2c in non-stop, a mega love-in for the Everton manager last season full well knowing us Everton fans were not happy with the manager then, and wanted a change to something progressive and more watchable than the tripe served up.

While quite obviously, outsiders are more than welcome to weigh in and share their opinion about our club. To do so in such an arrogant manner, constantly hammering their point, all the while one regularly belittled our football knowledge, dismissing our opinion about our own club, us who watch EVERY single Everton game while nothing was done for the longest of time is incredible. I can handle arrogant people myself, but when knowing these people are doing it and doing it knowing full well they're antagonising my fellow supporters to get a reaction they clearly crave it's infuriating.

There's the option of ignoring the user (Add to Ignore List functionality), then you don't see what they post unless somebody quotes them.

The only issue I have with the functionality is that it's site wide which can be a bit infuriating because outside of the Soccer Forum the same people can be quite normal.

Tom.D.BJJ

Beasty wrote: »

Oh, and BTW - I saw your ninja edit - anything like that again and you will get yourself banned from the forum.

Any further questions please PM me

That's the reason I edited. Perhaps stop speaking down to people...ninja edit, you entitled cùnt

I guess that's ok because you goaded me 😎

inforfun

After that list on page 1 of yellow card offences....Can i still appeal my red card i got in 2010 for calling Howard Webb a see you next tuesday (an opinion i think is shared by at least 50% of the people here) after seeing my country lose a wc final for the 3rd time?

JK about the appealing but those remarks on page 1 are worse than mine about Webb.

As for the club threads.... get those their own special mod whose only task is to keep an eye on that thread?

And get epl top6 impartial mods for the rest of the soccer forum.
No, i am not saying the mods are biased.

Drumpot

Like stated many times , An interesting aspect of this forum is whether or not mods regulate objectivily or if they interpret certain behavior as trolling incorrectly and fall back on forum charter as a lazy explanation. It’s not clear to me that there is a balanced mod process being applied In this forum. Of course mods should get respect , particularly for the time they put into the forums, but had time been applied to this issue months ago I feel the mods would ironically spend way less time addressing its regularly and the ultimate fallout.

We can’t expect the mods to know everybody but this ties in with the “in for a penny” comment people are making. I get treated the same as seriel WUMs and I’m not even sure many of them get pulled up for similar infractions. Part of that reason is because I don’t report people. That’s not the mods fault but giving warnings to people because some sensitive flowers can’t handle anything that can be remotely interpreted as goading is not cultivating an adult environment. It’s just catering to childish outbursts. It’s like a referee who constantly gives a free for diving or rewards whiney/petulant behavior and the team generally trying to Get on with things is handicapped as a result.

Think the ref being chased by United players for that peno way back when, led by Roy Keane.. The outrage at united players demanding a ref give them “justice”. It’s hard to not feel like the demodding post announcement wasn’t exactly like the ref giving United a peno cause they harassed him into it!

One suggestion is not that much work at all. From playing games in other forums I know that there are quite simple applications that can be setup online to record information. So mods could in short record certain interactions , particular trolling and continuous antagonizing behaviors. If certain people are obviously taking part constantly in this behavior you can properly penalize their behaviors. It doesn’t take as much work as some might think. If you start a spreadsheet you just add to it and eventually a picture emerges.

So a simple spreadsheet with name , date of infraction , note (trolling) , link to info... that’s It. Copy and paste what you are already doing. If some people are constantly coming up address the issue. Have a more lenient approach to names or posters who don’t regularly or obviously engage in this behavior. An issue with this might be selective modding and mods who might target certain posters. That’s why it needs to be regulated evenly.

Perhaps this happens already so it can be dismissed if irrelevant, When big games or busy threads are like Saturday then all mods should review, not just mods of certain fans. Soccer is a game of tribes and if you are a mod in this forum you have your tribe and your bias. Making a statement that mods are required to be impartial doesn’t make it so. Some people are more able to step back and be objective then others.

Another suggestion is proper engagement on these matters. Saturday has been brewing for a long long time. This feels like the perfect opportunity to clear the air. A significant portion of posters don’t trust that there is objective and consistent modding being applied in this forum. No amount of ignoring or dismissing it is going to address these concerns. It just kicks the issue down the road.

One suggestion is that You TRY (not always possible I appreciate it) have a balance of mods. If there is significant discourse on an issue fans can at least reach out to a mod but it’s important that mod has equal support. I presume most people know which team each mods support, what team has the most mods? What about a mod profile in the forum charter section with some small bits about them. Nothing too intimate but it allows people to at least not just See mods as teachers but as people putting time into trying and make this place work . Also means if I have an ongoing issue I might feel more comfortable addressing it with a certain mod.

I would also be interested to know who or what set of supporters report things the most. I’m thinking out loud on this cause I’d imagine this will not be public ally discussed. If it’s one set of supporters that doesn’t necessarily mean they are victims of random, baseless goading. Forcing supporters who aren’t as sensitive or interested in reporting people to report it isn’t cultivating “adult debate” it’s just sanitizing (boring) what shouldn’t be a completely drama free environment and appeasing those with parochial “can give it but can’t take it” bias.

I know good/insightful and uninformed/ignorant Liverpool/United fans. I just try to avoid the children and engage with the decent folk. Don’t let those who throw the toys out of the pram ruin it for everybody. It’s a better discussion when there are two sides, not an echo chamber.

Trigger

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

That's the reason I edited. Perhaps stop speaking down to people...ninja edit, you entitled cùnt

I guess that's ok because you goaded me 😎

Jesus Tom, this stuff helps no one at all, especially in the feedback forum

Trigger

inforfun wrote: »

After that list on page 1 of yellow card offences....Can i still appeal my red card i got in 2010 for calling Howard Webb a see you next tuesday (an opinion i think is shared by at least 50% of the people here) after seeing my country lose a wc final for the 3rd time?

JK about the appealing but those remarks on page 1 are worse than mine about Webb.

As for the club threads.... get those their own special mod whose only task is to keep an eye on that thread?

And get epl top6 impartial mods for the rest of the soccer forum.
No, i am not saying the mods are biased.

This won’t work though as when mods aren’t available other mods will still have to step in, and in fairness it’s practically the way it is anyways at the moment, but having only one mod allowed to mod a thread won’t work

Beasty

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

That's the reason I edited. Perhaps stop speaking down to people...ninja edit, you entitled cùnt

I guess that's ok because you goaded me ��

Was going to ban you for a month for personal abuse, but I'm upgrading it to 6 months after reviewing your record for the season and the comments in that ninja edit.

DM_7

thebaz wrote: »

The modding of the everton fans forum has been terrible since Christmas - one and possibly 2 particular posters have been continually allowed come on the forum and goad us about our old manager , who no Evertonians really liked - no problem with other fans offering different contributions in a respecful way - but continuous repitition became tiresome turning the forum into pure rubbish - if we called it out as trolling we the fans got yellows . Has got better since Sam's departure.

The alternative view, about every topic, must happen on every super thread? Sometimes it can be genuine opinion and others can be an attempt to disrupt/spam. It must be hard to tell the difference for mods though.

It is particularly annoying for regulars as some posters will respond and derail the thread or allow the contrary opinion decide what the topic of the day is. It is a really difficult one for a mod to tackle or for regulars ro see past when it happens.

Certainly if someone repeatedly says the same thing it should be pointed out that they are effectively spamming and asked to stop. If evidence was provided to a mod from regulars who see it, they would surely look at it?

bucketybuck

astradave wrote: »

Jesus Tom, this stuff helps no one at all, especially in the feedback forum

Oh I don't know, without condoning it at least we do get to see a response to personal abuse.

robarmstrong

Beasty wrote: »

Was going to ban you for a month for personal abuse, but I'm upgrading it to 6 months after reviewing your record for the season and the comments in that ninja edit.

Genuinely those comments were not needed, not sure what point he was trying to prove and all it did was detract from discussion..

But my add-on would be (forgive me if it seems I'm questioning mod action here) - would it make sense to you to apply that level of strictness to those who have previously been abusive, like for example those directed at Mick?

osarusan

robarmstrong wrote: »

But my add-on would be (forgive me if it seems I'm questioning mod action here) - would it make sense to you to apply that level of strictness to those who have previously been abusive, like for example those directed at Mick?

If I understand correctly from last night, at least some of the posters have now been banned, even sitebanned?


If so, it would be no harm to make that point clear at the start of the thread by editing a post and posting an update.

inforfun

astradave wrote: »

This won’t work though as when mods aren’t available other mods will still have to step in, and in fairness it’s practically the way it is anyways at the moment, but having only one mod allowed to mod a thread won’t work

Has it ever been tried?
Some of those threads might need 2 or 3 of those mods as the number of posts a day warrants that. Say like during the transfer windows.
Those thread are clique'ish (understandable) anyway so might as well have them moderated by themselves too.

Trigger

bucketybuck wrote: »

Oh I don't know, without condoning it at least we do get to see a response to personal abuse.

Nixonbot clarified that they have been sitebanned here

Nixonbot wrote: »

They have been.

It might be a bit late alright but they have reviewed it and issued bans

I think Steve replied here too giving apologies for what happened and said it was a big **** up with the mods/cmods and they will be reviewing things going forward

Beasty

One of the points I would like to highlight about Saturday in particular, is that most avid fans of Liverpool, as well as other clubs, were probably glued to the box. I've already mentioned there were 120 reported posts during and after the match. I am sure the Liverpool supporting mods in particular really (and quite rightly) did not feel an obligation to try and control some of the chancers around here. They got to most of it eventually. I think when they did there was so much to plough through it became a case of dishing out yellows rather than trying to think too deeply about alternative sanctions.

That 48 hours was the worst I've seen in the forum, and coming so soon after a Cup Final defeat for United, yes perhaps we could have tried to plan something. It's feedback taken and a lesson learned.

As I've said I was on a ferry at the time and just trying to catch updates when I could. There have been a few blowups in the forum during my time as CMod and Admin where I have stepped in to try and take some heat out of the situation. Unfortunately though that often results in temporary thread locks, but I suspect there would have been a much bigger fallout if we halted discussion of the match at half time.

Yes it's a bit of use of hindsight, but equally I would hope we can be better prepared for certain matches going forward

Trigger

inforfun wrote: »

Has it ever been tried?
Some of those threads might need 2 or 3 of those mods as the number of posts a day warrants that. Say like during the transfer windows.
Those thread are clique'ish (understandable) anyway so might as well have them moderated by themselves too.

Well it’s basically tried in principle, replacing United supporting soccer mods with active United fan posters, the same for Liverpool mods, it’s where they would spend the majority of their time so they would in essence police that thread, the problem comes from when there is no other mods available and one of those mods goes to action something or put in a warning in an opposing thread and that results in shouts of moderator bias. Sometimes quick action is needed and if there is no mods available you cannot let the thread descend into free reign.

In fairness this is all my thoughts on the matter, not what the mods/cmods/admin think.

Beasty

robarmstrong wrote: »

Genuinely those comments were not needed, not sure what point he was trying to prove and all it did was detract from discussion..

But my add-on would be (forgive me if it seems I'm questioning mod action here) - would it make sense to you to apply that level of strictness to those who have previously been abusive, like for example those directed at Mick?

I think we need to take a bit of time out to consider what we do. Some have posted indicating they don't want retrospective action. Others have the opposite view. Some of the mods have already indicated they may well have acted differently. Other mods have certainly confirmd in the mods forum that with more time they would probably have applied harsher sanctions for some of the posts

I'm personally tending towards some retrospective action, but only on posts that were abusive to other users (unless I'm missing something else that may appear particularly heinous)

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

This won’t work though as when mods aren’t available other mods will still have to step in, and in fairness it’s practically the way it is anyways at the moment, but having only one mod allowed to mod a thread won’t work

That worked out well for MrMac84

jayo26

Nice to see some decent feedback this morning guys well done.

One thing I would like to make clear is I never argued for retrospective action so if people have been site banned I take no pleasure from it I was more concerned to what the actual reason for the charter not been followed and if it wasnt followed for the wrong reasons and what it means for the future.

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

That worked out well for MrMac84

At the end of the day, it is what it is, the only other option is really having all Neutral Moderators and even then it’s goong to cause problems, as if they don’t follow or understand football I don’t think they could moderate it successfully and I don’t think they would put up their spare time to put up with the stuff that goes on here

Will I Am Not

astradave wrote: »

Nixonbot clarified that they have been sitebanned here



It might be a bit late alright but they have reviewed it and issued bans

The user that called Mac a nonce wasn’t sitebanned. A yellow card seems to be seen as a just punishment there.

Trigger

Will I Am Not wrote: »

The user that called Mac a nonce wasn’t sitebanned. A yellow card seems to be seen as a just punishment there.

I can only hope they are still working thru the posts so, that’s not to say I’m pushing for these bans. I’m basically like Bucky, just want an explanation, I don’t really care for the retrospective action

pjohnson

Beasty wrote: »

I think we need to take a bit of time out to consider what we do. Some have posted indicating they don't want retrospective action. Others have the opposite view. Some of the mods have already indicated they may well have acted differently. Other mods have certainly confirmd in the mods forum that with more time they would probably have applied harsher sanctions for some of the posts

I'm personally tending towards some retrospective action, but only on posts that were abusive to other users (unless I'm missing something else that may appear particularly heinous)

In the heat of the moment maybe mistakes were made and moderators erred on the side of caution. But when things cool down if under review a post is worthy of a higher sanction then so be it. I mean people get yellow cards overturned if an appeal is valid so why can't it go the other way I guess?


I would still have a huge question just how any moderator at anytime can see calling someone a nonce as only worthy of a yellow.....that was a bad fail no matter what either they didn't read the reported posts or it was bias but the wheels really came off at that point and a awful decision was made when it was a simple action.

robarmstrong

pjohnson wrote: »

In the heat of the moment maybe mistakes were made and moderators erred on the side of caution. But when things cool down if under review a post is worthy of a higher sanction then so be it. I mean people get yellow cards overturned if an appeal is valid so why can't it go the other way I guess?


I would still have a huge question just how any moderator at anytime can see calling someone a nonce as only worthy of a yellow.....that was a bad fail no matter what either they didn't read the reported posts or it was bias but the wheels really came off at that point.

It seems like a double-edged sword though, yellow card and people think it's too soft a punishment, but banning them from the soccer forum instantly/red card and reviewing after a DRP is opened/PM is sent?

It's difficult to judge, honestly. If it was me I'd ban straight away (for the nonce post) and leave the poster open to approach me/DRP and discuss it further, my method simply being getting them off the thread ASAP before the whole thing escalates further and then review when heads are cooled.

Maybe the way I described might be a tad too harsh?

Soups123

Feedback

Why not take a moderator or two not affiliated with Utd/Liverpool to moderate those club and match threads, no biased no club links just a decent member who'll go in there and apply the don't be a dick rule consistently!

Trigger

robarmstrong wrote: »

It seems like a double-edged sword though, yellow card and people think it's too soft a punishment, but banning them from the soccer forum instantly/red card and reviewing after a DRP is opened/PM is sent?

It's difficult to judge, honestly. If it was me I'd ban straight away (for the nonce post) and leave the poster open to approach me/DRP and discuss it further, my method simply being getting them off the thread ASAP before the whole thing escalates further and then review when heads are cooled.

Maybe the way I described might be a tad too harsh?

You are right though, the situation needs to be defused, instaban and warning on thread that personal abuse is zero tolerance on the SF. If the poster thinks the sanction was too tough they can decide to appeal it to the mod and then follow DPR.

dfx-

StringerBell, I can vouch that your good authority is wrong too.

Lord TSC wrote: »

Nixonbot, I'm curious (and asking because, in fairness, you're the only mod engaging people here)...

In the aftermath of the abuse on Saturday, was there discussion in the mod forum about what action should be taken? Was there a discussion about not just Mac's role in the events, but the reactions they caused? My memory is that the yellows for the abuse weren't actually given out till around midday on Sunday (thats the timestamp I noticed for some of the worst offenders getting yellows).

So why was there a delay in carding, and was there a discussion behind the scenes of what punishments were warranted? I stress, I'm not asking about discussions about Mac. I'm talking about what discussions were there about the overall aftermath of the situation? Were the comments debated and discussed? Did the mods who dealt the yellows simply do it on their own accord?

It strikes me that the main concern in this thread all day has been "how was the decision reached to 'only' give yellows for what look very clear reds", and there still hasn't been an attempt made to discuss it....

I know I carded posts and banned people on Sunday morning long before then with the short time I had available at 1am. I logged in and there were 100 reported posts. How long should the discussion at 1am be with a meltdown in progress. Do you wait, lock the thread for this discussion and let the posts sit overnight unpunished until Sunday or Monday by the time all other mods get online?

I probably did not get to all of the posts though others probably have since (I won't speak for them), I will review, rescind, stand over and upgrade anything where necessary. If there are yellows I've given that should be reds, I'm happy to do that when I look at them again and if yellows should be rescinded I'm happy to do so.

I can say that this was the biggest meltdown by a long long way in the six years I've modded the SF. Waiting for discussion was not an option.

astradave wrote: »

Oh yeah, Nixonbot to add to my previous post about the thread titles, another reason given was that there can only be a certain amount of characters in a thread title, :pac: in fairness I thought that was just an excuse to move the discussion away from it..

The reason I would give for keeping it the same format is that it is a quick standard approach that works. Sort of a it's not broken, why fix it thing.

Kiith

The constant bitching between fans of different teams is the main reason a lot of Spurs fans didn't want to join the Soccer thread, and why many of them haven't come across after the forum was closed (not gonna bother getting into that again). I'm all for a bit of fun with opposition fans, but it gets absolutely mental in here at times, as evidenced during recent weeks. Definitely keeps me from posting more than i do.

For mods (and anyone), it can be incredibly hard to make decisions in the heat of the moment, and not have them be biased. I get emotional after a loss, and i can only imagine what it's like to lose in a big final (since we never get there :pac:), and can say for sure that i would find it hard not to be treat opposition fans harder because of it.

Honestly, i think having non soccer fans as mods in here is about the only way to guarantee impartiality

GavRedKing

Soups123 wrote: »

Feedback

Why not take a moderator or two not affiliated with Utd/Liverpool to moderate those club and match threads, no biased no club links just a decent member who'll go in there and apply the don't be a dick rule consistently!

Wish it was that easy.

Its hard to find a decent candidate although we could try and out source it to a current mod(s) on another forum if they were willing to do it.

Without speaking for either, I think dfx and Turtwig are about as unboased as it gets from the current mod team, I dont think either support a PL side, open to correction though.

Minderbinder

Why can’t the team threads require registration with posters only allowed to register in one? Fans of rival teams going into other threads is never welcomed and it’s not necessary. We can already talk about our rivals in the General PL thread, and I reckon that thread would be conducive to a better natured discussion between rivals with it being neutral territory.

Trigger

Soups123 wrote: »

Feedback

Why not take a moderator or two not affiliated with Utd/Liverpool to moderate those club and match threads, no biased no club links just a decent member who'll go in there and apply the don't be a dick rule consistently!

I get your point but What teams should they support though? The majority of Irish posters who have an affinity to an English club have some form of dislike towards Liverpool and United. It would be hard to find decent active posters who would be truly neutral. Bear in mind these moderators are given privileges as they are active.

duffman13

Kiith wrote: »

The constant bitching between fans of different teams is the main reason a lot of Spurs fans didn't want to join the Soccer thread, and why many of them haven't come across after the forum was closed (not gonna bother getting into that again). I'm all for a bit of fun with opposition fans, but it gets absolutely mental in here at times, as evidenced during recent weeks. Definitely keeps me from posting more than i do.

For mods (and anyone), it can be incredibly hard to make decisions in the heat of the moment, and not have them be biased. I get emotional after a loss, and i can only imagine what it's like to lose in a big final (since we never get there :pac:), and can say for sure that i would find it hard not to be treat opposition fans harder because of it.

Honestly, i think having non soccer fans as mods in here is about the only way to guarantee impartiality

Not dissing it but your not going to attract a non football fan to mod this place, too much work for a topic they don't have an interest in. I've modded a few different ones on reddit and another site but you need to have an interest in the topic and some knowledge of the gsme IMO

duffman13

Minderbinder wrote: »

Why can’t the team threads require registration with posters only allowed to register in one? Fans of rival teams going into other threads is never welcomed and it’s not necessary. We can already talk about our rivals in the General PL thread, and I reckon that thread would be conducive to a better natured discussion between rivals with it being neutral territory.

I enjoy reading other opinions other than that of fans of one particular team. I for one have good chats in the Arsenal and Liverpool forum over the last couple of years and never really had an issue. The discussion in superthreads moves quick and you tend to get good conversations in there from a cross section of people.

The likes of red cafe and bluemoon are what your looking for limiting posters to threads. If you think boards is bad those places are a **** show

TitianGerm

Minderbinder wrote: »

Why can’t the team threads require registration with posters only allowed to register in one? Fans of rival teams going into other threads is never welcomed and it’s not necessary. We can already talk about our rivals in the General PL thread, and I reckon that thread would be conducive to a better natured discussion between rivals with it being neutral territory.

So because a few morons can't control themselves no one should be allowed to post in another teams thread?

That is honestly one of the worst ideas I've heard.

There's plenty of United lads who post in the Liverpool thread that open up good discussion and can bring a different viewpoint, the same with Liverpool fans in the United threads. I've seen a few of the Spurs lads in the Chelsea thread as well, I'm sure there's loads more.

Trigger

Minderbinder wrote: »

Why can’t the team threads require registration with posters only allowed to register in one? Fans of rival teams going into other threads is never welcomed and it’s not necessary. We can already talk about our rivals in the General PL thread, and I reckon that thread would be conducive to a better natured discussion between rivals with it being neutral territory.

This keeps being said, but in all honesty it’s one of the most untrue things being said in here

robarmstrong

GavRedKing wrote: »

Wish it was that easy.

Its hard to find a decent candidate although we could try and out source it to a current mod(s) on another forum if they were willing to do it.

Without speaking for either, I think dfx and Turtwig are about as unboased as it gets from the current mod team, I dont think either support a PL side, open to correction though.

It absolutely would be hard but I don't think out-sourcing it would be necessary, you might have a harder time trying to find someone. You can absolutely be a fan of a PL team and not be biased when it comes to the moderation of the discussion around issues stemming from those kind of threads, it just takes a bit of common sense and maturity, there are quite a few Liverpool posters that I'd be happy and comfortable with seeing to be modding a United thread and vice versa.

It all comes down to the individual, their maturity and common sense/posting style, then there won't be a worry about bias at all, just my thoughts!

pjohnson

astradave wrote: »

You are right though, the situation needs to be defused, instaban and warning on thread that personal abuse is zero tolerance on the SF. If the poster thinks the sanction was too tough they can decide to appeal it to the mod and then follow DPR.

Yep. How that slipped through should surely be investigated. No genuine way "nonce" could be excused.

Is that gunna be examined?

pjohnson

Minderbinder wrote: »

Why can’t the team threads require registration with posters only allowed to register in one? Fans of rival teams going into other threads is never welcomed and it’s not necessary. We can already talk about our rivals in the General PL thread, and I reckon that thread would be conducive to a better natured discussion between rivals with it being neutral territory.

If you find yourself unable to post in a rival thread maybe take a look at yourself. Plenty of posters can.

Soups123

GavRedKing wrote: »

Wish it was that easy.

Its hard to find a decent candidate although we could try and out source it to a current mod(s) on another forum if they were willing to do it.

Without speaking for either, I think dfx and Turtwig are about as unboased as it gets from the current mod team, I dont think either support a PL side, open to correction though.

Problem is having one in each, the crowd causing the hassle are calling out the bias inconsistencies.

If it was a pair of mods with jurisdiction over both dreads appling a very simple don't be a dick policy I'm sure they could rain it in.

There's 100s of decent posters in here or outside of here that could easily do it, especially if the modding expectation was limited to those two groups.

I don't do it so take your point it may not be as easy as I say!

GavRedKing

robarmstrong wrote: »

It absolutely would be hard but I don't think out-sourcing it would be necessary, you might have a harder time trying to find someone. You can absolutely be a fan of a PL team and not be biased when it comes to the moderation of the discussion around issues stemming from those kind of threads, it just takes a bit of common sense and maturity, there are quite a few Liverpool posters that I'd be happy and comfortable with seeing to be modding a United thread and vice versa.

It all comes down to the individual, their maturity and common sense/posting style, then there won't be a worry about bias at all, just my thoughts!

The main criteria for modding is to be a prolific/active enough poster, have a clean record and to be recognised by the Mods/Cmods/Admins as having been a good poster who could be a good mod.

The nature of Soccer and the card system we have in place can exclude a few posters from that due to them racking up cards, even if they are good posters but the local mods can pick names to send to the Admins and they'll get final say on it.

Not everyone that gets this far in the process actually wants to mod the forum and people do turn it down for a number of reasons once approached, it is, as I've alluded too, probably the 2nd hardest mod job on Boards after AH, maybe Politics but I rarely post in either forum to know enough about either.

marklazarcovic

astradave wrote: »

This keeps being said, but in all honesty it’s one of the most untrue things being said in here

Limit it to certain fans then, because it is partly true,some are not welcome by the majority because of their posting style. And they know it but post anyway,can only be to rile right? Get them thanks.

Soups123

astradave wrote: »

I get your point but What teams should they support though? The majority of Irish posters who have an affinity to an English club have some form of dislike towards Liverpool and United. It would be hard to find decent active posters who would be truly neutral. Bear in mind these moderators are given privileges as they are active.

I don't think you look for neutrality more so maturity and there is plenty of that here.