Feedback Thread 2018

Trigger

thebaz wrote: »

it wasnt me who used that term - I am just highlighting how our fans forum has been a allowed degeneate into a complete car crash - i thought with a new manager things would improve , but no - business as usual (on boards

Oh I know it wasn’t you, more a general comment on the cards for Everton fans for having to put up with it, i do understand that and I agree that the Everton thread has been seriously derailed, and it’s become a terrible read lately( I like to read all the superthreads) just couldn’t believe that it was resorted to tbf.

I agree with Jayo, if ye collectively ignore the poster none of ye will see his posts and he will go away.

Rekop dog

thebaz wrote: »

it wasnt me who used that term - I am just highlighting how our fans forum has been a allowed degeneate into a complete car crash - i thought with a new manager things would improve , but no - business as usual (on boards

In what world is it deemed ok to call someone something like that and then have people defending it??

Trigger

Beasty wrote: »

Me

And it was on the back of a lot of disquiet over the move towards match discussion in Superthreads when there were match threads set up to discuss matches. 3-4 years ago it was a strictly enforced rule on the back of prior feedback

However there was an immediate backlash and it never happened

Can I ask who the disquiet was from? Was it mods? As as far as I could see throughout the forum as a whole the vast majority of posters where delighted with the change, in fact it was put forward last year in the feedback thread to practically no negativity towards it, surely back then was the time for the posters to voice concerns over it

Beasty

Couple of points on recent issues raised

Firstly the mods are looking at the specifics of the Everton thread and discussing what action to take. As a wider point on people disrupting specific superthreads what do people think about thread bans? That can deal with specific problems permanently whereas cards and resultant bans are usually only temporary measures.

Running more than one account without Admin or Office permission is not allowed. If someone abandons or closes one account they can start a new one, but posting across the accounts should never overlap. As already mentioned if anyone suspects this please report their suspicions to the mods

Thread bans would be welcomed.

Could fix a few problems pretty sharpish.

thebaz

Rekop dog wrote: »

In what world is it deemed ok to call someone something like that and then have people defending it??

read the thread - you know perfectly well it wasnt me who used term - or defended it - but question to you now -

Why when Everton thread was closed a month ago did you thank the closure - then you continue to come back time and time again with the same stuff about Sam - we know you like him , just accept we and many other Evertonians don't - such is life - move on (or else it is trolling - and for that i got yellow cards for calling it such. - good luck

TitianGerm

astradave wrote: »

Well there will be a red probably handed out to an Everton fan tonight anyways.. can’t believe posters are on the feedback thread, I take it they read the whole thing, and still used the word nonce as a turn of phrase..

That's what I was thinking. Was going to say it on thread but didn't want to be accused of stirring the pot.

CSF

To be honest, I’d be in favour of some pretty strict modding on here. I often find the place is dealt with like a Premier League referee who doesn’t want to give out a yellow card incase he spends the rest of the game having to give out yellows for similar offences. Which is obviously weak reffing/modding.

Certain posters seem to get away with too much blurring of the lines on here and it’s hard to see a positive to that. A no-nonsense approach would definitely go some way towards fixing things and I don’t really see any cons to it other than stopping allowing people act like a*sholes?

Trigger

Beasty wrote: »

Couple of points on recent issues raised

Firstly the mods are looking at the specifics of the Everton thread and discussing what action to take. As a wider point on people disrupting specific superthreads what do people think about thread bans? That can deal with specific problems permanently whereas cards and resultant bans are usually only temporary measures.

Running more than one account without Admin or Office permission is not allowed. If someone abandons or closes one account they can start a new one, but posting across the accounts should never overlap. As already mentioned if anyone suspects this please report their suspicions to the mods

Thread bans would probably be the way to go, but would it be a permanent ban? Or a week, month or so on, I know you probably haven’t discussed the specifics but yeah I’d be all for it anyways and I’m sure it would be most welcome, I know it works well in other forums

jayo26

Would thread ban not carry over to the next thread then tho?

For all the bickering we do I believe the general consensus between most regular posters across all threads is for the mods to either enforce the rules that are there at the moment without exception or just abandon the ones you feel you can't enforce properly.

thebaz

Beasty wrote: »

Couple of points on recent issues raised

Firstly the mods are looking at the specifics of the Everton thread and discussing what action to take. As a wider point on people disrupting specific superthreads what do people think about thread bans? That can deal with specific problems permanently whereas cards and resultant bans are usually only temporary measures.

for perpetual offenders great idea - I have no issue with other fans coming to our forum - but would expect the same respect i would give ther forum - may not like or agree with what they - but where it is never-ending - it becomes firstly tiresome and inevibly unusable.

Beasty

astradave wrote: »

Thread bans would probably be the way to go, but would it be a permanent ban? Or a week, month or so on, I know you probably haven’t discussed the specifics but yeah I’d be all for it anyways and I’m sure it would be most welcome, I know it works well in other forums

If someone is continually being pulled up for their posts about a particular club, I don't see why it should not be permanent, and carried over into new threads. Maybe we could then allow the poster to request to be able to post again after a minimum of, say, 6 months, but would only get permission to do so under strict conditions, or under threat of a forum ban

I'm bouncing the idea around, and it will need fine tuning if adopted

redzerdrog

I like the thread banning, maybe first time its a ban for the duration of the thread and second time then it carries over to all future threads

Trigger

Beasty wrote: »

If someone is continually being pulled up for their posts about a particular club, I don't see why it should not be permanent, and carried over into new threads. Maybe we could then allow the poster to request to be able to post again after a minimum of, say, 6 months, but would only get permission to do so under strict conditions, or under threat of a forum ban

I'm bouncing the idea around, and it will need fine tuning if adopted

That actually sounds like a decent way to implement it from the start anyways, you could even give it a trial run for this season and then either tweak it, scrap it or make it a permanent fixture

Trigger

redzerdrog wrote: »

I like the thread banning, maybe first time its a ban for the duration of the thread and second time then it carries over to all future threads

That would only really work in the Utd and Liverpool threads, other threads can take years to reach 10000 posts

Beasty

astradave wrote: »

Can I ask who the disquiet was from? Was it mods? As as far as I could see throughout the forum as a whole the vast majority of posters where delighted with the change, in fact it was put forward last year in the feedback thread to practically no negativity towards it, surely back then was the time for the posters to voice concerns over it

It was from a number of sources. We've had mods who were strong proponents of posting match comments in Superthreads. We've had others pointing out it just adds to divides in the forum. Say United were playing Everton, and there was no match thread. Does that mean anyone logging in to the forum part way through the match only finding discussion in the United thread then end up stirring things when they start cheering an Everton goal?

I personally had thought it was worth a try, but was essentially overruled by the userbase In trying it out, a Liverpool vs United match was going to be the best one to allow a proper "evaluation"

Anyway, as I've already mentioned, we backed down from the idea very quickly, and certainly ahead of the match

Trigger

Beasty wrote: »

It was from a number of sources. We've had mods who were strong proponents of posting match comments in Superthreads. We've had others pointing out it just adds to divides in the forum. Say United were playing Everton, and there was no match thread. Does that mean anyone logging in to the forum part way through the match only finding discussion in the United thread then end up stirring things when they start cheering an Everton goal?

I personally had thought it was worth a try, but was essentially overruled by the userbase In trying it out, a Liverpool vs United match was going to be the best one to allow a proper "evaluation"

Anyway, as I've already mentioned, we backed down from the idea very quickly, and certainly ahead of the match

Well no, that is where the general PL thread comes into it and it’s used for exactly this.

Liam O

astradave wrote: »

Can I ask who the disquiet was from? Was it mods? As as far as I could see throughout the forum as a whole the vast majority of posters where delighted with the change, in fact it was put forward last year in the feedback thread to practically no negativity towards it, surely back then was the time for the posters to voice concerns over it

I remember a lot of times around then there would be certain posters complaining about it in match threads everytime. I prefer match threads in general but did retreat to the United thread sometimes but certainly remember some disquiet about superthread discussion of games in match threads.

In fairness, I do have a big problem with things that happen in one thread being discussed elsewhere where the posters may not see it and get a chance to defend themselves but general discussion in match threads was what was being complained about as if it hurt the people in question, who I would have put down as being the people who were out to cause a rise I thought was interesting.

Ultimately my posting is down fairly significantly from previous years. An issue with me getting older rather than the forum so things like that just don't show up on my radar as much anymore.

Trigger

Liam O wrote: »

I remember a lot of times around then there would be certain posters complaining about it in match threads everytime. I prefer match threads in general but did retreat to the United thread sometimes but certainly remember some disquiet about superthread discussion of games in match threads.

In fairness, I do have a big problem with things that happen in one thread being discussed elsewhere where the posters may not see it and get a chance to defend themselves but general discussion in match threads was what was being complained about as if it hurt the people in question, who I would have put down as being the people who were out to cause a rise I thought was interesting.

Ultimately my posting is down fairly significantly from previous years. An issue with me getting older rather than the forum so things like that just don't show up on my radar as much anymore.

I do remember a handful of posters saying that, but they where also looking for cards for people and saying it was breaking the rules when in fact the rules had changed. If they did not read the charter then their arguments are null and void.

adox

Beasty wrote: »

If someone is continually being pulled up for their posts about a particular club, I don't see why it should not be permanent, and carried over into new threads. Maybe we could then allow the poster to request to be able to post again after a minimum of, say, 6 months, but would only get permission to do so under strict conditions, or under threat of a forum ban

I'm bouncing the idea around, and it will need fine tuning if adopted

I think it’s a great idea. Where there may be doubt about banning a poster from the soccer forum or it may be considered too harsh or sort of inbeween the lines of a full ban and not then a thread ban is the best solution all around.

Easier for the mods to decide on too as it’s not taking away all privileges in the forum but removing the problem from the thread.

I’d be all for it.

adox

Isn’t there a rule on soap boxing as well? That’s an issue on the superthreads imo and less than subtle way to low level troll.

AidoEirE

Whens this thread winding up. Only ask cause although there are points from all to take into account, its a bit of a **** show to waddle through. Will give people a chance to lay their pointa down properly instead of the thread just closing. Can we get a deadline when its closing by any chance. People can post maybe in some sort of bullet form from whats wanted next season.

After this then maybe a sticky by the mods laying down the new rules

I see the poster who thinks Everton fans are stupid is now at the centre of a "discussion" on the word "nonce" as that thread goes off the rails again.

It is such a perfect example of bad modding and it's amusingly ironic that the bad modding continues as the mods look for feedback on modding here.

AidoEirE

Hence my comment above, they'll be any poster here no matter the side or person are now going to find offense with everything and have done already.

We should move on as a collective, throw down some ideas to mods and the rest. Take a step back and see what they release down the line.
Honestly its been back and fourth for ages and getting knowhere.

Move on, set a new charter, everybody from top to bottom follow it and see how we get on.

Most are so wound up about the ****e going on. Every1 forget. Done, dusted, move on. Big mistakes were made, but as a adult community pretty sure we can come together and

*MAKE THE SOCCER FORUM GREAT AGAIN

Donnielighto

A problem is when you allow game discussion in Superthreads then there is an inferred double standard. Because the Superthread discussion is protected the moderation of discussion in other locations is perceived to be laxer and it is in the most part. However this means you end up with a bunch of degenerates posting trying to get a rise out of whoever is playing.

The solution to this is to force the discussion of matches into match or general comp threads. Card people who repeatedly try to bring match discussion into them. You'll have to protect these discussion areas though and that is another area that needs improvement. Implement read backs if requested and give warnings and bans to persistent offenders, there are a limited amount causing grief across the forums, I'd guess the banning of 6/7 accounts would cut down on most of the issues between fans.

Now as mentioned earlier there are posters who discuss opposition teams fairly and fully, slickric being one. Those guys should be known, the community is relatively small, most of us recognise each others usernames. For guys that are balanced leave them to their criticism. Deal however with the blatant trolls and the more subtle guys who only ever post something with a negative slant towards teams or the like.

AIG is a perfect example of the mods not using the above common sense approach to trolling and bans, he was let loose too long despite clear antisocial posting behaviour and pissed off swathes of the the forum. Dealing with issues like the above in a timely manner and implementing bans for trolling behaviour where guys are obvious in their intent would generate a lot of good will imo.

Donnielighto

adox wrote: »

Isn’t there a rule on soap boxing as well? That’s an issue on the superthreads imo and less than subtle way to low level troll.

Tbh I've never really got this. Would my above post be soapboxing? Is it all tldr posts or what?

AidoEirE

Donnielighto wrote: »

Tbh I've never really got this. Would my above post be soapboxing? Is it all tldr posts or what?

Whats soapboxing?

Necro

Rekop dog wrote:

In what world is it deemed ok to call someone something like that and then have people defending it??

Lol, you know exactly what you're doing on that thread, so don't come in here playing the victim when the term wasn't even directed at you.

The place is great 99% of the time.
Ignore what happened after the CL final and the stuff in the everton thread (I'm not sure what that is BTW) and presumably the place has been ticking away nicely.

There's a constant speel from a small few about how the place is dying etc & how reddit is great.... I think those posts are less than helpful too though.

Feck off to reditt if it's so good imo

blueser

AidoEirE wrote: »

Whats soapboxing?

Without googling it, I would imagine it's preaching. Someone getting up on their soapbox and preaching/lecturing to the great unwashed.

Lord TSC

In terms of forums, it tends to refer to people who pick a single issue and push a single side of it to a nearly obsessive degree.

So, for example, I adore X, I refuse to hear bad about X, I will turn every topic into a discussion about how great X is, etc, completly dominating a thread to an annoying degree.

There can be a line between being a fan and obsessive soapboxing, but I'm guessing 90% of people on here would know a few posters who obviously do it to wind others up, rather than being genuine.

Tom Mann Centuria

Soapboxing must be quite frustrating for regular posters in threads.There was a Pardew thing in the Newcastle thread a few years ago which got quite tiresome for the lads there I think.

Will I Am Not

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Soapboxing must be quite frustrating for regular posters in threads.There was a Pardew thing in the Newcastle thread a few years ago which got quite tiresome for the lads there I think.

We had a lad that used to pop into the United thread almost daily to say that Lee Cattermole was the level of player we should be hoping to sign :pac:

blueser

The modding on here is very patchy and hit and miss. I've had warnings for, in my opinion, very little. Fine. If the mods want to rule on here with a rod of iron, so be it. But be consistent about it. I reported a post yesterday evening (not in the soccer forum) for containing a derogatory term that used to be used to call someone stupid. In my opinion, it would certainly be worth of a ban. But I've just checked back and the post is still there and there's no card attached to the post. That's the sort of thing that annoys me; when mods come down hard on some posters, yet others get away with far worse.

Tom Mann Centuria

blueser wrote: »

The modding on here is very patchy and hit and miss. I've had warnings for, in my opinion, very little. Fine. If the mods want to rule on here with a rod of iron, so be it. But be consistent about it. I reported a post yesterday evening (not in the soccer forum) for containing a derogatory term that used to be used to call someone stupid. In my opinion, it would certainly be worth of a ban. But I've just checked back and the post is still there and there's no card attached to the post. That's the sort of thing that annoys me; when mods come down hard on some posters, yet others get away with far worse.

Consistency definitely a thing that would help both the mods and posters. I'm pretty hopeful it'll be the case after this feedback thread and what went before it.

DARK-KNIGHT

Lads can we just not take banter personally?

Sometimes I read through here and some people are acting like snowflakes

We are all fans of football and banter is a big part of it from every teams angle

You have to learn to laugh at your own team sometimes

I agree outright trolling is wrong but come on if no banter here what's the point

I love the forum but you have to have a balance of banter and good debate and discussion

blueser

blueser wrote: »

Without googling it, I would imagine it's preaching. Someone getting up on their soapbox and preaching/lecturing to the great unwashed.

It's a very vague subjective rule that can be applied arbitrarily to simply infract one side in any argument.

osarusan

Donnielighto wrote: »

AIG is a perfect example of the mods not using the above common sense approach to trolling and bans, he was let loose too long despite clear antisocial posting behaviour and pissed off swathes of the the forum. Dealing with issues like the above in a timely manner and implementing bans for trolling behaviour where guys are obvious in their intent would generate a lot of good will imo.

I think this is a good point. AIG annoyed huge number of posters for far too long. Maybe it was the case that the charter (and needing to apply it, or have decisions justifiable to it) was actually hamstringing the mods in his case?

Perhaps there needs to be more of an 'are you more trouble than you're worth?' approach to the forum (and probably boards in general).

Moving away from difficult-to-pinpoint things like low-level trolling vs genuine opinion, and towards the question of whether a poster is consistently adding to or taking away from the quality/enjoyability of the thread/whole forum.

smileyj1987

Would or could a thread ban work ? If someone is hell bent on trolling a thread could you just not them post in that thread at all ? That could be an idea to help make the life of a mod easy.

Tom Mann Centuria

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Would or could a thread ban work ? If someone is hell bent on trolling a thread could you just not them post in that thread at all ? That could be an idea to help make the life of a mod easy.

Yeah, it works.

smileyj1987

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Yeah, it works.

Oh cool i think it could be a tool to make the forum better to stop posters coming in to de rail a thread. Or if it turns into an us vs. them thread.

StringerBell

Donnielighto wrote: »

Tbh I've never really got this. Would my above post be soapboxing? Is it all tldr posts or what?

No soapboxing is a bit different, nothing wrong with your post.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=soapboxing

Soapboxing is a pain in the hole and a reason I've taken a step back from one thread.

StringerBell

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a very vague subjective rule that can be applied arbitrarily to simply infract one side in any argument.

Not really, soapboxing is more about when a subject or point has been done to death and a person refuses to consider any opinion or point made contrary to whatever stand they have decided to take, over and over again with the same thing.

StringerBell

Will I Am Not wrote: »

We had a lad that used to pop into the United thread almost daily to say that Lee Cattermole was the level of player we should be hoping to sign :pac:

Ah but he was great you couldn't fail to smile when he waxed about how a bit of much needed steel would be provided by that Dynamo

bucketybuck

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

some people are acting like snowflakes

Careful, you can get a card for that. Consistency!

To be honest I thought Boards already did thread bans, is it just not done in the soccer forum? "Poster X, do not post in this thread again", I'm sure I've seen that lots of times?

Also, please don't go back to limiting discussions, match thread are horrific and its crazy to stop people discussing games in the superthreads. Deal with the trolls and and let everybody else get on with it.

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

Not really, soapboxing is more about when a subject or point has been done to death and a person refuses to consider any opinion or point made contrary to whatever stand they have decided to take, over and over again with the same thing.

When a subject is done to death, a mod should signal it to both sides. Not side with the more popular opinion.

I completely disagree with the idea that someone must change their opinion or accept points to the contrary.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Careful, you can get a card for that. Consistency!

To be honest I thought Boards already did thread bans, is it just not done in the soccer forum? "Poster X, do not post in this thread again", I'm sure I've seen that lots of times?

Also, please don't go back to limiting discussions, match thread are horrific and its crazy to stop people discussing games in the superthreads. Deal with the trolls and and let everybody else get on with it.

Thread bans are definitely a thing elsewhere that I post. They work very well and I see no cons to them here.

Of course you have to ensure that simply posting something the natives don't agree with and lobby for oubto be thread banned for doesn't become an issue but I'd trust the mods to come to the right decision, maybe a check like needing two mods to agree a thread ban is warranted or something like that.

Food for thought anyway

StringerBell

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When a subject is done to death, a mod should signal it to both sides. Not side with the more popular opinion.

I completely disagree with the idea that someone must change their opinion or accept points to the contrary.

Great, as there is no suggestion anybody must change their opinion.

There doesn't tend to be a side, it is pretty obvious as it will be one or in rare cases two posters, the same ones all the time.

You need to get your head around the fact that it's not an opinion contrary to the "most popular" side that makes it soapboxing.

Mars Bar

I've used thread bans in the Ladies Lounge. It's a useful tool to be honest!

Sure isn't there a thread ban in the humour thread for chat?

Gbear

Deleted User wrote: »

When a subject is done to death, a mod should signal it to both sides. Not side with the more popular opinion.

I completely disagree with the idea that someone must change their opinion or accept points to the contrary.

That might work in Politics where there tend to be a few popular but relatively slow-moving threads, with active mods almost always within those threads so they can moderate in the classical sense like in a debate, but I'd imagine they'd be more reliant on here to reporting, given how quick things move.

You can leave a Superthread after a match on a Saturday afternoon and if you get back on Sunday morning it might have gone 400 posts ahead.
Keeping track of the flow of a conversation within that sounds like a lot of work.

I think rather, if we're going to stop soapboxing, it should essentially be fairly loose and subject to receiving multiple reports and the mod's discretion, because there's not really any bulletproof wording you can put in the charter to deal with it.