Feedback Thread 2018

RobertKK

This is the mod team: Forum Mods: Amirani, dfx-, GavRedKing, Nixonbot, SlickRic, Thanx 4 The Fish, Turtwig
Category Mods: GavRedKing, Mickeroo, Steve

The CL final was the biggest night of the year, where were all these mods on the night?
The site had Mac take a fall for others who were not around to mod, and surely all have to take responsibility for that?
I think the rest got away very lightly in this regard, and have Mac as the sacrificial lamb as a cover for a lack of modding by others.

GavRedKing

astradave wrote: »

Surely that would still be a rule though and it would be actioned accordingly.

As the soccer forum is restricted access the must surely be a database with the users that have access? Maybe a mail shot/pm at the start of the season with the revised charter to all members, then there is no excuse for people not knowing the new charter

Beasty has suggested a streamlining of the charter and its something Id agree with.

If it does happen, I'd post a sticky in the main forum to allow everyone get up to speed with it anyway but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Streamline of the charter is a very broad term though, we'd need some suggestions from the user base about what should go and what should stay, we could discuss with the mods/cmods/admins how comfortable they are with making wide spread changes too.

I dont think anyone would be opposed to it if it makes the forum a better place.

GavRedKing

RobertKK wrote: »

This is the mod team: Forum Mods: Amirani, dfx-, GavRedKing, Nixonbot, SlickRic, Thanx 4 The Fish, Turtwig
Category Mods: GavRedKing, Mickeroo, Steve

The CL final was the biggest night of the year, where were all these mods on the night?
The site had Mac take a fall for others who were not around to mod, and surely all have to take responsibility for that?
I think the rest got away very lightly in this regard, and have Mac as the sacrificial lamb as a cover for a lack of modding by others.

I was online and reported a good lot of posts at the time.

I think I also carded one or two but on the phone its a PITA, I didnt have access to a laptop, I was up in herselfs place and her laptop was acting up.

Not trying to absolve myself of any blame but if I cant mod, I actively report posts across the forum as I see them pop up.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

GavRedKing wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for opening the forum for the upcoming WC, its been done for Euros and WCs in the past.

I know recently someone said it would be a bad idea but now is the time to speak about it.

There are going to be Russian paid trolls all over the internet this summer. It happened in the Euros too, but it will be ramped up tenfold this time round.

Skylinehead

RobertKK wrote: »

This is the mod team: Forum Mods: Amirani, dfx-, GavRedKing, Nixonbot, SlickRic, Thanx 4 The Fish, Turtwig
Category Mods: GavRedKing, Mickeroo, Steve

The CL final was the biggest night of the year, where were all these mods on the night?
The site had Mac take a fall for others who were not around to mod, and surely all have to take responsibility for that?
I think the rest got away very lightly in this regard, and have Mac as the sacrificial lamb as a cover for a lack of modding by others.

I was at a family dinner, and I make no apologies for being there instead of here. I don't serve at your whim.

McMac took a fall because of his own failings, that's a ridiculous point to make.

GavRedKing

Joy Fat Pie wrote: »

There are going to be Russian paid trolls all over the internet this summer. It happened in the Euros too, but it will be ramped up tenfold this time round.

That was mentioned before, I honestly cant remember any at the time.

Most of the re-regs we found were people that were banned from soccer already or were currently serving bans but were posting under accounts just for the WC.

GavRedKing

Nixonbot wrote: »

I was at a family dinner, and I make no apologies for being there instead of here. I don't serve at your whim.

McMac took a fall because of his own failings, that's a ridiculous point to make.

I had a communion mass/dinner/family gathering until 7pm actually, how did I forget that.

Tom Mann Centuria

Joy Fat Pie wrote: »

There are going to be Russian paid trolls all over the internet this summer. It happened in the Euros too, but it will be ramped up tenfold this time round.

Agreed, Euros were a total mess because of new posters imo.

RobertKK

GavRedKing wrote: »

I was online and reported a good lot of posts at the time.

I think I also carded one or two but on the phone its a PITA, I didnt have access to a laptop, I was up in herselfs place and her laptop was acting up.

Not trying to absolve myself of any blame but if I cant mod, I actively report posts across the forum as I see them pop up.

That is good, and no complaints with that.

RasTa

Nixonbot wrote: »

I was at a family dinner, and I make no apologies for being there instead of here. I don't serve at your whim.

McMac took a fall because of his own failings, that's a ridiculous point to make.

Which were? I seen him post about Klopp being a serial loser which set them off but was there anything else.

Do agree that mods don't need to be around on a big night if they have other plans etc

pjohnson

I thought blueser was a mod for some reason.

But yeah on a night like that it seemed very short staffed...might have been no harm tryna draft in support.

RobertKK

Nixonbot wrote: »

I was at a family dinner, and I make no apologies for being there instead of here. I don't serve at your whim.

McMac took a fall because of his own failings, that's a ridiculous point to make.

So Mac would have done better if as a mod he didn't bother with the modding bit or the forum on what was always going to be a busy night on the forum?

adox

Beasty wrote: »

On the specifics of the CL final, I will readily admit I have not seen the match. I was on a ferry keeping up to date with what was going on by logging on here. Since then I've been busy with my own sports activities and work, only getting back to Dublin in the early hours of this morning

Clearly the events of the past coupe of weeks have contributed to further polarisation of the forum. United and Liverpool both losing finals in quick succession was always going to result in problems. I have little doubt some of the mods were more focussed on the match than trying to deal with the escalating issues here on Saturday. Modding that sort of stuff real-time is always going to be very difficult no matter how many mods you have. However I will just throw in a couple of stats to highlight how active the Soccer mods have been. There were around 120 posts in the Soccer Forum reported in the 48 hours or so from the start of the match. In the same period about 65 cards were handed out by the mods (I don't have any figures for bans to hand). You may not have seen all of that at the time, as he threads were obviously moving on very rapidly and the mods had some catching up to do.

It may be that they have missed some actionable posts. In the context of those figures I would not be at all surprised. If anyone feels something still needs dealing with please report it rather than trying to get your message across here

The thing is, most of this went on after the match was over. Even if they couldnt mod the thread in real time( I found it astonishing as a reader of the thread and a long time boards user that the thread could be allowed to spiral so out of control without at least being locked before it was reviewed. I never remember such a free for all in any thread allowed before) thats not really an excuse and what is being questioned. Most if not all of the cards were handed out retrospectively. They were all yellow cards! How could any mod read all those comments and decide to only hand out yellows for all of them?? Even handing out yellows for a couple of them would have raised questions by any reasonable posters?

You have instructed not to comment on the de-modding so i wont make my feelings clear on it. What I will say on the handling of the aftermath on the Liverpool thread and personal abuse handed out to Mick and said mod was nothing short of disgraceful as was the handling of these insults and the thread by the mods and the admins.

You still also havent asked the simple question at the start of this feedback thread by Buckety as to why these posts werent actioned as reds,as per the charter.

The context has nothing to do with it in any way, as others have suggested. You lost control completely of the thread and it turned into anarchy. You then appeased the same posters and some of them got a very light slap on the wrist for their collective frothing at the mouth.

It leaves an awful taste in the mouth and leaves me a bit perplexed as to what your motives may be for such inexplicable(or lack of) actions.

GavRedKing

RobertKK wrote: »

That is good, and no complaints with that.

I'll be the first to admit, must of my boards time now a days is done sitting at the work PC (like right now) Mon - Fri 8.30 - 5.30, like a proper grown up.

If I'm on during the weekend its probably down to playing Football Manager on the PC or I'm browsing on the phone, if its the latter, I dont do much modding as its near impossible on the mobile and sometimes easier to report posts.

We could possibly be more active and transparent to the forum but its a tough enough gig at the best times and not everyone has the time to be online, even at weekends.

Skylinehead

RasTa wrote: »

Which were? I seen him post about Klopp being a serial loser which set them off but was there anything else.

Do agree that mods don't need to be around on a big night if they have other plans etc

Admin call. I honestly don't know every detail, or whether I should discuss what I do know.

RobertKK wrote: »

So Mac would have done better if as a mod he didn't bother with the modding bit or the forum on what was always going to be a busy night on the forum?

I actually don't know what you're trying to say here. Users are responsible for their own posts, mods or not.

GavRedKing

pjohnson wrote: »

I thought blueser was a mod for some reason.

But yeah on a night like that it seemed very short staffed...might have been no harm tryna draft in support.

With Mac going, we'll probably have to look to adding a new face or two but this isnt really the place for it, other to say it will be under consideration but can often take time trying to find the right candidate(s).

HONKEY TONK

GavRedKing wrote: »

Beasty has suggested a streamlining of the charter and its something Id agree with.

If it does happen, I'd post a sticky in the main forum to allow everyone get up to speed with it anyway but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Streamline of the charter is a very broad term though, we'd need some suggestions from the user base about what should go and what should stay, we could discuss with the mods/cmods/admins how comfortable they are with making wide spread changes too.

I dont think anyone would be opposed to it if it makes the forum a better place.

Do you not think the Mods and Admins need to set up there own Guidelines first?

The Charter is useless if Mods have there own interpretations of a Charter.

Step1 - Mods and Admins set up an agreed guideline on Moderation.

Step2 - Create a Charter based on What Mods and Admins will or wont Tolerate.

IF Posters see that Moderation is consistent. Then people will follow the rules.

Trigger

I’ve no problem with the modding numbers and also the mods there, the majority are very active. Sometimes personal life comes first. Even with regards to the Liverpool supporting mods, I know that I probably wouldn’t really be on boards if United where in the CL final, I’d probably be out to watch it, so that can be excused.

My main gripe is that the level of abuse that has gone relatively unpunished. I don’t agree that a yellow is sufficient in these cases and the charter should be implemented

Lord TSC

Nixon, I believe Robert's point is Mac would have been better served not bothering his ass to mod on Saturday. If he had just left the board unmoderated, he probably would still be a mod....

RasTa wrote: »

Do agree that mods don't need to be around on a big night if they have other plans etc

Just on this.

I do believe since its a voluntary position, that mods don't need to be on 24/7, even if there's a massive game. Real life comes before the nightmare that is modding a Pool or United thread after a bad loss.

So if there weren't a load of mods on, so be it.

Now, I'll add...my understanding, currently, is that Mac and Gav were the ones running the ship on Saturday night. And that when **** kicked off, Mac took a bit of a step back, because as the subject of the abuse, he shouldn't have had to be modding it. Fair play if the Pool mods stepped away and decided to enjoy the game as fans, cause I've been there with big United games where I didn't want to "ruin" the experience.

However, if I had come back, be it post match or the morning after, and found United posters leveling the abuse at a Pool supporting mod like we saw there, I damn sure would have made sure it got shut down quicker, through stern in thread warnings and/or issuing red cards and bans as necessary. Again, it appears as if some mods DID come back online after the match, and rather than shut down the chaos, actively turned around and chose to ignore it entirely.

(Stressing Beasty, this post isn't about Mac; it's feedback about how the mess was handled with regards mods and punishments to users who broke charter).

From the outside looking in, it certainly feels that there was a reluctance to punish the posters who felt attacked by mod, and then inevitably when punishments were dished out way later than they should have been, it was decided to let them be very, very easy punishments given out.....

There's zero point in talking about adjusting the charter, re-writing it, if there's not actually any desire to enforce it when things break down epicly.

Nixonbot

Nixonbot wrote: »

I was at a family dinner, and I make no apologies for being there instead of here. I don't serve at your whim.

McMac took a fall because of his own failings, that's a ridiculous point to make.

I think people forget you are volunteers after all. Hard to know where to go with this tbh. Overbloat the charter, and the amateur lawyers saturate disputes resolution. Scrap the charter and have a Thunderdome equivalent? Nah, can't see that being very workable either. Tweak what we have now? Probably.

Skylinehead

Lord TSC wrote: »

Nixon, I believe Robert's point is Mac would have been better served not bothering his ass to mod on Saturday. If he had just left the board unmoderated, he probably would still be a mod....

But it wasn't even him modding that kicked it all off, it was a "standard" post

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

why doesn't someone answer the question as to why outright abuse, like calling someone a paedo, wasn't a red card offence.

There is no "context" to that, calling someone a paedo is fairly reprehensible behaviour.

pjohnson

GavRedKing wrote: »

With Mac going, we'll probably have to look to adding a new face or two but this isnt really the place for it, other to say it will be under consideration but can often take time trying to find the right candidate(s).

Obviously but I meant in general you guys must have a shared staff area where ye (soccer mods) communicate? If ye knew there was gunna be shag all soccer mods around for a match like that ye could have drafted in some form of temp mods to stop shít really spiralling during that period. Not with full mod powers obviously but just the basics and a few general rules until ye were able to then properly review the actions required. Be they regulars here or imported mods from Rugby/GAA (whatever boards software allows I gather its quite limiting) just to prevent a absolute cesspit forming.

I mean all mods on any forum have IRL commitments but for a match like that surely there would be some moderator plan put in place?

DM_7

pjohnson wrote: »

I thought blueser was a mod for some reason.

But yeah on a night like that it seemed very short staffed...might have been no harm tryna draft in support.

Everyone needed to be reminded, in advance, that they should report posts, do not react, ott reactions will be treated the same as the posts made to get a rise.

Mods for such a big event beed to be prepared. Even if that meant one ot two people with a massive task online but with an agreed plan for what to do on the night (warnings/cards/locking threads etc).

For the first part to work, the forum should work like that everyday though. I don't think it does, not when a team loses, we all see that in Superthreads where a poster is never there before a game or after a good result, they appear after a bad one with their 'input'.

It may not be liked, but people only interested in discussing negative things about a club are disruptive and acting as a WUM to the everyday contributers to that superthread.

Harry Palmr

I'm struck by how, no matter the number of mods listed when it comes to "the big game" there is a shortage of oversight

Games like Liverpool v Man Utd, a CL/EL final with a PL team in it and so on those occasions when you know traffic will be heavy and some tribe or other will be very angry and another very happy for the same reason there's often hardly a moderating soul to be seen.

I know real life, whatever that is comes first but if you know what's scheduled for say May 26th then the admins better make sure they are ready one way or another.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

Overbloat the charter, and the amateur lawyers saturate disputes resolution. Scrap the charter and have a Thunderdome equivalent?

Or stop deflecting and pretending that anybody had a problem with the charter or asked for it to be changed, and instead answer the question that was asked.

osarusan

I wouldn't hold any volunteer even slightly to account for not being on boards on the night, tbh.

Only paid staff could be reasonably expected to do that.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I'm struck by how, no matter the number of mods listed when it comes to "the big game" there is a shortage of oversight

Games like Liverpool v Man Utd, a CL/EL final with a PL team in it and so on those occasions when you know traffic will be heavy and some tribe or other will be very angry and another very happy for the same reason there's often hardly a moderating soul to be seen.

I know real life, whatever that is comes first but if you know what's scheduled for say May 26th then the admins better make sure they are ready one way or another.

I don't in generally know who a Mod supports, but maybe not appoint Mods from busy thread clubs, or even not of soccer fans at all. You don't need to follow soccer to moderate

Skylinehead

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't in generally know who a Mod supports, but maybe not appoint Mods from busy thread clubs, or even not of soccer fans at all. You don't need to follow soccer to moderate

In practice, you do. No sane person is going to want to mod a forum like Soccer unless they have interest in it.

How Soon Is Now

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't in generally know who a Mod supports, but maybe not appoint Mods from busy thread clubs, or even not of soccer fans at all. You don't need to follow soccer to moderate

Ya I think at least half the team should be neutral that way there's no "ah here he supports them" **** to use against people.

I mean would you have a Irish ref looking after an Irish match? Knowing full well he would be blamed if anything went in there favour.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Or stop deflecting and pretending that anybody had a problem with the charter or asked for it to be changed, and instead answer the question that was asked.

I gave an answer.

pjohnson

I was thinking have a automatic "moderator" account that sends the PM's out. That way the user can't know WHO took action.

But again I dunno if this is feasible on this website.

GavRedKing

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't in generally know who a Mod supports, but maybe not appoint Mods from busy thread clubs, or even not of soccer fans at all. You don't need to follow soccer to moderate

Good point, well made.

Its something to consider for future mods too.

Beasty

adox wrote: »

You still also havent asked the simple question at the start of this feedback thread by Buckety as to why these posts werent actioned as reds,as per the charter.

I'll repeat what I said earlier. I was on a ferry. I am not a mod of Soccer. I have seen 65 cards (yellows and reds) were handed out in the forum during the 48 hours from the start of the match. I don't know how many bans were imposed. If you think anything has been missed please report it

RasTa

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I'm struck by how, no matter the number of mods listed when it comes to "the big game" there is a shortage of oversight

Games like Liverpool v Man Utd, a CL/EL final with a PL team in it and so on those occasions when you know traffic will be heavy and some tribe or other will be very angry and another very happy for the same reason there's often hardly a moderating soul to be seen.

I know real life, whatever that is comes first but if you know what's scheduled for say May 26th then the admins better make sure they are ready one way or another.

Maybe you can pay your favourite mod or admin to be working that night

Cantona's Collars

Funny how the lads that caused the hassle aren't around to justify what went on. (The ones that are banned being the exception of course)

We've seen more 'minor match threads' being locked for less than what went on Saturday.
I think it was Harry Palmr that hit the nail on the head,this was a massive game and a result either way would have led to hassle yet only a couple of mods were left to try to control things.

Trigger

pjohnson wrote: »

I was thinking have a automatic "moderator" account that sends the PM's out. That way the user can't know WHO took action.

But again I dunno if this is feasible on this website.

Of course it is, set up an account, give moderator privileges, password to mods/c mods/admins.. change password whenever there is a change in the mod team

jayo26

Having read through most of this thread it's something I'm not going to overly engage in because I feel the way it's set up it is going to be a waste of time but I have a few little opinions that I will make on the odd chance that someone does actually want to take notice.

First of all I have no problems whatsoever with gentle banter it goes on in the threads all the time and indeed I think slicric does get involved in it and he does it in a decent way he doesn't go over the top I've no problems with it I have often felt someone came into United thread for wrong reason and I may make a comment but it's never a personal attack.

With MrMac84 the other night if he wasn't a mod np one would of said anything to him he responded to a poster saying he was happy in the direction that Liverpool were going under klopp MrMac84 bluntly pointed out that klopp wasn't faultless and was indeed a serial looser of finals.

It's worth nothing that before MrMac84 went near the pool thread the other night the posters were already calling Ramos scumbag and horrible cun*t among other things and even tho he is a player and he cant read boards this is considered trolling by law and it's clear that the thread had descended into a free for all before he even post there.

If in any other walk of life MrMac84 had of received the abuse he did on here there would be complaints at a very high level it can not be acceptable in any form of society.

If MrMac84 broke rules then fair enough he deserves to go but the posters that abused him broke even worse rules and were allowed to carry on and received a punishment of a yellow card that means nothing as they will be not counted from the end of season rolling over in to the next.

I would like an explanation as to why something so abusive and serious was allowed go with very little punishment.

Beasty

pjohnson wrote: »

I was thinking have a automatic "moderator" account that sends the PM's out. That way the user can't know WHO took action.

But again I dunno if this is feasible on this website.

That's one for the Site Development or Feedback forums. Can't imagine they have much resource to implement much in the way of programming changes given other site priorities though

pjohnson

astradave wrote: »

Of course it is, set up an account, give moderator privileges, password to mods/c mods/admins.. change password whenever there is a change in the mod team

Ah yes a new account. That'd do it haha. I was tryna go automated route for no reason haha.

Trigger

RasTa wrote: »

Maybe you can pay your favourite mod or admin to be working that night

In coke and hookers?

Trigger

pjohnson wrote: »

Ah yes a new account. That'd do it haha. I was tryna go automated route for no reason haha.

You could have 2/3 so that different mods can action posts at the same time

pjohnson

Beasty wrote: »

That's one for the Site Development or Feedback forums. Can't imagine they have much resource to implement much in the way of programming changes given other site priorities though

Astradave has an easier non automated solution above.

Necro

astradave wrote:

Of course it is, set up an account, give moderator privileges, password to mods/c mods/admins.. change password whenever there is a change in the mod team

We have a couple of those over in Forum Games actually for modding some of the games we play there.

Now granted they mod the games as opposed to boards itself, but it does work well. Gives a nice uniform look to the games as well.

Boom_Bap

Nixonbot wrote: »

In practice, you do. No sane person is going to want to mod a forum like Soccer unless they have interest in it.

Well, first things first, it's called Football, not Soccer. :pac:

Trigger

Necrominus wrote: »

We have a couple of those over in Forum Games actually for modding some of the games we play there.

Now granted they mod the games as opposed to boards itself, but it does work well. Gives a nice uniform look to the games as well.

I do think it would make this forum run a lot smoother as people wouldn’t be able to cry moderator bias due to which team they support. I’ve seen them in the forum games and they seem to run smoothly. Though I haven’t played just lurk

Agent Coulson

GavRedKing wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for opening the forum for the upcoming WC, its been done for Euros and WCs in the past.

I know recently someone said it would be a bad idea but now is the time to speak about it.

I do think it should be opened for those that enjoy the spectacle of the World Cup without being major football fans and more importantly they can add to the World Cup Hottie Thread.


The open forum for the last Euro's and World Cup seemed to run ok.


Also some fresh voices might just be what the forum needs in a positive way.

I also now that could backfire as well.

adox

Beasty wrote: »

I'll repeat what I said earlier. I was on a ferry. I am not a mod of Soccer. I have seen 65 cards (yellows and reds) were handed out in the forum during the 48 hours from the start of the match. I don't know how many bans were imposed. If you think anything has been missed please report it

When I said "you" I meant the powers that be connected to boards, not you specifically. I`m taking about the site and the people who run and moderate it.

I reported plenty of posts on that thread which, if actioned were given yellow cards.

The question has been asked a few times why they were only deemed yellows when they were such clear cut reds? I can only re[port the posts and then wait until this (delayed!) feedback thread is opened to question them further. Its also a generally enquiry as to how the thread was allowed to run unabated.

Have you actually read the thread because I find it peculiar that you would ask me to point out stuff that I think may have been missed if you have.

Can the mods who handed out the yellows not explain why they were only yellows?

Its a question for those who moderated that thread on that timeline and also for the site itself in the way it allowed it to be handled.

Necro

astradave wrote:

I do think it would make this forum run a lot smoother as people wouldn’t be able to cry moderator bias due to which team they support. I’ve seen them in the forum games and they seem to run smoothly. Though I haven’t played just lurk

Lol, I ain't going shilling on the SF feedback thread :pac:

I actually think it's a top class idea. It's one you could use all across the divisive forums such as here and Politics for example, removes the crying of mod bias for decisions.

bucketybuck

Beasty wrote: »

I don't know how many bans were imposed. If you think anything has been missed please report it

Nobody asked how many bans were handed out, I asked a very straightforward question in post 5 of this thread.

Multiple clear and obvious examples of personal abuse were posted in a thread. Eventually a mod came along and handed out yellow cards for these posts, when the charter is very specific that such abuse is a red card offence.

I don't want anybody to action those posts again, I simply want to know why the mods decided that calling other users cunts, scumbags and peados were only yellow card offences?

I want to know this because there are some very obvious implications of such a decision.