Feedback Thread 2018

bucketybuck

billymitchell wrote: »

How often do you see supporters of Man United or Liverpool going into the others superthreads and it not get antagonistic?

Every day? I've regularly seen Liverpool fans in the United thread.

More pertinently I would bet that there were dozens of Liverpool fans who posted and I never even knew they were Liverpool fans at all, because outside of a core group of idiots most people are not walking around with Liverpool or United badges on their foreheads. They are just people who post an opinion.

Deal with the troublemakers, deal with the infractions, don't assume everybody wants anything to do with all that ****e.

TitianGerm

billymitchell wrote: »

How often do you see supporters of Man United or Liverpool going into the others superthreads and it not get antagonistic? I've been on here for years, and am yet to see any debate in the Liverpool thread(I mostly view that thread) by a man United fan that hasn't got the "locals" wound up or them thinking there is an agenda. It's not right, but I don't see much effort being made by the locals to just engage in conversation with a football fan,rather them being seen as a fan of the "opposition" so they must be here on a wind up.

Your post is nonsense.

Astradave has been in a few times since yesterday discussing Fabhino and Keeper choices. Jayop used to be in a lot as well. There's loads of the United who post in the Liverpool thread.

Lord TSC

Steve wrote: »

You know well we cannot divulge anything from the mod forum, I'm actually surprised and disappointed that you, as a current mod, actually asked that question.

Yes, there was scant mod coverage for the event, that's apparent. What else can I say?

Just one more thing,

"Did the mods who dealt the yellows simply do it on their own accord?"

Of course they did, just like you did when you were a mod here.

Steve, I've asked the question because by and large, this feedback thread has been ignored all day.

And you're disappointed and surprised at me? Those two words are utterly minor compared to the ones I would use to describe the handling of events of the last few days, not just with mods but with the admins involved as well.

When i stepped down, I largely kept my main concerns to myself. But the manner in which Mac has been treated, and how this weekend was handled, has left me far beyond "disappointed". Angry and disgusted would be far closer right now. That you're "surprised" by my responses today should be a big signal to you about just how frustrated I am about this.

I'm not asking for you to disclose stuff from the mod forum. I'm trying to point out the poor handling of this situation. I asked those questions because they are obviously self-evident. Since Saturday night, I'm presuming there's been plenty of discussion behind the scenes on this. Even the manner in which this thread was delayed twice (Monday to Wednesday morning, and then again to Wednesday afternoon) meant you guys KNEW what the main complaint would be. And rather than dealing with it, the complaint has largely been utterly ignored.

The question has been asked repeatedly today; why was such vile, horrid abuse let go for so long, beyond a reasonable "no one was online" period, only for the resulting punishments to be laughable considering the posts involved? After all the presumed discussion about what happened, how did the mods involved decide that calling people sex offenders and the likes only warranted yellows, the same as people calling others snowflakes?

If the feedback thread is meant to generate discussions on how the mods are running the site, how is it that despite days to prepare, no one has figured out a proper answer to that question? Unless, of course, the answer is one that everyone knows will cause more problems....

billymitchell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Every day? I've regularly seen Liverpool fans in the United thread.

More pertinently I would bet that there were dozens of Liverpool fans who posted and I never even knew they were Liverpool fans at all, because outside of a core group of idiots most people are not walking around with Liverpool or United badges on their foreheads. They are just people who post an opinion.

Deal with the troublemakers, deal with the infractions, don't assume everybody wants anything to do with all that ****e.

I'm not saying everybody does, but there are strong characters in both threads who can take over and dictate the tone, and ruin it for others.
I'd love for us all to have mature debates about football, but when it comes to United and Liverpool fans on this forum, I'm yet to be convinced it can happen, without a few ruining it for everybody else.

Steve

bucketybuck wrote: »

(Of course, the real question was actually asked in post 5 of this thread, but its clear no answer will be given there).

Basically the answer to that is the mod/cmod team collectively made a fcuk up there and we will hold our hands up to that.

bucketybuck wrote: »

my concern continues to be what the mods did when they actually did get around to reviewing the posts in question.

I am also concerned about this - and will discuss it with them.

Whatever is discussed will, however, be in the mod forum and stay between the mods and cmods / admins.

Discodog

Soccer has lost two of its best Mods. Lord & Mac were exceptional & I say this as someone not known for praising Boards Mods.

There was a crazy decision, now revoked, to ban match discussion in the superthreads. I think that matches should mimic the real situation. Supporters are separated. You should be able to post, in your team forum, without wind ups from opposition supporters.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Some posters are thanks whores, and they delight in a bit of bantz esp if it gets them plenty of virtual back-slaps typically on a match thread when winding up the supporters of the team that just lost.

Like this? I could pick out a dozens in one match thread.
Ironically you thanked it!

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107039851&postcount=285

MD1990

Just reading some responses.

Mods seem to have a huge ego for whatever reason. Any criticism is met with a very condescending attitude imo.

Drumpot

billymitchell wrote: »

I'm not saying everybody does, but there are strong characters in both threads who can take over and dictate the tone, and ruin it for others.
I'd love for us all to have mature debates about football, but when it comes to United and Liverpool fans on this forum, I'm yet to be convinced it can happen, without a few ruining it for everybody else.

Do you think any of the toxic culture that exists in the forum is possibly influenced by those applying the rules in a manner that’s not completely clear to a significant portion of its members?

Will I Am Not

fatherted1969 wrote: »

It's one thing to get annoyed by a comment but reading some of these posts I've only come to realise that some posters check the thanks of other posters and get annoyed by not a comment but a click of a thanks button. Jaysus I didn't realise things were that bad with some people

Nothing new there. A United poster (doesn’t post here anymore) told me he was asked to stop thanking so many posts by a mod after a few lads went complaining about him.

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

Just reading some responses.

Mods seem to have a huge ego for whatever reason. Any criticism is met with a very condescending attitude imo.

Your questioning attitudes on the thread?

You have been given clear evidence that everything you have posted is wrong.

And to top it off you think I deserved that abuse Saturday night.

Steve

Lord TSC wrote: »

Steve, I've asked the question because by and large, this feedback thread has been ignored all day.

There are a lot of eyes on this thread. It is not being ignored.

I'm not asking for you to disclose stuff from the mod forum. I'm trying to point out the poor handling of this situation. I asked those questions because they are obviously self-evident. Since Saturday night, I'm presuming there's been plenty of discussion behind the scenes on this. Even the manner in which this thread was delayed twice (Monday to Wednesday morning, and then again to Wednesday afternoon) meant you guys KNEW what the main complaint would be. And rather than dealing with it, the complaint has largely been utterly ignored.

The delay was of foot of an admin direction not to open it, yes we (cmods) were aware of the conflicts that would arise and were told (cmods and mods) that all discussion was to be directed to them. That position still stands.

The question has been asked repeatedly today; why was such vile, horrid abuse let go for so long, beyond a reasonable "no one was online" period, only for the resulting punishments to be laughable considering the posts involved? After all the presumed discussion about what happened, how did the mods involved decide that calling people sex offenders and the likes only warranted yellows, the same as people calling others snowflakes?

I can only apologise on behalf of the sports category that it happened, after that I will certainly investigate why and try to pass on to the SF mods (that, by the way, outclass me in every conceivable way on running a soccer forum) any experience that I have so that it can be better dealt with in future.

billymitchell

Drumpot wrote: »

Do you think any of the toxic culture that exists in the forum is possibly influenced by those applying the rules in a manner that’s not completely clear to a significant portion of its members?

Everybody is responsible for the culture, not just the mods. Let's not put all this on the mods, they just try make sure people obey the rules. There is plenty of scope to cause issues within the forum by people operating within the rules.

Steve

MD1990 wrote: »

Just reading some responses.

Mods seem to have a huge ego for whatever reason. Any criticism is met with a very condescending attitude imo.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Your questioning attitudes on the thread?

You have been given clear evidence that everything you have posted is wrong.

And to top it off you think I deserved that abuse Saturday night.

Give it a break, this is not the place.

That's not a suggestion BTW.

TheDoc

MD1990 wrote: »

Just reading some responses.

Mods seem to have a huge ego for whatever reason. Any criticism is met with a very condescending attitude imo.

That can come across in many other forums too. I’ve come across deplorable mods on boards and to be fair I don’t think I’ve any real rating or incling to the soccer ones. And thats s good thing. They ideally go about their business unnoticed.

But as someone who has modded other forums , modded some decent trafficed subreddits and owned decent trafficked forums think for a second what these volunteers do.

They engage as much as they can of their own time to give out to people, mostly adults, calling each other every name under the sun. Because they can’t be trusted to be left to their own devices and to behave.

I’m used to it from so long but I can fully appreciate mods getting short when being asked why they weren’t all over this on Saturday night or Sunday morning.

“Hold on till I ditch my Saturday night and Sunday lie in to throw slaps around to a bunch of adults calling others pedos”

At the same time it’s now Wednesday. The posters who made those comments I assume are permabanned from the forum if not site banned. And if not, that’s ludicrous modding. Like I said , I’ve seen stakeholders shut down entire forums temporarily for less.

Especially as the top dogs became more concerned with legal threats and them being held liable for content hosted on the platform, even when made by just posters.

Skylinehead

Steve wrote: »

Give it a break, this is not the place.

That's not a suggestion BTW.

Deleted a post after this continuing, benefit of the doubt.

Skylinehead

TheDoc wrote: »

At the same time it’s now Wednesday. The posters who made those comments I assume are permabanned from the forum if not site banned. And if not, that’s ludicrous modding. Like I said , I’ve seen stakeholders shut down entire forums temporarily for less.

They have been.

Harry Palmr

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Like this? I could pick out a dozens in one match thread.
Ironically you thanked it!

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107039851&postcount=285

Sure, I thought it was quite a good post as it referenced something we all knew would happen if the circumstances allowed - and it did. Esp bearing in mind how the chit chat re CL final was full of Utd heads predicting/praying for "Ronnie" to win for for Man Utd.

Drumpot

billymitchell wrote: »

Everybody is responsible for the culture, not just the mods. Let's not put all this on the mods, they just try make sure people obey the rules. There is plenty of scope to cause issues within the forum by people operating within the rules.

I agree completely. But this hasn't just happened out of the blue, it's been simmering for a long time and little to nothing has been done to address it.

DM_7

Not sure if anyone can make out action points in what the thread has become but I do think it would be helpful if people could suggest an improvement over just venting.

One thing I think needs to happen is the mods do need to check out who is available on big occasions like Saturday and regardless of how many can do a full job, have an agreed plan on the best approach.

Based on the many opinons about interactions among fans in Super Threads I think the don't be a dick rule needs to be enforced.

If posters on the threads could report instead of react to such poats it would largely go away. A high percentage of posters are regulars so individuals need to take some responsibility for helping the problem they see on their thread go away (by not engaging).

Tom.D.BJJ

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Feedback: Please clarify the rules for thread titles, and if/why it only applies to the soccer forum.

There were a lot of lies and fake excuses used when that was implemented. The rugby forum on the other hand has great thread titles for the Leinster/Munster/Ulster/Connacht season threads.

Any answer on this?

Skylinehead

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Any answer on this?

I actually don't know the rule you're referring to

bucketybuck

DM_7 wrote: »

Not sure if anyone can make out action points in what the thread has become but I do think it would be helpful if people could suggest an improvement over just venting.

Identify biased moderation and take steps to ensure that all infractions are treated appropriately regardless of what thread it is and what mod is monitoring it. Perhaps identify some checks and balances to ensure mods aren't drawn into any of the "them and us" mindsets.

The "don't be a jerk" rule wouldn't have changed anything, the rules were clear to begin with, seems to me the issue was how they were applied and the reasons behind that.

deaddonkey15

DM_7 wrote: »

Not sure if anyone can make out action points in what the thread has become but I do think it would be helpful if people could suggest an improvement over just venting.

One thing I think needs to happen is the mods do need to check out who is available on big occasions like Saturday and regardless of how many can do a full job, have an agreed plan on the best approach.

Based on the many opinons about interactions among fans in Super Threads I think the don't be a dick rule needs to be enforced.

If posters on the threads could report instead of react to such poats it would largely go away. A high percentage of posters are regulars so individuals need to take some responsibility for helping the problem they see on their thread go away (by not engaging).

I really don't think this is necessary. It's unfair on the mods and reflects very poorly on the users of this forum. There should however be appropriate retrospective punishments that suit the seriousness of the transgression given out by the mods when they are available. Consequently calling someone a sex offender would receive a more severe punishment than calling someone a snowflake.

I think the mods should use the Liverpool thread incident as a watershed moment, and a guideline with which the charter can be updated and hopefully properly enforced.

Trigger

Nixonbot wrote: »

I actually don't know the rule you're referring to

I think last season there were talks in the United thread anyways to have a name for the thread that wasn’t just the standard “Man Utd superthread” etc basically the users were deciding on a name for the thread, it was changed but then changed back a day or two later and the clarification was that all superthreads must have a standard name.

I don’t think there is actually a rule concerning it, more that the names picked would probably be borderline Wumming. One of the names suggested was man united superthread 20-18(in fairness I suggested it )It was all just a bit of fun, but you can actually see where the mods are coming from especially after this season on the forum

Fromvert

Lol at the idea of mods being required to be online for big games just in case a group of 30+ year old men call each other or professional football players/managers names! Just digest that idea. If it becomes a **** show they can hand out bans when back online and there should have been after the **** that was posted Saturday.

In general the forum is modded fine but sometimes it's a little too strict for my liking.

Steve

I have seen the term Wumming being used here, I am not a soccer fan, I don't understand the context of it in terms of this forum.
Can someone please post or pm me what this means.

Trigger

Steve wrote: »

I have seen the term Wumming being used here, I am not a soccer fan, I don't understand the context of it in terms of this forum.
Can someone please post or pm me what this means.

A WUM is a wind up merchant so it’s basically a play on that.. so someone winding up the forum

How Soon Is Now

Steve wrote: »

I have seen the term Wumming being used here, I am not a soccer fan, I don't understand the context of it in terms of this forum.
Can someone please post or pm me what this means.

Wind up merchant.

Steve

TYVM

StringerBell

As a suggestion for improvement, I would like to see a more firm hand from the moderators. Strict enforcement of the charter, to get things back on track at the least.

Try it for a season and review it.

There is no silver bullet but something needs to be done and standards need to be set and kept.
A system of checks and balances is certainly something to be considered to dispel any notion of bias

Arghus

After reading the thread the only pertinent point I can think to make is: life is easier if you don't support either United or Liverpool.

DARK-KNIGHT

Mick is an absolute hero IMO

Deserves an apology for his treatment on Saturday night

Moist Bread

Sometimes I feel like I am taking my life into my own hands posting on here. Especially in the Liverpool thread, they are out to get me and it's difficult to stand tall in the face of their haressment. They call me a troll, call me mentally ill among other things. There is a tight knit group that will attack people in force at the drop of a hat. They are well organised and will move to shut down people that have opinions that differ to their own. There is no discussion, only derision, anger and hate.

DARK-KNIGHT

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Mick is an absolute hero IMO

Deserves an apology for his treatment on Saturday night

Moist Bread wrote: »

Sometimes I feel like I am taking my life into my own hands posting on here.

Erect a statue for Mick, appoint a bodyguard for Moist Bread, and wind up this feedback thread which is evidently lurching into the ridiculous...

There's clearly very obvious trolls in the forum. I'm sure the mods know them too, and the Cmods.

Why not get rid of them?

Moist Bread

Why not get rid of the people shutting down discussion?

AidoEirE

Moist Bread wrote: »

Sometimes I feel like I am taking my life into my own hands posting on here. Especially in the Liverpool thread, they are out to get me and it's difficult to stand tall in the face of their haressment. They call me a troll, call me mentally ill among other things. There is a tight knit group that will attack people in force at the drop of a hat. They are well organised and will move to shut down people that have opinions that differ to their own. There is no discussion, only derision, anger and hate.

Funny how you left out, being called a nonce and a peado, because thats a step to far but keep going. Im sure there is some smart ass insults you missed in that post

Moist Bread

AidoEirE wrote: »

Funny how you left out, being called a nonce and a peado, because thats a step to far but keep going. Im sure there is some smart ass insults you missed in that post

I don't understand your angle. I just was talking about my experiences and the vitriol that was posted my way. I have heard they have said much worse to Mick and others. I condemn any personal attack like nonce and peado. There should be no place for that in a forum of any kind.

AidoEirE

Moist Bread wrote: »

Why not get rid of the people shutting down discussion?

Why dont people take actions for their posts as individuals as they post them, instead of this group montage **** going on

One im mrmac had been recinded, plenty should of got a site ban
Others got called names without being within the converaation of the thread and **** all action taken till its to late.

This is about respect to people, be a damn sight straight any one of either thread calling names like that face to face outside of a keyboard setting.
Grow the **** up

Trigger

AidoEirE wrote: »

Funny how you left out, being called a nonce and a peado, because thats a step to far but keep going. Im sure there is some smart ass insults you missed in that post

It wasn’t a sarcastic post

AidoEirE

Moist Bread wrote: »

I don't understand your angle. I just was talking about my experiences and the vitriol that was posted my way. I have heard they have said much worse to Mick and others. I condemn any personal attack like nonce and peado. There should be no place for that in a forum of any kind.

What are playing the violin out for so?

jayo26

AidoEirE wrote: »

Funny how you left out, being called a nonce and a peado, because thats a step to far but keep going. Im sure there is some smart ass insults you missed in that post

No he was actually been serious.

Moist Bread

AidoEirE wrote: »

This is about respect to people, be a damn sight straight any one of either thread calling names like that face to face outside of a keyboard setting.
Grow the **** up

I couldn't agree more! I don't resort to calling people names. I NEVER will either.

AidoEirE

Well moist thats my bad

Moist Bread

AidoEirE wrote: »

What are playing the violin out for so?

I have been attacked by some posters on here too. Mocked and called a troll and mentally ill. Why are you being so aggressive towards me?

Edit: Ah, I see this is a case of crossed wires.

Tom.D.BJJ

Nixonbot wrote: »

I actually don't know the rule you're referring to

So no rule on thread title length in SF?

Perhaps the mods might explain

Trigger

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

So no rule on thread title length in SF?

Perhaps the mods might explain

Oh yeah, Nixonbot to add to my previous post about the thread titles, another reason given was that there can only be a certain amount of characters in a thread title, :pac: in fairness I thought that was just an excuse to move the discussion away from it..

Liam O

RoboKlopp wrote: »

There's clearly very obvious trolls in the forum. I'm sure the mods know them too, and the Cmods.

Why not get rid of them?

Think similar used to happen a good bit more. There was a lot more enforcement back then which I wasn't overly a fan of but at the same time there was a bit more transparency with what was going on. I guess now it's the opposite, more done a bit later as a more retrospective approach so hard to know if posts have been actioned or serial abusers are being punished which can create a bit of a division.

Ultimately to get rid of people now will cause problems because everyone will have their friends on the forum and the classification of trolling will differ from person to person. Look at M!CK as someone who's been mentioned in this thread. Clearly that's who a lot of Liverpool fans would regard as trolling going off this and other threads. However as a more objective onlooker, despite being a United fan, Isee what he does and it is fairly straightforward views that he has consistently applied. Never goes in looking for a rise with views that he's never held before. LuckyLloyd makes similar, albeit less regular posts about hating United and they are treated as what they are i.e. his view and there's no baiting him into threads or calling him out at every opportunity. Rightly so too I must add as I think Lloyd is one of the best posters on here.

I'd welcome that straightforward style over the ones you know are just there to push the charter to the limit and bait others into yellows which there is a group of who have been doing for years.

So where do you draw the line? Mob mentality won on Saturday and if you enforce the getting rid of posters because people don't like them rather than the actions they have taken you'll have the sound lads from Twitter or wherever else discussing how to get people banned again.

robarmstrong

I've been lurking long time in Soccer but very rarely post so to be honest I don't really feel my opinion has much weight or meaning here as it seems everyone here has been much more of a contributor than me.

I'm a staunch United fan (just to get it out the way) but the level of vitriol from both sides has become childish and whilst I don't agree with the whole debacle about Mac being demodded (the way it was done to be precise) unfortunately it's been done so that's out of the basket.

I think going forward any posters caught goading in a post-match thread after a team's negative result should be given an immediate red/temporary forum ban, because it seems to be that everyone knows what happens after the goading post pops in, it just becomes a massive snowballing effect and a nightmare for mods.

It's ridiculous that the overwhelming majority here are grown men (I think) and some choose to carry on like this, Mick did not deserve to be called any of the names he was called and the fact that people just lost the plot and thought that was an okay thing to do they should all be given cards and a bollocking or a back-dated ban.

There's a difference between goading and genuine constructive criticism, I know United play shite football but I'm not going to take offence at that, why would I take offence at something someone has to say about my favourite football team? I'm not it's head-coach, I'm not it's chairman, spokesperson, etc so for me to get all riled up is a bit of a joke tbh, I'm 25 but think I'm kinda long in the tooth to be getting worked over silly comments like that.

I've a few ideas on reworking the charter and how it could be better, I'll write them down in a bit and PM some of the mods of the soccer forum to see if they're any use, just need to reword and rephrase a few bits and bobs.