Irish birth rate continues to fall

Tigerandahalf

I was going to post this elsewhere but you need to get access to certain forums.

I see rte are reporting that the birth rate has declined again - since 2007 there has been a fall from 16.1 births to 12.9 per 1,000 of population. That is close to a 20% decline.

The government had predicted I think a 1 million increase in population by 2040 so one wonders will this decline continue.

With the accommodation crisis and women having children later plus the cost of childcare you get the feeling this decline will continue.

With abortion now legal here too (rightly so) you would think this would also drag the figure lower into the future.

I guess we are still pretty good. I think Portugal and Spain are somewhere around 8/9 per 1,000.

[Url]Birth rate continues to fall as maternal age rises
http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0530/967066-birthrate/[/url]

Atlantic Dawn

2 words, housing crisis.

2 more words, pensions timebomb.

Lollipops23

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

2 more words, pensions timebomb.

Which is why most people I know have gotten themselves a private pension.

Hector Savage

I find that extremely hard to believe, all I see is couples with 3,4,5,6 + kids every time I go home.

Dr Brown

Add in abortion on demand and you will see our birth rate fall by another 20%.

silverharp

Hector Savage wrote: »

I find that extremely hard to believe, all I see is couples with 3,4,5,6 + kids every time I go home.

what dodgy part of the country do you live in? :pac: , also less people are having kids and more people are waiting longer so you wouldn't notice that

amcalester

Dr Brown wrote: »

Add in abortion on demand and you will see our birth rate fall by another 20%.

No need to worry, the impending influx of Middle Easterns, Africans and Asians will make up the shortfall.

Hector Savage

My 2000th post is disappointing ...

Pixel Eater

When calculating for the future you would also have to factor in inward migration, both Irish and foreign. With the world as a whole over populated maybe a smaller increasing population isn't such a bad thing; we have a potentially a massive diaspora to delve into if needs be.

But if the Government was concerned then they could make having children more attractive. While child benefit is generous, childcare seems to be prohibitively expensive.

Donald Trump

Irish ladies, stop stuffing the faces and hit the gym


Too many good looking fordeners are stealing your mickey-wielders

Skatedude

People used to work, then buy a home and settle down to have a family. Now they are struggling to find anywhere they can afford to live, never mind the expense of raising a family.

Donald Trump

Hector Savage wrote: »

My 2000th post is disappointing ...

Start as you mean to continue as they do say

facehugger99

Hector Savage wrote: »

I find that extremely hard to believe, all I see is couples with 3,4,5,6 + kids every time I go home.

As far as I understand, they used more than your personal experiences when compiling the statistics.

Roger_007

The birth rate is falling in most countries in the 'developed' world. Most women are delaying having their first child until they are well into their thirties. I don't think that it's a question of affordability. If it was then poorer people would have less children. But it's actually the other way round.
It seems that the more affluent a society becomes, the less children they have.

Pyr0

Having kids is the last thing on my mind, it's hard enough to find somewhere reasonably priced to live let alone bringing 1, 2 or even 3 kids into the equation.

Tigerandahalf

Interesting article on Portugal - granted it is 4 years ago. It seems their problems were already in train before the recession.

Housing and secure jobs are definitely a big issue. But I guess a lot of women no longer want to be tied down by a big family which is understandable.

You see a lot of well to do kids in Spain who are an only child. Both parents tend to be in well paid time demanding positions.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/02/portugal-low-birthrate-eurozone-crisis

theyoungchap

There is a fall in the number of children had by educated, working people paying their way.

This is not the case across our society.......

Harry Palmr

Property crisis will have an effect here, the longer you're in a pokey rental and paying through your nose for it the longer you'll put off having children and so in a panic you have a late age single child rather than the two or three of more harmonious circumstances.

Fr_Dougal

Pensions time-bomb, yeah that’s something that’s trotted out quite often. Would be interesting to see where all these kids are going to actually find jobs, automation will do away with a hell of a lot of their jobs.

Unemployed people don’t contribute to pensions, they’ll be a drain on society.

H3llR4iser

This is a normal, verifiable trend not just in Ireland, but anywhere in the developed and developing world: as education, health and economic conditions improve, people have less children.

http://www.unesco.org/education/tlsf/mods/theme_c/popups/mod13t01s005.html

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Birth rate 12.9
Death rate 6.4

We're doing fine.

chrissb8

Because there's so much to consider before having a kid. A good depth of savings after buying a house for one. Then there's getting in a position in a career in which you're making enough money to do this kind of saving. There is not much incentive to have a child when one has to worry about themselves first.

Alun

H3llR4iser wrote: »

This is a normal, verifiable trend not just in Ireland, but anywhere in the developed and developing world: as education, health and economic conditions improve, people have less fewer children.

http://www.unesco.org/education/tlsf/mods/theme_c/popups/mod13t01s005.html

FYP

Bob Harris

Chanel Few Coat wrote: »

Birth rate 12.9
Death rate 6.4

We're doing fine.

I thought the death rate would be 100%.

wakka12

Hector Savage wrote: »

I find that extremely hard to believe, all I see is couples with 3,4,5,6 + kids every time I go home.

Well where do you live? I see so few families with over 4+ children that youd remark on it when you see it. The majority of couples I know has 2 children and a good proportion have 3, but plenty of people unmarried or just dont want children too that I know and then its very easy to see how that average of 2-3 per couple who have children is brought down to well below 2.0 (replacement level)average by the couples who dont have kids.

Atlantic Dawn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

2 words, housing crisis.

2 more words, pensions timebomb.

1 more word: childcare.

eeguy

Men and women in get married later.
They buy houses later
They start families later.
Family sizes are smaller.
Contraception use is near universal.
Online porn use has skyrocketed.
Teen pregnancies have dropped.
Erecipe dysfunction in men is also through the roof.

Victor

Population is still growing strongly.

TheValeyard

kneemos

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Pensions time-bomb, yeah that’s something that’s trotted out quite often. Would be interesting to see where all these kids are going to actually find jobs, automation will do away with a hell of a lot of their jobs.

Unemployed people don’t contribute to pensions, they’ll be a drain on society.

Hearing about technology doing away with jobs for thirty years,yet here we are with full employment.

Fighting Tao

Dr Brown wrote: »

Add in abortion on demand and you will see our birth rate fall by another 20%.

Doubt it as it's already on demand for the price of a cheap flight to the UK, and since it's abortion with restriction. That bit tougher with laws than the UK but carry on doctor.

McGrath5

Dr Brown wrote: »

Add in abortion on demand and you will see our birth rate fall by another 20%.

That didn't take long :rolleyes:

Fighting Tao

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

2 words, housing crisis.

2 more words, pensions timebomb.

Also lot of people out of jobs over the last number of years only getting back on their feet now and so couldn't afford to have kids.

Sleeper12

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

2 more words, pensions timebomb.

We might have to invite young non Irish people into the country in years to come. Australia did the same in the 90s as their pop was aging

Taytoland

When more Muslims arrive in the Republic you will notice it go up.

Fighting Tao

Taytoland wrote: »

When more Muslims arrive in the Republic you will notice it go up.

What will the Muslim people do....Oh, I forgot that you want the Republic of Ireland to be some kind of "white" and "purified society". They would taint the nation.

Taytoland

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

When more Muslims arrive in the Republic you will notice it go up.

What will the Muslim people do....Oh, I forgot that you want the Republic of Ireland to be some kind of "white" and "purified society". They would taint the nation.

Some people might, not me. Some will see the abortion argument as a way of getting to that position.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Bob Harris wrote: »

I thought the death rate would be 100%.

And 12.9% makes sense for births, by your logic???

Who mentioned percentages anyway?

McMurphy

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Which is why most people I know have gotten themselves a private pension.

So long as they're not raided again by any future government, they should be fine.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Pensions time-bomb, yeah that’s something that’s trotted out quite often. Would be interesting to see where all these kids are going to actually find jobs, automation will do away with a hell of a lot of their jobs.

Unemployed people don’t contribute to pensions, they’ll be a drain on society.

You do realise if most jobs are done away with it means there will be fewer menial jobs to do. So as a population we get more done for less effort. This is a good thing.

200 years ago it took an entire family to grow just about enough food to try feed themselves. Now a handful of farmers can grow enough food in Ireland to feed 10's of millions. Same goes for making cars, tv's, carpets, glasses. Even apps and that kind of Software!

The only way automation will make people 'obsolete' is by the extremely rich trying to force it be that way.

Dr Brown

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Doubt it as it's already on demand for the price of a cheap flight to the UK, and since it's abortion with restriction. That bit tougher with laws than the UK but carry on doctor.

<snip>

Mod note:Take it to the Exit Poll thread, please!

BTJ

OneEightSeven

amcalester wrote: »

No need to worry, the impending influx of Middle Easterns, Africans and Asians will make up the shortfall.

With only 40% of black Africans being employed in Ireland and Muslims making up 15% of the UK's prison population, the only shortfall they will make up for is our declining crime statistics and unemployment rates.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Dr Brown wrote: »

<snip>.

OneEightSeven wrote: »

With only 40% of black Africans being employed in Ireland and Muslims making up 15% of the UK's prison population, the only shortfall they will make up for is our declining crime statistics and unemployment rates.

Both these points seem really thicker than pig sh1t. :)

Jimmy Dags

Three kids minimum to be successful for rock and roll lifestyle.

Bob Harris

OneEightSeven wrote: »

With only 40% of black Africans being employed in Ireland and Muslims making up 15% of the UK's prison population, the only shortfall they will make up for is our declining crime statistics and unemployment rates.

But with all that spare time won't the black africans have lots of time to make baybeees?

Muckie

A lot of the Africans (Nigerians) seem to have large families(5 kids plus), so for this demographic there is a population increase.
(that and the sale of japanese people carries, much to the joy of car dealers throughout the country :P)

worded

Pixel Eater wrote: »

When calculating for the future you would also have to factor in inward migration, both Irish and foreign. With the world as a whole over populated maybe a smaller increasing population isn't such a bad thing; we have a potentially a massive diaspora to delve into if needs be.

But if the Government was concerned then they could make having children more attractive. While child benefit is generous, childcare seems to be prohibitively expensive.

It’s financial castration for anyone with a job. It’s an extra mortgage per kid.

Hector Savage

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

You do realise if most jobs are done away with it means there will be fewer menial jobs to do. So as a population we get more done for less effort. This is a good thing.

200 years ago it took an entire family to grow just about enough food to try feed themselves. Now a handful of farmers can grow enough food in Ireland to feed 10's of millions. Same goes for making cars, tv's, carpets, glasses. Even apps and that kind of Software!

The only way automation will make people 'obsolete' is by the extremely rich trying to force it be that way.

Yet they will want to force it that way .... when money is to be made on the backs of the "plebians" you can bet your ass it will happen - look at it right now, look at the hellhole Amazon is ...

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mod note: Folks, any abortion referendum references WILL be deleted.


Take it to the Exit poll thread.


Buford T. Justice

Electric Sheep

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

2 words, housing crisis.

2 more words, pensions timebomb.

The more important two words, parenting sucks.

That's why people choose not to do it.

4068ac1elhodqr

2 more words: Robots, Automation.

The 4IR will also lower the birth rates in the developed world. In years gone by, folks usually had a bunch of young ones to carry on the farm, business, or for other social reasons.
But with Robots (automation/ai/iot/ml) becoming super-intelligent soon, and more physically capable than us mere humans, having more than 1 or 2 won't be as desireable.