Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

enoughtaken

hoosier_daddy wrote: »

I agree, but I know a few of them personally and I know they have plans for the states since two weeks ago

And what does that say about man management. Absolute shambles today. No game plan. It’s obvious to me anyway that there’s a serious breakdown between players and management.

Stopitwillya

jive wrote: »

It’s not so much a management problem, the team is severely lacking forwards. For all the hype about some of them coming through, blaming McGrath for being defensive and now Fanning for lack of game plan, the front 6 have never stepped up to the plate with any consistency.
.

And when did we last play a forward 6. Under Michael Ryan and before that under Justin. Very hard for a forward line to play as a unit when they are constantly outnumbered by defenders.
Even worse today when 3 similar players started in the half forward line, Mahony, Pendergast and Kearney and they spend most of the game going into midfield and the backs looking for short passes. Then when they get that pass they run with it and are usually dispossed.

Dammo

Three matches, no goals - very poor. The first touch all over the field is shocking. Is he different than he comes across on tv but Fanning doesn’t look very inspirational or animated on the line.

Deisegodeo

Absolutely shocking performance, but unfortunately not exactly unexpected given what has gone on the last few weeks.

Possibly the worst display I've ever witnessed from a Waterford team. No urgency, work rate or effort which is unforgivable really.

Fanning has clearly lost the dressing room but the players have a lot to answer for too.

An absolute shambles this team has turned into. Absolutely gutted to see how this season has panned out

Deskjockey

Desperate
Shambolic
Embarrassing

This team has seriously lost their way. The player's touch is abysmal.

Road-Hog

Deskjockey wrote: »

Desperate
Shambolic
Embarrassing

This team has seriously lost their way. The player's touch is abysmal.

How can players ‘touch’ go in reverse. Most of these guys played in an all Ireland final 21 months ago.......! Reasonable league apart form game v Dublin and final so signs were good enough coming into May 12th but wheels have fallen so far off the wagon since that it is farcical.......short passes into groups of players in tight spaces being dispossessed with ease.....horsed our of it physically.......messing up the basics etc. it’s just as well we don’t have to play Carlow in a relegation play off as it would be joe mcdonagh cup for us fairly quickly.......faced with possible defeats to Kerry etc.

SW1985

Fanning did Limericks job for them. Set up with no physical presence in attack and tried to play through congested areas. It couldn't have been made easier for them.

thesaturdayman

Blame the mgmt, blame the players. The buck stops with the county board & until there is seismic change there this is our lot and worse.

Remember they put in fanning.

The players you speak of are former all stars & young hurler / hurler or year or dual all Ireland winners at minor & u21.

fanning has lost the dressing room & once that happens there is no coming back from it. Time to go & bring paddy joe & pat flynn with you.

mickmackmcgoo

Fair play to Prunty, Lyons and Jack they gave it their all today . Unfortunately Kevin Moran hasn't got it any more, owes us nothing. It hasn't worked out this year for players or management. Fanning will have to go and some players have a lot of soul searching to do. Lacked fitness, sharpness and physicality. No obvious game plan or leadership . Even in the warm up fanning was walking around on his own . Fresh start needed next year

reni10

County board and all connected need to go now and don't let the door hit them on the way out either!

That was a disgrace today.

Road-Hog

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Blame the mgmt, blame the players. The buck stops with the county board & until there is seismic change there this is our lot and worse.

Remember they put in fanning.

The players you speak of are former all stars & young hurler / hurler or year or dual all Ireland winners at minor & u21.

fanning has lost the dressing room & once that happens there is no coming back from it. Time to go & bring paddy joe & pat flynn with you.

Probably correct there. Another noticeable feature was the noise Limerick fans were making.....it was like they were the home team. The ‘Waterford fans’ and public in general have no belief in the side either.......the second limerick goal was just embarrassing.

PTH2009

could be wrong here but if Kerry win the Joe Mcdonagh cup than they will face us in a Relagation/promotion playoff for a place in the 2020 Munster championship

horrible 2nd half with Walsh Park like a morgue. This home advantage bollocks was truly vanised.

We scraped into a league final due to Galway ****ing up (there draw vs Carlow cost them a bit). We beat Offaly, Laois and Carlow in mostly horrible conditions. Galway twice who could of beat us and Clare didnt try. It was a nice day out in Croke Park for the league final but the wheels fell off that day

Fanning wont walk away imo but players will. Were in serious trouble and something which we didnt imagine after winning the 2013 Minor and 2016 under 21

blueflame

You can blame management and you will not hear any defence from me but seriously the attitude of majority of players today was an absolute disgrace . With exception of Callum Lyons, Conor Prunty and Jack Prendergast who gave it everything the rest need to have a serious look at themselves - have they no pride in themselves or their county I don’t care who was in charge . They ask supporters to attend games, functions and put their hands in their pockets and then just decide the could not be arsed - some thing is badly badly wrong - absolutely disgusted

phobia2011

I can understand the anger towards the county board sometimes, but how in gods name can you hold them accountable for that horror show. The simple things were brutal today, ball just bouncing off each other. We seemed outnumbered in the stands but hard to gauge when we had nothing to shout about other than the first 4 mins. Gutted is an understatement and there isn't a single positive that can be taken from it.

spideyman92

PTH2009 wrote: »

could be wrong here but if Kerry win the Joe Mcdonagh cup than they will face us in a Relagation/promotion playoff for a place in the 2020 Munster championship

horrible 2nd half with Walsh Park like a morgue. This home advantage bollocks was truly vanised.

We scraped into a league final due to Galway ****ing up (there draw vs Carlow cost them a bit). We beat Offaly, Laois and Carlow in mostly horrible conditions. Galway twice who could of beat us and Clare didnt try. It was a nice day out in Croke Park for the league final but the wheels fell off that day

Fanning wont walk away imo but players will. Were in serious trouble and something which we didnt imagine after winning the 2013 Minor and 2016 under 21

I'd agree with ya about the league. People got carried away with results against poor opposition. The weather in the first Galway league game was so bad it was hard to judge anything from and then Galway slipped up in the semi final having lead for most of the game. Even in those big wins against Carlow etc. I thought at the time that there was some patchy performances(as well as weird management decisions) that would be punished by better opposition which seems to be the case now.

TheScoringGoal

Folks, was James Murray there today? I didn't see him but maybe he was up in the stand?

5948ai

What can you say after that today... Still speechless

KevIRL

The worst thing about today is that it isn't even a surprise that it happened like that.

cul beag

Club Deise coming out telling us to go easy on them? You must be joking me! We are the ones putting our hands in our pockets year in year out, supporting fundraising and traveling all over to support them. The players do alright out of being intercounty players both financially, leisurely and work wise. It’s not too much to ask to at least represent the jersey with a bit of pride and not make themselves an embarrassment to both themselves and the supporters. To show no f###king heart or intensity which are basic requirements is nothing short of a disgrace. HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME.

PTH2009

Can see now why Fanning was always in the backroom team and not number 1

_blaaz

cul beag wrote: »

Club Deise coming out telling us to go easy on them? You must be joking me! We are the ones putting our hands in our pockets year in year out, supporting fundraising and traveling all over to support them. The players do alright out of being intercounty players both financially, leisurely and work wise. It’s not too much to ask to at least represent the jersey with a bit of pride and not make themselves an embarrassment to both themselves and the supporters. To show no f###king heart or intensity which are basic requirements is nothing short of a disgrace. HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME.

Spent 60K on a training camp.to portugal (while underage football etc left to rot)



Tbh i cant think any reason to justify spending yet more money going to cork next sat night tbh

SW1985

PTH2009 wrote: »

could be wrong here but if Kerry win the Joe Mcdonagh cup than they will face us in a Relagation/promotion playoff for a place in the 2020 Munster championship

horrible 2nd half with Walsh Park like a morgue. This home advantage bollocks was truly vanised.

We scraped into a league final due to Galway ****ing up (there draw vs Carlow cost them a bit). We beat Offaly, Laois and Carlow in mostly horrible conditions. Galway twice who could of beat us and Clare didnt try. It was a nice day out in Croke Park for the league final but the wheels fell off that day

Fanning wont walk away imo but players will. Were in serious trouble and something which we didnt imagine after winning the 2013 Minor and 2016 under 21

You think he'd stay? Jesus. That's worrying

carter10

Have been going to waterford hurling matches since 1983 and I've seen some dark days and this ranks right up there. Dismal.
Don't even know where to start. As others have said embarrassing. What is most hard to swallow is the lack of effort in the second half and how we just caved once they went 6 ahead.

Fanning has to go for a start. there is no way back from that for him but also the players need to have a long hard look at themselves.

The Galway game in the league in Walsh park was the last time we scored a goal from play. Tipp put up 30 points for the first time in their history against us last day and Limerick scored their joint highest championship score today- the last time they did that was against Kerry.

Shambolic.

thesaturdayman

The fanning interview after the match was poor. As inept as the performance on the pitch.

Deisegodeo

How in the name of God do we approach next Saturday evening down in Cork? Live on Sky Sports too. Another embarrassing showing in store is the only conclusion that can I can see.

Hard to see many travelling down to it and who would blame the supporters holding onto their hard earned money. We managed to get up for the dead rubber last year with Brick's last game and all that, cant see what the motivation will be next week.

JesusRef

The new Walsh Park? Scrap the idea, what we have will do is fine for what we need it for.

Use the money too Build a training centre (s) instead in sensible locations in the county.

Use the money to target primary Schools

Use the money to target secondary schools

Dont Stop

Terrible stuff. A new direction might be needed against Cork, altogether. Something needs to change in 6 days or more humiliation will follow.

Road-Hog

Score predictions v Cork next weekend. 5-31 to 2-8 like 1982 Munster final.......could be on the cards.....! Slight correction 1982 Munster final we scored 3-6.

BloodyBill

Road-Hog wrote: »

Probably correct there. Another noticeable feature was the noise Limerick fans were making.....it was like they were the home team. The ‘Waterford fans’ and public in general have no belief in the side either.......the second limerick goal was just embarrassing.

How did Moran who is a great defender and former All Star let the ball go past him into Hegarty for that goal. He should have covered Hegarty instead of going for that 40/60 ball. Next year is a new year. But there has to be a performance against Cork. They cant roll over like they did today. Why didn't they push up on Limerick? It's the only way to rattle them. This letting Limerick play it out is suicide because you wont lay a glove on them.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

I don’t know what to say after that. My ears are still ringing from the roars of the fantastic Limerick supporters who came and took over Walsh Park before their hurlers did the same.

What a miserable Waterford performance and no point naming players at this stage. We’re just not at the races and the blame has to lie with management. Yes the players are the ones who didn’t perform and they were embarrassing but it’s the managements job to get the best out of the team and clearly if hasn’t happened. I’m sure they did their best but unfortunately just not working out.

One thing that’s for certain is that we need to stop picking players on reputation and only pick players on form.

enoughtaken

Road-Hog wrote: »

Score predictions v Cork next weekend. 5-31 to 2-8 like 1982 Munster final.......could be on the cards.....! Slight correction 1982 Munster final we scored 3-6.

I was there and the following year in limerick where cork beat us 3-22 to 0-12. My brother threw his Waterford scarf and flag into the Shannon on the way out and has never been to a Waterford game since. True story 😂😂

Road-Hog

enoughtaken wrote: »

I was there and the following year in limerick where cork beat us 3-22 to 0-12. My brother threw his Waterford scarf and flag into the Shannon on the way out and has never been to a Waterford game since. True story 😂😂

Yes. Two finals and utterly annihilated in both.....’82 was sickening but to get a hiding the following year was almost worse despite the narrower margin. Difference in those days though we had an average team with a hand full of very players such as Galvin Mossie Walsh, pat mcgrath and Jim Greene.......fast forward to this crop who have all Ireland under age success. All Ireland final appearance etc and its probably worse to be getting beaten by cricket score twice within two weeks. Don’t know what future is but there is something fundamentally wrong.......can’t imagine what it will be like next year if fanning stays.......and I’m sure he will....support will be half what it is this year. Does this year vindicate ‘Mcgraths’ system....only one or two hidings in his tenure......Limerick today and to a less extent in league final just looked larger, fitter, better touch, tactics, etc. etc. typical waterford passage of play was a corner or half back to get a loose ball then attempt a ‘stick pass’ to a colleague surrounded by 2/3/4 limerick players......9 Times out of ten ball was turned over and a score for them materialized. Similar with puck outs. Soky was drilling low balls down the middle at speed nd higher risk of being intercepted.......:in first halt there Shanahan our ball winner and supposed target man hardly one any aerial ball.......The only conclusion to come to about Austin gleeson is that he is burned out lacks motivation or is carying some kind of injury......rant over.......

Minor match poor also........0-11 to 0-11. Was like a football match. Neither team apppeared as if they could deal with the windy conditions.

Rant over.

alta stare

JesusRef wrote: »

The new Walsh Park? Scrap the idea, what we have will do is fine for what we need it for.

Use the money too Build a training centre (s) instead in sensible locations in the county.

Use the money to target primary Schools

Use the money to target secondary schools

There is a fine centre out in Carriganore.

We badly need a decent ground. I think they are choosing the wrong option with Walsh Park.

No matter how good or bad we are we should always be looking at the schools. Teams stagnate if the youth set up isnt correct. I dont think our set up is regarding youth is the worst as we do have some good young hurlers. I think the issues lay with the CB and the **** show they have presided over for many years. Zero signs of ambitions to move forward.

Alot needs to change for Waterford to be successful. The current set up is proving to be detrimental to our progression. We have players who have the ability to be winning Munsters and AI, whether they have the heart and desire is another thing. Regardless of the management team there is no way we should be getting beat as we have done twice in this championship. It is embarrassing. Waterford use to be known for having the spirit and fight i dont see none of those two anymore. The start of the match today looked like we might of found those again but alas it was not to be.

We are consistently making excuses but im afraid we have run out of them now. We used to be the team the neutrals would like to see win, now we are the team no one wants to watch. Talk of puke hurling, dirty players, bitter players etc.....its feeding down to the supporters which is never a good sign and lets be honest sometime this thread can be testament to that.

A clear out from the top is required. Get someone in who cares, who wants to bring the good out of hurling in Waterford, East and West, a person who will bring Waterford to the levels they should be at.

Spatters

Lads/Lassies,
Everything we do in Waterford GAA is half arsed. Very little thought put into it because there is no forward thinking going on at any level in Co Board. Asleep at the wheel. Waterford haven’t won an All Ireland in 60 YEARS and no one has asked the question WHY???

A little bit about today’s game. We have team who are not
1. Playing as a team
2. Not trying hard enough
3. Taking no personal responsibility such as:
*Indiscipline- 2 sending off in last 2 games
*Players with Reputations going missing
*Missing Goal chances at vital stages
*Players diving, looking for frees or worse- walking off feigning injury. Where is the Leadership on the field??
But first port of call by players will be to blame the mgmt. Analyse their own performance first. How come the new players that came into the setup played well?? Namely Prendergast, Prunty, Lyons. There needs to be a clear out of players who think their too proud to wear the jersey.
With regards to the mgmt, the results will ultimately come back on them. But i have to say that the team didn’t really give them much chance to effect the game in any way by way if moves etc.. as they were never really in the game. Either Fanning gets in good people with him or he’ll be shown his P45.

Continuing on from my opening point, things are at an all time low and clibs need to start taking responsibility here. We have a co board who are inept with no forward thinking people on it and clubs are sending the same old same old to Co Board meetings with no progress being made or no ideas on how drive the thing forward or even bring it up to a level of that expected in other counties- half arsed!
Development squads are a disgrace- unqualified (& i dont care about what level coaching course levels attained) personnel driving the coaching and physical development of kids within the County for the last number- only punching in the time.
Solution:-
• Scrap Development squads and leave the kids with their clubs and friends where they will learn the basics. Stop making Gods out of these kids and handing them a Waterford jersey at such a young age. You have to earn that Jersey. The Good players at 14 are not necessarily the good players at 19/20. Allow for late developers
• Pump resources into Developing the Schools- Primary & Secondary like in Kk, Cork now and Tipp.
• Put in a proper Mgmt structure in place which is overseen by a committee which will include Former Intercounty players.
• Get in quality Coaches who are Capable and pay them well.
• Put in place a Training plan designed by experts in the Hurling, Physical areas- agree it, stick to it and after a period of time review it and update where necessary.
At the moment what we have is half arsed and the results reflect that. And don’t say that we won a Minor All Ireland and u21 All Ireland. Same bunch of players. We need successive teams competing for All Ireland’s to deem it a successful system. At the moment its Half Arsed!

Team Mgmt
My opinion here is get in Former players who have shown an interest in coaching teams to take over from u16 onwards. We had a situation a few yrs ago whereby Paul Flynn, Dave Bennett and Tom Feeney were keen to take over a team but were turned down because they wanted there own setup and not one that they would inherit. Imagine turning down these people, that experience and depriving those kids the opportunity to be coached by these men? Half Arsed
Thankfully that all changed when the ‘No Parents’ involved rule came and they are now with the u16 development squad.

Senior Mgmt
This year when the position became available, they interviewed some great candidates but were these people were told they’d have have a budget and if the spend exceeded that budget they would have to fundraise for the money. What other County does that??? Half Arsed.

We can blame mgmt, players etc. but the reality is that results and the state of our Games (Hurling & Football) lie with the top brass who are drunk at the wheel. Time for the clubs to take out the breathalyzer and do the right thing- get young blood in to represent them at board level. People with fresh perspective and not afraid to spend the money while getting value for money for the basics:
• Coaches
•Proper Training Facitlities
• Resources

What we have is not working and is half arsed!

Stopitwillya

Wonder what Phil Fanning will make of things in Tuesdays News and Star.

Spatters

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Wonder what Phil Fanning will make of things in Tuesdays News and Star.

🙈🙈 not looking forward to that

PTH2009

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Wonder what Phil Fanning will make of things in Tuesdays News and Star.

Is that his dad or brother

914

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is that his dad or brother

Father

PTH2009

914 wrote: »

Father

Biased I'd say

**** me its frustrating tonight thinking over the whole season.

JesusRef

Prunty and Calum Lyons played so well til the end today.
In their 1st year in I feel bad for the lads.

Prunty played on the U21 team in 2016, although a great player, he was not one of the main men of the side....

How is he now out performing all those players in his 1st year.... Players with 5 years experience under their belt. It doesn't make sense

Ropaire

JesusRef wrote: »

Prunty and Calum Lyons played so well til the end today.
In their 1st year in I feel bad for the lads.

Prunty played on the U21 team in 2016, although a great player, he was not one of the main men of the side....

How is he now out performing all those players in his 1st year.... Players with 5 years experience under their belt. It doesn't make sense

He didn't spend 5 years in "the system" so the hurling hasn't been coached out of the lad yet.

SW1985

Ropaire wrote: »

He didn't spend 5 years in "the system" so the hurling hasn't been coached out of the lad yet.

Knew someone would find away to have a dig at McGrath. The obsession is embarrassing

Ropaire

SW1985 wrote: »

Knew someone would find away to have a dig at McGrath. The obsession is embarrassing

I like McGrath, sound man. Hated his tactics though and don't think anyone who played in those teams for years will suddenly be able to switch to something new in a few games.

Road-Hog

Ropaire wrote: »

I like McGrath, sound man. Hated his tactics though and don't think anyone who played in those teams for years will suddenly be able to switch to something new in a few games.

Yes. Think only option is to get Mcgrath back next season.

SW1985

Ropaire wrote: »

I like McGrath, sound man. Hated his tactics though and don't think anyone who played in those teams for years will suddenly be able to switch to something new in a few games.

I thought his tactics were perfect for the group of players he had to be totally honest. We always put up high scores and were tough to beat.

I think many fell for the "golden generation of forwards" meme. Derek actually saw them for what they were at the time and realised he couldn't build the team around them. Have the likes of Patrick Curran proved him wrong since?

Ropaire

I wouldn't have mcgrath back at all, he had his time and his tactics got sussed out in the end. Would probably go outside the county for a manager but not sure what front line candidate would want it! We've plenty we can fix internally from the east/west intermediate championships to schools to try and up the standard in general as plenty of people have said as well.

We may see this year out before getting to that. Hammered in 2 games and v poor in the third, wasn't expecting much from this year but that was abysmal really. And our home crowd was a fn joke, I blame all of ye for that lads, scandalous "support". Didn't hear one of ye.

One game left to salvage some bit of pride, but it's probably too late for even that now.

Ballooning ball down field all day was pointless, soky can do better with puckouts but there didn't seem to be any strategy for these so what can he do?

Full back line didn't do too bad other than lads losing their men for goals, but that can be fixed with coaching. Can't do much about it in a week but they're not too bad now.

De burca looked more comfortable at wing back when played there, gleeson may as well go center back as he can't affect a game from anywhere else so instead of trying to rob Peter to pay Paul and ending up owing them both a few quid just put him center back to hell. He's capable of scoring as much from there as from half forward and if there's lads inside he'll find them too.
It'd free Moran up to go back midfield with Barron, they've been solid there before and is pretty much still our best pairing there. If it's not firing would have Jack pender to come in there.

The forwards though, jesus where do you start to fix that shambles? Shame that the likes of Paudi Pender aren't on the panel, but they aren't so would go for half forward line of Maurice/Mahoney,/Shane Bennett and full forward line of Peter Hogan/Stephen Bennett/Tommy Ryan.
It doesn't matter who you name up there if we can't win primary possession though, we'd have to sort out our own puckouts for a start and stop standing off teams giving them space for theirs.

Don't think there's any fight left in these lads for the year looking at the way they played today though, it's got to be hard to pick themselves up in the space of a week to go again. I love all the posts with lads feeling sorry for themselves whingeing about the performances too. How do ye think the players and management feel around now?

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

I thought his tactics were perfect for the group of players he had to be totally honest. We always put up high scores and were tough to beat.

I think many fell for the "golden generation of forwards" meme. Derek actually saw them for what they were at the time and realised he couldn't build the team around them. Have the likes of Patrick Curran proved him wrong since?

His tactics were going nowhere though?


Tipp showed them up in a munster final....at a time when tipp werent a patch on.the way they are now...there also serious questions and allegations lie over a league semi final vs galway and his refusal to play or even try new players outside of his group of favourites (some of whom mysteriously retired at young enough age when he left?)



Lets not kid ourself here

Gavlor

Gavlor wrote: »

Can people stop banging on about the golden generation now?

A golden generation doesn’t go almost two years without winning a championship game regardless of the management. 7 defeats on the spin and counting

0-8 and counting. Depressing stuff. I read earlier that we’re 3 wins from 19 Munster games. I reckon we had a better win rate in the 80s!

SW1985

_blaaz wrote: »

His tactics were going nowhere though?


Tipp showed them up in a munster final....at a time when tipp werent a patch on.the way they are now...there also serious questions and allegations lie over a league semi final vs galway and his refusal to play or even try new players outside of his group of favourites (some of whom mysteriously retired at young enough age when he left?)



Lets not kid ourself here

Every manager will have bad days. They were rarely repeated and we nearly won the all Ireland that year.

What serious allegations????

Ropaire

SW1985 wrote: »

I thought his tactics were perfect for the group of players he had to be totally honest. We always put up high scores and were tough to beat.

I think many fell for the "golden generation of forwards" meme. Derek actually saw them for what they were at the time and realised he couldn't build the team around them. Have the likes of Patrick Curran proved him wrong since?

Have we played any decent hurling since? Defenders skyed balls out of defence in Derek's time in charge with no one under it to win it. They still sky the ball down on top of small forwards giving them no chance to win it, it's like it's muscle memory at this stage and it'll take a bit of coaching to get it out of them, coaching it would appear fanning hasn't been able to give. Slapping ball straight up the line is bread and butter to defenders and gives the forward no hope of winning it, which seems to be the default plan. There's plenty to be gotten from those lads with the right supply.